Damage from bird strike?

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

A few weeks ago one of our local Warner Springs pilots had a midair with a hawk on the leading edge of his D2 resulting in substantial damage. One can view on Yankee Composite's social media. Question is, how many have suffered damage needing repair after a bird strike, in a glider? Please share your story.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Sun, 01 Dec 2019 10:04:55 -0800, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

> A few weeks ago one of our local Warner Springs pilots had a midair with
> a hawk on the leading edge of his D2 resulting in substantial damage.
> One can view on Yankee Composite's social media. Question is, how many
> have suffered damage needing repair after a bird strike, in a glider?
> Please share your story.

I've not hit one, but twice I've met a smallish raptor (Kestrel or
Buzzard) turning in the opposite direction in a thermal. In both cases I
found the birds relatively hard to see because of their small size. Very
shortly after I saw them, both birds suddenly looked startled look an
instantly closed its wings an plummeted, so I don't think either bird was
looking where it was going. As a result, I won't share a thermal with a
small hawk. I don't think their behaviour is surprising because I don't
remember ever seeing more than one of these small raptors in a thermal.

Gulls are quite different. The few times I've had one or two gulls join
me in a thermal and they've always joined turning the way I was. Like
vultures and kites, they know the rules for sharing thermals and
generally follow them. I have photos of large flocks of vultures and
kites in thermals and all but one or two where flying the same turn, so
that from below it was like looking up through a huge, rotating tube.
Similarly, the only time I've flown with an eagle (at Boulder, CO) it
joined us, formated above and behind our inner tip while it looked us
over.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[JS[_5_]]

ASK21 and red tail.
Damage to hawk, write-off.
Damage to ASK21, nil.
Jim

Hopefully someone from Blairstown will post the hawk in the cockpit story.

[Tim O'Donnell]

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 10:04:57 AM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> A few weeks ago one of our local Warner Springs pilots had a midair with a hawk on the leading edge of his D2 resulting in substantial damage. One can view on Yankee Composite's social media. Question is, how many have suffered damage needing repair after a bird strike, in a glider? Please share your story.

I once was flying down a ridge at Hood River, OR when I noticed something moving in my peripheral vision, I turned my head toward the side and saw what looked like a golden eagle in some sort of backpedal mode maneuvering near my wingtip. It appeared to hit the wingtip and rolled over the top of the wing. I remember distinctly that feathers were folded over the top side and bottom as well, I felt no impact. I turned rapidly to see if I could ID the thing but it apparently dove for the trees below and I never saw it again.

I doubt that I struck the body as they are typically big, heavy birds and I saw no evidence of a direct hit. We often see raptors flying on the ridge during migrations as the route comes through the area. I don't think the eagles have any predators and they aren't afraid of gliders but the hawks are a different story. The hawks seem to always dive away when approached by a glider.

Tim O'Donnell

[Dave Nadler]

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 1:04:57 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> ...Question is, how many have suffered damage needing repair
> after a bird strike, in a glider? Please share your story.

Many years back a partner in our Duo hit a redtail with the Duo's wing.
Top-surface damage required repair.

[[email protected]]

Well geez Jonathan, no wonder that hawk was mad, you forgot the first rule of gaggle flying, namely turn in the same direction as the guy who got there first! lol

[[email protected]]

I personally know of at least 3 "eagles in cockpit" incidents, shattered canpies and.

and this tragic event in Spain, 2 finnish pilots deceased due to collision with a 9.5 kg bird:
https://www.fomento.gob.es/recursos_mfom/038_2011_a_eng.pdf

I guess this proves that bird strike may cause serious damage to a glider.

Aldo Cernezzi

[Karl Striedieck[_2_]]

While attempting to fly formation with a golden eagle cruising along the ridge I couldn't get the glider quite slowed to its speed, about 45mph, and "goosed" it with my left wing. It rolled over the top of the wing, recovered and continued it's mission.

Eagles aren't quite as heavy as Griffon vultures but could do similar damage if the collision speed were higher.

A couple videos of these birds: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=griffon+vulture&&view=detail&mid=875E49C8B53C34C4F309875E49C8B53C34C4F309&rvsmid=484B3012F81B5F25953A484B3012F81B5F25953A&FORM=VDQVAP

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=griffon+vulture&view=detail&mid=484B3012F81B5F25953A484B3012F81B5F25953A&FORM=VIRE

Karl Striedieck

[Eric Munk]

Have seen two examples in the workshop. Both eagles. One took
out the canopy injuring the pilot. Other split the vertical stabilizer
open over a meter leaving 15K worth of damage.

[krasw]

A griffon vulture hit the tip of horizontal tail of DuoDiscus. It ripped it completely off. Sadly the glider was too close to mountain for pilots to open parachutes.

I never felt comfortable thermalling with bigger birds after this accident. Glider has some pretty fragile parts sticking out.

[Justin Couch]

About 15 years ago a pilot in our club in Camden, NSW hit an adult wedgetail eagle in the club's Astir CS. Wingspans typically in the 3m mark, so a pretty large bird. Unknown to the pilot there was about a meter of the leading edge of the wing missing after the impact, roughly in front of the airbrake box. Aircraft landed ok, to the astonishment of everyone, including the pilot who had no idea how bad the damage was. Astirs are *tough*.

There was another wedgetail strike in Western Australia a few years ago. Went through the canopy and into the lap of the pilot. Promptly tossed overboard, as the eagle was apparently still alive. Aircraft landed safely.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/when-eagles-attack-huge-bird-smashes-through-window-lands-in-pilots-lap-ng-ya-233109

[[email protected]]

Was doing a low pass, 3' agl, in a ventus b at redline and hit a sparrow dead center at the leading edge about 3 feet in from the tip. Sounded like a rifle shot and after landing found little evidence of the bird, some feathers and blood, but no damage to the plane. Didnt even take off the gel coat. Cant say the same for my drawers though :)

[Bob Youngblood]

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 1:04:57 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> A few weeks ago one of our local Warner Springs pilots had a midair with a hawk on the leading edge of his D2 resulting in substantial damage. One can view on Yankee Composite's social media. Question is, how many have suffered damage needing repair after a bird strike, in a glider? Please share your story.

Several years ago I restored my J3 Cub and she was and still is a beauty. Shortly after the restoration I was flying low along a swamp canal and I had a collision with a Ghetto Goose, or Anhinga as some call it. The Anginga entered the leading edge of the right wing and went completely through the leading edge fabric and metal skin and lodged itself close to the main spar. The only thing you could see were the two feet of the Anhinga sticking out of the leading edge and a good bit of blood splatter on the wing.
Final result was a recovering of that wing, not a great day for flying along the swamp canals. Bob

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 10:04:57 AM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> A few weeks ago one of our local Warner Springs pilots had a midair with a hawk on the leading edge of his D2 resulting in substantial damage. One can view on Yankee Composite's social media. Question is, how many have suffered damage needing repair after a bird strike, in a glider? Please share your story.

I was the pilot at Warner Springs with the bird strike that Jonathan mentioned. I believe it was a golden eagle. I was thermalling when I noticed it about 50 yards away and a little above me. I was planning on moving over towards it on my next turn around, thinking it had better lift. But as I came around, he was aiming straight at me and coming fast. The image burned in my brain is of his wings and tail twisted up in a last second maneuver it miss me. I think he was trying to scare me and just misjudged. He slammed dead on into my leading edge. Quite a thud, but I still hoped to see him pull out before he hit the ground, When I landed and saw the bloody damage I could see why he didn't make it. No loss of control flying back.Lesson learned: don't **** off eagles.

[BG[_4_]]

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 9:11:18 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Sunday, December 1, 2019 at 10:04:57 AM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > A few weeks ago one of our local Warner Springs pilots had a midair with a hawk on the leading edge of his D2 resulting in substantial damage. One can view on Yankee Composite's social media. Question is, how many have suffered damage needing repair after a bird strike, in a glider? Please share your story.
>
> I was the pilot at Warner Springs with the bird strike that Jonathan mentioned. I believe it was a golden eagle. I was thermalling when I noticed it about 50 yards away and a little above me. I was planning on moving over towards it on my next turn around, thinking it had better lift. But as I came around, he was aiming straight at me and coming fast. The image burned in my brain is of his wings and tail twisted up in a last second maneuver it miss me. I think he was trying to scare me and just misjudged. He slammed dead on into my leading edge. Quite a thud, but I still hoped to see him pull out before he hit the ground, When I landed and saw the bloody damage I could see why he didn't make it. No loss of control flying back.Lesson learned: don't **** off eagles.


While flying out of Dillingham on the North Shore of Oahu, I hit a Frigate bird with the leading edge of a ASW17 on landing. No damage to the plane, only a bloody spot with some feathers left behind by the poor bird. The birds would hang out around the threshold, mine was not the first bird strike.. Closing speed was mostly for me, he was taking off nearly vertically.

I have had many close encounters with hawks, eagles, and Condors. Only the hawks have shown signs of aggression. The will some times roll over and show you there talons if you get too close. The condors were the most benign, we climbed nearly 3k in the same thermal then went on our own separate ways.

BG

[[email protected]]

A friend was flying for SkyWest and took a bird strike on final approach. He reported it to the Tower and they asked, "Is there any damage?" Bill's response was, "Yeah. That sucker's dead!"

[Brian[_1_]]

Not a glider, but I had a redtail hawk come fly in formation with the Aeronca Champ I was instructing in, he maintained position about 6 feet in front of the right wing as we were rounding out and flaring for a 3 point touch down. Just before we touched down he pulled up like he was going to go over the top of the wing. He missed and hit the leading edge of the wing. He must have hit on one of the ribs as there was no damage to wing, but it did kill the hawk.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

[son_of_flubber]

Very informative account. I'd assumed that raptors understood glider flight paths and had good situational awareness. My frequent encounters with Kestrel, Peregrine falcons have all been positive.

My policy is to only enter thermals well below raptors, but they will occasionally join me at same altitude.

Anecdotally, most glider/raptor interactions avoid collision.
Is a glider more likely to collide with a raptor or another glider?

In 2018, I changed altitude to avoid a large migrating gaggle of Canadian Geese (100+) in blue sky mountain wave at 8000. I thought it was a wisp of smoke in the laminar flow, but as it got closer it turned into a bumpy line.. I had about five minutes to move, because they were crabbed to stay in the lift.

Geese are very focused on their task and I don't expect that they would have diverted. If you see a chevron, they're above or below you. A straight line might be same altitude. I wonder if TIS-B would identify a large gaggle?

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 2:42:01 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> My policy is to only enter thermals well below raptors

Yikes - So when they "startle" and reflexively pull in their wings and dive,
they have the best chance of hitting you???

[Dave Walsh[_2_]]

If you are lucky enough to be in SW France there is an Ecopark at
Rocamadour where you can get very close to various Eagles and
Vultures; they are free flown each day.
Griffon Vultures are big ~11kg; ~26lbs! When you have stood next
to one or had one fly past your head a foot or so away you can
appreciate why having a mid-air with one can be so disastrous.
They also have Andean Condors: an even bigger hazard.
Well worth a visit: -

http://www.rocherdesaigles.com

[son_of_flubber]

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 3:14:34 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 2:42:01 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > My policy is to only enter thermals well below raptors
>
> Yikes - So when they "startle" and reflexively pull in their wings and dive,
> they have the best chance of hitting you???

They've often demonstrated their ability to climb faster than me. They can fly much tighter turns and get into the core. I figure that entering below makes me immediately visible, I'm yielding the strategic dominant position, and they have options. If I enter above, the bird might feel vulnerable.

I've only once startled a raptor (hawk?) when I (stupidly) decided to follow after they left the thermal that we'd been sharing. I was not expecting to overtake them at the same altitude, but suddenly a minute later the raptor was cruising wings level in front of my left wing. And then he was a couple feet in front of my leading edge about eight feet to the left. He showed me his white underside and dove. Feeling bad about this, I updated my policy to never follow a raptor when they leave a shared thermal.

[kenward1000]

In 96 I experienced a turkey vulture strike on the vertical fin of the BASA club SGS 1-34 N7632 (November 2000 Soaring cover), near the Truckee California airport. It was a windy blue day at Truckee, strong but ratty south wind. Went up to look for wave, which was found to be weak. Spotted the vulture in the next wave upwind, went to join it. We both climbed and it headed upwind to the next stronger wave. I followed, coming up to it from behind and just off it's right wingtip. I was marveling at how graceful and optimized that vulture was, when it cranked a sudden right 180.

The canopy was suddenly full of rapidly approaching black feathers. I ducked. It cleared the canopy and I thought "oh ****!" but then I felt a thud from the tail. "Oh ****!!" Was glad that I brought a chute and reviewed the bailout procedure before takeoff. Wasn't relishing the idea of bailing out over a heavily forested area, but was ready. Gingerly remained in the wave, trying to figure out if the elevators were still working. Called on radio, to see if anyone could do a flyby for damage inspection. Turns out nobody else went up that day.

After doing very gentle pitch/yaw tests for 30 minutes, decided I still had full control. Decided to land, uneventfully. Field mechanic ruled the glider to be in a non-airworthy condition. Big dent in the middle of the vertical fin leading edge, collapsed the aluminum D tube. Club had to pay $5K to Schweizer, to break out the jigs and make another.

Clear your turns!

Ken
N412BK

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Monday, December 2, 2019 at 1:42:01 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Very informative account. I'd assumed that raptors understood glider flight paths and had good situational awareness. My frequent encounters with Kestrel, Peregrine falcons have all been positive.
>
> My policy is to only enter thermals well below raptors, but they will occasionally join me at same altitude.
>
> Anecdotally, most glider/raptor interactions avoid collision.
> Is a glider more likely to collide with a raptor or another glider?
>
> In 2018, I changed altitude to avoid a large migrating gaggle of Canadian Geese (100+) in blue sky mountain wave at 8000. I thought it was a wisp of smoke in the laminar flow, but as it got closer it turned into a bumpy line. I had about five minutes to move, because they were crabbed to stay in the lift.
>
> Geese are very focused on their task and I don't expect that they would have diverted. If you see a chevron, they're above or below you. A straight line might be same altitude. I wonder if TIS-B would identify a large gaggle?

TIS-B won't show a primary radar return. It only shows you Mode C and Mode S equipped aircraft.

[JS[_5_]]

Flown with many hawks, eagles and vultures, a few condors and fewer osprey.
It seems that when approaching below their altitude you're less likely to spook the bird.
If a hawk or eagle lowers the landing gear, it may be time to leave. From experience with golden and wedge tail eagles, they get quite aggressive near their nest when they have young.
The previously mentioned collision was due to a golden eagle joining the lift we had shared for a while. The hawk lost situational awareness, becoming lunch for the eagle.
Jim

[Waveguru]

I've heard of several accounts of bird strikes on the trailing edges of 1-26s......

Boggs

[Ventus_a]

I've heard of several accounts of bird strikes on the trailing edges of 1-26s......

Boggs


RRTFLMAO :-)