Person, vessel, vehicle, or structure

[Mark James Boyd]

US 14CFR91.119 Minimum safe altitudes

Except when necessary for takeoff and landing, no person may operate
an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those
cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any
person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

***********************

My take on this has always been that the avoidance of persons, vessels,
vehicles and structures is specifically to avoid injuring people.
The assumption is that vessels, vehicles and structures may
have people in them.

I don't consider a fencepost a structure. If the regulations had intended
all property to be protected, they would include animals (livestock)
also.

The FAA has a very clear history of citing pilots who fly very low over
trailers with lights on while ignoring pilots who fly low over
vast tracts of greenhouses. The main difference is the human beings
complaining.

My take on low passes not necessary for landing? If they are
500 feet away from people (or vessels, vehicles, and structures people
are inside) then pilot discretion. Some runways (McClellan former AFB,
Castle, Avenal) have plenty of space and even the taxiways are
far from where a low pass is done.

I fly low a lot. My goal is always more common sense than
pure regulation: don't ever make any person on the ground feel
threatened by the aircraft. If there is a chance a vessel, vehicle,
or structure is occupied, avoid pointing at it and turn away from it
as I get close.

Would I do a low pass over another aircraft on the runway, near
aircraft on taxiways, or over a motorhome parked at the end of the runway?
No way. Do I try very hard to avoid overflying people or aircraft
even during landing? Yes I do.

Can one do a low pass safely less than 500 feet from random
kids and dogs who may enjoy runing out onto the runway to
watch (as there are no airshow CAP cadets to hold them back)?

Maybe. I dunno. I have landed a few times and been very, very
frightened by the thought of my wing decapitating some eager
spectators whose distance perception is foiled by their camera
viewfinder. And this was technically leagal! Eeek!

Lots of energy and speed during the pass maybe gives more control to
avoid a collision than during landing, so maybe it is actually safer.
But if I were a CD, I'd probably encourage pilots to do this, if at
all, 500 feet laterally from any people. I think that is
still close enough to look cool, right?

This fencepost business and the idea that a fencepost is a
91.119 "structure" sounds like urban pilot legend to me.
I'll stack my AOPA legal team against that blather any day ;)

Oh, and I'm gonna bring my silly red reflective vest to
Avenal and wear it during the contest if I'm wandering around the
runway near you silent supersonic white scythes of death, ok? :)
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

[John Sinclair]

Think about the finish gate at Avenal, Mark. Where
does it start? At the western edge of the ramp/runway.
What else is located on the western edge of the ramp/runway?
The glider tie-down used for contests. What do we find
in the glider tie-down area besides gliders? Motor
homes, wives and kids. 500 feet is quite a long ways,
it's almost 2 football fields. The feds can't enforce
everything, but have an accident and watch the tape
measures come out.
See you there in a couple of months, let's get all
this rain out of the way, before the spring contest.
JJ

>My take on low passes not necessary for landing? If
>they are
>500 feet away from people (or vessels, vehicles, and
>structures people
>are inside) then pilot discretion. Some runways (McClellan
>former AFB,
>Castle, Avenal) have plenty of space and even the taxiways
>are
>far from where a low pass is done.
>
>I fly low a lot. My goal is always more common sense
>than
>pure regulation: don't ever make any person on the
>ground feel
>threatened by the aircraft. If there is a chance a
>vessel, vehicle,
>or structure is occupied, avoid pointing at it and
>turn away from it
>as I get close.
>
>Would I do a low pass over another aircraft on the
>runway, near
>aircraft on taxiways, or over a motorhome parked at
>the end of the runway?
>No way. Do I try very hard to avoid overflying people
>or aircraft
>even during landing? Yes I do.
>
>Can one do a low pass safely less than 500 feet from
>random
>kids and dogs who may enjoy runing out onto the runway
>to
>watch (as there are no airshow CAP cadets to hold them
>back)?
>
>Maybe. I dunno. I have landed a few times and been
>very, very
>frightened by the thought of my wing decapitating some
>eager
>spectators whose distance perception is foiled by their
>camera
>viewfinder. And this was technically leagal! Eeek!
>
>
>Lots of energy and speed during the pass maybe gives
>more control to
>avoid a collision than during landing, so maybe it
>is actually safer.
>But if I were a CD, I'd probably encourage pilots to
>do this, if at
>all, 500 feet laterally from any people. I think that
>is
>still close enough to look cool, right?
>
>This fencepost business and the idea that a fencepost
>is a
>91.119 'structure' sounds like urban pilot legend to
>me.
>I'll stack my AOPA legal team against that blather
>any day ;)
>
>Oh, and I'm gonna bring my silly red reflective vest
>to
>Avenal and wear it during the contest if I'm wandering
>around the
>runway near you silent supersonic white scythes of
>death, ok? :)
>--
>
>------------+
>Mark J. Boyd
>