History Question About U.S. Tasking

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Does anyone recall when U.S. contests (especially nationals) evolved from "announce the task at the morning pilots' meeting and fly it no matter what" to the more enlightened "Task A and B (and C and D...) and pick one--or define another--on the grid or even in the air"? I can't recall whether this is something Charlie Spratt introduced when he started CDing or if predated him.

Chip Bearden
JB

[Michael Opitz]

At 22:42 16 October 2019, wrote:
>Does anyone recall when U.S. contests (especially nationals) evolved
from
>"=
>announce the task at the morning pilots' meeting and fly it no matter
>what"=
> to the more enlightened "Task A and B (and C and D...) and pick one-
-or
>de=
>fine another--on the grid or even in the air"? I can't recall whether
this
>=
>is something Charlie Spratt introduced when he started CDing or if
>predated=
> him.
>
>Chip Bearden
>JB
>

IIRC, it started before Charlie became a CD.

RO

[[email protected]]

If memory serves me, it was in the late 1990’s, I remember a contestant at Uvalde telling me, “we better put a stop to this, right now�. The real death of “call it in the morning and never change� was Tonopah where contestants were forced to fly through 2 thunderstorms that were obvious before the gate was opened. I have absolutely no problem with changing a bad task and shamelessly chase the Cu’s, as Charlie would often say (and do).
JJ

[[email protected]]

I can go for having an alternate task or two called up before launching that a cd can change to, but not a call it on the fly/in the air deal.

The entire race scene has been so dumbed down guys don’t even know how to scratch or land out anymore, We wonder why we score so miserably in international competition where the cd call very challenging tasks. Heres one of the main reasons.

Besides, the old style tasking where landouts were common, made for great stories and memories lol.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 5:57:57 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I can go for having an alternate task or two called up before launching that a cd can change to, but not a call it on the fly/in the air deal.
>
> The entire race scene has been so dumbed down guys don’t even know how to scratch or land out anymore, We wonder why we score so miserably in international competition where the cd call very challenging tasks. Heres one of the main reasons.
>
> Besides, the old style tasking where landouts were common, made for great stories and memories lol.

Yep- lots of great stories like the day in Hobbs when the Judge sent us on the task he selected at breakfast and before the start we could see the line of storms that would land the entire fleet out on the second leg.
And- only one trailer washed away crossing a creek.
Them sure was the good old days.
LOL
UH

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 4:43:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Does anyone recall when U.S. contests (especially nationals) evolved from "announce the task at the morning pilots' meeting and fly it no matter what" to the more enlightened "Task A and B (and C and D...) and pick one--or define another--on the grid or even in the air"? I can't recall whether this is something Charlie Spratt introduced when he started CDing or if predated him.
>
> Chip Bearden
> JB

I was never in favor of the POST tasking - and never in favor of Charlie being
a CD - he was great on the start and finish gates but not as a CD - I recall
Charlie saying publicly in a pilot's meeting "...today will be POST task -
to give the good guys a chance..." - it is well known that in those days the
POST task had 3 times the effect on the score sheet versus the Speed Task -
so if his favorite guys were down on the score sheet he would call POST -
to give the good guys (his favorite guys) a chance - to move up the score sheet - if his favorites were on the top of the score sheet he called Speed Tasks - total BS and not a level playing field - and primarily why I stopped
flying contests - so instead I went for 16 years to Bitterwasser, Namibia and
have flown 60 flights over 1000 km there -
Ralph "Woody" Woodward
WU

[[email protected]]

Yep separate the men from the boys. There used to be more contest flying than having the best machine n following the computer. Them good ole days tested a whole different skill set including efficient crewing.

[[email protected]]

It might be worthwhile to remember where, “call it at 8AM and don’t change it�, tasking got started? Back when turn-point spotters were sent out to that days turn-points as soon as the task was set. Couldn’t change it because the spotters would be at the wrong turn-points. Cameras and now GPS scoring make things more flexible and changeable, got nothing to do with “real� racing!
Same is true for the finish line, the visual gate was the only way to precisely measure the finish time. GPS makes low, fast and more unsafe, finish lines no longer necessary, got nothing to do with “real� racing!
Flame suit on,
JJ

[gkemp]

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 5:42:06 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> It might be worthwhile to remember where, “call it at 8AM and don’t change it�, tasking got started? Back when turn-point spotters were sent out to that days turn-points as soon as the task was set. Couldn’t change it because the spotters would be at the wrong turn-points. Cameras and now GPS scoring make things more flexible and changeable, got nothing to do with “real� racing!
> Same is true for the finish line, the visual gate was the only way to precisely measure the finish time. GPS makes low, fast and more unsafe, finish lines no longer necessary, got nothing to do with “real� racing!
> Flame suit on,
> JJ

Good reminder John, some don't know the history of how all this started.

NK

[CindyB[_2_]]

We are some old goats....I feel like I entered soaring on the cusp of technochange. I am glad to have seen both styles. I was a puppy then.
JJ, Gary, Al, Sterling, Danny, Ross... all cast long shadows.

[[email protected]]

I only flew one contest with the ground panels and TP crews. Then radical new technology arrived in the form of Instamatic cameras!

Does anyone recall when:

Designated Launch became common? Soaring mag has several mentions of it going live in 1977 but was it optional at first?

When we stopped using the takeoff time board with those hooks, pesky tags, and rubber bands to keep them from blowing away?

No starts before 15 minutes after the last launch became the rule? When Designated Launch was introduced, the gate still opened with the first takeoff but there was talk almost immediately about changing it. I recall a day as late as 1982 where a bunch of the early launches escaped a storm at the Elmira 15M Nats while much of the field was still on the launch grid. Poetic justice was that the early starters glided out into a dead sky and the later launches were the only ones to get away.

Feeling old.

Chip Bearden
JB

[[email protected]]

Hi Cindy,
I remember when you, your sister and Doug were the SSA, back when Hq was in LA! Thanks for your service and for a lifetime dedication to soaring!
I turned 85 in August, but I’m not throwing in the towel yet, still get a surge when going over the hill and there’s 2 guys in our club that are older than me! Having trouble reading the numbers on my SN-10, so I made all the important stuff double size on my custom page, like altitude + -, time remaining, time to finish what I have dialed in, etc.
Bet I’m the only guy on ras with 50 hours in the B-29!
Feeling older than dirt,
JJ

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:47:46 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Hi Cindy,
> I remember when you, your sister and Doug were the SSA, back when Hq was in LA! Thanks for your service and for a lifetime dedication to soaring!
> I turned 85 in August, but I’m not throwing in the towel yet, still get a surge when going over the hill and there’s 2 guys in our club that are older than me! Having trouble reading the numbers on my SN-10, so I made all the important stuff double size on my custom page, like altitude + -, time remaining, time to finish what I have dialed in, etc.
> Bet I’m the only guy on ras with 50 hours in the B-29!
> Feeling older than dirt,
> JJ

Ralph Woodward >

11:53 AM (0 minutes ago)

to rec.aviation.soaring
Hi JJ, I just turned 84 in June - keep blazing the trail - I am right behind you -
so far you have blazed a great path - thanks -
WU

[Roy B.]

As I recall, the years following the 1973 gasoline crisis resulted in major changes to contest tasking which were intended to result in higher percentages of the field finishing the task. Before that, crews would go out on course, find a high spot to set up the radio antenna, and wait for instructions from their pilot. That never happened much again after 1974 or so.
ROY

[Dan Marotta]

Youse guys inspire me!Â* At a mere 71, I see that I've got more than a
few more seasons left!

On 10/20/2019 11:55 AM, wrote:
> On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 11:47:46 AM UTC-6, wrote:
>> Hi Cindy,
>> I remember when you, your sister and Doug were the SSA, back when Hq was in LA! Thanks for your service and for a lifetime dedication to soaring!
>> I turned 85 in August, but I’m not throwing in the towel yet, still get a surge when going over the hill and there’s 2 guys in our club that are older than me! Having trouble reading the numbers on my SN-10, so I made all the important stuff double size on my custom page, like altitude + -, time remaining, time to finish what I have dialed in, etc.
>> Bet I’m the only guy on ras with 50 hours in the B-29!
>> Feeling older than dirt,
>> JJ
> Ralph Woodward >
>
> 11:53 AM (0 minutes ago)
>
> to rec.aviation.soaring
> Hi JJ, I just turned 84 in June - keep blazing the trail - I am right behind you -
> so far you have blazed a great path - thanks -
> WU

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, October 20, 2019 at 8:55:36 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
> As I recall, the years following the 1973 gasoline crisis resulted in major changes to contest tasking which were intended to result in higher percentages of the field finishing the task. Before that, crews would go out on course, find a high spot to set up the radio antenna, and wait for instructions from their pilot. That never happened much again after 1974 or so.
> ROY

Yes. Actually, finding a high spot and waiting was a refinement. If you go back far enough, crews would often drive around trailing their pilot to be there in case of an early landing/relight (when those were allowed) and faster retrieves for distance tasks (that often ended way out in the boonies, when those were popular).

I also recall that sometime after that, a few guys started showing up without crews. I remember thinking "how inconsiderate; how can they do that?" at the time. This was before higher completion ratios, tow-out gear, self rigging equipment, easy-load water ballast systems, etc. In the past 15 years, I've had a crew with me only a couple of times. I still gulp before a big contest and try to make sure there are a few other crewless pilots I know well enough with whom I can enter into a mutual retrieval pact, recognizing that landouts aren't nearly so common today.

I think we should keep in mind in our zeal to prepare a handful of top pilots for the Worlds that anything that starts to nudge the completion ratio down, be it more aggressive tasking or greater use of assigned tasks in uncertain weather will almost certainly lead to lower attendance at contests. Given the declining figures for almost all classes, we can ill afford that.

I'd love to see our team perform better against the rest of the world and it's an admirable goal. I remember the sense of pride and satisfaction when A.J. Smith, George Moffat, and Doug Jacobs triumphed. I flew against all those guys and they were world champions! How cool! But if I have to bring a crew along, I won't be flying as many contests in the future. And I suspect I'm not the only one. I'm 68 so you might say that won't be an issue for too long. But reading JJ's posting inspires me to think I could still be doing this for many years, despite having no time in the B-29. :)

Chip Bearden
JB

[Roy B.]

Chip:
I agree with your comments and observations. But on the issue of crews we should also remember the importance of crewing as a learning experience for the younger pilots. There is no better introduction to competition soaring (and for that matter learning efficient XC soaring) than crewing for someone at a serious contest. I started gliding in '73 but didn't really get bitten by the bug until I crewed for Vic Peres' 604 at the '75 Open Class Nationals. That led to a lifelong infatuation with flying and racing big gliders. I still use a crew when I can - but I have sometimes shared a crew with other pilots which actually works pretty well too. But all of the crews have told me how much they learned going to the pilot's meetings, planning the task & start times, and debriefing the flight after. That's worth all the books you can buy.
ROY

[[email protected]]

Roy I can surely second your observation of the learning factor of crewing. I crewed for my bro at regionals and natuonals for four years. I picked up many good points. I didnot get to seriously race till just this last year (kids-work-divorce etc lol). The stuff I learned twenty years ago paid off big time this year.

I also go crewless much of the time, but when I have a crew I feel much more confident in stretching knowing my crew is gonna be there. This last summer having my son crew for me was a very imp part of my doing so well. We had a very high powered communication system as well as a homebrew tracking system utilizing 2meter amateur radio repeaters. This allowed me to take chances flying a very low performance machine, that I could not safely take if I was crewless.

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I'm not crewless by choice! My sister, Diane, drove over from Oxford, OH several days during the Std. Class Nats at Caesar Creek this summer and it was great. As you say, it makes me feel freer to push a little harder. Plus it's just more fun.

I was crewing with my family from about age 10 or 11 and made the transition to flying my first contest at age 17 much easier.

My wife and daughters crewed for me for many years. The last time was in 2010, when my daughter, Tina, rode out to Hobbs with me for the Std. Nats. The contest was a bust (rain) but it ranks high on my list of priceless experiences as a parent. She wrote her successful college Common App essay on rising to the challenge of running her first wing there. And she was a much more confident, mature young woman (16) when she came back from that contest, where she not only played a significant role on the launch crew but assisted when we had car problems on the way out and recruited more than one driver for our retrieve vehicle when I landed out. I even taught her how to drive--in the full-size van--on Hobb's amazing ramp in the rain and how to hook up and maneuver the trailer around the airport.

There are all kinds of good things about crewing--under the right circumstances. But--nearly every school was in already in session during the postponed Std./Sports Class Nats in August. The same was true for my last regional, at Fairfield, PA a week ago. I could afford to take 3 weeks of vacation to cover those but I don't expect many others to get excited about that. Crewing should be a nice option, not essentially mandatory if you're serious about competing.

So--I'll fly under whatever Rules the group thinks best. But if the end result is more landouts, I predict we'll lose a few pilots here and there who reminisce fondly about the old days but don't want to actually revisit them..

Chip Bearden
JB