Tomcat question

[Dave in San Diego]

If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
segment in this video: http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html

Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.

Dave in San Diego

[MikeR]

"Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
. ..
> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
> effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
> associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
> segment in this video:
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>
> Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>
> Dave in San Diego




> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason,
I'm thinking auxiliary hydraulic or accessory hydraulic failure- I don't
recall which system feeds that IFR retract cylinder.

MikeR

[John Carrier]

Utility Hydraulic failure most likely. Or it's conceivable the system might
have failed in the electrical actuation of the hydraulics or the probe
actuator failed w/o compromising the util hyd system.

No impact on bringing the aircraft aboard normally. Wouldn't be pretty for
a barricade landing. Of course, there are speed restrictions probe deployed
.... which might seriously compromise continuation of the mission after
tanking.

R / John

"MikeR" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
>> effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
>> associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
>> segment in this video:
> http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>>
>> Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>>
>> Dave in San Diego
>
>
>
>
>> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason,
> I'm thinking auxiliary hydraulic or accessory hydraulic failure- I don't
> recall which system feeds that IFR retract cylinder.
>
> MikeR
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
> effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
> associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
> segment in this video:
> http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>

I have no experience with the F-14, but I'd wager with the probe extended
any external fuel would not transfer. On similar aircraft fuel is forced
out by engine bleed air, the tanks must obviously be unpressurized during
refueling.


>
> Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>

He identifies it as U. S. Navy.

[Mike W.]

I have no experience with any military aircraft, but I'd wager that no fuel
would transfer with the probe retracted, either. :)
>
> I have no experience with the F-14, but I'd wager with the probe extended
> any external fuel would not transfer. On similar aircraft fuel is forced
> out by engine bleed air, the tanks must obviously be unpressurized during
> refueling.
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Mike W." > wrote in message
...
>
> I have no experience with any military aircraft, but I'd wager that no
> fuel
> would transfer with the probe retracted, either. :)
>

Why not?

[MikeR]

"Mike W." > wrote in message
...
> I have no experience with any military aircraft, but I'd wager that no
fuel
> would transfer with the probe retracted, either. :)

Fuel transfer is not controlled by the position of the IFR probe- rather
directly controlled in the cockpit by the pilot (electrically controlled,
pneumatically actuated- just like a lot of other aircraft systems).

MikeR

[Raymond Marshall]

Mike W. wrote:
> I have no experience with any military aircraft, but I'd wager that no fuel
> would transfer with the probe retracted, either. :)

Previous poster was talking about transferring fuel out of the
external tanks to the engines... not from the tanker to the tomcat.

Ray

[Dave in San Diego]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in
.net:

>
> "Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what
>> other effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically
>> those associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum.
>> Relates to a segment in this video:
>> http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>>
>
> I have no experience with the F-14, but I'd wager with the probe
> extended any external fuel would not transfer. On similar aircraft
> fuel is forced out by engine bleed air, the tanks must obviously be
> unpressurized during refueling.
>
>
>>
>> Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>>
>
> He identifies it as U. S. Navy.

The info *on* the page was updated, but the link *to* the page still says
theairforcefun.html, as above.

Thanks for all the info guys. Got the question answered.

[Phormer Phighter Phlyer]

Dave in San Diego wrote:
> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
> effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
> associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
> segment in this video: http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>
> Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>
> Dave in San Diego

Never seen one that didn't but it was hydraulic/electrical. perhaps a
blown cb might cause it to stay out. Airspeed limits(350 kts??), need to
trim left rudder is all.

We had a F-124 come back with a basket stuck on the probe..when called
the ball'basketball', landed, pried it off.

Think the pilot had a new callsign-Zorro'...

[Red Rider]

"Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote in message
news:1111587624.681a10d55b98b3a62b5e0f6336053858@t eranews...
> Dave in San Diego wrote:
> > If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
> > effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
> > associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
> > segment in this video:
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
> >
> > Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
> >
> > Dave in San Diego
>
> Never seen one that didn't but it was hydraulic/electrical. perhaps a
> blown cb might cause it to stay out. Airspeed limits(350 kts??), need to
> trim left rudder is all.
>
> We had a F-124 come back with a basket stuck on the probe..when called
> the ball'basketball', landed, pried it off.
>
> Think the pilot had a new callsign-Zorro'...

I must plead ignorance, what is an F-124?

Red

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Red Rider" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> I must plead ignorance, what is an F-124?
>

Probably F-14 typed by someone with fat fingers.

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Red Rider" > wrote:

>"Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote

>> We had a F-124 come back with a basket stuck on the probe..when called
>> the ball'basketball', landed, pried it off.

>I must plead ignorance, what is an F-124?

The little known, and highly inefficient for any mission, "fat
finger" variant of the F-14.
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]

[MICHAEL OLEARY]

I don't remember if the Tomcat had the same issues as the Hornet with
shutting down an engine and losing the ability to extend the refueling
probe. If the aircraft had to shut down an engine, the pilot would extend
the probe prior to shutting it down. This allowed the aircraft to in flight
refuel if the pilot couldn't land the first couple of times. If the pilot
didn't extend it and couldn't land, the barricade was the next step if no
divert was available.
-Moe

"Dave in San Diego" > wrote in message
. ..
> If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
> effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
> associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
> segment in this video:
> http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>
> Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>
> Dave in San Diego

[Phormer Phighter Phlyer]

Red Rider wrote:
> "Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote in message
> news:1111587624.681a10d55b98b3a62b5e0f6336053858@t eranews...
>
>>Dave in San Diego wrote:
>>
>>>If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
>>>effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
>>>associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
>>>segment in this video:
>
> http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
>
>>>Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
>>>
>>>Dave in San Diego
>>
>>Never seen one that didn't but it was hydraulic/electrical. perhaps a
>>blown cb might cause it to stay out. Airspeed limits(350 kts??), need to
>>trim left rudder is all.
>>
>>We had a F-124 come back with a basket stuck on the probe..when called
>>the ball'basketball', landed, pried it off.
>>
>>Think the pilot had a new callsign-Zorro'...
>
>
> I must plead ignorance, what is an F-124?
>
> Red
>
>

C'mon, not all of us can tipe....

[Harry Andreas]

In article <JHm0e.9499$191.8337@trnddc02>, "MICHAEL OLEARY"
> wrote:

> I don't remember if the Tomcat had the same issues as the Hornet with
> shutting down an engine and losing the ability to extend the refueling
> probe. If the aircraft had to shut down an engine, the pilot would extend
> the probe prior to shutting it down. This allowed the aircraft to in flight
> refuel if the pilot couldn't land the first couple of times. If the pilot
> didn't extend it and couldn't land, the barricade was the next step if no
> divert was available.

Can you shut down an F-14 engine inflight?
I thought the asymmetric thrust was a particular problem for the Tom.
(I guess you CAN shut it down, but should you...without getting out?)

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

[John Carrier]

"Harry Andreas" > wrote in message
...
> In article <JHm0e.9499$191.8337@trnddc02>, "MICHAEL OLEARY"
> > wrote:
>
>> I don't remember if the Tomcat had the same issues as the Hornet with
>> shutting down an engine and losing the ability to extend the refueling
>> probe. If the aircraft had to shut down an engine, the pilot would
>> extend
>> the probe prior to shutting it down. This allowed the aircraft to in
>> flight
>> refuel if the pilot couldn't land the first couple of times. If the
>> pilot
>> didn't extend it and couldn't land, the barricade was the next step if no
>> divert was available.
>
> Can you shut down an F-14 engine inflight?
> I thought the asymmetric thrust was a particular problem for the Tom.
> (I guess you CAN shut it down, but should you...without getting out?)

Only done it a couple hundred times. It's a requirement during a post
maintenance check flight (albeit not all profiles). Also had a single
engine due to fuel control failure. Asymmetric thrust is only an issue slow
and at higher than prescribed angle of attack.

Do you really think that jettisoning the aircraft is the preferred
alternative to flying a single-engine approach?

R / John

[Phormer Phighter Phlyer]

Harry Andreas wrote:
>
>
> Can you shut down an F-14 engine inflight?
> I thought the asymmetric thrust was a particular problem for the Tom.
> (I guess you CAN shut it down, but should you...without getting out?)
>

Sure, did it all the time on PMCF..As long as yer not max blower,
shutting down an engine is no big deal. Even when in blower, and ya
snuff one, as long as you keep the nose below 10' of pitch and 'step on
the good engine', you will be allright.

[Red Rider]

"Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote in message
news:1111674457.fa7104556fdf935fd2ec081b44c35c01@t eranews...
> Red Rider wrote:
> > "Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote in message
> > news:1111587624.681a10d55b98b3a62b5e0f6336053858@t eranews...
> >
> >>Dave in San Diego wrote:
> >>
> >>>If the IFR probe won't retract, what's the usual reason, and what other
> >>>effects will that failure have on other systems, specifically those
> >>>associated with landing. Got asked that on another forum. Relates to a
> >>>segment in this video:
> >
> > http://www.big-boys.com/articles/theairforcefun.html
> >
> >>>Ignore the fact that the moron poster mistook this for AF stuff.
> >>>
> >>>Dave in San Diego
> >>
> >>Never seen one that didn't but it was hydraulic/electrical. perhaps a
> >>blown cb might cause it to stay out. Airspeed limits(350 kts??), need to
> >>trim left rudder is all.
> >>
> >>We had a F-124 come back with a basket stuck on the probe..when called
> >>the ball'basketball', landed, pried it off.
> >>
> >>Think the pilot had a new callsign-Zorro'...
> >
> >
> > I must plead ignorance, what is an F-124?
> >
> > Red
> >
> >
>
> C'mon, not all of us can tipe....

I am probably more embarrassed at not recognizing it as a typo than you are
at not being an accomplished typist.

Red

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Red Rider" > wrote:

>"Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote

>> Red Rider wrote:

>"Phormer Phighter Phlyer" > wrote

>> >>We had a F-124 come back with a basket stuck on the probe..when called
>> >>the ball'basketball', landed, pried it off.

>> > I must plead ignorance, what is an F-124?

>> C'mon, not all of us can tipe....

>I am probably more embarrassed at not recognizing it as a typo than you are
>at not being an accomplished typist.

Don't be, Red; you slim-fingered devil you.

In the old, manual typewriter days, hitting side-by-side keys
would result in only one, whichever got there first, getting
typed, or a jam of the typebars with nothing getting typed.

Electrics were iffy, they'd either emulate the manuals, or go on
strike. Disremember what selectrics and their ball did, USMC
never gave me one, and by the time I went civvie, the old
dedicated word-processors were the vogue in the beltway bandit
world.

It is only the modern computer keyboard which will slavishly put
both of the characters your fat finger hits onto the screen/into
the file.

All hail IBM for this technodigital advance.

[Bet Bill Gates is happy it can't be blamed on him.]
--
OJ III
[Email to Yahoo address may be burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast.]