Trailer tow advice

[[email protected]]

Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.

[[email protected]]

I have a 2017 Ford Escape SE. Mine has all wheel drive, and the 2.0 turbo Ecoboost 4 cylinder 245 hp engine.

I typically tow about 1750 pounds, an SZD 55-1 in an Avionic trailer. I have never towed a two place ship. I have towed to Nephi, Ephrate, Airsailing, Truckee, Williams, and Midlothian.

My tow speed has been as high as 98 mph, and I have been known to pass logging trucks on twisting two lane roads climbing up the Cascades. I have yet to climb a hill that I could not maintain or exceed the posted speed limit.. That is with the trailer, all my glider stuff, camping equipment and one occupant in the vehicle.

The only down side is that it does not have a full size spare.

So yes, I recommend this model of Escape as a tow vehicle.

P9

[[email protected]]

Note that with the sunroof, the roof rack load drops to 20 pounds.

P9

[[email protected]]

PG
Did you consider any other SUV before you acquired your Ford Escape

[[email protected]]

Yes,

I wanted another Hyundai Tuscon. I loved the handling, visibility, and the 6 speed manual. Unfortunately, the newer model Tuscon changed so much that it did not suit my needs.

I prefer smaller cars, so I ruled out larger SUVs. I also ruled out SUVs that do not have a local dealer, such as BMW. There were several other smaller SUVs that would work, but to get the larger engine that I wanted required a package deal, which jacked up the cost. With the Escape, I was able to get the more powerful engine in the lower end SE body. (Same engine as in the higher end Titanium version.) I just do not need the fru-fru stuff. I do not see the point in spending a pile of money on a car that I drive down desert trails, dry lakes, and logging roads with trailer in tow. Naw, I never land out, I just fetch other people :)

P9

[Piet Barber]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.

I had a 2002 ford Escape 3 liter v6. It had a max tow weight of 3500 pounds with a class 2 trailer hitch receptacle. It towed the Komet trailer with the LS-4 just fine, no issues. Later, I bought a Duo Discus, and trailered that a few times. I towed that 2800 or 2900 pound trailer up the mountain on the way to New Castle, VA. I'm just glad nobody was behind me that time.

On the way to Petersburg, WV, I would gather a fan club behind me. They would all be cheering me on, telling me that I'm number 1. (Well, at least that's how many fingers were extended when they were cheering me on.) (No comment about which finger).

On the highway, the trailer had the habit of making my travel exciting -- the wrong kind of excitement. I could get it up to highway speed, but anything near 75 got more exciting than I liked. So I gathered a fan club behind me, wondering why I couldn't get any higher than 67 on the highway.

I traded in the Escape for a Nissan Frontier, and have been happy with the results.

But for towing a single seat glider, the 6 cylinder version of the Escape was quite adequate. Can't comment on the 4 cylinder version.

[[email protected]]

I feel your pain.

I test drove the older six cylinder model of Escape, which is what caused me to buy a Hyundai. The new model of Escape is so much better. The six cylinder engine is not available in the new model. Surprisingly, the smaller displacement four cylinder turbo engine is more responsive. I was doubtful that it would tow well, but someone I know had one with a hitch, so I borrowed it to see how it towed. That sold me. I also run it on regular gas. A contender was the Jeep Cherokee.

[Marton KSz]

I've seen people towing single-seater gliders through the Cascades (Ephrata to Seattle) with compact sedans (e.g. Mazda3). The secret is the manual transmission; hydraulic coupling in small automatic cars can cook quickly if operated under heavy load for an extended period of time (e.g. 30 minutes uphill). Engine displacement is less of a concern.

[Mike N.]

I have towed a DG200 with Minden Fab tube style trailer from California to Utah. Over the Sierra Nevada's in my 2005 Toyota Rav 4 V6

Towed fantastic. Plenty of power going over the mountains and very stable. Really no issues. Cruising around 70 to 75 mph.

I really like the Rav 4. Might be worth considering...

[[email protected]]

On Friday, January 31, 2020 at 10:22:36 AM UTC-5, Piet Barber wrote:
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.
>
> I had a 2002 ford Escape 3 liter v6. It had a max tow weight of 3500 pounds with a class 2 trailer hitch receptacle. It towed the Komet trailer with the LS-4 just fine, no issues. Later, I bought a Duo Discus, and trailered that a few times. I towed that 2800 or 2900 pound trailer up the mountain on the way to New Castle, VA. I'm just glad nobody was behind me that time.
>
> On the way to Petersburg, WV, I would gather a fan club behind me. They would all be cheering me on, telling me that I'm number 1. (Well, at least that's how many fingers were extended when they were cheering me on.) (No comment about which finger).
>
> On the highway, the trailer had the habit of making my travel exciting -- the wrong kind of excitement. I could get it up to highway speed, but anything near 75 got more exciting than I liked. So I gathered a fan club behind me, wondering why I couldn't get any higher than 67 on the highway.
>
> I traded in the Escape for a Nissan Frontier, and have been happy with the results.
>
> But for towing a single seat glider, the 6 cylinder version of the Escape was quite adequate. Can't comment on the 4 cylinder version.

I had a 2001 Ford Escape V6 with the towing option. I really liked that for towing single seat trailers. I towed a Cobra trailer with glider up through West Virginia to Ohio with no issues at all.

I had a friend with a similar vintage 4 cylinder Escape with manual transmission. That seemed to tow well too. The only (small) snag was using tow-out gear pulling his glider to the end of the runway. He needed to ride the clutch to go slow enough.

I have a newer Escape with the 4 cylinder Ecoboost. I haven't gotten the hitch installed yet so I can't comment on how well it tows.

I have looked at Rav4's for towing. Another friend has/had the V6 version (2006 model) which seems to have towed well. The one time he landed out he forgot to leave the keys behind so noone else got an opinion on it! The 4 cylinder and hybrid models mostly seem to be limited to 1000lb towing so I haven't looked beyond that.

[John McCullagh[_2_]]

I am probably telling 95% of you what you know already. For the
rest, how well a trailer tows is also down to weight distribution.
https://youtu.be/6mW_gzdh6to
The same rule applies to all vehicles. Do not think a 4x4 SUV
means guaranteed stability.
As for the power and torque needed, it all depends on how high
and how steeply you are going.

[John McCullagh[_2_]]

I am probably telling 95% of you what you know already. For the
rest, how well a trailer tows is also down to weight distribution.
https://youtu.be/6mW_gzdh6to
The same rule applies to all vehicles. Do not think a 4x4 SUV
means guaranteed stability.
As for the power and torque needed, it all depends on how high
and how steeply you are going.

[Dennis Vreeken]

Nick , you kill me ......lol 😂

[2G]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 3:33:47 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.

It should be fine IF you order it with the Class II Trailer Tow Package. This includes a transmission aux oil cooler and sway control:
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/19Towing_Ford_Escape_Oct25.pdf

Tom

[[email protected]]

Correct.

Oops. Forgot to mention that I have the factory hitch, which in my opinion, is required. As noted in the previous post, the factory hitch includes more than just the hitch. So do not buy a used Escape, and just install a hitch.

P9

[[email protected]]

I had a 2013 Ford Edge with a V6 engine and factory tow package.. It towed very well, even on cruise control at 75 mph. Also, the package included "trailer sway" control, which came in very handy at one point, if I recall.

[Ray Lovinggood[_2_]]

On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.

I guessed at my trailer's loaded weight and I was WAY wrong. To find out, I drove to a truck stop along the interstate that had truck scales and weighed the loaded trailer there. "Swan" trailer with fiberglass top and LS1-c plus a few sundry items in the trailer (tow-out equipment, a few wrenches/screwdrivers, etc). The trailer weighed 2,040 lbs with a 180 lb tongue weight..

My friend pulled his Libelle 201 in a Schreder trailer with his Escape. It was probably a mid 2000's year model with a four cylinder engine and five speed manual transmission. It worked well for him. I drove it once while pulling the trailer, following him on a flight, so the trailer was empty. Pulling empty was no problem.

This trailer does not have brakes.

Last car I bought was a Subaru Outback. It has a 2.5 liter four cylinder engine and a Continuously Variable Transmission. Rated tow capacity is 2,700 lbs.

I also looked at the Ford Escape, but settled on the Subaru. The only Escape rated to tow my trailer was the version with a turbo engine, and I really didn't want that added complexity on the car.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 9:06:00 AM UTC-8, Ray Lovinggood wrote:
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:

> I guessed at my trailer's loaded weight and I was WAY wrong. To find out, I drove to a truck stop along the interstate that had truck scales and weighed the loaded trailer there. "Swan" trailer with fiberglass top and LS1-c plus a few sundry items in the trailer (tow-out equipment, a few wrenches/screwdrivers, etc). The trailer weighed 2,040 lbs with a 180 lb tongue weight...

[OT screed on trailer design follows. Ya beens warneded]

This is kind of endemic to glider trailer design. The length gives them a lot of floor area for the volume, and it takes a lot of structural mass to make the floor support someone walking around on it without distress. You either need thick plywood, or a lot of cross-bracing, and either adds a bunch of mass.

And if you really want to protect your glider from rollovers and minor collisions, that takes more mass besides. So it's no surprise that the total mass kind of gets out of hand.

Built to plans, the Schreder semi-monocoque trailer comes in at around 600lbs. But the 0.032" sides, .060" aluminum floor sparsely supported by aluminum angles and whatever guide rails the builder installs, does not offer much protection and does not exactly inspire confidence when you walk around in it. Similar trailers such as Minden Fab with their longitudinal skinning, more closely-spaced frames, and plywood floors tend to come in at around 900 lbs.

Years ago I bought a trailer for my HP-11 that was built by aero engineer Steve Smith. It had a welded steel space frame lower half and a fiberglass monocoque upper half, with 0.040" prefab fiberglass sheeting for the floor and sides of the space frame portion. It clocked in at 350 lbs and towed with a 1.5 liter car, but you had to step only on the frame members when inside it.

--Bob K.

[George Haeh]

I was helping with an old trailer. The original plywood floor had not aged well and gave way in places under the wing dolly - and my foot when I went inside.

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

Bob
I'm surprised you didn't mention using a Sawzall to help with excessive trailer weight.
Do you need some new blades?

[joesimmers[_2_]]

Nick Kennedy wrote:
> Just drive like hell and get there, fast.
> Before you have an accident.



I must say Nick, that is the best advice I have seen on
RAS in the last 6 months!!!! LOL

[Dave Nadler]

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 8:01:16 PM UTC-5, joesimmers wrote:
> Nick Kennedy wrote:
> > Just drive like hell and get there, fast.
> > Before you have an accident.
>
> I must say Nick, that is the best advice I have seen on
> RAS in the last 6 months!!!! LOL

Naw, sawzall rules.

[2G]

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 9:06:00 AM UTC-8, Ray Lovinggood wrote:
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.
>
> I guessed at my trailer's loaded weight and I was WAY wrong. To find out, I drove to a truck stop along the interstate that had truck scales and weighed the loaded trailer there. "Swan" trailer with fiberglass top and LS1-c plus a few sundry items in the trailer (tow-out equipment, a few wrenches/screwdrivers, etc). The trailer weighed 2,040 lbs with a 180 lb tongue weight.
>
> My friend pulled his Libelle 201 in a Schreder trailer with his Escape. It was probably a mid 2000's year model with a four cylinder engine and five speed manual transmission. It worked well for him. I drove it once while pulling the trailer, following him on a flight, so the trailer was empty. Pulling empty was no problem.
>
> This trailer does not have brakes.
>
> Last car I bought was a Subaru Outback. It has a 2.5 liter four cylinder engine and a Continuously Variable Transmission. Rated tow capacity is 2,700 lbs.
>
> I also looked at the Ford Escape, but settled on the Subaru. The only Escape rated to tow my trailer was the version with a turbo engine, and I really didn't want that added complexity on the car.

I think you should read your Outback manual about trailers w/o brakes. I don't think you can tow a 2,000 lb trailer that does not have trailer brakes. I have read that the limit is 1,000 lb. I found this in the 2019 Outback User Manual:

Trailer brakes are required when
the towing load exceeds 1,000 lbs
(453 kg). B

I presume that a similar requirement exists for all other vehicles - the car's brakes are just not designed to handle an additional ton of weight. Also, all of the cargo and passenger weight in the car must be added to the trailer weight in determining these limits.

Tom

[[email protected]]

> Just drive like hell and get there, fast.
> Before you have an accident.

When towing a large or unruly trailer with an underpowered or undersized vehicle, keep a close eye on your rearview mirrors. If the trailer changes lanes, try to stay in front of it.

[Nigel Jardine[_2_]]

some of you guys are Nuts
one person said
My tow speed has been as high as 98 mph
Plain Crazy (no pun intended )
An other
overtake logging wagons on a winding road thru the "Cascades "

Europe we don't have "Big Trucks " like you guys
but our laws say 75% of GVW for towing
and max of 55/60 mph
have towed a Huge T21 on an open Trailer with a 1.8 Td four door Car
I have Towed with Mitsubishi Shogun/ Pajero with only a 2.5 litre engine
again large open trailer right across the country
any difference between the 2
No
other than not as quick from the traffic lights
BUT
i'm not pushing it hard nor am I doing the Indy 500

SLOW And SAFE and within the laws ( weight and speed)

But I certainly would not do as high as 98 mph nor would I overtake
logging wagons on a winding road thru the "Cascades "
look at weight of tow outfit total!! including all the stuff you chuck in
the trailer
find car that can do that weight

stay safe !!

[Mark Morwood]

> I think you should read your Outback manual about trailers w/o brakes. I don't think you can tow a 2,000 lb trailer that does not have trailer brakes. I have read that the limit is 1,000 lb. I found this in the 2019 Outback User Manual:
>
> Trailer brakes are required when
> the towing load exceeds 1,000 lbs
> (453 kg). B

This differs from country to country for the same car. In Australia the 2019 Subaru Outback is rated for:

750kg unbraked (~1600 lbs)
1500kg to 1800kg braked depending on the model (~3200 to 4000 lbs)

I'm pretty sure the 750kg max is driven by the state road rules here that require trailers over 750kg GTM to be braked independent of the capacity of the towing vehicle.

[2G]

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 3:08:35 PM UTC-8, Mark Morwood wrote:
> > I think you should read your Outback manual about trailers w/o brakes. I don't think you can tow a 2,000 lb trailer that does not have trailer brakes. I have read that the limit is 1,000 lb. I found this in the 2019 Outback User Manual:
> >
> > Trailer brakes are required when
> > the towing load exceeds 1,000 lbs
> > (453 kg). B
>
> This differs from country to country for the same car. In Australia the 2019 Subaru Outback is rated for:
>
> 750kg unbraked (~1600 lbs)
> 1500kg to 1800kg braked depending on the model (~3200 to 4000 lbs)
>
> I'm pretty sure the 750kg max is driven by the state road rules here that require trailers over 750kg GTM to be braked independent of the capacity of the towing vehicle.

It's just plain common sense: brakes aren't designed for double the gross vehicle weight. In any case, 1,600 lb is lighter than any glider trailer I am aware of.

Tom

[SoaringXCellence]

Lightest weight for glider and trailer, measured at the truck scales:

Libelle 301 in a Eberle trailer = 1190 pounds.

[Ray Lovinggood[_2_]]

On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 11:39:03 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, February 14, 2020 at 9:06:00 AM UTC-8, Ray Lovinggood wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 30, 2020 at 6:33:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > Any opinions on Ford Escape SUV 2liter as a tow vehicle? I live on the east coast but may want to tow to sailplane destinations out west. Near certain my trailer and glider is under a ton.
> >
> > I guessed at my trailer's loaded weight and I was WAY wrong. To find out, I drove to a truck stop along the interstate that had truck scales and weighed the loaded trailer there. "Swan" trailer with fiberglass top and LS1-c plus a few sundry items in the trailer (tow-out equipment, a few wrenches/screwdrivers, etc). The trailer weighed 2,040 lbs with a 180 lb tongue weight.
> >
> > My friend pulled his Libelle 201 in a Schreder trailer with his Escape. It was probably a mid 2000's year model with a four cylinder engine and five speed manual transmission. It worked well for him. I drove it once while pulling the trailer, following him on a flight, so the trailer was empty. Pulling empty was no problem.
> >
> > This trailer does not have brakes.
> >
> > Last car I bought was a Subaru Outback. It has a 2.5 liter four cylinder engine and a Continuously Variable Transmission. Rated tow capacity is 2,700 lbs.
> >
> > I also looked at the Ford Escape, but settled on the Subaru. The only Escape rated to tow my trailer was the version with a turbo engine, and I really didn't want that added complexity on the car.
>
> I think you should read your Outback manual about trailers w/o brakes. I don't think you can tow a 2,000 lb trailer that does not have trailer brakes. I have read that the limit is 1,000 lb. I found this in the 2019 Outback User Manual:
>
> Trailer brakes are required when
> the towing load exceeds 1,000 lbs
> (453 kg). B
>
> I presume that a similar requirement exists for all other vehicles - the car's brakes are just not designed to handle an additional ton of weight. Also, all of the cargo and passenger weight in the car must be added to the trailer weight in determining these limits.
>
> Tom

Poorly worded - let me try to clarify:

I was driving my friend's Escape pulling his Schreder trailer which was empty. His trailer does not have brakes.

My Swan does have brakes and I pull it with the 2016 Outback. The maximum trailer weight for the 2016 Outback (US market) for trailer with brakes is 2,700 lbs.