larger pilot

[[email protected]]

Hi, I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds and new to soaring. I've been looking at the possibilities open to me after I finish training and all single seaters have a cockpit rated to 110 kg, i.e. a 10 kilo allowance for a chute and a pilot around 100 kilo's max. As I am well over the limit with a chute is there any way out of this other than to start dieting? Regards Mark

[Chris Norris]

110 daN is the a magic number in several German gliders. In the USA, they don't understand the difference between kg and daN, so we get converted to 242 lbs (about 5 lbs lower). Chute typically weighs about 14 lbs / 6.5 kg.

In the USA, you could do all of your training in gliders that do not require you to wear a chute, but some other countries are stricter about that. You will not be able to fly any contests without one.

[Michael Opitz]

At 07:45 10 February 2020, wrote:
Hi, I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds and new to soaring. I've been looking
at the possibilities open to me after I finish training and all single
seaters have a cockpit rated to 110 kg, i.e. a 10 kilo allowance for a
chute and a pilot around 100 kilo's max. As I am well over the limit
with a chute is there any way out of this other than to start dieting?
Regards Mark



It is my understanding that this limit is due to the strength of the
harness attachment points (including those in 2-seaters as well).
IIRC, there are a few newer gliders that may have the option of a
BRS (Ballistic Recovery System - a chute that recovers the whole
glider), which would allow you to use the seat without actually
wearing a chute. This will probably be an expensive solution
though, depending on your available budget.

RO

[[email protected][_2_]]

First find a glider that fits. Have you tried any on for size yet? 6’6” is a factor.
I’ve seen a few chunkies over the years that weighed 230.... on the moon.
Then, find a good reliable friendly scale that you like, put some water in the tail, more air in the tire(s), and go fly.
Remember to maintain VFR distance from clouds.
You look 210 to me.
R

[Peter F[_2_]]

The cheapest & healthiest solution would be to get your weight down to
about 100kg, i.e. A BMI of around 25



At 14:42 10 February 2020, wrote:
>First find a glider that fits. Have you tried any on for size yet?
6=E2=80=
>=996=E2=80=9D is a factor.=20
>I=E2=80=99ve seen a few chunkies over the years that weighed 230.... on
>the=
> moon.
>Then, find a good reliable friendly scale that you like, put some water
in
>=
>the tail, more air in the tire(s), and go fly.
>Remember to maintain VFR distance from clouds.
>You look 210 to me.
>R
>

[John Foster]

On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 9:45:04 AM UTC-7, Peter F wrote:
> The cheapest & healthiest solution would be to get your weight down to
> about 100kg, i.e. A BMI of around 25
>
>
>
> At 14:42 10 February 2020, wrote:
> >First find a glider that fits. Have you tried any on for size yet?
> 6=E2=80=
> >=996=E2=80=9D is a factor.=20
> >I=E2=80=99ve seen a few chunkies over the years that weighed 230..... on
> >the=
> > moon.
> >Then, find a good reliable friendly scale that you like, put some water
> in
> >=
> >the tail, more air in the tire(s), and go fly.
> >Remember to maintain VFR distance from clouds.
> >You look 210 to me.
> >R
> >

This is true, but it still won't solve the problem of how tall he is. It will still be a bit more of a challenge to find a glider that will fit him with his height of 6'6". And I would venture that any glider that could accommodate a pilot that tall, could also accommodate a pilot that heavy. After all, it is only a BMI of 27.7, and he would only need to loose 25 lbs to have a BMI under 25.

[[email protected]]

AC-4 Russia has huge cockpit if you're not looking for super performance. And if you don't mind Russian product support.

[Ken Fixter[_3_]]

At 18:56 10 February 2020, John Foster wrote:
>On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 9:45:04 AM UTC-7, Peter F wrote:
>> The cheapest & healthiest solution would be to get your weight down to
>> about 100kg, i.e. A BMI of around 25
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> At 14:42 10 February 2020, wrote:
>> >First find a glider that fits. Have you tried any on for size yet?
>> 6=3DE2=3D80=3D
>> >=3D996=3DE2=3D80=3D9D is a factor.=3D20
>> >I=3DE2=3D80=3D99ve seen a few chunkies over the years that weighed
>230..=
>... on
>> >the=3D
>> > moon.
>> >Then, find a good reliable friendly scale that you like, put some
water
>> in
>> >=3D
>> >the tail, more air in the tire(s), and go fly.
>> >Remember to maintain VFR distance from clouds.
>> >You look 210 to me.
>> >R
>> >
>>>
>This is true, but it still won't solve the problem of how tall he is. It
>w=
>ill still be a bit more of a challenge to find a glider that will fit him
>w=
>ith his height of 6'6". And I would venture that any glider that could
>acc=
>ommodate a pilot that tall, could also accommodate a pilot that heavy.
>Aft=
>er all, it is only a BMI of 27.7, and he would only need to loose 25 lbs
>to=
> have a BMI under 25.
>>>
>> Your feet are not on the seat in flight that must be about
> 10 Kg, or more not on the seat.
>> KF.
>

[Jordan[_2_]]

20 would work. Maybe an LS. 6'5" 230lb and my 20 fits great with the seat back out and the astronaut foam seat cushion.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 12:38:25 -0800, Jordan wrote:

> 20 would work. Maybe an LS. 6'5" 230lb and my 20 fits great with the
> seat back out and the astronaut foam seat cushion.

If the OP fits an ASW-20, he'll also fit an ASW-19 or a Centraire Pegase.

The 19 and 20 used the same fuselage moulds. Centraire built 20s under
licence and so also had copies of the fuselage moulds. They made very
minor changes to them when they terminated that contract and rolled out
the Pegase: they moved the cockpit ventilation intake from under the
wings to the nose and slightly increased the rear tailboom diameter.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Michael Opitz]

At 14:04 10 February 2020, Michael Opitz wrote:
>At 07:45 10 February 2020, wrote:
>Hi, I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds and new to soaring. I've been looking
>at the possibilities open to me after I finish training and all single
>seaters have a cockpit rated to 110 kg, i.e. a 10 kilo allowance for a
>chute and a pilot around 100 kilo's max. As I am well over the limit
>with a chute is there any way out of this other than to start dieting?
>Regards Mark
>
>
>
>It is my understanding that this limit is due to the strength of the
>harness attachment points (including those in 2-seaters as well).
>IIRC, there are a few newer gliders that may have the option of a
>BRS (Ballistic Recovery System - a chute that recovers the whole
>glider), which would allow you to use the seat without actually
>wearing a chute. This will probably be an expensive solution
>though, depending on your available budget.
>
>RO
>
>
I'm thinking that a Genesis would do the trick if you can find one.
Very large cockpit with a BRS too.

RO

[Peter F[_2_]]

It's not an issue for me as I'm 1.75m, but last time I was at Aero Expo the
Schempp rep said the modern non "A" types are good for a 2m pilot.

I.e D2 / V2 b/c

Don't know about the "larger" V3 fuselage

At 01:26 11 February 2020, Michael Opitz wrote:
>At 14:04 10 February 2020, Michael Opitz wrote:
>>At 07:45 10 February 2020, wrote:
>>Hi, I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds and new to soaring. I've been looking
>>at the possibilities open to me after I finish training and all single
>>seaters have a cockpit rated to 110 kg, i.e. a 10 kilo allowance for a
>>chute and a pilot around 100 kilo's max. As I am well over the limit
>>with a chute is there any way out of this other than to start dieting?
>>Regards Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>It is my understanding that this limit is due to the strength of the
>>harness attachment points (including those in 2-seaters as well).
>>IIRC, there are a few newer gliders that may have the option of a
>>BRS (Ballistic Recovery System - a chute that recovers the whole
>>glider), which would allow you to use the seat without actually
>>wearing a chute. This will probably be an expensive solution
>>though, depending on your available budget.
>>
>>RO
>>
>>
>I'm thinking that a Genesis would do the trick if you can find one.
>Very large cockpit with a BRS too.
>
>RO
>
>

[[email protected]]

To answer about the V3 larger but oddly named "performance" cockpit. The V3M cockpit has a great deal of length and average depth but is slightly on the narrow side for broad pilots. Overall it is not as roomy as the JS1 or ASH26 cockpit. Two very tall and proportionately broad friends found it two tight for them across the hips or shoulders. One of those has a Discus 2cT which he is fine in in spite of it only being 2cm wider across the inside of the upper cockpit rim - mostly accounted for by a thicker cockpit rim structure as it looks as if the external dimension is the same.

[Rob[_10_]]

On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 1:45:24 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Hi, I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds and new to soaring. I've been looking at the possibilities open to me after I finish training and all single seaters have a cockpit rated to 110 kg, i.e. a 10 kilo allowance for a chute and a pilot around 100 kilo's max. As I am well over the limit with a chute is there any way out of this other than to start dieting? Regards Mark

Hi Mark,

You should be able to shed 20 lbs rather easily through Keto or some other low carb diet and keep it off if you're active and with intermittent fasting. I'm 6'7" and went from over 280 lbs down to 225 doing just that.

As for which gliders you'll fit in, I've also been doing my own research as I just finished my rating and looking to purchase my own glider. Here's what I found so far. I fit in the following gliders:

DG-300, 505 (very comfortable)
LS-3 and LS-4 (very comfortable)
Standard Jantar 2 (lots of legroom)
Standard Cirrus (adjusting the headrest, good room)
ASW-27 (need to adjust the panel for legroom - knees)
Mosquito (just barely)
Arcus M and T (two-ship, very comfortable, but $$$$$$)
L-33 Solo (very comfortable)
PW-5 (very comfortable as well with lots of headroom)


I'll be trying on a Kestrel, Open Cirrus, Nimbus and a Libelle.

Strangely, I did not fit in:

Grob 102 (legroom was fine, headroom - not even close)
PIK-20 (legroom was fine, headroom - not even close)
Russia (just no, but I understand some versions might work)

All in all, as tall guys, our choices get limited but doable.

Good luck!

[[email protected]]

My DG-303 Acro is great for heavier pilots. I have a brass tail wheel which really helps with the weight and balance. The Acro gives me a little more piece of mind.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 1:00:42 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:

> If the OP fits an ASW-20, he'll also fit an ASW-19 or a Centraire Pegase.
>
> The 19 and 20 used the same fuselage moulds....

As a caution, there's a lot more to cockpit ergonomics than the fuselage shape. The detail design of the cockpit, including the location of the wing and undercarriage anchors and control stick mechanism, can have a substantial effect on the effective anthropometric range. I know that the Centrair products started off as licensed copies of the AS gliders, but their design remained relatively static while Schleicher was continually incorporating minor changes.

As a general rule, the later versions of any particular type are often better than the earlier ones, as they tend to accumulate minor improvements that make more cockpit volume available.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 13:59:39 -0800, Bob Kuykendall wrote:

> On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 1:00:42 PM UTC-8, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
>> If the OP fits an ASW-20, he'll also fit an ASW-19 or a Centraire
>> Pegase.
>>
>> The 19 and 20 used the same fuselage moulds....
>
> As a caution, there's a lot more to cockpit ergonomics than the fuselage
> shape. The detail design of the cockpit, including the location of the
> wing and undercarriage anchors and control stick mechanism, can have a
> substantial effect on the effective anthropometric range. I know that
> the Centrair products started off as licensed copies of the AS gliders,
> but their design remained relatively static while Schleicher was
> continually incorporating minor changes.
>
> As a general rule, the later versions of any particular type are often
> better than the earlier ones, as they tend to accumulate minor
> improvements that make more cockpit volume available.


Sure, but I've enough time on a Peg 90 and ASW-20 to know that those two
cockpits are very similar. The ventilation difference is easily missed
unless you know about it. The only really noticeable change is that none
of the original 20s, i.e. not the B and C models) had a lifting panel,
while every Pegase I've seen had it fitted as standard. So did many
(most?) of the so-called 'F' model ASW-20s, which were license-built by
Centraire before they fitted a nice unflapped wing to the same fuselage
and called the result a Pegase 101. Incremental changes: the Peg 101s
originally had Hotelliers inside a tiny access hatch same as the 19 and
20 while the Peg 90 is entirely self-connecting.

If you look at the Pegase fuselage sides at about mid-chord under the
wings, and preferably at a shallow angle so you can see reflections
highlighting surface waviness, its quite easy to see where the ASW 19/20
NACA-style ventilation inlets used to be. I was told they'd modified the
moulds to do that: sounds reasonable since that would save finishing work
on each fuselage.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org