GPS Question.... Yet Again

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

Ok, first off, Sorry to do this to everyone yet again.... I can not
find all the information I seek, so I ask all the experts here. I am
looking for information about the units I list below to help me make a
decision.

I am in the market for a protable GPS. I am not sure which way to go,
but I can say for cerrtain the about $600 is all I want to spend.
Pretty much will settle for Grey Scale....

This means I am in the range of Airmap 1000, Airmap 500, Garmin 96, or
if I push the $'s a bit a Garmin 196 may be within reach, but I think
the wife would not be happy if I spent that much on a "toy." Though,
I have tried to be convincing that it is a life saver in the event of
emergency. Did I leave any decent units out that I should also
consider?

So.... Here are my questions...

Airmap 1000 Questions:
-Is the Airmap 1000 a bit too big for a portable GPS device?
-Is the Wrist strap even worth messing with on a device this large?
-Will this GPS device receive signals reliable without use of the
external antenna?


Airmap 500 and Garmin 96 Questions:
-Sensitivity good without external antenna? (In a C172)
-Again, Is the wrist strap worth even trying? Does it get in the way?

Garmin 196
-It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
is not necessary. So, would an external be needed?
-With the previous in mind, is this device usable if left on top of
the panel?
-Can you reach up and accurately press buttons as needed?
-Is the screen large enough to see if left sitting on top of the
Panel?


General Questions:
How do the GPS Yoke mounts work? I do not own a plane and rent, so is
the Yoke Mount easibly removable, or should I forget that idea all
together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
without getting in the way? Is the wrist strap even worth messing
with?


Of the 4 GPS devices I have listed in or near my price range which is
the best all around device for the money? I think the most important
thing to me is the ability to acquire a signal without the use of an
external antenna. I do not want wires running through the airplane
getting in the way and interfering with the flight controls.

Additionally, I want it to be usable while flying without causing too
much distraction. By that I mean I do not want to be head down trying
to figure out what button to push to switch modes. Single button
presses to switch between functions would be ideal.

Since I do not fly long trips a lot, battery life is not of real
concern. I would be happy with about 4-5 hours battery life.



Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[jsmith]

I have a GPS195.
Garmin ships a heavy duty yoke mount with their units.
The yoke mount works nicely unless you have a chart clip or clock which
you intend to use already attached to the yoke.
I purchased a RAM suction cup mount in these cases.
I find it works better by allowing me to place the screen in a more
viewable position.

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
> General Questions:
> How do the GPS Yoke mounts work? I do not own a plane and rent, so is
> the Yoke Mount easibly removable, or should I forget that idea all
> together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
> without getting in the way? Is the wrist strap even worth messing
> with?

[houstondan]

i'm sold on lowrance. for about 150$ they'll sell you an ifinder trail
model moving map gps (i've got one) that will get you from here to
there and back again just fine. altitude and ground speed included and
the electronic guts are the same as the big boys. hang it from the air
vent in a 172. it does not have the avaition map database but you do
have a current sectional, don't you? it's even got a "nearest airport"
feature. i finally bought a 1000 to get more avaition information but
really, the 1finder (same case and guts as the 500) is just a great
little machine.


dan

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>I purchased a RAM suction cup mount in these cases.
>I find it works better by allowing me to place the screen in a more
>viewable position.


No problem with the suction cup falling off if you have a hard landing
or some speed bumps in the air? I was considering that option as
well.


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>i'm sold on lowrance. for about 150$ they'll sell you an ifinder trail
>model moving map gps (i've got one) that will get you from here to
>there and back again just fine. altitude and ground speed included and
>the electronic guts are the same as the big boys. hang it from the air
>vent in a 172. it does not have the avaition map database but you do
>have a current sectional, don't you? it's even got a "nearest airport"
>feature. i finally bought a 1000 to get more avaition information but
>really, the 1finder (same case and guts as the 500) is just a great
>little machine.


No aviation database yet it has a nearest airport feature... hmm..
Sounds like something to look into... Does it have the small airports
listed as well? For example F70 or KHMT... I would appreciate it if
you could you see if those are listed for me? Does it tell you the
runway orientation?



Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

Now your past has caught my interest... I did some searching and came
across a site... What do you think of this:

http://www.cockpitgps.com/data/

It looks like this guy has made a database to add into the ifinder for
all airports and navigation points. Very interesting... Might just do
the for 25% the cost. What to user defined waypoints show up as on
the screen? Can you make a special graphic for it?

>i'm sold on lowrance. for about 150$ they'll sell you an ifinder trail
>model moving map gps (i've got one) that will get you from here to
>there and back again just fine. altitude and ground speed included and
>the electronic guts are the same as the big boys. hang it from the air
>vent in a 172. it does not have the avaition map database but you do
>have a current sectional, don't you? it's even got a "nearest airport"
>feature. i finally bought a 1000 to get more avaition information but
>really, the 1finder (same case and guts as the 500) is just a great
>little machine.
>
>
>dan


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Scrabo]

I can speak for thre Airmap 500

>> Sensitivity good without external antenna? (In a C172)

Never had to use it. Mounted on the supplied RAM yoke mount, it has never
lost a signal on me

-Again, Is the wrist strap worth even trying? Does it get in the way?

Never used it, I just stick with the yoke mount

Rob.


"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, first off, Sorry to do this to everyone yet again.... I can not
> find all the information I seek, so I ask all the experts here. I am
> looking for information about the units I list below to help me make a
> decision.
>
> I am in the market for a protable GPS. I am not sure which way to go,
> but I can say for cerrtain the about $600 is all I want to spend.
> Pretty much will settle for Grey Scale....
>
> This means I am in the range of Airmap 1000, Airmap 500, Garmin 96, or
> if I push the $'s a bit a Garmin 196 may be within reach, but I think
> the wife would not be happy if I spent that much on a "toy." Though,
> I have tried to be convincing that it is a life saver in the event of
> emergency. Did I leave any decent units out that I should also
> consider?
>
> So.... Here are my questions...
>
> Airmap 1000 Questions:
> -Is the Airmap 1000 a bit too big for a portable GPS device?
> -Is the Wrist strap even worth messing with on a device this large?
> -Will this GPS device receive signals reliable without use of the
> external antenna?
>
>
> Airmap 500 and Garmin 96 Questions:
> -Sensitivity good without external antenna? (In a C172)
> -Again, Is the wrist strap worth even trying? Does it get in the way?
>
> Garmin 196
> -It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
> in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
> would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
> is not necessary. So, would an external be needed?
> -With the previous in mind, is this device usable if left on top of
> the panel?
> -Can you reach up and accurately press buttons as needed?
> -Is the screen large enough to see if left sitting on top of the
> Panel?
>
>
> General Questions:
> How do the GPS Yoke mounts work? I do not own a plane and rent, so is
> the Yoke Mount easibly removable, or should I forget that idea all
> together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
> without getting in the way? Is the wrist strap even worth messing
> with?
>
>
> Of the 4 GPS devices I have listed in or near my price range which is
> the best all around device for the money? I think the most important
> thing to me is the ability to acquire a signal without the use of an
> external antenna. I do not want wires running through the airplane
> getting in the way and interfering with the flight controls.
>
> Additionally, I want it to be usable while flying without causing too
> much distraction. By that I mean I do not want to be head down trying
> to figure out what button to push to switch modes. Single button
> presses to switch between functions would be ideal.
>
> Since I do not fly long trips a lot, battery life is not of real
> concern. I would be happy with about 4-5 hours battery life.
>
>
>
> Mike Alexander
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> See my online aerial photo album at
> http://flying.4alexanders.com

[houstondan]

thanks...that site looks interesting. one good thing about the lowrance
is that they have little nonpropriatary data cards (mmc?) you can write
stuff onto. i got the map create6 package, another 100$ or so...which
has a data r-rw function. pick what you want from the cd, dump it into
the mmc and you've got all of southeast texas or whatever. but it's not
an avaition database.

even without the data stuff, if iwant to go to some distant airport i
just get the airport directory, get the long/lat and set an airplane
icon(or any of made 30 different icons) there to mark the waypoint. set
"goto that waypoint" and you're done but for the flyin. distance, time
to arrival. i have a list of waypoints for a lot of the local airports.


as to runway orientation, no.

i would never suggest this but...if you push the waypoint button just
as you're touching down on your favorite runway then the machine can
get you within a few feet of that spot next time.

oh, and lowrance runs on regular "aa" batteries. nothing special. i've
got cigarette adapters too but most of the local rentals do not have
the power plugs. besides, batteries are easy and cheap.

dan

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>even without the data stuff, if iwant to go to some distant airport i
>just get the airport directory, get the long/lat and set an airplane
>icon(or any of made 30 different icons) there to mark the waypoint. set
>"goto that waypoint" and you're done but for the flyin. distance, time
>to arrival. i have a list of waypoints for a lot of the local airports.

You said something here which leads me to another question...

Does this unit calculate the distance, TTA, and show current GS and
heading?



Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[kage]

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, first off, Sorry to do this to everyone yet again.... I can not
> find all the information I seek, so I ask all the experts here. I am


Mike,
Nice web site.

If I were spending $750 on a GPS it would be a reconditioned Garmin 196,

http://tinyurl.com/6b2eq

and this mount:

http://www.propellerheadpilotessentials.com/

This keeps the GPS off the yoke, out of the way, and in "plane" sight. This
is a better mount than any RAM.

The 196 now has an obstruction database for $35, and I bet you could talk
T/A into including it.

Best,
Karl

[jsmith]

I have over 50 hours using during the last two years, it hasn't fallen
off... yet.
The suction cup is 4-5 inches in diameter. I usually attach it to the
lower corner of the windscreen.

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
> No problem with the suction cup falling off if you have a hard landing
> or some speed bumps in the air? I was considering that option as
> well.

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

>"Mike 'Flyin'8'" > wrote in message
...
>> Ok, first off, Sorry to do this to everyone yet again.... I can not
>> find all the information I seek, so I ask all the experts here. I am
>
>
>Mike,
>Nice web site.
>
>If I were spending $750 on a GPS it would be a reconditioned Garmin 196,
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6b2eq
>
>and this mount:
>
>http://www.propellerheadpilotessentials.com/
>
>This keeps the GPS off the yoke, out of the way, and in "plane" sight. This
>is a better mount than any RAM.
>
>The 196 now has an obstruction database for $35, and I bet you could talk
>T/A into including it.
>
>Best,
>Karl


The website is something fun for me to do when I don't have enough
dollars to create lift. It is really like putting it together and
working on it. Every minute I spend working on the site reminds me of
my flight. Thanks for the compliment.

As for the GPS, the 196 is certainly a nice unit... I am just
considering all my options to unsure I get the most GPS for the least
amount of money. I am leaning towards the Airmap 500 or Airmap 1000,
but I am not totally sold yet. I wish I could find one to play around
with before I drop a pile of money for one.


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[houstondan]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
> >even without the data stuff, if iwant to go to some distant airport
i
> >just get the airport directory, get the long/lat and set an airplane
> >icon(or any of made 30 different icons) there to mark the waypoint.
set
> >"goto that waypoint" and you're done but for the flyin. distance,
time
> >to arrival. i have a list of waypoints for a lot of the local
airports.
>
> You said something here which leads me to another question...
>
> Does this unit calculate the distance, TTA, and show current GS and
> heading?

yep...all that stuff. and altitude too but i haven't fooled with that
enough to know if i trust it. it's also waas ready and has the usual
choice of map orientation: north up, track up etc. and even a little,
very readable arrow when you're navigating to a point. i kept it in the
bag as "just in case" on the crosscountries but never used it when
studenting and now it's my backup to the 1000.

dan

[Dave]

>Airmap 1000 Questions:
>-Is the Airmap 1000 a bit too big for a portable GPS device?

Nope

>-Is the Wrist strap even worth messing with on a device this large?

Nope

>-Will this GPS device receive signals reliable without use of the
>external antenna?

Yes
>
>
>Airmap 500 and Garmin 96 Questions:
>-Sensitivity good without external antenna? (In a C172)
>-Again, Is the wrist strap worth even trying? Does it get in the way?
>
>Garmin 196
>-It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
>in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
>would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
>is not necessary.

Correct

So, would an external be needed?

No


>-With the previous in mind, is this device usable if left on top of
>the panel?
>-Can you reach up and accurately press buttons as needed?

No. not in any rough air

>-Is the screen large enough to see if left sitting on top of the
>Panel?

No
>
>
>General Questions:
>How do the GPS Yoke mounts work?

The RAM mount with the AirMap 1000 is superb


I do not own a plane and rent, so is
>the Yoke Mount easibly removable,

Yes the Ram mount is easily Removed

or should I forget that idea all
>together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
>without getting in the way?

Yes it does

Is the wrist strap even worth messing
>with?
>
NO


>
>Of the 4 GPS devices I have listed in or near my price range which is
>the best all around device for the money?

The AM 1000 has by far the largest screen, useful for older eyes :)
and single button presses, important in Rough air

I think the most important
>thing to me is the ability to acquire a signal without the use of an
>external antenna. I do not want wires running through the airplane
>getting in the way and interfering with the flight controls.
>
>Additionally, I want it to be usable while flying without causing too
>much distraction. By that I mean I do not want to be head down trying
>to figure out what button to push to switch modes. Single button
>presses to switch between functions would be ideal.

We chose the AM 1000 becauses of this...
>
>Since I do not fly long trips a lot, battery life is not of real
>concern. I would be happy with about 4-5 hours battery life.
>

Would be close, keep the backlight off...

Dave

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

Dave,

Thanks for your input! So if I mount the AM1000 on the Yoke, it does
not block any of the instruments in the cockpit?

When you turn the Yoke, does the AM1000 stay vertically aligned, or
does it turn with the yoke?

Since the AM500 and AM1000 are pretty much the same unit (Except for
size) Is the extra $200 a good trade off for screen size? I have not
seen either of these units in person so I am not sure how dramatic the
difference on the screen is... I drew out two boxes that are the exact
size of the units, and the AM1000 is quite a bit bigger... I am
certainly leaning toward either the AM500 or AM1000, but trying to
justify the money in my head... If the AM500 does exactly what I
want, and the screen/button size is usable then I would be happy. If
however, the buttons are too small to be easily used during flight,
then I would be very disappointed. My currrent solution is jsut not
working... The PDA using GPS software and a CF card. It is just not
practical. How the heck am I supposed to use the little stylus during
flight... :-)

Obviously you thought the cost was worth the extra size on the
screen... I am just afraid the size of the unit would block some of
my view in the cockpit. What about using this AirMap 1000 on a
suction cup mount connected to the lower left side of the front
windscreen? Workable?




>
>>Airmap 1000 Questions:
>>-Is the Airmap 1000 a bit too big for a portable GPS device?
>
>Nope
>
>>-Is the Wrist strap even worth messing with on a device this large?
>
>Nope
>
>>-Will this GPS device receive signals reliable without use of the
>>external antenna?
>
>Yes
>>
>>
>>Airmap 500 and Garmin 96 Questions:
>>-Sensitivity good without external antenna? (In a C172)
>>-Again, Is the wrist strap worth even trying? Does it get in the way?
>>
>>Garmin 196
>>-It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
>>in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
>>would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
>>is not necessary.
>
>Correct
>
> So, would an external be needed?
>
>No
>
>
>>-With the previous in mind, is this device usable if left on top of
>>the panel?
>>-Can you reach up and accurately press buttons as needed?
>
>No. not in any rough air
>
>>-Is the screen large enough to see if left sitting on top of the
>>Panel?
>
>No
>>
>>
>>General Questions:
>>How do the GPS Yoke mounts work?
>
>The RAM mount with the AirMap 1000 is superb
>
>
> I do not own a plane and rent, so is
>>the Yoke Mount easibly removable,
>
>Yes the Ram mount is easily Removed
>
> or should I forget that idea all
>>together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
>>without getting in the way?
>
>Yes it does
>
> Is the wrist strap even worth messing
>>with?
>>
>NO
>
>
>>
>>Of the 4 GPS devices I have listed in or near my price range which is
>>the best all around device for the money?
>
>The AM 1000 has by far the largest screen, useful for older eyes :)
>and single button presses, important in Rough air
>
> I think the most important
>>thing to me is the ability to acquire a signal without the use of an
>>external antenna. I do not want wires running through the airplane
>>getting in the way and interfering with the flight controls.
>>
>>Additionally, I want it to be usable while flying without causing too
>>much distraction. By that I mean I do not want to be head down trying
>>to figure out what button to push to switch modes. Single button
>>presses to switch between functions would be ideal.
>
>We chose the AM 1000 becauses of this...
>>
>>Since I do not fly long trips a lot, battery life is not of real
>>concern. I would be happy with about 4-5 hours battery life.
>>
>
>Would be close, keep the backlight off...
>
>Dave


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Blanche]

Garmin has a beanbag mount for the smaller portables. I keep mine
on the glareshield with a piece of anti-skid rubber velcro'd to
the bottom of the portable. There's no "head down" issue. I've
tried the portable on the yoke and really hate it because that's
where I keep the list of freqs I need.

Since Garmin has officially declared the Pilot III as discontinued
(but still supported with database) you could pick up a used one
very reasonably and use that for a while and get used to it.

Then turn around and sell it to buy something more fancy later on.

[Jonathan Sorger]

I was researching the same thing 4 months ago.
Excellent suggestions from members of this group led me to purchase the
Airmap 1000.

No regrets.

No need for the external antenna (in a 172 or 152).

The screen, when mounted on the yoke does not block any of my
instruments. It looks huge in the pictures, but is a good size for the
yoke, in my opinion. Of course, I originally found myself looking at
the unit when I should have been doing my scan of both the sky and
instruments. With practice, I no longer do this.

Whatever unit you get, I highly recommend sitting in the right seat
while a friend flies and messing around with the unit. Folks told me to
play with it at home, but it's nice to do it in a moving plane.

Use of a wrist strap with the Airmap 1000 would probably result in
carpal tunnel syndrome.

I'm in the SF Bay area and find the unit telling me the actual
boundaries of airspaces to be quite useful. With the secional, I know
I'm 'close' but never actually sure of my position.

The runway guidance feature is useful when approaching an unfamiliar
airport.

Then again, I'm a new pilot with 150 or so hours.

Jonathan

In > Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
> Ok, first off, Sorry to do this to everyone yet again.... I can not
> find all the information I seek, so I ask all the experts here. I am
> looking for information about the units I list below to help me make a
> decision.
>
> I am in the market for a protable GPS. I am not sure which way to go,
> but I can say for cerrtain the about $600 is all I want to spend.
> Pretty much will settle for Grey Scale....
>
> This means I am in the range of Airmap 1000, Airmap 500, Garmin 96, or
> if I push the $'s a bit a Garmin 196 may be within reach, but I think
> the wife would not be happy if I spent that much on a "toy." Though,
> I have tried to be convincing that it is a life saver in the event of
> emergency. Did I leave any decent units out that I should also
> consider?
>
> So.... Here are my questions...
>
> Airmap 1000 Questions:
> -Is the Airmap 1000 a bit too big for a portable GPS device?
> -Is the Wrist strap even worth messing with on a device this large?
> -Will this GPS device receive signals reliable without use of the
> external antenna?
>
>
> Airmap 500 and Garmin 96 Questions:
> -Sensitivity good without external antenna? (In a C172)
> -Again, Is the wrist strap worth even trying? Does it get in the way?
>
> Garmin 196
> -It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
> in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
> would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
> is not necessary. So, would an external be needed?
> -With the previous in mind, is this device usable if left on top of
> the panel?
> -Can you reach up and accurately press buttons as needed?
> -Is the screen large enough to see if left sitting on top of the
> Panel?
>
>
> General Questions:
> How do the GPS Yoke mounts work? I do not own a plane and rent, so is
> the Yoke Mount easibly removable, or should I forget that idea all
> together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
> without getting in the way? Is the wrist strap even worth messing
> with?
>
>
> Of the 4 GPS devices I have listed in or near my price range which is
> the best all around device for the money? I think the most important
> thing to me is the ability to acquire a signal without the use of an
> external antenna. I do not want wires running through the airplane
> getting in the way and interfering with the flight controls.
>
> Additionally, I want it to be usable while flying without causing too
> much distraction. By that I mean I do not want to be head down trying
> to figure out what button to push to switch modes. Single button
> presses to switch between functions would be ideal.
>
> Since I do not fly long trips a lot, battery life is not of real
> concern. I would be happy with about 4-5 hours battery life.
>
>
>
> Mike Alexander
> PP-ASEL
> Temecula, CA
> See my online aerial photo album at
> http://flying.4alexanders.com
>

[Blanche]

A suggestion...

Make a cardboard cutout of each of the GPS you're investigating -- actual
size. Then take them with you next time you fly. After you preflight,
sit in the cockpit and place the cutouts in various places until you
find the most convenient & comfy place for you.

If you discover the best place is in the middle of the cockpit, in
thin air, then you know you need to figure out what type of
"arm attachment" you'll need.

[Thomas Borchert]

Mike,

> How do the GPS Yoke mounts work? I do not own a plane and rent, so is
> the Yoke Mount easibly removable, or should I forget that idea all
> together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
> without getting in the way? Is the wrist strap even worth messing
> with?
>

I would forget about wrist straps, period. The yoke mounts from RAM (I
know they come with the Lowrances, don't know the Garmins) are excellent
and work real well in Cessnas. Also, for stick aircraft or added
felxibility, you will get a suction cup mount from Lowrance included in
the price, too. If the suction cup is well designed - and everything
from RAM is - the plane will break before it comes off.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Mike,

> I wish I could find one to play around
> with before I drop a pile of money for one.
>

Can you say "return policy"?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Thomas,

> Also, for stick aircraft or added
> felxibility,
>

Oh, and if you fly out of Carlsbad, as the photos on your site seem to
imply, you WILL fly stick aircraft. Check out Pinnacle's DA40. One
flight and you'll never look back.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 14:52:02 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
> wrote:

>Garmin 196
>-It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
>in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
>would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
>is not necessary. So, would an external be needed?

I don't know what airplane you're flying, but I've never felt the need
for an external antenna with the 296. It works just fine anywhere
inside the Cub (which, to be sure, has overhead glazing).


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

[Cub Driver]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 14:52:02 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
> wrote:

>How do the GPS Yoke mounts work?

The one Garmin supplies is an unbelievably complex gadget that, in any
arrangement I can hook up, is given to shaking. (The Cub of course
doesn't have a yoke.) Much more useful, I found, was the velcro
dashboard mount, but of course that requires that you own the
dashboard so as to put the matching velcro strip on it. I put the
velcro on an inverted picture frame www.pipercubforum.com/garmin.htm
that goes atop the Cub's front seat.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

[Darrel Toepfer]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

> I am leaning towards the Airmap 500 or Airmap 1000,
> but I am not totally sold yet. I wish I could find one to play around
> with before I drop a pile of money for one.

We're on our second 1000, sold the first one with the C152...

Download the 1000 emulator/simulator from Lowrance:
http://www.lowrance.com/Software/PCSoftware/Install/AirMap1000/AirMap1000_demo.asp

I also have a Magellan 315 I keep current through here:
http://home.stny.rr.com/bkw/315
Typically they can be found used for around $100...

[Flyin'[email protected]]

Carlsbad indeed. I am still a new pilot, so I am not ready to jump out of
my C172 just yet. :-) I am certaily anxious to try some new planes
though.

Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> Thomas,
>
> > Also, for stick aircraft or added
> > felxibility,
> >
>
> Oh, and if you fly out of Carlsbad, as the photos on your site seem to
> imply, you WILL fly stick aircraft. Check out Pinnacle's DA40. One
> flight and you'll never look back.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Thomas Borchert]

> Carlsbad indeed.
>

Are you flying with Pinnacle? I rented there last fall and really liked
the outfit. Very professional. First place I've seen to turn away a
prospective renter after the non-satisfactory check-out (another
German, not very fluent in English and neither, it seemed, in Cessnas).

Their DA-40 isn't much more expensive than the new 172s, if you factor
in the higher speed - and it is a world apart. I'd recommend making the
transition as soon as possible, if only because flying different types
tremendously widens a pilot's horizon. Also, the visibility out of the
"flying bubble" will blow you away, pure and simple.

I might be coming back next fall...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[John Bell]

Mike,

Try the main site at www.cockpitgps.com.

John Bell



> Now your past has caught my interest... I did some searching and came
> across a site... What do you think of this:
>
> http://www.cockpitgps.com/data/
>
> It looks like this guy has made a database to add into the ifinder for
> all airports and navigation points. Very interesting... Might just do
> the for 25% the cost. What to user defined waypoints show up as on
> the screen? Can you make a special graphic for it?
>

[Flyin'[email protected]]

Thomas,

I fly with a club, Pacific Coast Flyers. I actually live in Temecula, so
it is about an hour drive to the airport. I am thinking of getting checked
out at our local airport (French Valley) F70 to make my drive only 10
minutes.

> Are you flying with Pinnacle? I rented there last fall and really liked
> the outfit. Very professional. First place I've seen to turn away a
> prospective renter after the non-satisfactory check-out (another
> German, not very fluent in English and neither, it seemed, in Cessnas).
>

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Flyin'[email protected]]

Hey... It is that guy! :-)

Thanks for the information John. I will check it out!

"John Bell" > wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Try the main site at www.cockpitgps.com.
>
> John Bell
>
> > Now your past has caught my interest... I did some searching and came
> > across a site... What do you think of this:
> >
> > http://www.cockpitgps.com/data/
> >
> > It looks like this guy has made a database to add into the ifinder for
> > all airports and navigation points. Very interesting... Might just do
> > the for 25% the cost. What to user defined waypoints show up as on
> > the screen? Can you make a special graphic for it?
> >

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[C J Campbell]

GPS yoke mounts are the way to go. Setting a GPS on top of the dash is
likely to interfere with your compass.

To be honest, as an emergency backup device, the Garmin 196 does not have
any special advantages over any other aviation GPS. If you were using it all
the time, especially with the new terrain feature, then yes.

[Flyin'[email protected]]

I think I am sold on the AirMap 1000 with either Yoke Mount or the Suction
Cup Mount. I believe the 1000 comes with buth types of mounts, so I can
try them both and see what is the best for me. I have been looking for low
priced AirMaps and found one for $499.00, falls right at the edge of my
budget. Also, it includes all the goodies (e.g. 2 different mounts, Power
adapter, carrying case, extra memory card etc)

I will play with the demo software of the AirMap 1000 and make sure before
I order the unit tomorrow.

Also, if I had the extra $300 I could get the Airmap 2000C for something
like $799. That is a real steal IMO.

Mike


"C J Campbell" > wrote:
> GPS yoke mounts are the way to go. Setting a GPS on top of the dash is
> likely to interfere with your compass.
>
> To be honest, as an emergency backup device, the Garmin 196 does not have
> any special advantages over any other aviation GPS. If you were using it
> all the time, especially with the new terrain feature, then yes.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Paul kgyy]

Another option is a used or reconditioned Garmin GPS Pilot III. It has
an excellent database, is compact, gets 8-10 hours on 4 NiMH batteries.
Internal antenna is fine if you can give it a reasonable view of the
sky.

[Flyin'[email protected]]

wrote:
> I think I am sold on the AirMap 1000 with either Yoke Mount or the
> Suction Cup Mount. I believe the 1000 comes with buth types of mounts,
> so I can try them both and see what is the best for me. I have been
> looking for low priced AirMaps and found one for $499.00, falls right at
> the edge of my budget. Also, it includes all the goodies (e.g. 2
> different mounts, Power adapter, carrying case, extra memory card etc)
>
> I will play with the demo software of the AirMap 1000 and make sure
> before I order the unit tomorrow.
>
> Also, if I had the extra $300 I could get the Airmap 2000C for something
> like $799. That is a real steal IMO.
>


I mis-stated the price... It is actually $399 for the Airmap 1000, brand
new from factory. What deal!

Mike

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[houstondan]

check that price...sportys is$599 for the 1000 and $399 for the 500.

dan

[Flyin'[email protected]]

Yeah, I know. I have talked to the guy and confirmed the $399 price twice
now. He normally sells the units for $499.00 but starting tomorrow will be
able to lower the price $100. The factory is lowering the cost to
distributors by $100 and he is passing this savings on to customers. This
makes the unit $399.00, brand new from the factory. He is listed as a
distributor at Lowrance as well.


"houstondan" > wrote:
> check that price...sportys is$599 for the 1000 and $399 for the 500.
>
> dan

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Jonathan Sorger]

Problem with the 2000C is the battery life IMO.
If you'll be flying planes with no cig. lighter...

In > wrote:
> I think I am sold on the AirMap 1000 with either Yoke Mount or the
> Suction Cup Mount. I believe the 1000 comes with buth types of mounts,
> so I can try them both and see what is the best for me. I have been
> looking for low priced AirMaps and found one for $499.00, falls right
> at the edge of my budget. Also, it includes all the goodies (e.g. 2
> different mounts, Power adapter, carrying case, extra memory card etc)
>
> I will play with the demo software of the AirMap 1000 and make sure
> before I order the unit tomorrow.
>
> Also, if I had the extra $300 I could get the Airmap 2000C for
> something like $799. That is a real steal IMO.
>
> Mike
>
>
> "C J Campbell" > wrote:
>> GPS yoke mounts are the way to go. Setting a GPS on top of the dash
>> is likely to interfere with your compass.
>>
>> To be honest, as an emergency backup device, the Garmin 196 does not
>> have any special advantages over any other aviation GPS. If you were
>> using it all the time, especially with the new terrain feature, then
>> yes.
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

This is for a Lowrance 1000... $300 more for a 2000C... Reads like you
should sell the current one with the plane for full price...

From:
Date: 14 Mar 2005 21:18:40 GMT

Yeah, I know. I have talked to the guy and confirmed the $399 price
twice now. He normally sells the units for $499.00 but starting tomorrow
will be able to lower the price $100. The factory is lowering the cost
to distributors by $100 and he is passing this savings on to customers.
This makes the unit $399.00, brand new from the factory. He is listed
as a distributor at Lowrance as well.


"houstondan" > wrote:
> check that price...sportys is$599 for the 1000 and $399 for the 500.
>
> dan

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Dave Butler]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
>
> Garmin 196
> -It looks like this device has the ability to set on top of the dash
> in the plane with the antenna exposed through the windscreen. So I
> would imagine if left on top of the control panel an external antenna
> is not necessary. So, would an external be needed?
>
> -With the previous in mind, is this device usable if left on top of
> the panel?

It works OK in my car on its beanbag mount sitting on the dashboard. It doesn't
work on the yoke in the Mooney, never tried setting it on the glareshield. It
might depend on rake angle of the windscreen and how much of the sky is visible
from its mounting position.

I keep mine on the yoke in my Mooney, use external ship's power and the external
antenna. I use small spring clamps to route the wires so they're not in my way.

> -Can you reach up and accurately press buttons as needed?

On the yoke mount - no problem. In the car on the dashboard the distance from my
eyes is inconvenient for my bifocals. I can read the big numbers but not the
little street names.

> -Is the screen large enough to see if left sitting on top of the
> Panel?
>
>
> General Questions:
> How do the GPS Yoke mounts work? I do not own a plane and rent, so is
> the Yoke Mount easibly removable, or should I forget that idea all
> together and just use a wrist strap? Does it work on a Cessna 172
> without getting in the way? Is the wrist strap even worth messing
> with?

The yoke mount and the associated wiring and spring clips for routing the wiring
are a bit of a pain for me as I share the plane with 3 partners who don't want
to use it. Still worth it, though. It probably takes only 3 minutes or so to
install/uninstall.

[Dave Butler]

C J Campbell wrote:
> GPS yoke mounts are the way to go. Setting a GPS on top of the dash is
> likely to interfere with your compass.
>
> To be honest, as an emergency backup device, the Garmin 196 does not have
> any special advantages over any other aviation GPS. If you were using it all
> the time, especially with the new terrain feature, then yes.

Just for the record, it's an obstacle feature and doesn't show terrain.

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

I am not following your comment...

I do not have a plane or a GPS. I am in the market for a GPS and came
across a good deal on the Airmap 1000.

>This is for a Lowrance 1000... $300 more for a 2000C... Reads like you
>should sell the current one with the plane for full price...
>
>From:
>Date: 14 Mar 2005 21:18:40 GMT
>
>Yeah, I know. I have talked to the guy and confirmed the $399 price
>twice now. He normally sells the units for $499.00 but starting tomorrow
>will be able to lower the price $100. The factory is lowering the cost
>to distributors by $100 and he is passing this savings on to customers.
> This makes the unit $399.00, brand new from the factory. He is listed
>as a distributor at Lowrance as well.
>
>
>"houstondan" > wrote:
>> check that price...sportys is$599 for the 1000 and $399 for the 500.
>>
>> dan


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Dave]

Hi Mike!

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:51:10 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
> wrote:

>Dave,
>
>Thanks for your input! So if I mount the AM1000 on the Yoke, it does
>not block any of the instruments in the cockpit?

I am 5' 9" , partner is 6'4". He says no, the knob on the mount
blocks the 0 -800 RPM portion of the tach for me if I sit perfectly
straight..shift my head to the right an inch or two, and my answer is
no as well...
>
>When you turn the Yoke, does the AM1000 stay vertically aligned, or
>does it turn with the yoke?

It turns with the yoke..

>
>Since the AM500 and AM1000 are pretty much the same unit (Except for
>size) Is the extra $200 a good trade off for screen size?

Yes, absolutely for us...

I have not
>seen either of these units in person so I am not sure how dramatic the
>difference on the screen is... I drew out two boxes that are the exact
>size of the units, and the AM1000 is quite a bit bigger... I am
>certainly leaning toward either the AM500 or AM1000, but trying to
>justify the money in my head... If the AM500 does exactly what I
>want, and the screen/button size is usable then I would be happy. If
>however, the buttons are too small to be easily used during flight,
>then I would be very disappointed. My currrent solution is jsut not
>working... The PDA using GPS software and a CF card. It is just not
>practical. How the heck am I supposed to use the little stylus during
>flight... :-)

I don't know either... the AM 1000 has large widely spaced buttons,
easily reached with your thumbs while firmly holding the yoke.

We tried several, and the most difficult was a Garmin 196 mounted at
arms length in the center of the panel. OK on the ground, but in rough
air, just try to push a small (correct) button at arms length with
you (and your hand) moving opposite to the panel in rough conditions.

>
>Obviously you thought the cost was worth the extra size on the
>screen... I am just afraid the size of the unit would block some of
>my view in the cockpit.

As above, not an issue with us on our 1974 "M" model

What about using this AirMap 1000 on a
>suction cup mount connected to the lower left side of the front
>windscreen? Workable?

Yes, should work OK, but when it gets bumpy, having your
thumbs/hands/buttons/GPS and yoke locked together takes the pain out
of the operation..

..
We REALLY happy with the AM..But that is just us, YMMV!

Good luck..

Happy to answer any other ???? U may have...

As you may guess by now, we tried several (in other 172's) and we
shopped hard :)

Dave

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

Thanks Dave. Appreciate your input. I actually placed the order for
the AM1000 today. I will first try the Yoke Mount as suggested and if
it becomes a distraction I will get one of those suction cup mounts
for the windscreen. I think I will like the yoke mount, however, I am
not so sure I will like the GPS turning with the yoke, that may be the
gotcha for me...



On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:38:47 -0400, Dave
> wrote:

>Hi Mike!
>
>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:51:10 -0800, Mike 'Flyin'8'
> wrote:
>
>>Dave,
>>
>>Thanks for your input! So if I mount the AM1000 on the Yoke, it does
>>not block any of the instruments in the cockpit?
>
>I am 5' 9" , partner is 6'4". He says no, the knob on the mount
>blocks the 0 -800 RPM portion of the tach for me if I sit perfectly
>straight..shift my head to the right an inch or two, and my answer is
>no as well...
>>
>>When you turn the Yoke, does the AM1000 stay vertically aligned, or
>>does it turn with the yoke?
>
>It turns with the yoke..
>
>>
>>Since the AM500 and AM1000 are pretty much the same unit (Except for
>>size) Is the extra $200 a good trade off for screen size?
>
>Yes, absolutely for us...
>
> I have not
>>seen either of these units in person so I am not sure how dramatic the
>>difference on the screen is... I drew out two boxes that are the exact
>>size of the units, and the AM1000 is quite a bit bigger... I am
>>certainly leaning toward either the AM500 or AM1000, but trying to
>>justify the money in my head... If the AM500 does exactly what I
>>want, and the screen/button size is usable then I would be happy. If
>>however, the buttons are too small to be easily used during flight,
>>then I would be very disappointed. My currrent solution is jsut not
>>working... The PDA using GPS software and a CF card. It is just not
>>practical. How the heck am I supposed to use the little stylus during
>>flight... :-)
>
>I don't know either... the AM 1000 has large widely spaced buttons,
>easily reached with your thumbs while firmly holding the yoke.
>
>We tried several, and the most difficult was a Garmin 196 mounted at
>arms length in the center of the panel. OK on the ground, but in rough
>air, just try to push a small (correct) button at arms length with
>you (and your hand) moving opposite to the panel in rough conditions.
>
>>
>>Obviously you thought the cost was worth the extra size on the
>>screen... I am just afraid the size of the unit would block some of
>>my view in the cockpit.
>
>As above, not an issue with us on our 1974 "M" model
>
> What about using this AirMap 1000 on a
>>suction cup mount connected to the lower left side of the front
>>windscreen? Workable?
>
>Yes, should work OK, but when it gets bumpy, having your
>thumbs/hands/buttons/GPS and yoke locked together takes the pain out
>of the operation..
>
>.
>We REALLY happy with the AM..But that is just us, YMMV!
>
> Good luck..
>
>Happy to answer any other ???? U may have...
>
>As you may guess by now, we tried several (in other 172's) and we
>shopped hard :)
>
>Dave


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Thomas Borchert]

Mike,

> I will get one of those suction cup mounts
> for the windscreen.
>

You'll be pulling it out of the carton the AM1000 came in - it's
included.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Darrel Toepfer]

Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

> I am not following your comment...
>
> I do not have a plane or a GPS. I am in the market for a GPS and came
> across a good deal on the Airmap 1000.

Wasn't meant for usenet, sent a kill request in its regard, that wasn't
honored by the ISP...

[Montblack]

("Darrel Toepfer" wrote)
> Wasn't meant for usenet, sent a kill request in its regard, that wasn't
> honored by the ISP...


If it was an "unsend" "unsend" that got away from you, how does a kill
request work? Have many people used this service/feature?

ISTM that a kill request would need to be sent AND processed in the blink of
an eye for it to catch an "unsend" "unsend."

My posts mostly show up, back on my machine, rather quickly after I send
them. Sometimes not so quick. Once in a while it's almost instantaneous.
Sync All ..."wow, there's my post." That's rare, but it happens.


Montblack

[Peter Duniho]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Darrel Toepfer" wrote)
>> Wasn't meant for usenet, sent a kill request in its regard, that wasn't
>> honored by the ISP...
>
> If it was an "unsend" "unsend" that got away from you, how does a kill
> request work? Have many people used this service/feature?
>
> ISTM that a kill request would need to be sent AND processed in the blink
> of
> an eye for it to catch an "unsend" "unsend."

Usenet supports a device known as a "cancel post". It's similar to the
original post, but includes information telling the receiving server to
remove the original post. Yes, when it's used there's a brief period during
which the original post is still visible, until the cancel post catches up
to it. But once the cancel post has made it to the same servers that the
original post made it to, the original post disappears.

At least, that's the theory. In reality, Usenet has no security or
authentication protocols, and cancel posts are (were) regularly abused. A
person with a grudge or who disagreed with another person's viewpoint would
post a fraudulent cancel post, to remove that other person's post. It used
to be that there were so few users on Usenet that the few instances where
cancel posts were abused could be easily dealt with. But that hasn't been
true in a long time, and most ISPs simply ignore cancel posts altogether.

So, Darrel presumably tried to send a cancel post, but since nearly all ISPs
simply don't honor them anymore, it had no effect. It's possible that you
would have still seen the original post, even if it did have an effect,
depending on when he sent the original, when he sent the cancel, and when
you checked the latest messages on your news server. But in reality, it's
unusual these days for a cancel post to have any effect anywhere.

Pete

[Dave]

As Tom says, "it's in the box"..

And it's a good one.. NOTHING chincy about the "RAM"
mounts... :)

Would really be interested in your impressions about the
unit when you get it.

The manual is one of the best I have seen as well...


Dave


On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:48:31 +0100, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:

>Mike,
>
>> I will get one of those suction cup mounts
>> for the windscreen.
>>
>
>You'll be pulling it out of the carton the AM1000 came in - it's
>included.

[Mike 'Flyin'8']

When I get a chance to play around with it I will post a PIREP and
note my first impressions... Should be quite entertaining....

Thanks for everyone's input, very much appreciated!!


On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:20:36 -0400, Dave
> wrote:

>As Tom says, "it's in the box"..
>
> And it's a good one.. NOTHING chincy about the "RAM"
>mounts... :)
>
> Would really be interested in your impressions about the
>unit when you get it.
>
> The manual is one of the best I have seen as well...
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:48:31 +0100, Thomas Borchert
> wrote:
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>> I will get one of those suction cup mounts
>>> for the windscreen.
>>>
>>
>>You'll be pulling it out of the carton the AM1000 came in - it's
>>included.


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Darrel Toepfer]

Montblack wrote:

> ("Darrel Toepfer" wrote)
>
>> Wasn't meant for usenet, sent a kill request in its regard, that wasn't
>> honored by the ISP...
>
> If it was an "unsend" "unsend" that got away from you, how does a kill
> request work? Have many people used this service/feature?

It removed it from the ISP server, but not fast enough for the rest of
the world...

Just does... Its typically a part of the newsreader...

> ISTM that a kill request would need to be sent AND processed in the
> blink of an eye for it to catch an "unsend" "unsend."

Apparently...