Reamed out by Approach

[Bob Chilcoat]

Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411" a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

[Jose]

> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately

You could take the reverse approach of the controller asking the pilot
to call the tower. You could have called the tower after the flight and
pointed it out to him then, off freq.

I had a similar situation in NY airspace, where a controller claimed he
had been calling me all along and I should pay more attention - I was
paying attention and none of the calls sounded anything like my aircraft
or call number.

I just let it go though.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Julian Scarfe]

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> At this point he really reamed
> me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
> winter,
> but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
> it's
> really busy down here.", or words to that effect.

It's not possible, even for the most skilled pilots or controllers, to
improve the quality of day experienced by someone who is determined to have
a bad one. It is possible, however, to recognize when someone is having a
bad day, and you should realize that the others on frequency at the time
will have done so. Rest assured that you behaved correctly.

Julian

[Colin W Kingsbury]

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...

> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

Where I fly controllers sometimes use the abbreviation "November 123"
instead of the type, perhaps when they don't know the type. Sounds like that
might have been what you were getting. My understanding is that this is
considered acceptable though I always respond with my type even if they say
November.

I listen real close anytime I hear something that sounds like my callsign.
I'm 4955D and hear 5DD, 45D, 95D, etc all the time, often the second or
third time I correct them. Use the radio more often and you get a sense of
when they're calling you. If in doubt, wait a sec and ask, "Hey approach,
you calling Archer 511?"

Learn from the duck and let the water roll off your back. Maybe the
controller's wife read him the riot act on his way out the door that day and
he was just waiting for someone to tee off on. God knows they screw up
plenty often. If I ripped into them every time they flew me through the
localizer, etc. I'd get hoarse real fast. Getting nipped by ATC happens from
time to time; so long as their transmission doesn't end with a phone number,
I don't let it get to me. Some controllers are awesome, some are assholes,
and all are human.

-cwk.

[Bob Gardner]

When in doubt, ask. Rough estimate, I have been called by the wrong
type/callsign a gazillion times (corrected for inflation) and spoke up every
time. The consequences of making assumptions are too dire to do anything
else. I know that pilots get beat over the head with "be brief," "be
concise," "use correct terminology" to the point where they think long and
hard before grabbing the mike, but there are times when you have to bite the
bullet and ask questions/advise controllers using plain language.

If the controller is having a bad day, so be it. You cover your butt and
forget about his.

Bob Gardner


"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:
>
> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
> continued
> on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
> a
> couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
> exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
> announced
> that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
> airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
> heard
> a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
> someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
> nothing
> like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
> did
> start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
> for
> me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
> when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
> sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
> although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
> to
> "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
> Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
> having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
> these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
> with
> me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
> reamed
> me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
> winter,
> but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
> it's
> really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
> been
> listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
> spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
> about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
> frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
> completed the flight without further incidents.
>
> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
> not
> I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
> of
> the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
> to
> abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
> with
> the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
> saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
> confused.
>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
> might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
> an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
>
>

[C J Campbell]

You sure you weren't flying around Lawrenceville, GA? :-)

Sounds like some controllers could use a little training, at the very least.

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:

Really? Sure didn't sound that way to me.

> [...]
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
> might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
> an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

Sure, you could have been more proactive about checking on the call. But
the controller sure seemed to be discouraging that kind of behavior. I
don't think you can be blamed for trying to avoid yet another confrontation
with someone having a bad day.

Rarely, I have similar incidents. The most recent was at least a year ago,
when a controller accused me of transmitting the wrong tailnumber. As if
I'd forget the tailnumber of the airplane I have owned for ten years. She
was really peeved about it, but I figured that if she really wanted to make
a stink, the facts would be recorded somewhere. It sure wasn't worth
spending any time on frequency trying to argue about it.

Basically, my primary priority is to operate the airplane in a safe and
efficient manner. In VFR conditions, it's impossible for a controller to
screw that up for me unless I let them, and even in IFR conditions I can do
a pretty good job of managing the risk. Getting sucked into an irrelevant
"yes you did, no you didn't" argument on the radio is a great way to get
distracted from Job #1.

Frankly, I think you handled your situation about as well as anyone could be
expected to. You wouldn't have accomplished anything by trying to correct
or inform the controller on the radio. It sounds as though you basically
flew the airplane, kept yourself out of any big blow-ups, and completed the
flight safely. Which is what you're supposed to do. :)

Pete

[BTIZ]

reminds me of a flight a couple of weeks ago.. bringing in an airplane to
the local "in town" airport to get repairs... the controller never got the
call sign correct... Piper Pawnee, was anything but.. and transposing the
numbers and wrong alpha.. 11Z, 11V, Cessna... I had a good chuckle with
Ground Control as I taxied in.

of course.. this last week, bringing it in again... I found there is a
Cessna 11V stationed on the field... and of course I'm in Piper Pawnee 11Z..
and of course.. this time.. a different controller was on the ball and kept
it straight... only to have the real 11V answer up a call to me.. 11Z...

of course.. the is the same aircraft that landed behind me.. and nearly ran
me over in his hurry to get to the tie downs... cutting through a hanger row
instead of just playing follow the leader (cutting through hanger rows that
you do not have a hanger in is a no no).. plus his high taxi speed.. he met
me at the other end.. tires sliding to a stop before his prop hit my
wingtip...

I went and had a chat with the flight school that he rented from while he
tied down.. I would have spoken to him directly but he had two 10yr old kids
with him that did not need to hear a ranting pilot about near accidents and
improper taxi procedures.

BT

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:
>
> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
> continued
> on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
> a
> couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
> exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
> announced
> that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
> airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
> heard
> a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
> someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
> nothing
> like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
> did
> start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
> for
> me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
> when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
> sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
> although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
> to
> "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
> Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
> having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
> these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
> with
> me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
> reamed
> me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
> winter,
> but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
> it's
> really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
> been
> listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
> spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
> about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
> frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
> completed the flight without further incidents.
>
> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
> not
> I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
> of
> the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
> to
> abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
> with
> the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
> saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
> confused.
>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
> might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
> an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

Hi Bob;

You sound good to go to me. Try not to let yourself become intimidated in
heavy traffic. It's easy enough to do when things are coming at you verbally
at mach 3 and the controllers are a bit "overworked" :-)
What I've always done if the controllers are busy and a radio call comes
through during heavy volume traffic that I think is for me but could be
ambitious; is that I just wait for the right moment (a break in mike
activity) and simply ask in plain language if the call was for me. It's
better to make the extra call and clarify than to take a chance on an action
that might have been meant for someone else. After all has been said on it,
the controllers will appreciate you asking rather than waiting because you
were intimidated.
I think a lot of pilots get all wrapped up in constantly using proper
phraseology instead of going for clarification when these ambiguities crop
up from time to time in heavy traffic. Not that proper radio procedure isn't
important, but it's just that sometimes clarification in plain English will
suffice.
Actually, in fifty years of flying, I can't honestly say that I ever
remember having a controller flip out on me for laying a clarification out
there in plain English.
Dudley



"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:
>
> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
> continued
> on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
> a
> couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
> exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
> announced
> that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
> airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
> heard
> a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
> someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
> nothing
> like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
> did
> start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
> for
> me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
> when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
> sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
> although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
> to
> "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
> Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
> having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
> these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
> with
> me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
> reamed
> me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
> winter,
> but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
> it's
> really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
> been
> listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
> spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
> about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
> frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
> completed the flight without further incidents.
>
> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
> not
> I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
> of
> the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
> to
> abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
> with
> the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
> saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
> confused.
>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
> might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
> an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
>
>

[Mike W.]

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:
<SNIP>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
After you hear a call you think might be for you, and you get that feeling
that they may have forgot about you, yes by all means ask if the call is for
you. Like he said, they may be a little tired and overloaded.

'bravo 511, squawk 1200 and contact state'

'columbus approach, was that call for (full call sign)?'

this does three things. if the guy lost your puck or forgot about you, it
puts your tail number back in his head. It also lets him know you are paying
attention. nothing gets a controller hot faster when he has pilots zooming
around a busy airspace that seem to be daydreaming. it also lets you know
for sure if he's talking to you or not.

don't be afraid, ask! that's their job.

[Jim Burns]

How about this one....
I'm headed direct from Lawrenceville, GA, to Rockford, IL, get clost to
RFD and amend destination to Adams, WI, which is about 335 degrees from RFD.
I get "Direct RFD, then Direct Adams"
2 minutes later I get Direct JVL, Janesville, WI (SE of Madison) then Direct
Adams
So I turn about 20 degrees east and head towards JVL
2 minutes later I get Direct current position to Adams
I thank them and turn about 30 degrees left and head for Adams
Now I'm perfectly lined up with Adams with Madison dead in my sites.
The controller asks me if I"m going to pass east or west of Madison.
I say, neither, I'll be right on top of them.
(he's wondering which freq to hand me off to)
He calls again, N6205Y will you be east or west of Madison?
I say Madison is directly enroute from my present position
Silence.
Then he says N6205Y are you on this frequency? How do you read? will you be
east or west of Madison?
I turn 10 degrees left and call back "N6205Y will now be passing west of
Madison"
He turns me over to MSN West approach.

I don't know why he couldn't have turned me over to MSN East ( I was on the
south east side of MSN) and let them worry about me.

Jim

[Grumman 236]

Again he called the same aircraft, which
> sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be
for me,
> although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third
call to
> "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on
118.8."
> Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd
never
> having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him
if
> these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you
still with
> me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511."

Any chance your squelch was set too high? That can cause the first
syllable or two of an incomming call to be clipped off, distorting the
sound of the message. It might sound like the controller starts talking
before keying the mic. Ask me how I know...

[[email protected]]

Hi Bob,

You handled very well, nothing nasty happend so let it go.
Things like this happens all the time, in the air or not.
It is spring for the controller as well, and he is sitting in a dark
room looking at a screen, you did the flying.
He was just jealous.

A similair thing happend to me and I'm still do not know what went
wrong.
One day I had to make a flight from Germany to Holland.
International flights means filing a flight plan even if you are VFR.
My route was over Germany, Holland, Belgium and Holland again.
So I faxed my flight plan, departure was from a small airfield.
In the air I activated it and that went right.
Crossing the Dutch border gave no problems.
Arriving at the Belgian border I called Brussels Information with of
course my call sign D-EDMB and intensions.
Answer: DMB bla bla bla QNH 1019
Me: DMB bla bla bla QNH 1019.
Ok that went well.
After about 10 minutes they start to call an OMB.
Well thats not me, I thought.
And they keep trying to contact a OMB every 5 minues or so.
Nearing the Dutch border I requested to change freq. (thats about 25
min. later)
Them: DMB, Freg. change approved, and we tried to contact you for 20
minutes.
Me: DMB, Freq. change approved, well, I'm DMB, I only heard calls to
OMB.
Them: Oh, goodbye.
Me: Goodbye, DMB.
Holland went right again though.

What happend here?
They have a flight plan for a D-EDMB, the first call went right.
I do not get it.

-Kees

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Bob Chilcoat > posted:

> Mea culpa:
>
> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
> continued on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic
> for "Archer 411" a couple of times, so I asked if he was calling
> "Archer 44511". He seemed exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I
> immediately spotted and announced that "511 has traffic".
>
[...]
>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a
> call might be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the
> aircraft type an official part of the call? Any other actions I
> should have taken?
>
Perhaps you shouldn't take this so personally. In addition to being one of
Ohio's busiest airports, OSU is a training field with many students that
at times create traffic headaches. I have encountered similarly
exasperated controllers at OSU, and just had to realize that they were
having a bad day. I'm pretty sure the guy didn't go home and complain to
his wife about "Archer 511".

Regards,

Neil

[Jackal24]

I wouldn't take it personally either. From my experience, that is just
the way the Columbus controllers are. Fly down south a little bit and
Dayton and Cincy both have extremely helpful controllers, but Columbus is
a different story.

"Neil Gould" > wrote in
m:

> Recently, Bob Chilcoat > posted:
>
>> Mea culpa:
>>
>> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
>> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
>> continued on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic
>> for "Archer 411" a couple of times, so I asked if he was calling
>> "Archer 44511". He seemed exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I
>> immediately spotted and announced that "511 has traffic".
>>
> [...]
>>
>> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a
>> call might be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the
>> aircraft type an official part of the call? Any other actions I
>> should have taken?
>>
> Perhaps you shouldn't take this so personally. In addition to being
> one of Ohio's busiest airports, OSU is a training field with many
> students that at times create traffic headaches. I have encountered
> similarly exasperated controllers at OSU, and just had to realize that
> they were having a bad day. I'm pretty sure the guy didn't go home and
> complain to his wife about "Archer 511".
>
> Regards,
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>

[OtisWinslow]

If you're sure of what transpired call the controller on the land line
and suggest that you and he and his supervisor listen to the tapes.
We pay them .. there's no excuse for them to treat us shabbily.


"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:
>
> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
> continued
> on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
> a
> couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
> exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
> announced
> that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
> airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
> heard
> a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
> someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
> nothing
> like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
> did
> start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
> for
> me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
> when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
> sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
> although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
> to
> "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
> Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
> having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
> these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
> with
> me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
> reamed
> me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
> winter,
> but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
> it's
> really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
> been
> listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
> spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
> about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
> frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
> completed the flight without further incidents.
>
> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
> not
> I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
> of
> the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
> to
> abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
> with
> the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
> saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
> confused.
>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
> might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
> an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
>
>

[Nathan Young]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:51:05 -0500, "Bob Chilcoat"
> wrote:

>I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
>Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and continued
>on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411" a
>couple of times,

Two comments:

1. Anytime I hear a callsign remotely like mine go answered and get
repeated, I will speak up. Always better to ask a question than to go
on confused.

2. Controllers are human too, and therefore make mistakes.
Sometimes, pilots get blamed for the controllers' mistakes. Since we
pilots strive for excellence in all aspects of our flying - we want to
be exonerated on the air, but it just doesn't work that way. Better
to shrug it off, stay in command of the plane, and learn what you can
from the situation.

I don't think you can fault the controllers for occasionally
misdirecting blame at a GA pilot. It is a learned response - driven
heavily by their interaction with the those GA pilots who have no clue
how to go about flying in B,C,D airspace and/or interact with ATC.
Spend enough time listening to ATC and you will be amazed at some of
the things GA pilots say and do.

-Nathan

[Bob Chilcoat]

No, the radio was working perfectly, and I heard all other calls very
clearly. I think he was just rushing his calls because he felt overworked.
(He actually didn't seem that busy, concidering that there was plenty of
dead air on the frequency, but who knows). Someone at the OSU FBO said that
they use Columbus to train a lot of controllers, so he may have been a bit
green.

Thanks for all the kind words, everyone. I'm a "just-short-of-300-hour"
pilot, and don't have thousands of hours of experience to draw from. Hey,
it's a license to learn, and I'm still learning a lot. :-)

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Grumman 236" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Again he called the same aircraft, which
> > sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be
> for me,
> > although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third
> call to
> > "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on
> 118.8."
> > Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd
> never
> > having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him
> if
> > these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you
> still with
> > me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511."
>
> Any chance your squelch was set too high? That can cause the first
> syllable or two of an incomming call to be clipped off, distorting the
> sound of the message. It might sound like the controller starts talking
> before keying the mic. Ask me how I know...
>

[Dave Butler]

Jose wrote:
>> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit
>> more
>> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
>> immediately
>
>
> You could take the reverse approach of the controller asking the pilot
> to call the tower. You could have called the tower after the flight and
> pointed it out to him then, off freq.

Good answer. On the freq, you can just say "please give me your phone number".

[Dave Butler]

Jackal24 wrote:
> I wouldn't take it personally either. From my experience, that is just
> the way the Columbus controllers are.

I was gonna say the same thing. I guess it's not just me, then.

DGB

[SFM]

Sounds like the Tampa controllers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
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MI-150972
PP-ASEL-IA

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-----------------------------------
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"I can accept that Bush won the election. What I have a hard time
swallowing is that I live in a country where more than half the
population is willfully ignorant, politically obstinate, religiously
prejudiced, and embarrassingly gullible."

-------------------------------------
"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Mea culpa:
>
> I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
> Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued
> on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
a
> couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
> exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
announced
> that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
> airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
heard
> a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
> someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
> like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
did
> start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
for
> me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
> when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
> sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
> although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
to
> "Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
> Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
> having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
> these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
with
> me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
reamed
> me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
> but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
> really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
been
> listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
> spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
> about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
> frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
> completed the flight without further incidents.
>
> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
> I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
of
> the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
to
> abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
with
> the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
> saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
> confused.
>
> I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
> be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
> official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
>
>

[Jon S]

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
> careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
> immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
> I was still with him.


OK, here's my 2 cents:

A lot could be going on here, most of it probably not your fault. He could
be having a bad day, he could have a bad microphone that garbled his words,
he could be overloaded. What you want to do is give the facility the
information that might help fix the problem, while protecting yourself.

So, before going over to the tower, I would ask approach for his initials.
Every controller has working initials that identify him at that facility and
he is required to give them to you if you request them.

After you land, write down the time and frequency that it occurred so you
don't forget it, along with a few reminders of what happened so your memory
remains fresh. The next business day, call the facility and ask to speak to
the facility chief (NOT the controller). Explain the situation, making sure
that you remain constructive rather than trying to trash the controller. You
should sound calm, professional, understanding, and concerned about aviation
safety. You will almost certainly find that the chief is interested in the
same things. By giving him the scenario, he can look into the problem and
maybe fix it or at least alleviate it some. If it's a problem of not enough
controllers and his budget is maxed out he may not be able to do much but at
least he can talk to the controller and you may give him some ammunition to
put behind a budget increase request.

If you give the chief the time and the frequency and the controller's
initials he can listen to the tapes, which may help him analyze the problem.
You should also give the chief your phone number and be willing to accept a
call from him with some constructive criticism of you. As long as there is
no enforcement action (and unless a separation error resulted from something
you did, that's extremely unlikely), everybody learns and everybody wins.

Jon

[John Galban]

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
> Mea culpa:
>
<snip>
> I next heard
> a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there
must be
> someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
> like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot
<snip>

If you hear a call for "Brsst 511" or "Bravo 511" and your tail
number ends in "511" you can safely assume it's for you. If there are
two aircraft operating with the same or similar abreviated callsigns,
the controller is supposed to advise both aircraft and use the full
callsign for each aircraft.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Helen Woods]

Call the number. Ask to talk to the SUPERVISOR. Tell him/her what you
told us.

Helen

[Dylan Smith]

In article . com>, wrote:
> Them: DMB, Freg. change approved, and we tried to contact you for 20
> minutes.
> Me: DMB, Freq. change approved, well, I'm DMB, I only heard calls to
> OMB.
> What happend here?
> They have a flight plan for a D-EDMB, the first call went right.
> I do not get it.

On the crappy 9-pin dotmatrix teleprinters that ATC still use (printers
I saw British Rail using 15 years ago), the letter D and O look very
similar.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[G. Sylvester]

> If you hear a call for "Brsst 511" or "Bravo 511" and your tail
> number ends in "511" you can safely assume it's for you.

that's a good assumption but don't assume, you should ask. On Norcal
appch over Hayward Airport, I was cleared to 4000. I read it back
and heard nothing. We then heard a HP 737 inbound to OAK cleared
to 4000. I said to my CFII if he could see the jet as I was under
the hood. He then asked and we were not cleared but a very similarly
sounded call sign was. No separation issues but if it were IMC,
it could have created a very dangerous area as we were flying
in the area of 3 cless C, a class B and 4 class D airports. Always
ask and don't assume.


>If there are
> two aircraft operating with the same or similar abreviated callsigns,
> the controller is supposed to advise both aircraft and use the full
> callsign for each aircraft.

'supposed to' but not required.

Gerald

[John Galban]

G. Sylvester wrote:
> >If there are
> > two aircraft operating with the same or similar abreviated
callsigns,
> > the controller is supposed to advise both aircraft and use the full
> > callsign for each aircraft.
>
> 'supposed to' but not required.

Yes it is required. From the ATC handbook, Order 7110.65P :

2-4-9. ABBREVIATED TRANSMISSIONS

Transmissions may be abbreviated as follows:

a. Use the identification prefix and the last 3 digits or letters of
the aircraft identification after communications have been established.
Do not abbreviate similar sounding aircraft identifications or the
identification of an air carrier or other civil aircraft having an FAA
authorized call sign.


AND...

2-4-15. EMPHASIS FOR CLARITY

Emphasize appropriate digits, letters, or similar sounding words to aid
in distinguishing between similar sounding aircraft identifications.
Additionally:

a. Notify each pilot concerned when communicating with aircraft having
similar sounding identifications.

EXAMPLE-
"United Thirty-one United, Miami Center, U.S. Air Thirty-one is also on
this frequency, acknowledge."

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)