FES Possibilty

[[email protected]]

Message to me from LZ:

I would like to inform you that we have a possibility to retrofit 2-3 ASW27/29 during this winter. We are willing to help with organizing and coordinating the joint transport and customs procedures connected to sending the fuselages to us and back.
The transportation would need to happen in a month the latest, to catch the next season, already flying with FES :)
I was wondering whether you are still interested in the retrofit and if you maybe would like to have more information (or maybe even be interested in sending the fuselage to us this winter)?
Thank you very much for your answer.
Kind regards,
Ana Bencak

LZ design, d.o.o.,
Brod 3D| Logatec | Slovenia

Tel.: +386 5 9948898

email: Ana Bencak

www.LZdesign.si
www.front-electric-sustainer.com

[[email protected]]

Does anyone know if the FES retro-fit results in the reduction of the fully forward position of the rudder pedals? Us tall pilots cannot fit if we cannot get the rudder pedals all the way forward.

Thanks,
Tony

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 2:46:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Does anyone know if the FES retro-fit results in the reduction of the fully forward position of the rudder pedals? Us tall pilots cannot fit if we cannot get the rudder pedals all the way forward.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony

My recollection is that it does slightly reduce forward Adjustment, but not sure how much.
UH

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 10/17/2019 12:29 PM:
> On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 2:46:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>> Does anyone know if the FES retro-fit results in the reduction of the fully forward position of the rudder pedals? Us tall pilots cannot fit if we cannot get the rudder pedals all the way forward.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tony
>
> My recollection is that it does slightly reduce forward Adjustment, but not sure how much.
> UH
>
And I suppose it might vary significantly from model to model, so best to ask
about the specific glider you are interested in.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:49:06 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> wrote on 10/17/2019 12:29 PM:
> > On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 2:46:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >> Does anyone know if the FES retro-fit results in the reduction of the fully forward position of the rudder pedals? Us tall pilots cannot fit if we cannot get the rudder pedals all the way forward.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Tony
> >
> > My recollection is that it does slightly reduce forward Adjustment, but not sure how much.
> > UH
> >
> And I suppose it might vary significantly from model to model, so best to ask
> about the specific glider you are interested in.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

Topic presented as specific to 27 and 29.
UH

[Keith Schwab[_2_]]

Hello!
Did LZ provide an estimate for the cost of conversion? Curious if they have a preference which glider is better suited for this retrofit?
Thank you,
Keith

[[email protected]]

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 1:15:53 PM UTC-4, Keith Schwab wrote:
> Hello!
> Did LZ provide an estimate for the cost of conversion? Curious if they have a preference which glider is better suited for this retrofit?
> Thank you,
> Keith

There is no meaningful difference between a 27 and a 29 for this conversion, except 29, if only equipped with nose hook, would require adding a tow hook.
Last cost, a good while ago, was "around" 30,000 Euro.
Contact for more info is above.
UH

[Ramy[_2_]]

It is worth mentioning that the 27 and 29 are capable of self launching with FES.
See https://www.facebook.com/SeanTiff7T/videos/463134757352480/
So for about 30K you can convert your 27/29 to a pretty reliable electric motorglider.
I am considering this option but probably not this winter.
If any shipment from US (in particular west coast) to Europe is planned I would like to know about it.

Ramy

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 11:09:17 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
> It is worth mentioning that the 27 and 29 are capable of self launching with FES.
> See https://www.facebook.com/SeanTiff7T/videos/463134757352480/
> So for about 30K you can convert your 27/29 to a pretty reliable electric motorglider.
> I am considering this option but probably not this winter.
> If any shipment from US (in particular west coast) to Europe is planned I would like to know about it.
>
> Ramy

Ship shown is a special version with additional battery cells to provide higher voltage, thus more power. Also, I think it has a different prop. I would assume this is an option that can be ordered, but the question should be asked. Note that, for 27 and 29, it is only suitable for paved sites due to low prop clearance. One tail wheel bounce on a rough field and the prop is broken. I watched FP launch and it got out quite well.
FWIW
UH
UH

[[email protected]]

In Francois's it reduced the forward movement by 1 notch in the rudder pedal adjustment. I was lined up next to him for the grid at Bermuda high. It had a bigger prop than the sustainers and yes as UH said very important not to have the tail come up on take off due to about 4-6" of clearance with tail on the ground.

CH

[kinsell]

On 11/4/19 10:21 AM, wrote:
> On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 11:09:17 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
>> It is worth mentioning that the 27 and 29 are capable of self launching with FES.
>> See https://www.facebook.com/SeanTiff7T/videos/463134757352480/
>> So for about 30K you can convert your 27/29 to a pretty reliable electric motorglider.
>> I am considering this option but probably not this winter.
>> If any shipment from US (in particular west coast) to Europe is planned I would like to know about it.
>>
>> Ramy
>
> Ship shown is a special version with additional battery cells to provide higher voltage, thus more power. Also, I think it has a different prop. I would assume this is an option that can be ordered, but the question should be asked. Note that, for 27 and 29, it is only suitable for paved sites due to low prop clearance. One tail wheel bounce on a rough field and the prop is broken. I watched FP launch and it got out quite well.
> FWIW
> UH
> UH
>

Lack of meaningful prop clearance forces two-point takeoffs, as is
clearly visible in video. Not a real smart way of flying.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 12:08:37 PM UTC-8, kinsell wrote:

> Lack of meaningful prop clearance forces two-point takeoffs, as is
> clearly visible in video. Not a real smart way of flying.

Meh. We just measured the HP-24FES and it looks like we'll have about 8.5" of prop clearance in 2-point attitude. That's with the slightly taller undercarriage we built especially for this model. It's not a lot, but probably adequate when used judiciously.

A winch launch, or even an auto tow to 500', would address the prop clearance issue and also pump a bunch of kinetic and potential energy into the glider so you have that much left in the FES batteries.

--Bob K.

[[email protected]]

Obviously, a CG hook would be necessary for an auto or winch tow. Initial acceleration could bring the tow rope off the ground and reduce prop to rope clearance. if the tail comes up, bad things could happen.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 11/5/2019 6:25 PM:
> Obviously, a CG hook would be necessary for an auto or winch tow. Initial
> acceleration could bring the tow rope off the ground and reduce prop to rope
> clearance. if the tail comes up, bad things could happen.

The prop would be folded during the tow, so there would not be any concern about
clearance; ie, a normal aero or auto/winch tow.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[[email protected]]

OOPS! Forgot that little point. Thanks.

[[email protected]]

Any chance this mod. could be done to a -24?

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 3:59:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Any chance this mod. could be done to a -24?

No reason why it couldn't. Actually a little easier due to it being a little more open behind the gear. Could be done on '24 or '28.
UH

[S9]

Would only the fuselage be required in shipment?

[Sergio Elia]

On Wednesday, 6 November 2019 21:59:21 UTC+1, wrote:
> Any chance this mod. could be done to a -24?

It's probably not worth to. Better sell the ASW24 and buy a newer glider equipped with FES. Anyway, better keep on flying the pure glider and do not change sport :-)