Trip...

[Denny]

In a few weeks I'm going to make the annual trip from Michigan to
Florida... Thought I would detour this time instead of the usual 8
hour, straight line, Michigan to the beach thrash... I decided to
leave at noon on Friday instead of waiting till Saturday morning...
As I was reviewing the usual routes we fly, a stray thought occurred
that we have not been to St. Louis.. We could go there for supper, see
the Arch in the morning and then go to New Orleans for supper on Burbon
Street and an overnight... I'm seeking the groups opinion...

Is seeing the Arch worth the price of fuel, a motel room, and taxi
fare? What is the suggested airport at St. Louis?

Likewise, is going to New Orleans for supper and overnight worthwhile?
And, what is the suggested airport?

The downside I see to this trip is the 300 nm from New Orleans to
Tallahassee following that barren, MOA infested, coastline...

denny

[Dan Luke]

"Denny" wrote:
> The downside I see to this trip is the 300 nm from New Orleans to
> Tallahassee following that barren, MOA infested, coastline...

Barren?

Anyhow, the MOAs between Mobile and Tallahassee are a non issue if you
fly V198. If you want to fly along the Alabama/Florida beach, there's a
corridor for that, too.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Darrel Toepfer]

Dan Luke wrote:
> "Denny" wrote:
>
>>The downside I see to this trip is the 300 nm from New Orleans to
>>Tallahassee following that barren, MOA infested, coastline...
>
> Barren?

Been through there a few times, day and night and there's lots to see...

> Anyhow, the MOAs between Mobile and Tallahassee are a non issue if you
> fly V198. If you want to fly along the Alabama/Florida beach, there's a
> corridor for that, too.

They finaly pulled the Pensacola TFRs...

[Demonick]

On 20 Mar 2005 06:08:36 -0800, Denny wrote:

> Likewise, is going to New Orleans for supper and overnight worthwhile?
> And, what is the suggested airport?

I think most folks use Lakefront (NEW).

Demonick

[Blanche]

Forget St Louis (altho I've had great times when I worked there) and spend
the 2 days in New Orleans.

[W P Dixon]

AMEN Blanche!!!! Two days of cajon and creole food and benets to boot!!!!! I
can spend two days just sitting in Dumonds!!!

Patrick


"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> Forget St Louis (altho I've had great times when I worked there) and spend
> the 2 days in New Orleans.
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Is seeing the Arch worth the price of fuel, a motel room, and taxi
> fare? What is the suggested airport at St. Louis?

Yes.

Land at Creve Coeur (http://www.airnav.com/airport/1H0 ), and take the
guided tour of the hangars. It's an amazing airport, with amazing,
one-of-a-kind airplanes -- and the adequate nearby casino hotel (whose name
escapes me now) will come pick you up, gratis.

And the Arch is cool, too.

BTW -- I agree with your assessment of flying over parts of Florida. The
panhandle is about as bleak as it gets, unless you like scrub, sink-holes
and MOAs.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

W P Dixon wrote:
>
> I can spend two days just sitting in Dumonds!!!

Yeah, but will you be in any shape to pilot the plane after that?

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[[email protected]]

I visited the arch last year - something I had wanted to do since I
first saw it 40 years ago. Worth a stop, IMHO. Also the St Louis Zoo -
one of
the few that are still free. Check out the Cockatoo that has been there
since the 1930s.

Drury Inns, based in St Louis, are one of the best motel chains around
IMHO. You find 'em in the heartland.

I used Lakefront airport when I visited N.O. Very convenient, and no
hassles. From there I continued on to Kissimmee FL without any
problems. Fortunately, the weather was good that day.

David Johnson

[W P Dixon]

Nope but I would sure be fat and happy!!!!!

Patrick


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> W P Dixon wrote:
>>
>> I can spend two days just sitting in Dumonds!!!
>
> Yeah, but will you be in any shape to pilot the plane after that?
>
> George Patterson
> I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Denny]

Thanks for the advice guys... Rather than reply to everyone
individually, I'll make general comments here...

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... I have flown the
panhandle coast line before and the last time there I motored along for
about ten minutes, said "jeeeezzzz", hung a right turn and went
straight across the gulf to Tampa rather than look at that coast any
longer... Probably not the smartest thing to do even with two engines
because I didn't have flotation gear along on that trip and I found
that the north end of the Gulf was empty of boats, in the event of
going down... I kept ATC dialed in (not talking to them) just in case
I needed to hit 7700 and hollar for help...

Yes Dan, I noted V198 as staying out of the airspace where our
government flies multi million dollar airplanes with secret electronics
that can't seem to avoid hitting a 100 knot spam can...

Hey, I like zoos... Give you a tip in return, the Colorado Springs zoo
seems to be not well known, but I thought it was outstanding...

The advice to spend two days in the Big Easy is good, but I suspect I
need to see the arch - unless the majority advice is to skip it... I
intend to see it again in a few years when I'm too decrepit to spend 14
hours a day running my business and go do the Great Loop, but who knows
at my age... Eat dessert first, you may not get to it otherwise...
The other point about the Big Easy is that I don't like spicy food and
one drink is pretty much my limit... So taking the horse and buggy tour
of the French Quarter and supper on Burbon St. will likely suffice...

Drury Inn is interesting... One Sunday I wandered out to the airport to
go flying... There was a corporate jet on the ramp and a crowd milling
around in the lounge with the smell of money permeating the
atmosphere... I wiggled my way between the designer suits, power
ties, Rolex's, pearl necklaces, Gucci high heels, etc., to the coffee
pot... They had emptied it - leaving the empty pot on the burner, grrrr
- so I busied myself cleaning up the mess and making a fresh pot...
Just as it finished dripping this Drury van pulled up and a couple in
their early 60's got out, she in blue jeans and a sweater, he in shirt
sleeves and no tie... He parted the crowd like the Red Sea, straight
to the coffee bar and said it smelled good,... I poured him a cup and
made small talk... He said the group was with Drury Inn... Never heard
of it, I said... He went over to the wall display of advertising (again
plowing through the crowd which parted silently), pulled a brochure
and handed it to me... I looked at the brochure and opined I still had
never heard of it... He got a bit annoyed, introduced himself as Mr.
Drury, and stomped off... I doubt that I am going to be offered the VIP
suite if I ever stay at one...

For St. Louis I have one vote for Creve Coeur and the guided tour..
Anyone have an opinion on St. Louis Downtown, CPS, it seems to be in
the shadow of the Arch...

At the Big Easy one vote for NEW - any other choices?

denny

[Jim Burns]

Sorry I can't give you any help, but I'd like to get a PIREP from your trip
when you get back. My kids saw the Arch on TV the other night and I
mentioned flying down there, so it's something we may do this summer.
Thanks
Jim

"Denny" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Thanks for the advice guys... Rather than reply to everyone
> individually, I'll make general comments here...
>
> Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... I have flown the
> panhandle coast line before and the last time there I motored along for
> about ten minutes, said "jeeeezzzz", hung a right turn and went
> straight across the gulf to Tampa rather than look at that coast any
> longer... Probably not the smartest thing to do even with two engines
> because I didn't have flotation gear along on that trip and I found
> that the north end of the Gulf was empty of boats, in the event of
> going down... I kept ATC dialed in (not talking to them) just in case
> I needed to hit 7700 and hollar for help...
>
> Yes Dan, I noted V198 as staying out of the airspace where our
> government flies multi million dollar airplanes with secret electronics
> that can't seem to avoid hitting a 100 knot spam can...
>
> Hey, I like zoos... Give you a tip in return, the Colorado Springs zoo
> seems to be not well known, but I thought it was outstanding...
>
> The advice to spend two days in the Big Easy is good, but I suspect I
> need to see the arch - unless the majority advice is to skip it... I
> intend to see it again in a few years when I'm too decrepit to spend 14
> hours a day running my business and go do the Great Loop, but who knows
> at my age... Eat dessert first, you may not get to it otherwise...
> The other point about the Big Easy is that I don't like spicy food and
> one drink is pretty much my limit... So taking the horse and buggy tour
> of the French Quarter and supper on Burbon St. will likely suffice...
>
> Drury Inn is interesting... One Sunday I wandered out to the airport to
> go flying... There was a corporate jet on the ramp and a crowd milling
> around in the lounge with the smell of money permeating the
> atmosphere... I wiggled my way between the designer suits, power
> ties, Rolex's, pearl necklaces, Gucci high heels, etc., to the coffee
> pot... They had emptied it - leaving the empty pot on the burner, grrrr
> - so I busied myself cleaning up the mess and making a fresh pot...
> Just as it finished dripping this Drury van pulled up and a couple in
> their early 60's got out, she in blue jeans and a sweater, he in shirt
> sleeves and no tie... He parted the crowd like the Red Sea, straight
> to the coffee bar and said it smelled good,... I poured him a cup and
> made small talk... He said the group was with Drury Inn... Never heard
> of it, I said... He went over to the wall display of advertising (again
> plowing through the crowd which parted silently), pulled a brochure
> and handed it to me... I looked at the brochure and opined I still had
> never heard of it... He got a bit annoyed, introduced himself as Mr.
> Drury, and stomped off... I doubt that I am going to be offered the VIP
> suite if I ever stay at one...
>
> For St. Louis I have one vote for Creve Coeur and the guided tour..
> Anyone have an opinion on St. Louis Downtown, CPS, it seems to be in
> the shadow of the Arch...
>
> At the Big Easy one vote for NEW - any other choices?
>
> denny
>

[Jim Fisher]

"Denny" > wrote in message
.... I looked at the brochure and opined I still had
> never heard of it... He got a bit annoyed, introduced himself as Mr.
> Drury, and stomped off... I doubt that I am going to be offered the VIP
> suite if I ever stay at one...

Snicker! Must be a local thing as I nevah heard of him either.

For what it's worth: I just love N'Awlins but I'd rather fly through the
arch. Just once.

--
Jim Fisher

[ShawnD2112]

Let's see, I seem to remember there is a GA airport right across the river
from St. Louis in Illinois, but the name escapes me (it'll come to me as
soon as I've sent this, I'm sure). The Arch is pretty cool and the zoo is
excellent. as others have said. The city museum and art museum are pretty
cool, too. Are they alone worth the stop? Maybe.

But the thing that IS worth the stop, if you're into live music, is the live
blues scene in town. It's been 10 years since I was there, but checking the
websites a year or two ago, I believe Mike and Min's in The Soulard (down by
the brewery) is still rated as the best blues venue in town. For the last 6
months I was living around there, I was at Mike and Min's every Saturday
night. The quality of the talent is superb and you are guaranteed a
rafter-rockin', knock-down-drag-out night of kick ass blues if you go. My
first night there I saw Chuck Berry's daughter blowing harp and she was
amazing. A couple years later I got to witness Chuck himself leave at the
door when the doorman didn't recognize him and tried to charge him $2 for
the cover charge!

St. Louis isn't a great destination as a tourist stop. You'd struggle to
fill more than a couple of days, but if you fancy a stop for just a day or
two, it's worthwhile.

Enjoy and let us know how you get on.

Shawn

"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> In a few weeks I'm going to make the annual trip from Michigan to
> Florida... Thought I would detour this time instead of the usual 8
> hour, straight line, Michigan to the beach thrash... I decided to
> leave at noon on Friday instead of waiting till Saturday morning...
> As I was reviewing the usual routes we fly, a stray thought occurred
> that we have not been to St. Louis.. We could go there for supper, see
> the Arch in the morning and then go to New Orleans for supper on Burbon
> Street and an overnight... I'm seeking the groups opinion...
>
> Is seeing the Arch worth the price of fuel, a motel room, and taxi
> fare? What is the suggested airport at St. Louis?
>
> Likewise, is going to New Orleans for supper and overnight worthwhile?
> And, what is the suggested airport?
>
> The downside I see to this trip is the 300 nm from New Orleans to
> Tallahassee following that barren, MOA infested, coastline...
>
> denny
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

Denny wrote:

> For St. Louis I have one vote for Creve Coeur and the guided tour..
> Anyone have an opinion on St. Louis Downtown, CPS, it seems to be in
> the shadow of the Arch...

The Budweiser Farm (Grant's Farm) has free beer and a free tour of the
exotics homed there (just pay for parking), so does the Budweiser
brewery (more labels to sample from) where everything is free. Granted
those 2 stops only get you 4 beers but they're both worth the price of
admission... Science museum is free, free parking too... Gotta pay to
geaux up in the Arch though, kinda freaky on a windy day...

More river traffic to watch in NO though... Free ferry rides too...

[bdl]

I've mostly lurked on these groups for the past 3 years. I guess its
time to "give back". I've lived here most of my life, but that being
said, I've never really visited my city as a tourist.

Arch (Downtown) (http://www.nps.gov/jeff/)
-------
Its been a few years since I was at the arch, but most of this
information should still be valid.

The arch is a good visit, although being "up" in it can be a little
anti-climactic. Its not as tall as some structures you'll find in
other cities (Toronto's National tower, Sears tower in Chicago, Empire
state building, the Stratosphere in Vegas, etc). Its about 42 (44?)
stories (600+ feet or less than pattern altitude ;) high essentially.
The best views of the city with the arch (pictures, etc) are from the
east side of the river, although that area is mostly industrial and can
seem "seedy" (strip clubs, etc) "Look kids, blight! See all that
blight?"

The best part of a visit to the arch, IMO is to just admire the
engineering and the architecture. One of the best ways to do that is
to see the film about the making of the arch. Although its a bit
dated, its a well done 40 minute or so film that details the
architecture and some of the unique construction techniques that were
requried.

There is also a very good museum on the Lewis and Clark expedition and
the westward expansion. Worth a good hour or so if you like
museums/diorama's. My favorite part is all the journal entries they
have written on the walls as you literally follow the expedition on its
journey from one side of the museum to the other.

There's a fee for the trip to the top ($10/adult, $3/child) and tickets
do sell out early. Although it looks like there might be a way to get
tickets online, search google. Usually the way it works is that once
you get your tickets you have a couple hours to kill anyway so you go
see the movie, and wander around the grounds outside. For the trip up
you sit in a small capsule that seems to have been built for much
smaller stature people than the average person today. It can be a
little claustrophobic. Each capsule seats 5 as I remember. If you
have a couple of kids in your group its not too bad, since they take up
less room. The ride is short, 10 minutes or so.

Last time I was there was shortly after Sep11 and there was essentially
a airport screening type vestibule. No weapons, lighters, etc allowed.
That may have changed with lower security status.

Courthouse (downtown)
-----------
Also downtown, a short walk just west of the arch is the other "half"
of the park, is the old courthouse, the scene of the first 2 trials of
the Dred Scott case. I've been told that this is a real good tour and
view of the history of St. Louis, although have never been. Just south
of the arch is the "old cathedral" the oldest catholic cathedral west
of the Missippi.


Zoo (west of downtown)
----
I too enjoy a good zoo, and I've found that ours is pretty nice. It's
free, although if you park in one of the lots there's a fee for that.
There's usually plenty of free parking in the surrounding park (the zoo
sits in a large park known as Forest Park, site of the 1904 Worlds
Fair). ALthough you might have a long walk to the entrance. There are
actually "two" entrances to the zoo, a front one and a back one. The
children's zoo is well-done as well.

City Museum (downtown)
-------------
Never been, but I hear good things, especially for the kids. Its a
quirky, kid-friendly private museum located downtown.

Science Museum (Forest park (near the zoo))
-----------------------
Nice museum, although its no Smithsonian. Has the usual science
related exhibits for kids (exploring the concept of lift for example).
Tends to be for the younger kids in my opinion. Bridge over the
highway connecting the original planetarium and the science museum
seems to be the kids favorite part in all the times I've been there.
Also an OmniMax.

History Museum (Forest Park (north side of the park)
-------------------------
I like it a lot, although tennds to focus on St. Louis only history.
Had a real good bunch of exhibits on Lindbergh the last time I was
there (a few years ago), that I wish I had spent more time looking at.
The wife was pushing me along ;) Usually some fixed exhibits with some
rotating exhibits. Check Google for an updated list of whats to see
there.

Brewery (South of Downtown)
------------------
Good tour. Theirs a museum gift shop as part of the tour that explains
the history of Anheuser-Busch which is interesting.

There's other things of course, but those are probably the biggies. I
havent' been tot he Creve Coeur hangar tour, but have only heard good
things.

For a dated, but probably still accurate as to "feel" of the city you
can view an archive of the "Low-BS" guide to St. Louis. Its a
humerous, sometimes painful look at our city from a local "beatnik"
type. No longer updated, but still interesting.

http://web.archive.org/web/19970522103710/http://www.inlink.com/~jbhicks/stlguide.html

Flying to St. Louis
-------------------
I'll defer to the Pilots that have actually visited St. Louis and flown
in as opposed to someone actually based here. You basically have a few
airports to choose from:

KCPS (Downtown/Parks) - Close to downtown, but you'll still need to
rent a car or take a cab. Probably the best chance to see the arch "on
the way in".

KSUS (Spirit of St. Louis) - Further west, 15-25 minute drive to
downtown.

KALN (Alton) - Smaller towered field to the north of the city. Problem
of getting from "there" to the city since you have to take one of a few
bridges across the Missippi.

1H0 (Between SUS and STL) Untowered field thats a little closer to
downtown than spirit. Nice runway.

3SQ and SET (St. Charles County West of St. Louis) Further out. 3SQ
is a prety rough runway these days. Its got a very active flight
school though. I solo'd there ;). KSET is close to ALN just on the
Missouri side of the river, but still far out for a quick jaunt into
the city.

Class B airspace. KSTL still has class B airspace although since we
lost "hub status" from American, traffic is light and mostly regional
jets. ATC services are easy to get, and they will even sometimes give
you Class B transition during non-peak times. Useful if your heading
into KCPS and want to stay high over the city.

Traveling:
----------
Unless your flying into Lambert (KSTL) there's not really an easy way
to take mass transit to downtown to see the arch. You're either going
to have to take a cab, or rent a car. If you just want to see the
arch, I'd probably go into KCPS and call for a cab. You'll need to
call a dispatch office to have them pick you up however, or go across
the street to one of the hotels to try and pick up a return cab
however. Its impossible to hail a cab like you can do in a major city
like Chicago, or NY.

Otherwise if flying into another airport or seeing a lot of stuff,
might be best to just rent a car for the day.

Hope that helps. As always, I take no responsibility for ruined
vacations, etc, if my advise doesn't pan out. If it does, I'd love to
hear about it.

Brian

[Jay Honeck]

> I've mostly lurked on these groups for the past 3 years. I guess its
> time to "give back". I've lived here most of my life, but that being
> said, I've never really visited my city as a tourist.

Wow -- what a great "St. Louis Primer"!

I don't save too many Usenet posts -- but this one is a keeper. Thanks,
Brian!

BTW: I agree with your assessment of the history museum. We obtained much
of our Lindbergh Suite stuff from them, during their Lindbergh Expo in
2003... It was a great exhibit.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[bdl]

Thanks Jay. That means a lot coming from you.

So whats there to see in Iowa City? ;-) Besides the suites. ;-)

Brian

[Jay Honeck]

> Thanks Jay. That means a lot coming from you.
>
> So whats there to see in Iowa City? ;-) Besides the suites. ;-)

What, you need another reason to visit? :-)

Well, the University of Iowa has 35,000 students, and a few more thousand
faculty and staff. Anytime you get that big a concentration of young,
wealthy people, you *know* there is going to be a lot of stuff to do.

And Iowa City doesn't disappoint. You can see world class entertainment,
Big Ten sporting events, any number of literary and educational affairs,
and -- just 15 miles away from all this hoopla -- a large Amish community
with horse-drawn wagons being the preferred form of transportation.

And, just 20 miles away, lie the Amana Colonies, with a terrific assortment
of old world German restaurants, shops, and events.

It's an amazing place to live and visit. Check out our website, go to
"upcoming events", and pick a weekend with something you're interested in
seeing!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[bdl]

> What, you need another reason to visit? :-)

Well I dont, but it helps to sell the wife on a trip in one of those
godforsaken airplanes that could fall out of the sky any moment and do
damage to the husband that she love.... ;-)

Just did the handshake on an existing partnership in an Archer, so I
plan on making a lot more cross-countries, now that I dont have to have
the plane back in a certain amount of time, or pay a 3 hour minimum per
24 hours. I'm sure we'll make it up there sometime this summer.

>Well, the University of Iowa has 35,000 students, and a few
>more thousand faculty and staff. [...snip...]
>And Iowa City doesn't disappoint. You can see world class
>entertainment, Big Ten sporting events, any number of
>literary and educational affairs, and -- just 15 miles away
>from all this hoopla -- a large Amish community with horse-drawn
>wagons being the preferred form of transportation.

You know its funny, we both went to the University of Illinois and
Champaign sounds amazingly similar in feel. Even has an amish area
nearby (can't remember the name of it now). I lived and worked in
Champaign, as a "townie" for 3 years while my wife went to law school,
and I loved the feel of the city.

Brian