Greatest Number of Traps

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

Just curious....

Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier trap
landings? And what's his total number of traps?

WDA
VF-24 & VA-192



end

[niceguy]

It was never a competition!!
We did it because it was our job and duty.

"W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Just curious....
>
> Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier trap
> landings? And what's his total number of traps?
>
> WDA
> VF-24 & VA-192
>
>
>
> end
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Ed Rasimus]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:15:20 GMT, "Glenn Dowdy"
> wrote:

>
>"niceguy" > wrote in message
link.net...
>> It was never a competition!!
>> We did it because it was our job and duty.
>>
>And probably because you had nowhere else to land. The man asked a simple
>polite question: there exists/existed a naval aviator who had more carrier
>traps than anyone else; who was he and how many? No one is claiming he's the
>best/greatest/whatever; it's just a matter of stastitics, Mr. Anonymous.
>
>Glenn D.
>

It is an interesting question and worthy of a better response than
that offered by "niceguy"--which seems to be rendered oxymoronic by
the offering.

Having seen more than a few (hundred) naval aviatiors wearing various
"Centurion" patches, this old AF driver knows that logging lots of
traps was something that most guys were very proud of.

I only managed to ride through 3---two Phantom and one COD during a
visit to Forrestal. And, those were clear weather, bright sunshine,
calm seas in the Med. Wouldn't have liked to do it on a regular basis.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[John Miller]

The name of RADM James Flatley III has been mentioned in that regard. I
have no way of verifying it.

Here's the Tailhook Association's list of people with 1000 or more traps:
<http://www.tailhook.org/GrandClub.html>

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)

[Glenn Dowdy]

"niceguy" > wrote in message
link.net...
> It was never a competition!!
> We did it because it was our job and duty.
>
And probably because you had nowhere else to land. The man asked a simple
polite question: there exists/existed a naval aviator who had more carrier
traps than anyone else; who was he and how many? No one is claiming he's the
best/greatest/whatever; it's just a matter of stastitics, Mr. Anonymous.

Glenn D.

[Gord Beaman]

"niceguy" > wrote:

>It was never a competition!!
>We did it because it was our job and duty.
>

<snort> kinda full of yourself ain't you?...I'll bet your shorts
are covered with US flags, eh?...I'd be most surprised if you
ever got closer to an aircraft carrier than seeing one at anchor
in port.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Ogden Johnson III]

Gord Beaman > wrote:

>"niceguy" > wrote:

>>It was never a competition!!
>>We did it because it was our job and duty.

><snort> kinda full of yourself ain't you?...I'll bet your shorts
>are covered with US flags, eh?...I'd be most surprised if you
>ever got closer to an aircraft carrier than seeing one at anchor
>in port.

<snort>, aye. In 18 years spent on the care and feeding of Naval
Aviators [green variety] and their steeds, I learned one thing.
Every one of them would compete with every other one of them in
anything. The wise SNCO would stay out of the way as the free
eats were laid out at the SNCO club on Bosses Night Happy Hour -
to do otherwise was a guarantee of great bodily harm, if not
death during the mad dash of the pilots to be first at the
goodies. Of course bragging rights were attached to number of
traps, just like just about any other thing involved, either with
a given model of aircraft or aircraft in general, that a pilot
could brag about.

Whether it's Marion Carl and Joe Foss of the Cactus Air Force, or
those attending those Bosses Nights, Naval Aviators compete.
It's in their blood, or they never would have made it through
Pensacola.
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Mike Kanze]

Ed,

>Wouldn't have liked to do it on a regular basis.

Especially over the Gulf of Tonkin, night, low state, dancing deck, no
tanker airborne, dodging tstms and misguided attempts by rookie controllers
to marshal you over Hainan Island. <g>

--
Mike Kanze

"When we talk to God we are praying; when God talks to us, we are
schizophrenic."

- Lily Tomlin


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:15:20 GMT, "Glenn Dowdy"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"niceguy" > wrote in message
link.net...
>>> It was never a competition!!
>>> We did it because it was our job and duty.
>>>
>>And probably because you had nowhere else to land. The man asked a simple
>>polite question: there exists/existed a naval aviator who had more carrier
>>traps than anyone else; who was he and how many? No one is claiming he's
>>the
>>best/greatest/whatever; it's just a matter of stastitics, Mr. Anonymous.
>>
>>Glenn D.
>>
>
> It is an interesting question and worthy of a better response than
> that offered by "niceguy"--which seems to be rendered oxymoronic by
> the offering.
>
> Having seen more than a few (hundred) naval aviatiors wearing various
> "Centurion" patches, this old AF driver knows that logging lots of
> traps was something that most guys were very proud of.
>
> I only managed to ride through 3---two Phantom and one COD during a
> visit to Forrestal. And, those were clear weather, bright sunshine,
> calm seas in the Med. Wouldn't have liked to do it on a regular basis.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> www.thunderchief.org
> www.thundertales.blogspot.com

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

Thanks, John.

WDA



end

"John Miller" > wrote in message
...
> The name of RADM James Flatley III has been mentioned in that regard. I
> have no way of verifying it.
>
> Here's the Tailhook Association's list of people with 1000 or more traps:
> <http://www.tailhook.org/GrandClub.html>
>
> --
> John Miller
> email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)

[vincent p. norris]

><snort>, aye. In 18 years spent on the care and feeding of Naval
>Aviators [green variety] and their steeds.....

Very insightful post, OJ, but waaaay back in the oooold days, both
Navy and Marine pilots wore green.

Although I wore the more attractive shade of green, I thought the Navy
greens were damn good-looking, too. I gather a lot of Navy guys were
unhappy when they were phased out.

vince norris

[Leanne]

"> Although I wore the more attractive shade of green, I thought
the Navy
> greens were damn good-looking, too. I gather a lot of Navy
guys were
> unhappy when they were phased out.

That and the brown shoes.

Leanne

[MikeR]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> ><snort>, aye. In 18 years spent on the care and feeding of Naval
> >Aviators [green variety] and their steeds.....
>
> Very insightful post, OJ, but waaaay back in the oooold days, both
> Navy and Marine pilots wore green.
>
> Although I wore the more attractive shade of green, I thought the Navy
> greens were damn good-looking, too. I gather a lot of Navy guys were
> unhappy when they were phased out.
>
> vince norris

I wore Aviation Greens all the way up until 1998 when I retrired. I thought
they were still in the seabag today.

[Guy Alcala]

"W. D. Allen Sr." wrote:

> Thanks, John.
>
> WDA
>
>
>
> end
>
> "John Miller" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The name of RADM James Flatley III has been mentioned in that regard. I
> > have no way of verifying it.
> >
> > Here's the Tailhook Association's list of people with 1000 or more traps:
> > <http://www.tailhook.org/GrandClub.html>
> >
> > --
> > John Miller
> > email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)

Found via google, dated June 14th, 2002:

"Cmdr. Ted Carter has set a new record in naval aviation. He has made 1646
carrier landings, more than any other Navy officer in history."

Carter's an NFO, and he apparently hadn't stopped there. Full story here:

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=2065

Another site says that Flatley's total was 1,608. I suspect the Brits probably
have a few up there: anyone know what Eric Brown's total is?

Guy

[Doug \Woody\ and Erin Beal]

On 3/18/05 10:10 AM, in article , "John Miller"
> wrote:

> The name of RADM James Flatley III has been mentioned in that regard. I
> have no way of verifying it.
>
> Here's the Tailhook Association's list of people with 1000 or more traps:
> <http://www.tailhook.org/GrandClub.html>


A close look at that list reveals that CAPT Lites Leenhouts tops the list
with 1645 traps. Not surprising given his reputation (bagger).

--Woody

[John Miller]

Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal wrote:
> A close look at that list reveals that CAPT Lites Leenhouts tops the list
> with 1645 traps. Not surprising given his reputation (bagger).

Hey, good catch, Woody. And LCDR Arthur Critser (NFO) appears to be the
overall leader with 1,888 traps.

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)
Surplus (For sale or trade):
Tektronix 465B oscilloscope
New Fellowes leather brief/notebook case

[Phormer Phighter Phlyer]

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
> Just curious....
>
> Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier trap
> landings? And what's his total number of traps?
>
> WDA
> VF-24 & VA-192
>
>
>
> end

I hear Flatley's name with regard to this but I would think it would be
somebody during WWII, when they were flying everyday, for weeks on end,
2-3 times per day and multi tours onbaord the CV(E)s...as long as they
lived that long. Not sure if they did 'greeny boards' and trap counts
during WWII, I'm sure there were more important things to worry about
than what paddle's said.

[niceguy]

HUH?

"Glenn Dowdy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "niceguy" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>> It was never a competition!!
>> We did it because it was our job and duty.
>>
> And probably because you had nowhere else to land. The man asked a simple
> polite question: there exists/existed a naval aviator who had more carrier
> traps than anyone else; who was he and how many? No one is claiming he's
> the best/greatest/whatever; it's just a matter of stastitics, Mr.
> Anonymous.
>
> Glenn D.
>

[Ogden Johnson III]

vincent p. norris > wrote:

>><snort>, aye. In 18 years spent on the care and feeding of Naval
>>Aviators [green variety] and their steeds.....

>Very insightful post, OJ, but waaaay back in the oooold days, both
>Navy and Marine pilots wore green.
>
>Although I wore the more attractive shade of green, I thought the Navy
>greens were damn good-looking, too. I gather a lot of Navy guys were
>unhappy when they were phased out.

Why did you assume I was speaking uniforms, with that "green"?

While "blue" dollars pay for a lot of the USMC aviation toys, our
NAs/NFOs are *paid* with "green" dollars.

[Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Lynn in StLou]

W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
> Just curious....
>
> Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier trap
> landings? And what's his total number of traps?
>
> WDA
> VF-24 & VA-192
>
>
>
> end
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I recall a bit in The Hook a while back in which
this very question was addressed. It was a
British pilot, IIRC, but I do not recall his name.
Will sift through the back issues and see if I
can find it.

--
Lynn in StLou
REMOVETHIS anti-spam measure to reply

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:44:13 -0500, Ogden Johnson III
> wrote:

<snipped for brevity>

>[Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
>less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
>direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
>their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]

Can't answer directly or for all, but my son is at Camp Caldwell in
Iraq as part of the 278th RCT (TN National Guard). He was required to
execute a direct deposit form when he was activated. I have his POA
and am taking care of his affairs while he is gone; twice a month I
get the notice of direct deposit. He draws his "walking around" money
from an ATM.

While he was drilling he told me that he was requried to have an
account for payment of his monthly drill and AT pay.

The Days of Cash appear to be just a memory! ;-)

Bill Kambic

[MikeR]

"Ogden Johnson III" > wrote in message
...
> vincent p. norris > wrote:
>
> >><snort>, aye. In 18 years spent on the care and feeding of Naval
> >>Aviators [green variety] and their steeds.....
>
> >Very insightful post, OJ, but waaaay back in the oooold days, both
> >Navy and Marine pilots wore green.
> >
> >Although I wore the more attractive shade of green, I thought the Navy
> >greens were damn good-looking, too. I gather a lot of Navy guys were
> >unhappy when they were phased out.
>
> Why did you assume I was speaking uniforms, with that "green"?

Gee, I guess when you talk 'in riddles' maybe your intended meaning can get
lost.





>
> While "blue" dollars pay for a lot of the USMC aviation toys, our
> NAs/NFOs are *paid* with "green" dollars.
>
> [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
> less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
> direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
> their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]
> --
> OJ III
> [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[niceguy]

Mr Dowdy:
How many "traps" did you have?
I only had about 130, some in AFs on CVEs, most in S2s on CVs, CVAs, and
CVSs.
Ed

"Glenn Dowdy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "niceguy" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>> It was never a competition!!
>> We did it because it was our job and duty.
>>
> And probably because you had nowhere else to land. The man asked a simple
> polite question: there exists/existed a naval aviator who had more carrier
> traps than anyone else; who was he and how many? No one is claiming he's
> the best/greatest/whatever; it's just a matter of stastitics, Mr.
> Anonymous.
>
> Glenn D.
>

[John Miller]

Since the thread's dragged out a bit now, I wonder if I've got the
fewest of anyone here who has any traps at all, with two (S2, on the
Lex, early '70s).

Anyone got just one?

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)

[vincent p. norris]

>Since the thread's dragged out a bit now, I wonder if I've got the
>fewest of anyone here who has any traps at all, with two (S2, on the
>Lex, early '70s).

Didn't you have to CQ in flight training? When I was at Pensacola,
1049-50, the last phase in Basic (before going to Corpus for
Advanced), was CQ, which ended with 6 traps aboard USS Wright or
Cabot. That was in SNJs, in those days.

vince norris

[Allen]

In article >,
vincent p. norris > wrote:

> >Since the thread's dragged out a bit now, I wonder if I've got the
> >fewest of anyone here who has any traps at all, with two (S2, on the
> >Lex, early '70s).
>
> Didn't you have to CQ in flight training? When I was at Pensacola,
> 1049-50, the last phase in Basic (before going to Corpus for
> Advanced), was CQ, which ended with 6 traps aboard USS Wright or
> Cabot. That was in SNJs, in those days.
>
> vince norris

1049? Man Vince, I knew you were my elder but wow! ;)

Allen

[John Miller]

vincent p. norris wrote:
>
> Didn't you have to CQ in flight training?

Naval Aviators did. I was a PAO (and a civilian pilot.)

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)

[Guy Alcala]

Phormer Phighter Phlyer wrote:

> W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
> > Just curious....
> >
> > Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier trap
> > landings? And what's his total number of traps?
> >
> > WDA
> > VF-24 & VA-192
> >
> >
> >
> > end
>
> I hear Flatley's name with regard to this but I would think it would be
> somebody during WWII, when they were flying everyday, for weeks on end,
> 2-3 times per day and multi tours onbaord the CV(E)s...as long as they
> lived that long. Not sure if they did 'greeny boards' and trap counts
> during WWII, I'm sure there were more important things to worry about
> than what paddle's said.

I doubt it. The average sortie time tended to be a lot longer with props
than jets. Besides, UNREP was still in its infancy. IIRR, prior to late
1944 or early 1945 only fuel had been transferred at sea. Transferring
ordnance, spares and other supplies under way appeared relatively late in
the war.

Guy

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 06:37:50 -0500, Allen >
wrote:

>In article >,
> vincent p. norris > wrote:
>
>> >Since the thread's dragged out a bit now, I wonder if I've got the
>> >fewest of anyone here who has any traps at all, with two (S2, on the
>> >Lex, early '70s).
>>
>> Didn't you have to CQ in flight training? When I was at Pensacola,
>> 1049-50, the last phase in Basic (before going to Corpus for
>> Advanced), was CQ, which ended with 6 traps aboard USS Wright or
>> Cabot. That was in SNJs, in those days.
>>
>> vince norris
>
>1049? Man Vince, I knew you were my elder but wow! ;)

Preparing to support the invasion force of William the *******, no
doubt!!!!! ;-)

Bill Kambic

[Glenn Dowdy]

"niceguy" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Mr Dowdy:
> How many "traps" did you have?

Not a single one. You guys are nuts. I don't think that was the issue, nor
did I indicate that you weren't a naval aviator. Just a bit mean in your
answer, and it appears that others here felt the same way.

> I only had about 130, some in AFs on CVEs, most in S2s on CVs, CVAs, and
> CVSs.

How many jumps from an airplane in flight? I only had six, mostly from C141s
but the last one from a C-130. One night jump.

Been married twice, though.

Glenn D.

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
Ogden Johnson III > writes:

> [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
> less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
> direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
> their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]

Funny that you should bring that up... I've just been working on a
piece of that, actually. It's more than just ATMs - Some ships are
part of NavyCash, which reduces the demand for hard money by
substituting programmable "Smart Cards" for geedunks & stamps & Mess
Dues and such. You can transfer funds from your Ship's Account, using
something like an ATM, and use the card in the Coke Machines & such.
The accounting for the DISBOs is a lot easier, and so are the
logistics. It seems that when they empty the cash boxes in the Coke
Machines every month, they're hauling about 1,000# of quarters around
the ship. (For a CV or LPH-sized ship). So, anyway, the effort is
there to eliminate hard cash on ships. (The cards can also be used as
Debit Cards ashore).

--
Pete Stickney

Without data, all you have are opinions

[vincent p. norris]

>>> Didn't you have to CQ in flight training? When I was at Pensacola,
>>> 1049-50
>>
>>1049? Man Vince, I knew you were my elder but wow! ;)
>
>Preparing to support the invasion force of William the *******, no
>doubt!!!!! ;-)

Damn! That's the second time I've done that in just a couple of
weeks!

But with a name like Norris, derived (I'm told) from "Norseman," I
suppose I would have been on Bill's side, not Harry's.

vince norris

[Red Rider]

"Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Ogden Johnson III > writes:
>
> > [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
> > less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
> > direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
> > their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]
>
> Funny that you should bring that up... I've just been working on a
> piece of that, actually. It's more than just ATMs - Some ships are
> part of NavyCash, which reduces the demand for hard money by
> substituting programmable "Smart Cards" for geedunks & stamps & Mess
> Dues and such. You can transfer funds from your Ship's Account, using
> something like an ATM, and use the card in the Coke Machines & such.
> The accounting for the DISBOs is a lot easier, and so are the
> logistics. It seems that when they empty the cash boxes in the Coke
> Machines every month, they're hauling about 1,000# of quarters around
> the ship. (For a CV or LPH-sized ship). So, anyway, the effort is
> there to eliminate hard cash on ships. (The cards can also be used as
> Debit Cards ashore).
>
> --
> Pete Stickney
>
> Without data, all you have are opinions

Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid in
cash every other Friday?

As far as the greatest number of traps, I wonder who had the most combat
traps? For the life of me (getting old I guess) I can't remember the name of
the A-4 jock from Vietnam era who had something like 750 "green ink" entries
in his log book. Heck I think he retired as an admiral too.

Red Rider

[Bob]

I know one person with just one trap. Major (USAF) Ron Markey. USS
Midway, circa 1970 in an S-2 with me in the right seat. Illegal but
factual. Now it can be told.

[nafod40]

John Miller wrote:
> Since the thread's dragged out a bit now, I wonder if I've got the
> fewest of anyone here who has any traps at all, with two (S2, on the
> Lex, early '70s).
>
> Anyone got just one?

We had an AI in our squadron that we took up for a single trap. We took
a hundred trap patch and sewed a decimal point after the "1" and gave it
to him.

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Red Rider" > wrote:

>"Peter Stickney" > wrote:

>> Ogden Johnson III > writes:

>> > [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
>> > less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
>> > direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
>> > their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]

[Snip Peter's informative stuff on "NavyCash". Now that you
mentioned that, I think that's what they were showing on that
cable show - in addition to the presence of ATMs (presumably
necessary to get "RealCash" to change into local currency for
liberty during port calls. ;->) Thanks for the info, Peter.]

>Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid in
>cash every other Friday?

Went the whole gamut, save once-a-month cash pay days, from
1st/15th of the month [or 5th/20th, it varied depending on base]
cash pay days, to the same days but checks, to another mix
between the 1/15 (or 5/20) checks and every other week checks.
Which, when instituted, got a lot of complaints that "they
reduced my pay" from people who couldn't figure out that pay
divided into 24 paydays a year might be somewhat less, in
individual increments, when the same pay is split between 26 pay
days a year. Sigh.

Some of the doggies from my HS days who were drafted when I
enlisted were still paid under the old Army "once a month"
scheme. AFAIK, the Naval Service had gone semi-monthly totally
by that time [1961]. At least that was my experience.
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Mike Weeks]

Lynn in StLou wrote:
> W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
> > Just curious....
> >
> > Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier
trap
> > landings? And what's his total number of traps?

> I recall a bit in The Hook a while back in which
> this very question was addressed. It was a
> British pilot, IIRC, but I do not recall his name.
> Will sift through the back issues and see if I
> can find it.

That has a ring to it -- IIRC, it was a RN fella by the name of Brown.

As for the USN, there was awhile back an article in The Hook which
addressed that subject also -- don't recall it being Flatley.

Mike

[Red Rider]

"Ogden Johnson III" > wrote in message
...
> "Red Rider" > wrote:

SNIP! SNIP!
> >Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid
in
> >cash every other Friday?
>
> Went the whole gamut, save once-a-month cash pay days, from
> 1st/15th of the month [or 5th/20th, it varied depending on base]
> cash pay days, to the same days but checks, to another mix
> between the 1/15 (or 5/20) checks and every other week checks.
> Which, when instituted, got a lot of complaints that "they
> reduced my pay" from people who couldn't figure out that pay
> divided into 24 paydays a year might be somewhat less, in
> individual increments, when the same pay is split between 26 pay
> days a year. Sigh.
>
> Some of the doggies from my HS days who were drafted when I
> enlisted were still paid under the old Army "once a month"
> scheme. AFAIK, the Naval Service had gone semi-monthly totally
> by that time [1961]. At least that was my experience.
> --
> OJ III

To the best of my knowledge the Naval Services started switching from every
other Friday, cash Paydays about 1960. The switch went by Naval/MC
districts. It started in the NE (1st Naval/MC District????). They would go
first to checks every other Friday then to Checks twice a month , usually
the 1st/15th. I managed to keep getting transferred ahead of the change,
until they finally caught me in WestPac. As far as I know WestPac was the
last to change over. When we left Japan in late '64 going south they
"ENCOURAGED" everyone to draw the minimum cash needed for the month on the
1st and to take the rest either in a check or deposit to the saving program
that they had for all military in and around Vietnam and Vietnam waters. The
15th payday was check or saving deposit only. Interest accumulated tax free
of course if you were in a combat zone, that is if you got shot at or not,
and also if your unit was moving in and out of a combat zone. At that time I
know that the Marines rotated most of their units (Hawk Missile Batteries)
out of Vietnam for 30-45 days at a time and then returned them. Naval units
ashore such as the Seabees, NSA, Patrol Sq, Beachmasters, Medical, Liaison,
etc.did likewise, although by sections instead of whole units.

Yes Virginia, in those days you didn't get combat pay unless you were shot
at, and when you returned to the ship, you must swear to, (not at) the
AdminO. Hummmm? when did that change? 1 Jan 66? Polaroid's of tracers flying
over the Plane of Jars worked well, until the AdminO got wise. Then we
started flying a serious photo mission
<grin> for a few days, until new pictures were taken. I just remembered, we
couldn't the "classified" photo's out of Intel to show the AdminO because he
didn't "have a need to know". I wonder if things are still as f***ed up?. At
that time anything that showed any kind of military activity was classified.

[Mike Kanze]

Red,

>I wonder who had the most combat traps?

Would these include being yelled at by the Boss or enduring squirrelly calls
by LSOs? <g>

--
Mike Kanze

"You're never too old to become younger."

- Mae West


"Red Rider" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Ogden Johnson III > writes:
>>
>> > [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
>> > less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
>> > direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
>> > their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]
>>
>> Funny that you should bring that up... I've just been working on a
>> piece of that, actually. It's more than just ATMs - Some ships are
>> part of NavyCash, which reduces the demand for hard money by
>> substituting programmable "Smart Cards" for geedunks & stamps & Mess
>> Dues and such. You can transfer funds from your Ship's Account, using
>> something like an ATM, and use the card in the Coke Machines & such.
>> The accounting for the DISBOs is a lot easier, and so are the
>> logistics. It seems that when they empty the cash boxes in the Coke
>> Machines every month, they're hauling about 1,000# of quarters around
>> the ship. (For a CV or LPH-sized ship). So, anyway, the effort is
>> there to eliminate hard cash on ships. (The cards can also be used as
>> Debit Cards ashore).
>>
>> --
>> Pete Stickney
>>
>> Without data, all you have are opinions
>
> Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid
> in
> cash every other Friday?
>
> As far as the greatest number of traps, I wonder who had the most combat
> traps? For the life of me (getting old I guess) I can't remember the name
> of
> the A-4 jock from Vietnam era who had something like 750 "green ink"
> entries
> in his log book. Heck I think he retired as an admiral too.
>
> Red Rider
>
>

[Mike Kanze]

Red,

>Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid in
>cash every other Friday?

Still very common into the late 1960s. It's how I got my liberty $$ while on
3rd Class Midshipman cruise (on a CruDesPac tin can) in 1966.

Somewhat related sidebar: When CORAL MARU returned from its 1973 WestPac
cruise, we happened to find ourselves approaching the International Date
Line the evening of payday. Of course after crossing the Line, the "next"
day was still the "same" day on the calendar. Guys were joking that it was
payday again, and when was pay call going to be piped?

---
Mike Kanze

"You're never too old to become younger."

- Mae West


"Red Rider" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Ogden Johnson III > writes:
>>
>> > [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
>> > less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
>> > direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
>> > their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]
>>
>> Funny that you should bring that up... I've just been working on a
>> piece of that, actually. It's more than just ATMs - Some ships are
>> part of NavyCash, which reduces the demand for hard money by
>> substituting programmable "Smart Cards" for geedunks & stamps & Mess
>> Dues and such. You can transfer funds from your Ship's Account, using
>> something like an ATM, and use the card in the Coke Machines & such.
>> The accounting for the DISBOs is a lot easier, and so are the
>> logistics. It seems that when they empty the cash boxes in the Coke
>> Machines every month, they're hauling about 1,000# of quarters around
>> the ship. (For a CV or LPH-sized ship). So, anyway, the effort is
>> there to eliminate hard cash on ships. (The cards can also be used as
>> Debit Cards ashore).
>>
>> --
>> Pete Stickney
>>
>> Without data, all you have are opinions
>
> Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid
> in
> cash every other Friday?
>
> As far as the greatest number of traps, I wonder who had the most combat
> traps? For the life of me (getting old I guess) I can't remember the name
> of
> the A-4 jock from Vietnam era who had something like 750 "green ink"
> entries
> in his log book. Heck I think he retired as an admiral too.
>
> Red Rider
>
>

[John Weiss]

"Red Rider" > wrote...
>
> Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid
> in
> cash every other Friday?

Yes...

[Keith W]

"Mike Weeks" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Lynn in StLou wrote:
>> W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
>> > Just curious....
>> >
>> > Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier
> trap
>> > landings? And what's his total number of traps?
>
>> I recall a bit in The Hook a while back in which
>> this very question was addressed. It was a
>> British pilot, IIRC, but I do not recall his name.
>> Will sift through the back issues and see if I
>> can find it.
>
> That has a ring to it -- IIRC, it was a RN fella by the name of Brown.
>

Presumably that would be Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown RN who
had a long career after WW2 as a test pilot during which
he flew not only most allied aircraft but also most of the
German and Soviet types as well as being involved in
the early history of flying jets off carriers and the development
of the angled flight deck.

Against all the odds he's still very much alive and well and
gives frequent talks on his career.

Keith

[vincent p. norris]

>I know one person with just one trap. Major (USAF) Ron Markey. USS
>Midway, circa 1970 in an S-2 with me in the right seat. Illegal but
>factual. Now it can be told.

Did he shoot the approach, and if so, without any FCLPs? Or did you do
it from the right seat?

The ball had replaced the paddles by then, right?

vince

[Gord Beaman]

"Red Rider" > wrote:

>
>"Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> Ogden Johnson III > writes:
>>
>> > [Does anybody in the US military still get paid with checks [much
>> > less {gasp!!!!!!} cash] nowadays, or has DoD gone mandatory
>> > direct deposit? Saw on a recent cable show on carriers that all
>> > their crew's cash comes out of an ATM.]
>>
>> Funny that you should bring that up... I've just been working on a
>> piece of that, actually. It's more than just ATMs - Some ships are
>> part of NavyCash, which reduces the demand for hard money by
>> substituting programmable "Smart Cards" for geedunks & stamps & Mess
>> Dues and such. You can transfer funds from your Ship's Account, using
>> something like an ATM, and use the card in the Coke Machines & such.
>> The accounting for the DISBOs is a lot easier, and so are the
>> logistics. It seems that when they empty the cash boxes in the Coke
>> Machines every month, they're hauling about 1,000# of quarters around
>> the ship. (For a CV or LPH-sized ship). So, anyway, the effort is
>> there to eliminate hard cash on ships. (The cards can also be used as
>> Debit Cards ashore).
>>
>> --
>> Pete Stickney
>>
>> Without data, all you have are opinions
>
>Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid in
>cash every other Friday?
>
>As far as the greatest number of traps, I wonder who had the most combat
>traps? For the life of me (getting old I guess) I can't remember the name of
>the A-4 jock from Vietnam era who had something like 750 "green ink" entries
>in his log book. Heck I think he retired as an admiral too.
>
>Red Rider
>
Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
(two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry.

We'd march smartly the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
admit...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Keith W" > writes:
>
> "Mike Weeks" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Lynn in StLou wrote:
>>> W. D. Allen Sr. wrote:
>>> > Just curious....
>>> >
>>> > Who in the Navy holds the record for greatest number of carrier
>> trap
>>> > landings? And what's his total number of traps?
>>
>>> I recall a bit in The Hook a while back in which
>>> this very question was addressed. It was a
>>> British pilot, IIRC, but I do not recall his name.
>>> Will sift through the back issues and see if I
>>> can find it.
>>
>> That has a ring to it -- IIRC, it was a RN fella by the name of Brown.
>>
>
> Presumably that would be Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown RN who
> had a long career after WW2 as a test pilot during which
> he flew not only most allied aircraft but also most of the
> German and Soviet types as well as being involved in
> the early history of flying jets off carriers and the development
> of the angled flight deck.

For values of "very early history equalling" "the first bloke to do
it".

--
Pete Stickney

Without data, all you have are opinions

[Jim]

Gord Beaman wrote:
>
> Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
> stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
> where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
> (two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
> couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry.
>
> We'd march smartly the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
> and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
> course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
> 'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
> admit...
> --
>
> -Gord.
> (use gordon in email)

Can't forget a Navy variation of this. Sitting at the table in the
middle were the corpsmen. After getting the flu shot you got your pay!

[Bob McKellar]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Gord Beaman wrote:
>>
>> Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
>> stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
>> where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
>> (two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
>> couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry. We'd march smartly
>> the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
>> and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
>> course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
>> 'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
>> admit...
>> --
>>
>> -Gord.
>> (use gordon in email)
>
> Can't forget a Navy variation of this. Sitting at the table in the middle
> were the corpsmen. After getting the flu shot you got your pay!
>
And just around the corner in the passageway, the loan sharks and gamblers
collecting from their victims.

Bob McKellar, actual former disbursing officer from the days of cash

[Guy Alcala]

Peter Stickney wrote:

> In article >,
> "Keith W" > writes:

> Presumably that would be Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown RN who

> > had a long career after WW2 as a test pilot during which
> > he flew not only most allied aircraft but also most of the
> > German and Soviet types as well as being involved in
> > the early history of flying jets off carriers and the development
> > of the angled flight deck.
>
> For values of "very early history equalling" "the first bloke to do
> it".

Land on too. A Vampire, IIRR. And then he did the Flexible deck trials. Oh,
and he was one of the very earliest qualified helo pilots in the RN, who did
a lot of early research on vortex ring state in the Sikorsky R-4. IIRR, he
and another RN pilot's initial instruction on flying helos consisted of being
handed the manual for the R-4 by a US Master Sergeant, who then smartly
retired to a safe distance. Come to think of it, ISTR that the other pilot
was Alan Bristow. Brown also deck-landed a P-39, just because he wanted to.
Oh, and he holds the record for flying the most different types of a/c, 487
(that was his total as of 1988). Honorary fellow of the SETP (boy, is that a
list of international aviation royalty, past and present. See:
http://www.setp.org/HTML/Personnel/Fellows.htm )

Fellow and past president of the Royal Aeronautical Society, etc. He's a
small man in physical stature, but not in any other way.

Guy

[Red Rider]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >Is there anyone (other than Vincent P. Norris) that remembers being paid
in
> >cash every other Friday?
>
> Well, he doesn't remember it, either! I presume I was, while an
> enlisted man; and I may have been, while a Midshipman in flight
> training; it's just too long ago to remember.
>
> I do recall getting exactly $21 for the first month I was in. Next
> month, I got a "raise" to $50.
>
> I do remember, just once, being Squadron Duty Officer on enlisted pay
> day, and having to go to Wing, get a big bag of money, and pass it
> out.
> >
> > For the life of me (getting old I guess) I can't remember the name
.......
>
> Ha! Glad it ain't just me!
>
> vince norris

Actually there is nothing wrong with out memories. We have just filled out
brains to capacity with more important things.

Red

[Ken Duffey]

Guy Alcala wrote:

> Peter Stickney wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>> "Keith W" > writes:
>
>
>>Presumably that would be Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown RN who
>
>
>>>had a long career after WW2 as a test pilot during which
>>>he flew not only most allied aircraft but also most of the
>>>German and Soviet types as well as being involved in
>>>the early history of flying jets off carriers and the development
>>>of the angled flight deck.
>>
>>For values of "very early history equalling" "the first bloke to do
>>it".
>
>
> Land on too. A Vampire, IIRR. And then he did the Flexible deck trials. Oh,
> and he was one of the very earliest qualified helo pilots in the RN, who did
> a lot of early research on vortex ring state in the Sikorsky R-4. IIRR, he
> and another RN pilot's initial instruction on flying helos consisted of being
> handed the manual for the R-4 by a US Master Sergeant, who then smartly
> retired to a safe distance. Come to think of it, ISTR that the other pilot
> was Alan Bristow. Brown also deck-landed a P-39, just because he wanted to.
> Oh, and he holds the record for flying the most different types of a/c, 487
> (that was his total as of 1988). Honorary fellow of the SETP (boy, is that a
> list of international aviation royalty, past and present. See:
> http://www.setp.org/HTML/Personnel/Fellows.htm )
>
> Fellow and past president of the Royal Aeronautical Society, etc. He's a
> small man in physical stature, but not in any other way.
>
> Guy
>

He gave a talk at a dinner I once attended - some fascinating tales he told.

Including the time he was testing the giant six-engined BV-222 flying
boat. He read the manuals (he spoke German) and familiarised himself
with the systems etc. He had some German flight engineers aboard.

The flight took place on a lake - and as the machine gathered speed, it
got onto the step and hurtled towards the edge of the lake.

As he tried to ease back on the stick, he found it would not budge - and
he was rapidly running out of lake.

Fortunately he was able to close the throttles - and bring the machine
to a halt.

It transpires that the Germans had tried to sabotage the flight - by
leaving the control locks in place !!

He checked everything himself after that.

He told us that the one aircraft he regretted never being able to fly
was the Messerschmitt Me-163. The British Air Ministry would not
sanction a test flight - because it was considered too dangerous!

Ken

[Red Rider]

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Gord Beaman wrote:
> >
> > Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
> > stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
> > where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
> > (two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
> > couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry.
> >
> > We'd march smartly the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
> > and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
> > course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
> > 'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
> > admit...
> > --
> >
> > -Gord.
> > (use gordon in email)
>
> Can't forget a Navy variation of this. Sitting at the table in the
> middle were the corpsmen. After getting the flu shot you got your pay!
>

You forgot about the guy selling Navy Relief Tickets, or the one collecting
for United Way or something else.

For something different. In late 65 I won an award of a ground tour (6mo's
training and 12 mo's in Vietnam) with the Marines in ANGLCO
(AirNavalGunfireLiaisonCompany). While training at Camp Lejeune NC, I
noticed something unique about their way of conducting a pay day. Of course
they had the standard pay officer, also the corpsman checking shot records,
pay guard, etc. but the 1st Sgt. was seated next to the pay officer.
Everytime a man that had a fine from NJP (Marines call it Office Hours) the
1st Sgt would announce the amount of the fine in a loud voice. The pay
officer would loudly count out the money to the Marine. Then the Marine had
to pay the fine to the 1st Sgt, who would then announce again in a loud
voice that he had received a payment of $XXX from "so-in-so". And that this
was whatever payment of whatever total fine that "so-in-so" had received for
his crime which was __________! But it wasn't over. The 1st Sgt would then
turn to the pay officer and announce that he had collected the fine for etc.
from "so-in-so" for doing "whatever" and would then announce that this was
payment X of X payments etc. Then the pay officer would tell the 1st Sgt
that on behalf of the Marine Corps, the Dept of the Navy, the Sec of
Defense, the President, and the people of the United States of America etc.
that he accepted payment X of X payments for the crime of X committed by
'so-in-so.

Everyone enjoyed the show, except the individual paying the fine.

Red

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Red Rider" > wrote:

>(AirNavalGunfireLiaisonCompany). While training at Camp Lejeune NC, I
>noticed something unique about their way of conducting a pay day. Of course
>they had the standard pay officer, also the corpsman checking shot records,
>pay guard, etc. but the 1st Sgt. was seated next to the pay officer.
>Everytime a man that had a fine from NJP (Marines call it Office Hours) the
>1st Sgt would announce the amount of the fine in a loud voice. The pay
>officer would loudly count out the money to the Marine. Then the Marine had
>to pay the fine to the 1st Sgt, who would then announce again in a loud
>voice that he had received a payment of $XXX from "so-in-so". And that this
>was whatever payment of whatever total fine that "so-in-so" had received for
>his crime which was __________! But it wasn't over. The 1st Sgt would then
>turn to the pay officer and announce that he had collected the fine for etc.
>from "so-in-so" for doing "whatever" and would then announce that this was
>payment X of X payments etc. Then the pay officer would tell the 1st Sgt
>that on behalf of the Marine Corps, the Dept of the Navy, the Sec of
>Defense, the President, and the people of the United States of America etc.
>that he accepted payment X of X payments for the crime of X committed by
>'so-in-so.
>
>Everyone enjoyed the show, except the individual paying the fine.

Wasn't a USMC-wide practice, nor, as of 1961 - 1962, a CLNC or
2dMarDiv-wide practice. OTOH, there was nothing in those days
precluding a CO, company, battalion, or even regimental, from
establishing such a practice. Dunno who was training you
[2ndANGLICO?], but it doesn't surprise me. Every unit I was ever
in did different things as "standard" on cash pay days. Some,
such as the periodic shot-card checks, Navy Relief/CFC
"encouragements", carried over to the check era. Periodically,
instead of your Platoon Sergeant or Shop NCOIC in aviation
handing you your paycheck on the 5th/20th, the whole unit would
muster along with a battery of corpsmen, your health/shot records
at their side, ready to administer anything up to and including
GOK what. Or to be lectured by the poor SLJO stuck with running
the CFC campaign.
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Mike Kanze]

OJ,

This turn of thread reminds me of what Gunny Martin told all of us
Midshipmen before we left our NROTC unit for summer cruise.

There are three documents your must NEVER, under any circumstances, let out
of your sight or secure possession until you reach your next duty station:

* Your pay record.
* Your shot card.
* Your Shellback certificate (if you had one).

--
Mike Kanze

"You're never too old to become younger."

- Mae West


"Ogden Johnson III" > wrote in message
...
> "Red Rider" > wrote:
>
>>(AirNavalGunfireLiaisonCompany). While training at Camp Lejeune NC, I
>>noticed something unique about their way of conducting a pay day. Of
>>course
>>they had the standard pay officer, also the corpsman checking shot
>>records,
>>pay guard, etc. but the 1st Sgt. was seated next to the pay officer.
>>Everytime a man that had a fine from NJP (Marines call it Office Hours)
>>the
>>1st Sgt would announce the amount of the fine in a loud voice. The pay
>>officer would loudly count out the money to the Marine. Then the Marine
>>had
>>to pay the fine to the 1st Sgt, who would then announce again in a loud
>>voice that he had received a payment of $XXX from "so-in-so". And that
>>this
>>was whatever payment of whatever total fine that "so-in-so" had received
>>for
>>his crime which was __________! But it wasn't over. The 1st Sgt would then
>>turn to the pay officer and announce that he had collected the fine for
>>etc.
>>from "so-in-so" for doing "whatever" and would then announce that this
>>was
>>payment X of X payments etc. Then the pay officer would tell the 1st Sgt
>>that on behalf of the Marine Corps, the Dept of the Navy, the Sec of
>>Defense, the President, and the people of the United States of America
>>etc.
>>that he accepted payment X of X payments for the crime of X committed by
>>'so-in-so.
>>
>>Everyone enjoyed the show, except the individual paying the fine.
>
> Wasn't a USMC-wide practice, nor, as of 1961 - 1962, a CLNC or
> 2dMarDiv-wide practice. OTOH, there was nothing in those days
> precluding a CO, company, battalion, or even regimental, from
> establishing such a practice. Dunno who was training you
> [2ndANGLICO?], but it doesn't surprise me. Every unit I was ever
> in did different things as "standard" on cash pay days. Some,
> such as the periodic shot-card checks, Navy Relief/CFC
> "encouragements", carried over to the check era. Periodically,
> instead of your Platoon Sergeant or Shop NCOIC in aviation
> handing you your paycheck on the 5th/20th, the whole unit would
> muster along with a battery of corpsmen, your health/shot records
> at their side, ready to administer anything up to and including
> GOK what. Or to be lectured by the poor SLJO stuck with running
> the CFC campaign.
> --
> OJ III
> [Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
> Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[Jim]

Mike Kanze wrote:
> OJ,
>
> This turn of thread reminds me of what Gunny Martin told all of us
> Midshipmen before we left our NROTC unit for summer cruise.
>
> There are three documents your must NEVER, under any circumstances, let out
> of your sight or secure possession until you reach your next duty station:
>
>
> * Your Shellback certificate (if you had one).*<

How many can equate to this? My second crossing was in many ways worse
than the first. Unlike the polliwogs I spent hours on the flight deck.
My sunburn lasted longer than their welts.

[Mike Kanze]

Much depends on the ratio of wogs to Shellbacks.

CORAL MARU's 1975 cruise took the ship across the line for the first time in
several years. Thus there weren't as many Shellbacks aboard who could mete
out the requisite rites as circumstances might otherwise have demanded. The
wogs suffered relatively little.

But on the following cruise, and with a high percentage of Shellbacks
aboard...

--
Mike Kanze (still a wog)

"You're never too old to become younger."

- Mae West


"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Kanze wrote:
>> OJ,
>>
>> This turn of thread reminds me of what Gunny Martin told all of us
>> Midshipmen before we left our NROTC unit for summer cruise.
>>
>> There are three documents your must NEVER, under any circumstances, let
>> out of your sight or secure possession until you reach your next duty
>> station:
>>
>>
>> * Your Shellback certificate (if you had one).*<
>
> How many can equate to this? My second crossing was in many ways worse
> than the first. Unlike the polliwogs I spent hours on the flight deck. My
> sunburn lasted longer than their welts.
>
>
>
>
>

[Dave in San Diego]

"Bob McKellar" > wrote in
:

>
> "Jim" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Gord Beaman wrote:
>>>
>>> Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
>>> stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
>>> where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
>>> (two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
>>> couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry. We'd march
>>> smartly the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
>>> and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
>>> course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
>>> 'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
>>> admit...
>>> --
>>>
>>> -Gord.
>>> (use gordon in email)
>>
>> Can't forget a Navy variation of this. Sitting at the table in the
>> middle were the corpsmen. After getting the flu shot you got your
>> pay!
>>
> And just around the corner in the passageway, the loan sharks and
> gamblers collecting from their victims.
>
> Bob McKellar, actual former disbursing officer from the days of cash

Got to be a pay guard for cash paydays in Japan in the mid-70s. One time
the pay officer told me I didn't need to put the clip in the '45, and I
told him he needed to find a new pay guard.

Dave in San Diego

[Dave in San Diego]

Jim > wrote in :

> Mike Kanze wrote:
>> OJ,
>>
>> This turn of thread reminds me of what Gunny Martin told all of us
>> Midshipmen before we left our NROTC unit for summer cruise.
>>
>> There are three documents your must NEVER, under any circumstances,
>> let out of your sight or secure possession until you reach your next
>> duty station:
>>
>>
>> * Your Shellback certificate (if you had one).*<
>
> How many can equate to this? My second crossing was in many ways
> worse than the first. Unlike the polliwogs I spent hours on the
> flight deck.
> My sunburn lasted longer than their welts.

Amen. My first one was overcast and almost rainy, actually pretty
comfortable in August heading for the IO. Second time was a scorcher!

Dave in San Diego

[Yofuri]

Dave in San Diego wrote:
> "Bob McKellar" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>"Jim" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Gord Beaman wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
>>>>stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
>>>>where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
>>>>(two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
>>>>couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry. We'd march
>>>>smartly the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
>>>>and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
>>>>course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
>>>>'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
>>>>admit...
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>-Gord.
>>>>(use gordon in email)
>>>
>>>Can't forget a Navy variation of this. Sitting at the table in the
>>>middle were the corpsmen. After getting the flu shot you got your
>>>pay!
>>>
>>
>>And just around the corner in the passageway, the loan sharks and
>>gamblers collecting from their victims.
>>
>>Bob McKellar, actual former disbursing officer from the days of cash
>
>
> Got to be a pay guard for cash paydays in Japan in the mid-70s. One time
> the pay officer told me I didn't need to put the clip in the '45, and I
> told him he needed to find a new pay guard.
>
> Dave in San Diego

Don't tell me I'm the only one old enough to remember short-arm
inspections every payday. Also, learning to salute and request
permission to leave the ship while displaying ID card, liberty card, bar
of hotel soap and pack of rubbers to indicate readiness to go ashore.

Rick

[Gord Beaman]

Yofuri > wrote:

>Dave in San Diego wrote:
>> "Bob McKellar" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>"Jim" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Gord Beaman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well yes, I certainly do...I remember that they'd set up ropes on
>>>>>stanchions leading up to a table set out on the hangar floor
>>>>>where the 'Paymaster' (usually a captain) sat with his helpers
>>>>>(two or three airmen, corporals usually) with ledgers etc, and a
>>>>>couple of Military Police overlooking all and sundry. We'd march
>>>>>smartly the last few feet, salute, state our name rank
>>>>>and serial number, be presented with our stipend (in cash of
>>>>>course) sign for it, salute and bog off smartly. T'was called
>>>>>'Pay Parade' and everyone loved it. Been a long time I must
>>>>>admit...
>>>>>--
>>>>>
>>>>>-Gord.
>>>>>(use gordon in email)
>>>>
>>>>Can't forget a Navy variation of this. Sitting at the table in the
>>>>middle were the corpsmen. After getting the flu shot you got your
>>>>pay!
>>>>
>>>
>>>And just around the corner in the passageway, the loan sharks and
>>>gamblers collecting from their victims.
>>>
>>>Bob McKellar, actual former disbursing officer from the days of cash
>>
>>
>> Got to be a pay guard for cash paydays in Japan in the mid-70s. One time
>> the pay officer told me I didn't need to put the clip in the '45, and I
>> told him he needed to find a new pay guard.
>>
>> Dave in San Diego
>
>Don't tell me I'm the only one old enough to remember short-arm
>inspections every payday. Also, learning to salute and request
>permission to leave the ship while displaying ID card, liberty card, bar
>of hotel soap and pack of rubbers to indicate readiness to go ashore.
>
>Rick
>
You poor buggers...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[w4okw]

> I wore Aviation Greens all the way up until 1998 when I retrired. I
> thought
> they were still in the seabag today.
>
They were the best! I wore greens at my retirement ceremony.

Tom Clarke
CDR USN(Ret)
Herk Driver, but I did get 15 traps in the T-28 and S-2
back in the day when all Naval Aviators hit the boat during flight training.
The good old daze!

[Bob]

I ran him through a few FCLPs and he flew it from the left seat. Made
a fair approach considering his shakey knees.

[Bob]

Yes, the ball, mirror type, replaced the paddles. About 1958 I think
on all cept the "Happy Valley". Coincident with the angled deck mods.
aka 27 Charlie.

[Bob]

If we are going to count RIOs, EWOs, BNs and passengers as somehow
having a "trap", the I guess President Bush would qualify with one on
the Lincoln. Not trying to disparage anyone but IMHO only the guy at
the stick "traps" all others "ride". Guys who flew two seat planes,
S-2s, S-3s, etc. didn't ever log traps from the right side. Why log a
trap for only non-pilots?

[Mike Kanze]

Bob,

Certainly no argument here, if "credit for the act" is the criterion.

But as a B/N I (or any other "rider") either enjoyed or suffered the same
consequences, albeit a microsecond later than the pilot due to the slight
setback of the B/N's seat.

--
Mike Kanze

"You're never too old to become younger."

- Mae West


"Bob" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> If we are going to count RIOs, EWOs, BNs and passengers as somehow
> having a "trap", the I guess President Bush would qualify with one on
> the Lincoln. Not trying to disparage anyone but IMHO only the guy at
> the stick "traps" all others "ride". Guys who flew two seat planes,
> S-2s, S-3s, etc. didn't ever log traps from the right side. Why log a
> trap for only non-pilots?
>

[John Miller]

Bob wrote:
> If we are going to count RIOs, EWOs, BNs and passengers as somehow
> having a "trap", the I guess President Bush would qualify with one on
> the Lincoln. Not trying to disparage anyone but IMHO only the guy at
> the stick "traps" all others "ride". Guys who flew two seat planes,
> S-2s, S-3s, etc. didn't ever log traps from the right side. Why log a
> trap for only non-pilots?

Bob --
Your point is well taken, but the TA Grand Club does seem to be logging
them for RIOs.

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)

[Bob]

No question, but all the EM's riding in the older ASW planes, S-2, S-3,
AD-5W et al never logged a trap. I rode back seat in the F-4 with
several guys and never got to log a trap. Right seat in maybe 200 S-2
landings, and no logged traps. I'm not asking for tham just pointing
out the discrepency with NFO traps. I will agree, riding right seat
through a trap was 100% scarier than any I made. Phantom RIOs could
barely see forward during a trap. But there was no column in our log
book for a "scare factor". Just red and green ink for clues. BTW, I
had 984 traps and always wanted the last 16. Next life maybe.

[MICHAEL OLEARY]

In Prowlers, we log traps for both our front seat and back seat ECMOs. Day
and Night traps are also differentiated for ECMOS.
-Moe

"Bob" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> If we are going to count RIOs, EWOs, BNs and passengers as somehow
> having a "trap", the I guess President Bush would qualify with one on
> the Lincoln. Not trying to disparage anyone but IMHO only the guy at
> the stick "traps" all others "ride". Guys who flew two seat planes,
> S-2s, S-3s, etc. didn't ever log traps from the right side. Why log a
> trap for only non-pilots?
>

[Mike Kanze]

Moe,

>In Prowlers, we log traps for both our front seat and back seat ECMOs. Day
>and Night traps are also differentiated for ECMOS.

Ditto for the Intruder community B/Ns of the 1960s and 1970s, and probably
for all carrier-aircraft NFO positions back then. If this weren't the case,
I am sure that we would have heard about it through the grapevine.

Obviously we did not log any of the various forms of pilot time, just
Special Crew time - no matter what we actually did. Other than that logbook
entries for 132x folks were identical to those of our 131x brethren.

(In my case the "actually did" includes a few touch-and-goes in the mighty
Mississippi MiG (T-2) during my stash tour at VT-7.)

--
Mike Kanze

"If truth is beauty, how come no one has their hair done in the library?"

- Lily Tomlin


"MICHAEL OLEARY" > wrote in message
news:dwn4e.24204$k66.21077@trnddc03...
> In Prowlers, we log traps for both our front seat and back seat ECMOs.
> Day and Night traps are also differentiated for ECMOS.
> -Moe
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> If we are going to count RIOs, EWOs, BNs and passengers as somehow
>> having a "trap", the I guess President Bush would qualify with one on
>> the Lincoln. Not trying to disparage anyone but IMHO only the guy at
>> the stick "traps" all others "ride". Guys who flew two seat planes,
>> S-2s, S-3s, etc. didn't ever log traps from the right side. Why log a
>> trap for only non-pilots?
>>
>
>