The Decline of Soaring Awards

[John Foster]

I read the recent article in Soaring and it has got me fired up. I have been a member of a small club in Washington State for the last 2 years, learning to fly. The club has a 2-33 and a Lark and a Pawnee. That's it. Badge flying has not been an emphasis, even though one qualifies for at least the A badge once you solo. Part of the reason is that there is very little emphasis on cross-country flying, mostly because most of the club pilots don't like flying the Lark, and it is too big of an ordeal to disassemble the 2-33 and transport back to the airport should an off-field landing occur.. As a result, most people just fly the 2-33 in circles around the airport, never venturing outside gliding distance. The club has been in the market for a decent glass two-seater to do cross-country flying with, but there is no budget for this. And the one CFIG is getting about ready to hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.

At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.

Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.

So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

[2G]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 8:57:12 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
> I read the recent article in Soaring and it has got me fired up. I have been a member of a small club in Washington State for the last 2 years, learning to fly. The club has a 2-33 and a Lark and a Pawnee. That's it. Badge flying has not been an emphasis, even though one qualifies for at least the A badge once you solo. Part of the reason is that there is very little emphasis on cross-country flying, mostly because most of the club pilots don't like flying the Lark, and it is too big of an ordeal to disassemble the 2-33 and transport back to the airport should an off-field landing occur. As a result, most people just fly the 2-33 in circles around the airport, never venturing outside gliding distance. The club has been in the market for a decent glass two-seater to do cross-country flying with, but there is no budget for this. And the one CFIG is getting about ready to hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.
>
> At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.
>
> Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.
>
> So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

You can always form a partnership with 1-3 other club members and buy a single seater. You can fly the Lark cross-country - you just have to arrange the flight such that a landout is at another airport where you can aerotow. I flew a Blanik L-13 cross-country before buying an ASW19. There is no particular magic to flying cross-country; it is just your normal flying out of gliding range of your home airport. PM me if you are interested in other tips (I am also in WA).

Tom

[John Foster]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 10:19:59 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
> On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 8:57:12 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
> > I read the recent article in Soaring and it has got me fired up. I have been a member of a small club in Washington State for the last 2 years, learning to fly. The club has a 2-33 and a Lark and a Pawnee. That's it. Badge flying has not been an emphasis, even though one qualifies for at least the A badge once you solo. Part of the reason is that there is very little emphasis on cross-country flying, mostly because most of the club pilots don't like flying the Lark, and it is too big of an ordeal to disassemble the 2-33 and transport back to the airport should an off-field landing occur. As a result, most people just fly the 2-33 in circles around the airport, never venturing outside gliding distance. The club has been in the market for a decent glass two-seater to do cross-country flying with, but there is no budget for this. And the one CFIG is getting about ready to hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.
> >
> > At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.
> >
> > Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it..
> >
> > So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?
>
> You can always form a partnership with 1-3 other club members and buy a single seater. You can fly the Lark cross-country - you just have to arrange the flight such that a landout is at another airport where you can aerotow.. I flew a Blanik L-13 cross-country before buying an ASW19. There is no particular magic to flying cross-country; it is just your normal flying out of gliding range of your home airport. PM me if you are interested in other tips (I am also in WA).
>
> Tom

Those are good ideas. Thanks. How do you solve the problem of the CFIG not willing or able to teach cross-country though?

[Mark Morwood]

I'm not a lot more experienced than you. My regular club is busier than yours, but suburban so actual outlandings are not a good option. We do have a very good relationships with a sister club where we go for cross-country flying. However we still always train our students locally to be prepared for an outlanding as you can always make a mistake with the conditions.

In terms of training/preparation, you can still do a lot within gliding range of your club. You can get trained in outlandings, even if just by judicious use of areas of your airfield you don't normally land on. You can also set yourself mini-tasks that fly around the airfield in a triangle or box with the airfield in the middle. You'll still get the experience of trying to go a distance without just sitting in a thermal once you find it.

[[email protected]]

John you brought up a common issue. I second Marks advise. You can actually train all of the skills needed to fly xc right there within safe gliding distance from your home field without the need for an expensive two place ship. Short field and spot landings, effecient entry-coring-leaving thermals, choosing and monitoring cruising speed, calculating and flying final glides can all be taught using your 2-33 albit you need some relatively decent soaring wx days. I have actually done this with my restored 2-22. A nice 30 mile triangle can be flown in a low performance trainer and never be more than 5 miles away from the home field. Having a xc experienced and willing CFI is not necessary. Any experienced xc flier can demonstrate the skills needed sitting back seat in your 2-33. He can also lead in the 2-33 while an inexperienced guy follows in the Lark.

As for an inexpensive xc bird, the 1-26 was actually designed around the very idea your club is struggling with. They were designed to be inexpensive, easy to fly, very easy to land in small fields and easy to crew for and of performance for guys to pursue badges up thru gold. It was intended to be the first xc ship for club use. Incidentally, the 1-26 is still responsible for earning more silver and gold badges than any other machine here in North America. Many of us have pursued the challenge of doing much more with these birds with a couple hundred guys earning all three diamonds in one, and if the xc bug really hits a club member, we have our own regional 1-26 records and a national Championship every year.

So John, there is hope and right now you pretty much have what you need to get the ball rolling at xc already in hand. You can get guys going xc without laying out big bucks for the glass.

Our club was in the same position when I moved here. We have a blanik for training and a 1-26 that was not being utilized much. Our club guys who did’nt own there own ship were slightly interested in xc but all thought it would take having a much higher performing ship. I started showing the guys what fun I could have with a 1-26 and lo n behold, now two years later we have four 1-26’s flying here along with a group of club guys taking the club ship to this years 1-26 Championships. Good luck John, any help I can lend to you guys, just drop me a line.
Dan
Dan

[[email protected]]

Correction, 40 guys have all 3 diamonds earned in a 1-26, and about 200 earning distance, alt or diamond goal legs in a 1-26.

[Mike N.]

If you can find a copy for sale on eBay the book: Soaring For Diamonds is a great read. About flying 1-26 to various levels of badges, including Diamond.
This is the 1st book I read about soaring and really fired up my imagination.
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/SoaringForDiamonds/SoaringForDiamonds.htm

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

John Foster wrote on 3/23/2020 8:57 PM:
> I read the recent article in Soaring and it has got me fired up. I have been a member of a small club in Washington State for the last 2 years, learning to fly. The club has a 2-33 and a Lark and a Pawnee. That's it. Badge flying has not been an emphasis, even though one qualifies for at least the A badge once you solo. Part of the reason is that there is very little emphasis on cross-country flying, mostly because most of the club pilots don't like flying the Lark, and it is too big of an ordeal to disassemble the 2-33 and transport back to the airport should an off-field landing occur.. As a result, most people just fly the 2-33 in circles around the airport, never venturing outside gliding distance. The club has been in the market for a decent glass two-seater to do cross-country flying with, but there is no budget for this. And the one CFIG is getting about ready to hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.
>
> At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.
>
> Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.
>
> So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

I couldn't find your name on the SSA member list, but it sounds like you might be
flying from Wenatchee. That's a lovely area to fly locally with ridge, wave and
thermals, and a good place to start a XC flight.

Why don't the members like the Lark? And why hasn't it been sold or replaced with
a glider people like?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Daniel Sazhin[_2_]]

Hey John,

Two thoughts:

1) 1-26 (or any other cheap, forgiving glider)
2) Condor

You can do XC in any sailplane. Sure, the high performance super-ships are good for racing *in a special class*. But to get involved in XC flying, you don't need to worry about that.

A forgiving, low to mid-performance single-seater that has a decent trailer is all you need to have a really good time and get people going cross country.

Regarding training, there are two major components. The first is building soaring skills. Getting the Bronze Badge and Silver Climb/Duration are usually good benchmarks for that. They can be done in the comfort and safety of one's home airport.

The cross country training aspect can be done in the simulator. The biggest thing really is dealing with off-field landings. You can use the simulator to demonstrate all sorts of different scenarios in all sorts of fields.

The actual "getting out of gliding distance" part is not all that important to demonstrate. You certainly could, in a Lark. It would be a great experience too. Just fly on a decent day and go toward a neighboring airport. If you get uncomfortable, land there and aerotow back. I just did a short XC over the past weekend in a 2-33... went 9 miles away and then flew with a young pilot. He had a blast!

Feel free to contact me if you want any further details on how my club gets people through the program.

Also, if any club would like to get a Condor XC-training program going, I'd be happy to facilitate. I can work one-on-one with people, or train the coaches/mentors how to use the tools effectively.

All the best,
Daniel

[Daniel Sazhin[_2_]]

Oh and PS: The 2-33 actually goes apart much more easily than you would think. You just need the will, practice, and a larger crew.

Recently, we got our 2-33 apart in less than an hour when it landed out.... and then together in 45 minutes. It helped that we had about nine people involved and several teams working on the wings, horizontal stabilizer, and trailer.

And we were not exactly a well oiled machine; we don't take the ship apart often exactly. If the kit and people involved had more practice, we probably could have had half the people and done it almost twice as fast.

Bobby Templin used to own his own personal 2-33 and he would land out in it without much second thought. He had some tools with him to prep the horizontal stabilizer, take off the skylight and panels to get to the controls and wing pins.

By the time the crew showed up (3 or 4 people?), it was just a matter of simply pulling the struts and wings off and putting them on the trailer. He had it down to a science!

This is not to say that the 2-33 is a super-duper XC training machine. But you COULD do XC training in it. You could land out in it. In fact, the high wing, fabric fuselage and metal wings make it very robust against crops or other kinds of damage.

My point is that a lot of XC flying is simply going out there, doing it, and figuring out how to overcome your own unique obstacles. If there's a will, there's a way.

All the best,
Daniel

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

On 3/24/2020 4:31 AM, Mike N. wrote:
> If you can find a copy for sale on eBay the book: Soaring For Diamonds is a
> great read. About flying 1-26 to various levels of badges, including
> Diamond. This is the 1st book I read about soaring and really fired up my
> imagination.
> https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/books/SoaringForDiamonds/SoaringForDiamonds.htm

Much good, basic feedback/advice from others already. Two - somewhat redundant
- points for consideration: 1) XC *can* be safely (and satisfyingly and
'funly') self-taught with a modicum of common sense (don't hit things you
don't want to hit; don't put yourself in the position of 'being *forced*' to
hit things you don't want to hit; fly within your existing skills, and *not*
within some imagined 'XC-necessary' skills; etc.), and 2) high L/D (whatever
that may mean to any individual) is *NOT* fundamentally necessary to going XC.
And as I'm sure others will be eager to point out, YMMV and a person *can*
kill themselves in soaring by doing things in a less-than-sensible fashion.
Don't do what they did, and remember - perfection is never an option. Live
life accordionly...

"Soaring for Diamonds" was the first book I found in a library after bumbling
into soaring way back when. Great read! Years later I obtained a copy for
myself. Minor reviewer's nit - Joe Lincoln (author) was "up to" a 1-23 by the
time he bagged his diamonds. He didn't really *need* it, I suspect he was just
impatient!

I trained in a small club in the MD mountains; it trained in a 2-33 and had a
1-26 and a member-owned tug. No XC training per se that I ever noticed, just
basic inputs from my instructor, mostly in response to my questions. My
instructor was an old guy of about 30 who - I later (after my first landout)
learned - had built his own 1-26 from a kit. So far as I could tell, he seemed
to know about what he taught...which emphasized the basics: don't stall in the
pattern; pick a decent field if you're gonna have to land out *before* you're
down to pattern altitude; you're in charge - so act like it. It was sufficient
when soon after solo I bumbled my way into needing to make an off-airport
landing...without even trying to! Other than the elevated heart rate and
sweaty palms (telling 'em to stop didn't help, ha ha), it was little different
than landing at the airport - every late-training/subsequent-solo approach to
which had been an intentional short-field approach over a pretend obstacle.

Result? Successful OFL; no damage; greatly increased belief in what ye
instructor had been telling me! Never looked back. Began ownership by
partnering with instructor and another newbie new glider-only pilot in
instructor's 1-26; soon enough 'was forced to' (job location change) purchase
a 1-26 outright in which I (unofficially) completed my Silver Badge.

Have been amused ever since by pundits convinced - as judged by their
willingness to share their opinions - XC is impossible in (used to be) <30:1,
and is today seemingly <35/1 or even 40/1 ships. The late great Dick Johnson
begged to differ (cf: old "Soaring" mags; superb resource!), as do I, members
of the 1-26 Association, Uneek (also with a Most Excellent article in the
latest "Soaring" mag as well as a longish history on RAS of fundamentally
sensible soaring-/XC-/pilot-centric food for thought. And no, I've never met
the man...)

It's been interesting to infer your own soaring-centric growth over the past
few years on RAS, John F. Best of continued luck!

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Dan Marotta]

Well, I was on your side until you said, "retired old men sitting on a
nest egg".Â* That's a perfect description of me.Â* I worked long and hard
for what I have and I deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of a lot of
today's younger folk.

Having said that, I and a lot of my peers, learned cross country soaring
on our own, by trial and error, or with a mentor who would lead or
follow along on a flight and give advice.Â* Take a look at the cross
country soaring chapter of The American Soaring Handbook. There's all
the information you need to fly cross country.Â* And, no, it's not to my
knowledge available for display on your smart phone. Get off your ass,
quit complaining, and do something for yourself.

I know it's hard to hear that, but you can't always be led by the nose.

On 3/23/2020 9:57 PM, John Foster wrote:
> I read the recent article in Soaring and it has got me fired up. I have been a member of a small club in Washington State for the last 2 years, learning to fly. The club has a 2-33 and a Lark and a Pawnee. That's it. Badge flying has not been an emphasis, even though one qualifies for at least the A badge once you solo. Part of the reason is that there is very little emphasis on cross-country flying, mostly because most of the club pilots don't like flying the Lark, and it is too big of an ordeal to disassemble the 2-33 and transport back to the airport should an off-field landing occur. As a result, most people just fly the 2-33 in circles around the airport, never venturing outside gliding distance. The club has been in the market for a decent glass two-seater to do cross-country flying with, but there is no budget for this. And the one CFIG is getting about ready to hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.
>
> At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.
>
> Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.
>
> So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

--
Dan, 5J

[Bret Hess]

I agree with Daniel. I did all my XC training on Condor, and went on my first XC flight in a Grob a year after my rating. XC training is about decision making.

Fly Condor with TeamXC. You get about 4 hrs of XC training a week.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 08:13:15 -0600, Bob Whelan wrote:

> Much good, basic feedback/advice from others already. Two - somewhat
> redundant - points for consideration: 1) XC *can* be safely (and
> satisfyingly and 'funly') self-taught with a modicum of common sense
> (don't hit things you don't want to hit; don't put yourself in the
> position of 'being *forced*' to hit things you don't want to hit; fly
> within your existing skills, and *not* within some imagined
> 'XC-necessary' skills; etc.), and 2) high L/D (whatever that may mean to
> any individual) is *NOT* fundamentally necessary to going XC.

Agreed. From personal experience, I think flying mini-triangles is very
useful for a flegling XC pilot. It gives yoyu experience in navigating to
the next point in a self-declared task while remaining close to your home
airfields and its as good a way as any to discover that you don't need to
take *every* thermal you come to while you're learning to efficiently
find, center and climb in the better thermals.

Something that worked for me, anyway, was to not worry about XC speed
until you have taught yourself to get high and stay high rather than
periodically having to stop and dig yourself out of a hole or even land
out. So, don't worry too much about XC speed until you have learned the
trick of staying high - learning that dramatically reduced my landout
rate.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Joel Flamenbaum[_2_]]

hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.
>
> At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.
>
> Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.
>
> So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

For the most part I agree with Mr Foster and the plight of small soaring clubs. However, I do take major exception with his last remark regarding "retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough (to) afford a new JS3 or Arcus M" - First but not foremost I am an old man 77 years of age and I passionately love aviation, particularly soaring. I have been blessed to have owned an older 2-33 and a used LS3a for too brief a time - Secondly, I have never been able to "sit on a nest egg" With luck my current nest egg (COVID19 aside)just might enable me to buy a high time 1-26. So John I am asking that if you know of anyone including yourself that would be willing to underwrite a small loan so I could die a happy man and fly an Arcus before I croak. Written with some humor.

[Marton KSz]

I found it really difficult to get into XC flying locally, even at a club that was well staffed with great CFIs.
The solution was to join another club, that was located at one of the best soaring sites in the U.S. in Nevada. The instructors of my club were happy to teach XC flying there, but the prerequisite was really the location and the conditions.

I would encourage you to get to some good soaring sites (Ephrata, WA) in the summer where you can get a good feel of XC flying, or visit a well-established soaring site down south for e.g. two weeks.

On the other side, some clubs make weird decisions that make them look like a commercial-like operations and indirectly prevents their growth. E.g. they're not implementing a good, long-term financial plan to cover club glider accidents, but make pilots-at-fault responsible to pay a huge lump sum if something goes bad; this makes perfect sense for all the wealthy JS3 owners who already pay $500 for insurance, but just scares young generation pilots away.

[Dave Walsh[_2_]]

Wearing my old foggies hat, a question: why is it necessary to
have an expensive glass two seater to teach cross country? I seem
to remember it was possible to set off on cross country in a "low"
performance single seater. Of course it resulted in field landings
and was a desperately slow way to learn. But it was the norm a
few decades ago; some instructors even flew X-country in K13s.
The extra costs of long aerotow retrieves from failed attempts are
very minor costs compared with the Club funding an Arcus Turbo.

I think a key issue is the mind-set of the Club instructors & X-
country pilots: a good Club is Key.

PS This method is probably why I am still so poor at X-country.

[John Foster]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Well, I was on your side until you said, "retired old men sitting on a
> nest egg".Â* That's a perfect description of me.Â* I worked long and hard
> for what I have and I deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of a lot of
> today's younger folk.
>
> Having said that, I and a lot of my peers, learned cross country soaring
> on our own, by trial and error, or with a mentor who would lead or
> follow along on a flight and give advice.Â* Take a look at the cross
> country soaring chapter of The American Soaring Handbook. There's all
> the information you need to fly cross country.Â* And, no, it's not to my
> knowledge available for display on your smart phone. Get off your ass,
> quit complaining, and do something for yourself.
>
> I know it's hard to hear that, but you can't always be led by the nose.

> Dan, 5J

Thanks for your feedback, Dan. I apologize if I offended you (or anyone else that resembles that remark). That was not my intent. However, I am frustrated by the rising cost of so many things in soaring. I too, deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of so many younger folks today, and my comment about the nest egg was in no way intended to sound demanding of a hand-out, but rather that it is getting more difficult to start something or branch out from the normal operations unless you are sitting on a pile of money.

The idea of practicing with Condor really appeals to me. So does the idea of using a 1-26. However, here again, the price seems to be slowly climbing for a decent one of these too. Tackling the problem of instructors who feel incapable of teaching XC--well that's another matter I guess. But I like the idea of partnering with another member who does do XC to sit in the back seat of the 2-33.

[Curt Lewis - 95]

Just to jump in with SGS 1-26 comments..
There may be some reluctant to consider the 1-26 as a "cross-country machine" for being more difficult to achieve what they may consider "cross-country distance". Remember that the performance handicap on the 1-26 is 1.65 ..... therefore a 30 mile flight (even close-in triangle) in a 1-26 is a comparable accomplishment to a 50 mile flight in an older standard class glider. That's pretty respectable for a beginner!

So be be proud of those shorter 1-26 XC flights. I own/race a Genesis and a 1-26. Some of my most rewarding flights have been in the 1-26.

Always remember that one of the benefits of XC in the 1-26 is that your probably going to land out closer to home :)

Curt Lewis
ASEL-CFIG
Genesis 2
1-26B

[[email protected]]

John early A and B models can be had pretty reasonably. I just got a B for 4k. Sure shes dirty n needs sprucing up but nothing major. Great thing about these birds is the ratty ones perform just as good as the clean ones, its the guy sitting behind the stick that matters lol.

Even if u find one that needs some fabric work, that is not expensive and u can do it yourself with a little tutoring in your garage. If/when u get serious about finding a 1-26 drop me a line. I will be happy to help u find one and also put u intouch with some 1-26 guys up in WA.
Dan

[SoaringXCellence]

John,

With regard to the Lark: our club had one and I enjoyed flying it for local cross country. At the time there was a lot of reluctance to go fare due to the crew needed for retrieve, but with a little practice it's not too bad.. It is a bit heavier than a G103, but it does fly well, has retractable gear for practice, and flap that do help it slow for smaller thermals. Good for practice!

I'm in the Portland Oregon area and have specialized in XC training for 16 years. Look me up on the SSA member search. Contest number 4M, Mike Bamberg. I could take a road trip up to WA to fly if your club permits. (after the COVID-19 lockdowns are lifted).

[Daniel Sazhin[_2_]]

Hey John,

Regarding price, it all depends on what you are looking for.

A really nice 1-26E, full decked out with all the bells and whistles, parachute, and oxygen will run you upwards of $12,500, sure. Heck, you can get a zero-timed 1-26 from K&L Schweizer for 25k if you really want to splurge.

But you can get an airworthy beater for $4-5000 too. Projects for less.

I know of an airworthy Ka-6 that recently sold for $4000. A Ka-8 in a barn that could probably had for free to simply get it out of the guy's life.

If you want an airworthy single-seater on the cheap, they're out there.

All the best,
Daniel

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Many posts here for me to reply to....not picking on this poster...
I had roughly 200hrs in 2-33 and 1-26 before "better ships".....

In a weekend, I was flown in a Cessna 150 to use flaps, then signed off and flew.... SGS-1-34, SGS-1-35, PIK-20....the Cessna 150 gave me a means to understand flaps....as well as changes in pitch attitude....

While not huge, had contest pilots as well as CFIG-G's as mentors......

I spent a number of years pushing glider students to basics as well as XC...
I remember a "familersion" (sp) flight with a DPE in a ASK-21(he owned) before I flew rides, etc. We were a long way from home, decent NE day, I pressed outward.....
Owner/DPE was questioning my flight.....
We had a longish day, got home, never an issue (to me).
We had fun, got signed off in the Ask-21....

Yes, I did A, B, C, Bronze, Silver, Gold, 2 Diamonds, from 1 airport....need diamond altitude.....most were done in "low performance" ships....

Yes, I picked on some of our club peeps that wanted "fast glass and electronics", I would drive to the ridge in a 1-26 and "hope" things worked out.....
Usually it did.
Look out the canopy, maybe check a map, what looks decent....

Our club has a "go long, go far...we can fetch" mentality....not all do that.
I appreciate my "upbringing" early on, I try to foster that....

[son_of_flubber]

Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.

Even though I'm already an old guy, my endurance in the air has slowly increased over a decade of flying to about 3 hours. For a younger pilot, 5 hour duration flight might be more a matter of skillfully finding lift, and less a matter of raw endurance.

[Dan Marotta]

I'm over it now, John.Â* I was in a cranky mood this morning as I
prepared to go into town to get a cancerous piece of my ear removed (one
of the benefits of being old and spending a lot of time in the sun).Â*
Your apology is sheepishly accepted and please accept mine for unloading
on you like that.

Dan

On 3/24/2020 12:37 PM, John Foster wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Well, I was on your side until you said, "retired old men sitting on a
>> nest egg".Â* That's a perfect description of me.Â* I worked long and hard
>> for what I have and I deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of a lot of
>> today's younger folk.
>>
>> Having said that, I and a lot of my peers, learned cross country soaring
>> on our own, by trial and error, or with a mentor who would lead or
>> follow along on a flight and give advice.Â* Take a look at the cross
>> country soaring chapter of The American Soaring Handbook. There's all
>> the information you need to fly cross country.Â* And, no, it's not to my
>> knowledge available for display on your smart phone. Get off your ass,
>> quit complaining, and do something for yourself.
>>
>> I know it's hard to hear that, but you can't always be led by the nose.
>> Dan, 5J
> Thanks for your feedback, Dan. I apologize if I offended you (or anyone else that resembles that remark). That was not my intent. However, I am frustrated by the rising cost of so many things in soaring. I too, deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of so many younger folks today, and my comment about the nest egg was in no way intended to sound demanding of a hand-out, but rather that it is getting more difficult to start something or branch out from the normal operations unless you are sitting on a pile of money.
>
> The idea of practicing with Condor really appeals to me. So does the idea of using a 1-26. However, here again, the price seems to be slowly climbing for a decent one of these too. Tackling the problem of instructors who feel incapable of teaching XC--well that's another matter I guess. But I like the idea of partnering with another member who does do XC to sit in the back seat of the 2-33.

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

You could do like me and take off with a case of the flu (back in the
'80s), sit miserably in the cockpit for 5 1/2 hours, and land to find
that you'd not screwed the nut tightly enough on the barograph drum and
it did not rotate.

Or you could save that 5 hour duration flight for your first of many
Gold Distance/Diamond Goal attempts.Â* It'll likely take you 5 hours or
more in early attempts, anyway.Â* Good luck!

On 3/24/2020 3:29 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.
>
> Even though I'm already an old guy, my endurance in the air has slowly increased over a decade of flying to about 3 hours. For a younger pilot, 5 hour duration flight might be more a matter of skillfully finding lift, and less a matter of raw endurance.

--
Dan, 5J

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 14:29:35 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

> Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour
> duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and
> flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to
> a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.
>
Its a useful marker: in a lower moderate performance glider, say Libelle
to Pegase, under UK or New England conditions, its going to take you 4-5
hours to cover crack 300km (Gold distance or Diamond Goal flight).

It was also useful in convincing me that I *could* stay up that long.
That, by itself, makes it a good personal goal regardless of the Silver
qualification.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[[email protected]]

There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the problems soaring faced.. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, **** everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 16:32:43 -0700, dtarmichael wrote:

> There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The
> sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades
> of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs
> that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to
> offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share
> almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
> A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a
> P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn
> their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on
> their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in
> the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't
> work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The
> general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
> On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper
> aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the
> entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his
> own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the
> problems soaring faced. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, ****
> everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED
> sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

Well put, sir!

I'm well aware that I gave myself a good start by joining one of the
larger UK clubs, which had then, and still has, an all-glass fleet and a
large airfield. The two additional things that I didn't know enough to
even consider are that the club has always had a very strong XC culture
and that all our instructors were then, and are now, all XC pilots
themselves. So, its assumed that when you solo, you'll convert to a
single seater almost immediately, will join one of the duty rosters in
return for all the free instruction you've been given, and will have your
beady eyes fixed on getting Bronze and Silver badges as the rite of
passage into becoming a regular XC pilot.

I have some awareness of the differences between clubs on the two sides
of the pond: I've flown at Front Royal, Avenal, Williams, Minden and
Boulder. Of these, Avenal felt most familiar.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

Thank you, Daniel! Good to know I am not the only one who keeps tabs on these old birds!

Steve Leonard

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 7:32:45 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
> A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
> On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the problems soaring faced. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, **** everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

Fortunately, my experience in US clubs has been rather different than what you describe.

My current club's growing, and we're all about XC, we give back. There's no real magic here (that is to say: you could do it too).

Our secret weapon, if we have one, is our HpH 304c. It's a big draw to guys looking for a way to get into a high performance XC machine without breaking the bank. That machine is a motivator. Student pilots will work their tails off to get rated and get qualified to fly this delightful bird... then once they do, the motivation goes up still another notch and the hook is often well and truly set. The vast majority of our "304 graduates" buy their own gliders, often within a year or two of taking their first flight in the 304. Joining our club costs $400 initiation and $400 annual dues and another 70-something for the SSA. Last year, tows were $38 to 2K and instruction is free.

None of this looks like failure to us.

Evan Ludeman
Post Mills Soaring Club
Post Mills, VT

[Stephen Szikora]

Someone mentioned the 5 hour requirement (the “big sit�) for Silver. I agree it’s silly because it is the same 5 hour requirement for Gold! It should have been maybe 3 hours for Silver.

[Daniel Sazhin[_2_]]

The Five Hour in many ways is actually the biggest accomplishment of the Silver Badge. That's the tough nut to crack and it takes a lot of effort and perseverance to get it.

To do it on thermals is tough. My club requires it to be done on thermals as flying the ridge back and forth for five hours is simply an endurance contest.

But on thermals it requires a wide range of skills. For one, you need to pick your day. After you do your 5-hour, you'll find it isn't so hard to fly many hour flights. Most XC flights are 3-5 hours in length. But many flights just happen to end up around 4.3 to 4.8 hours. It just seems at least in the east coast that 5 hours is a special threshold on pure thermal days.

So you learn to pay attention to the weather forecasts and distinguish what days are good.

And when you get out to the airport, you have to time your launch just right. Too early and you fall out and miss your window. Too late and you fall out on the back end of the day. Many pilots have gotten 4.9 hours while trying their 5 hour duration.

During the day, conditions will usually cycle in and out over certain areas.. You can't just stay in one place. You will probably need to fly 5 miles away for a while and then go 10 miles from that spot, to the other limit of gliding distance of your airport. You may have one or two critical points that will decide whether you stay up or fall out. Maybe you even have a 1500ft save or two in that process.

There's a lot of decision-making that goes into it.

After you do it, you KNOW you have the skill and confidence to go cross country. You know that getting out of gliding distance on a two hour flight in the "meat" of the day is totally manageable. You know that when you get stuck in a thermal at 1500ft, working hard and climbing at .2 knots, that you have a lot of mental energy left in the tank. The Silver Distance feels "easy"!

Uniformly, the 5-hour is one of those things that people who don't have it, complain about its logic and usefulness. And then the people who do it and then progress to their Silver Distance, appreciate it for the wonderful accomplishment that it is.

My club requires a 5 hour endurance before taking our club ships cross country and it works very well as a training milestone. I think it's a great experience and a great goal for advancing gliderpilots to aim at.

All the best,
Daniel

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

On 3/25/2020 8:22 AM, Daniel Sazhin wrote:
> The Five Hour in many ways is actually the biggest accomplishment of the
> Silver Badge. That's the tough nut to crack and it takes a lot of effort
> and perseverance to get it.

<Bulk of good post snipped to save electrons in this time of global crisis...)

> My club requires a 5 hour endurance before
> taking our club ships cross country and it works very well as a training
> milestone. I think it's a great experience and a great goal for advancing
> gliderpilots to aim at.
>
> All the best, Daniel

Consulting the Way Back When Machine, my first - and only - intentional,
semi-planned, Big Sit died with the day at around 4 hrs 45 minutes in my
club's 1-26. The good news was it was about 4 hours longer than I'd guessed
was likely before I took the tow, the bad news...well, use your imaginations!

So not long thereafter, licensed, proud 1/3 owner of my instructor's kit-built
1-26 with another of his recently-former students, there we wuz in eastern
Ohio flying in a Labor Day fun contest. 1st Day - my straw won, I finished an
~30-mile task (ridiculously high) after only ~3 hours (12mph IIRC!), whupping
the reigning World Champeen 1-26 pilot (Ted Teach - he landed out, along with
about 1/3 of the field), and I had an in-flight brainstorm. I radioed my
instructor (surely an instructor would have chops with the contest big wigs,
no?) to see if it would be OK for me, instead of landing immediately, to
remain aloft to bag my 5 hours (that's how high I finished!). It was. I did.

Point being, circumstances depending, it doesn't HAVE to be 'a Big Sit.'

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 07:22:06 -0700, Daniel Sazhin wrote:

> The Five Hour in many ways is actually the biggest accomplishment of the
> Silver Badge. That's the tough nut to crack and it takes a lot of effort
> and perseverance to get it.
>
Agreed.

> To do it on thermals is tough. My club requires it to be done on
> thermals as flying the ridge back and forth for five hours is simply an
> endurance contest.
>
But when flying over flat land, thats all you've got.

> Uniformly, the 5-hour is one of those things that people who don't have
> it, complain about its logic and usefulness. And then the people who do
> it and then progress to their Silver Distance, appreciate it for the
> wonderful accomplishment that it is.
>
In the UK you need to get Bronze before tackling Silver, Bronze being 50
solo flights with two exceeding 30 minutes (winch) or 60mins (aerotow)
followed by flying and written tests.You also need the Bronze XC
endorsement (selection, field landing and navigation exercises, all done
in an Scheibe SF-25 at my club).

Our instructors will insist on you having Bronze with XC endorsement
before tackling Silver Distance, but won't stop you doing longer flights
while getting Bronze, so a lot of us got our Silver Height and Silver
duration while working on Bronze.

So, for most of us, Silver Distance becomes our first solo XC flight.
Mini-triangles count as local soaring since they stay within 5 miles of
home and a lot of our new pilots will have gone XC in two-seaters, often
during competitions, before soloing.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I believe when I did my 5 hours, was before the bronze badge existed, and I did it in an ASW-20 while doing gold distance/diamond goal.
Eastern US.
Thermals.
Film (no logger/GPS).
One film was cut mid flight, one was processed in a mall type color machine.... the Replogle barograph got me the 5 hours, but not distance.

A year or so later, I did the same flight during a drought in the northeast....took about 3 hours on thermals, but I got them.

Yes, since early '70's, our field has had CFI-G's that do XC as well as contests. We tend to shove peeps out and/or lead them out.
We always have people going somewhere, from kids to a "ripe old age".

XC/badge flying is not for everyone, but usually good to keep people in the sport for more than a year or so.

[[email protected]]

‘XC/badge flying is not for everyone, but usually good to keep people in the sport for more than a year or so. “

I second that. It has always been pretty clear that the folks who set personal goals in soaring like the badge program, continue in the sport, where the guys who get their ticket but never venture out in xc or contest flying don’t stick with the spirt for long.
Dan

[[email protected]]

Doing five hours while hovering around the airport is like flagpole sitting (at least at Moriarty!) It just shows you have a large bladder and a small imagination :-) Don't mean to be snarky, but western US soaring conditions are exceptional.

I've done lots of 5+ hour flights in hang gliders and sailplanes, with flight distances of 150+ km in hang gliders and a personal best of 745 km in my sailplane. I don't have ANY badges.

Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!" (From the film, "Treasure of the Sierra Madre," Alfonso Bedoya as "Gold Hat," 1948)

[[email protected]]

“Badges? we don’t need no stinkin badges!�..Blazing Saddles.

[son_of_flubber]

On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 at 2:40:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:

> I second that. It has always been pretty clear that the folks who set personal goals in soaring like the badge program, continue in the sport, where the guys who get their ticket but never venture out in xc or contest flying don’t stick with the sport for long.

Some people may need to fly XC to stay interested in the sport. This seems to be more true for some personality types, and maybe it is true for people who fly in places with less interesting terrain, or who fly very high above interesting terrain, or maybe for people who fly in places with generally strong soaring conditions. And it is certainly true for people who lose interest and stop flying soon after they pass their checkride, or the many who're frustrated by slow progress in weekend only training and dropout before they even take the checkride.

For 10 years, people have told me that I will surely quit soon if I do not take XC seriously.

I've 400 hours in my logbook and I own a medium performance glider and a hangar. I fly 30-40 days a year in a beautiful and challenging location. I'm active in gliding clubs in two hemispheres (I just returned from NZ).

The XC pilots at my home airport, pilots who own beautiful high performance gliders, gliders that sit assembled in the hangar and unused for most of the season (and several more parked in trailers), tell me that I'm going to quit soon if I don't fly XC. I'm also told that 'Good XC days' at our location are few and far between (most years).

Owning a high performance glider at a place with routinely weak conditions and low cloud base relative to ridge lines, seems like a trap. If I bought a high performance glider at my current location, I would probably need to take up XC and competition, or move to NM, CO and like places. ... or quit..

On the other hand I've found that there are many days when it is a satisfying struggle to stay up for an hour, and that there are lots of days when I can figure out where to go (and where to avoid) to stay up for 2-3 hours. Its satisfying to 'figure out' the day especially when other pilots (including XC pilots who try for a 'local flight') are dropping out of the sky. Its even more satisfying to climb out of a low tow on a day like that.

Flying often, I remain current and proficient, and I get measurably more proficient every year. I've been told that weak days are just 'too easy' and boring in a high performance glider, and that when you can't reasonably expect to get back over the ridge lines (once you've crossed over), you can only go up and down the valley, but not too far. Yeah. Boring. Plus you're missing the thrill of XC (I have enough experience to know that XC can be thrilling).

Having my glider assembled in the hangar and living close to the airport means its easy to try to fly on a lot of weak days. Figuring out when to launch to get that 1-2 hour flight is part of the fun. I have time and energy to do something else before or after my flight. I enjoy ground operations and the people. I enjoy working on projects in my hangar before or after a flight. I'm fortunate to be in this unique situation.

I'm not saying anything against flying XC and competitions. I'm just saying that there is more than one way to enjoy and stay enthusiastic about soaring. When people discount my way of enjoying the sport, when they tell me that I'm still a beginner, and occasionally say 'so you're not a real glider pilot', I just nod and move on. Okay. Maybe I am a beginner. I still have a beginner's enthusiasm about soaring.

[[email protected]]

No Dis intended Flubber. You have found your own nitch within the sport and are having lots of fun. I have just been looking at the trends over the last 40 or so years and see that it usually takes some goal or subset of soaring pursuit to keep folks involved in the hobby.

You found your points of motivation. For others its the instruction side where they just love to introduce people to the sport. For others its the social aspect of their club. These guys may have never had any interest in xc, and are content just to fly local, it works for them. But the drop out rate is still pretty substantial. I grew up at a time when soaring was an actual lifestyle. That really does’nt exist anymore in large part.
Dan

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 16:02:19 -0700, markmocho53 wrote:

> Don't mean to be snarky, but western US
> soaring conditions are exceptional.
>
Of course. However, as I said in a different post, the conditions where I
usually fly in Eastern UK or across into the Midlands are far more like
New England than western US conditions. Where I fly, 4-5 kts is good and
anything over 6 is exceptional.

In addition, almost everybody in my club will be flying a club glider for
Silver, so club rules apply, and I don't think our instructors would be
at all happy if a pre-Bronze pilot flew Silver duration outside local
soaring range of home, particularly given that said pre-Bronze pilot will
most unlikely to have done any field landing or navigation training yet.

> Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I
> don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!" (From the film, "Treasure
> of the Sierra Madre," Alfonso Bedoya as "Gold Hat," 1948)
>
In the UK and Europe badges are useful. If you're visiting a new club and
want to fly, they'll want to know what badges and hours you have before
you take a check-ride/site familiarisationflight or there's any
discussion of what single seaters they'll let you fly.

There are fields here where I wouldn't WANT to fly without a check-ride
with winch cable breaks. Eden Soaring for instance:

54°41'55.61"N 2°34'59.36"W

This is a winch-only site. That co-ordinate is at the NE end of a stone
wall across the middle of the runway with a 50m gap in its centre. The
nearest working point of the ridge is 3km NE of the airfield. The picture
looks to have been made before flying started on a day when the wind is
at nearly 90 degrees to the run.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[[email protected]]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting out and doing some soaring. Anytime, anywhere. If you don't go XC on every flight, or don't set some record (even if it is in your own logbook), who cares? If you are the last to launch, after the "prime time," who cares? Getting a few hours in the air after work in mellow conditions that don't tempt you to venture far from the field is still fun. Plus, you get some safe practice in softening, end-of day lift. It's a good thing to become comfortable in conditions that might happen on your next final glide. Fly around locally, enjoy yourself. Land late and watch the Sunset. Have a beer with friends. Laugh with them about the day. (And now for a Public Service Announcement: Wash your hands before offering your buddies a beer.)

I used to love getting a late launch after work in my hang glider (6:00 pm or so, flying till the 8:30 sunset) and hanging around the LZ with some of the most fun people I ever had as friends. I wish Soaring had that same social late-in-the-evening experience to offer. It does occasionally occur, but most folks have to drive some distance home, and DWI is serious business. (It used to be a sport!) I'm lucky. I live 2 miles from the airport, and there is a great brewery on the way home. Just in case.

Just think about all the yardwork you can avoid by following some simple guidelines.

[John Foster]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 9:57:12 PM UTC-6, John Foster wrote:
> I read the recent article in Soaring and it has got me fired up. I have been a member of a small club in Washington State for the last 2 years, learning to fly. The club has a 2-33 and a Lark and a Pawnee. That's it. Badge flying has not been an emphasis, even though one qualifies for at least the A badge once you solo. Part of the reason is that there is very little emphasis on cross-country flying, mostly because most of the club pilots don't like flying the Lark, and it is too big of an ordeal to disassemble the 2-33 and transport back to the airport should an off-field landing occur. As a result, most people just fly the 2-33 in circles around the airport, never venturing outside gliding distance. The club has been in the market for a decent glass two-seater to do cross-country flying with, but there is no budget for this. And the one CFIG is getting about ready to hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.
>
> At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.
>
> Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.
>
> So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

The other concern regarding the expense of new gliders, is that current fleet of used training gliders continues to slowly shrink. More and more training gliders are either being damaged by training accidents or by weather, and those that come up for sale often have damage history, and as a result, are heavier and have a reduced useful load. This, coupled with the obesity epidemic, is putting a premium on those training gliders capable of carrying two 200lbs + pilots. Eventually, we are going to run out of training gliders if this trend continues. We need to be thinking ahead about how we are going to replace this aging fleet, or we will be left high and dry.

[Wyll Surf Air]

John from my experience it has to do with the club atmosphere much more then the the fleet. I'm part of a small club out on the west coast. We have 2 2-33's, 1-26, and a DG-100. None of these are great cross country trainers, but the club is Very cross country oriented. In the spring when the weather is good there will b at least 5 or 6 people going xc in private ships and the students pick up on this.

Another thing to note is that you don't need to be a CFIG to teach cross country. One of the members of our club owns a Duo and he will often bring fleshly minted pilots on flights with him to see what you can really do with cross country and for mentoring. For me personally he has been the best resource for learning to fly cross country both on the ground and in the air..

Last note, and this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think that badges, at least after the bronze badge, are a silly and outdated way to encourage cross country flying. For a badge one must declare a task, fill out a lengthy task decoration, find an official observer, find a certified tracker, if not in calibration get that tracker calibrated, and so on before making the flight. These steps are for the most part pointless, annoying, and discouraging people from flying. Thus I think OLC is a much better motivator for cross country soaring if you need one.

[[email protected]]

Hello Wyll, as for some of the badges you don’t really have to do a thing. For gold and diamond distance all a guy has to do is have a logger, call an observer or the airport manager, tell them your going on a long flight and fly it. If you make the distance, then you fill out the forms and have the OO or manager check over things. Actually easy peasy.
The same goes for altitude legs. For declared distance legs not really that much harder, you just have to preload your intended task into your logger and same thing, go fly. Actually it is way easier than back in the “paper� days with written declarations, cameras, turn point photos and barographs.

Dan

[John Foster]

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 2:31:18 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Hello Wyll, as for some of the badges you don’t really have to do a thing. For gold and diamond distance all a guy has to do is have a logger, call an observer or the airport manager, tell them your going on a long flight and fly it. If you make the distance, then you fill out the forms and have the OO or manager check over things. Actually easy peasy.
> The same goes for altitude legs. For declared distance legs not really that much harder, you just have to preload your intended task into your logger and same thing, go fly. Actually it is way easier than back in the “paper� days with written declarations, cameras, turn point photos and barographs.
>
> Dan

Any special equipment needed for the altitude component for badges today? Like an altitude encoding transponder? Or does a simple GPS data logger suffice?

[MNLou]

A clarification on badge distance rules. All flights for Gold Distance, Diamond Distance, and Diamond Goal must be pre-declared - unless they are a point to point "downwind dash".

I learned this the hard way by being an OO for a Diamond Distance flight where we screwed up the post flight waypoint GPS identification and tried to change it.

Only an IGC approved logger is needed for altitude claims.

Lou

[[email protected]]

Yes MNLou, sorry for not clarifying that about distance, guys can just plan/make a straight line flight and qualify for gold or diamond distance without declaring where there going. Those have been the most fun flights for me.. I like just heading out on a good day and seeing how far I can get in a direction that looks good.
Dan

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 2:52:53 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> A couple of comments:
>
> If your tracker is not in calibration, you can have that done within 30
> days after the flight (unless rules have changed).
>
> For me, (steenkin') badges were a way of showing the community that I
> had (30 years ago) what it took to fly unsupervised for long distances.Â*
> OLC does not prove anything other than you can follow a decent path
> through the sky.Â* A badge means that you can plan in advance and execute
> a flight.Â* It's not as easy as you might think. And, yeah, the rules are
> a pain, but nothing compared to film cameras, paper maps, and a
> barograph.Â* So, plan a badge flight and fly it as planned.Â* You might
> see the difference.
>
> And as to mentoring newbies, though I can hardly be called a newbie,
> there was a man, since retired from soaring, who owned a DG-500m-22 at
> Moriarty.Â* He didn't much care to fly alone and anyone who wanted could
> have the front seat and learn.Â* He happened to be a CFI, but I don't
> recalling him doing any formal training.Â* He just helped people fly in a
> nice ship and enjoyed their company.Â* Your Duo Discus guy seems to be
> the same way.
>
> On 3/26/2020 11:26 AM, Wyll Surf Air wrote:
> > John from my experience it has to do with the club atmosphere much more then the the fleet. I'm part of a small club out on the west coast. We have 2 2-33's, 1-26, and a DG-100. None of these are great cross country trainers, but the club is Very cross country oriented. In the spring when the weather is good there will b at least 5 or 6 people going xc in private ships and the students pick up on this.
> >
> > Another thing to note is that you don't need to be a CFIG to teach cross country. One of the members of our club owns a Duo and he will often bring fleshly minted pilots on flights with him to see what you can really do with cross country and for mentoring. For me personally he has been the best resource for learning to fly cross country both on the ground and in the air.
> >
> > Last note, and this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think that badges, at least after the bronze badge, are a silly and outdated way to encourage cross country flying. For a badge one must declare a task, fill out a lengthy task decoration, find an official observer, find a certified tracker, if not in calibration get that tracker calibrated, and so on before making the flight. These steps are for the most part pointless, annoying, and discouraging people from flying. Thus I think OLC is a much better motivator for cross country soaring if you need one.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

From current Sporting Code 3: "...shall be calibrated within 5 years prior to the flight or within 2 months after the flight."

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:58:07 -0700, MNLou wrote:

> A clarification on badge distance rules. All flights for Gold Distance,
> Diamond Distance, and Diamond Goal must be pre-declared - unless they
> are a point to point "downwind dash".
>
Gold distance doesn't need to be predeclared, but the Diamond Goal flight
does. Since both are 300 km, declare it anyway and, on completion you can
claim it as Gold Distance and Diamond Goal. At least, that was the case
when I did the flight and claimed both badge legs.

Height claims require an IGC approved logger with a calibrated pressure
sensor installed. If its calibration certificate is out of date it can be
recalibrated after the flight: there is a short window allowed for doing
that. However, if you're relying on post calibration, if conditions
permit, do make sure you've given yourself a decent height margin rather
than just scrambling over the target height in case the sensor has
drifted.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

> Any special equipment needed for the altitude component for badges today? Like an altitude encoding transponder? Or does a simple GPS data logger suffice?

From the current Sporting Code https://www.fai.org/igc-documents :
"FLIGHT RECORDER 1.1.5 An IGC-approved device to record pressure altitude and GPS position and altitude. A given FLIGHT RECORDER may be approved for all flights, all badges, or Silver through Diamond badge claims only.
POSITION RECORDER 1.1.6 A NAC-approved device to record GPS data for Silver or Gold badge claims only."

FR's have special barometric sensors. PR's can too, but most use GPS altitude, which has a error band of 100m applied.

A list of PR's approved by NACs is at http://www.ukiws.demon.co.uk/GFAC/position_recorders.htm .

[MNLou]

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 5:00:30 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:58:07 -0700, MNLou wrote:
>
> > A clarification on badge distance rules. All flights for Gold Distance,
> > Diamond Distance, and Diamond Goal must be pre-declared - unless they
> > are a point to point "downwind dash".
> >
> Gold distance doesn't need to be predeclared,

Per the Sporting Code and the SSA Badge Dude, indeed, Gold Distance - unless a downwind dash - needs to be predeclared.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!

Lou

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 19:59:20 -0700, MNLou wrote:

>> > A clarification on badge distance rules. All flights for Gold
>> > Distance,
>> > Diamond Distance, and Diamond Goal must be pre-declared - unless they
>> > are a point to point "downwind dash".
>> >
>> Gold distance doesn't need to be predeclared,
>
> Per the Sporting Code and the SSA Badge Dude, indeed, Gold Distance -
> unless a downwind dash - needs to be predeclared.
>
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
No, that's correct - the undeclared flight may be a straight line in any
direction, otherwise it must be declared and must not have more than
three declared turnpoints.

====

Do you guys have a 100 km diploma, or is that UK only? It has two parts:

a) Completion of a 100 km declared closed circuit flight, set either as a
triangle or as an out - and - return, starting and finishing with the
crossing of a 1km start/finish line.

b) Completion of a similar flight to that above, but at a minimum
handicapped speed of 65 km per hour. The handicap list from the current
Competition Handbook is to be used.

I think flying something like that is quite a good introduction to XC
soaring given UK airspace restrictions.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Bret Hess]

I agree with Wyll. Badges only matter to the people they matter to.

[Bret Hess]

On Friday, March 27, 2020 at 9:19:59 AM UTC-6, Bret Hess wrote:
> I agree with Wyll. Badges only matter to the people they matter to.

Perhaps there's a east-west cultural divide here.

[Patrick (LS6-b EH)]

Hi John, I really empathize with your situation!

From my experience, even the right equipment is not enough for XC success. What's required is a culture, with leadership and mentors, and you might not look to your CFIG for that leadership - I've not found XC leaders in the CFI's of the clubs I've flown at, and that's fine. Friends Stan (Z1), Randy (EH), Charles (CP), Tony (1F), Wilf (K2), Adam (28) and others pulled me along and contextualized things - they taught me the card trick!

I'm convinced that we (collectively) have the opportunity to usher in a new golden age of soaring - in fact, I get angry when people discuss the demise of soaring as a known outcome!
1) Lots of great gliders around, which may or may not be "expensive", they tend not to depreciate faster than inflation - I'm happy to have diversified into a share of a glider in November 2019 vs having held that capital in the market today (even if the glider market has soured, I can't fly an ETF)
2) Tools and forecasting - with a used Android phone ($90USD), XCSoar (free) and DrJack or Skysight.io you can have incredible confidence or foresight which previously required an MSc in meteorology and an $6000 moving map flight computer
3) Tell our story - between Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok and other free content platforms we have an incredible opportunity to share the majesty of soaring like never before

Your dilemma is one that I don't think tenured members care to empathize with, but is the core reason why the average age of a club tends to increase by 1 every year. When efforts are made to drive development programs, they require significant volumes of time of established members and tend to expire quickly or are only available on weekends when the weather is poor.

Fear not - I bring you the/a solution! Over the past few years, some of my gliding buddies and I have created a platform to seed and solve any club's XC development culture (and member retention goals), and we're ready to bring it to the US in 2020!

The 'Proving Grounds' is a club-specific platform with defined tasks, beautiful trophies to mount in your clubhouse or hangar and an automated email bot for pilots to email an .igc trace to. Our bot scores the trace against the tasks within a minute, returning your time, average speed and other details to the requesting email address. Record your name, glider, date and ranking metric on magnetic slips and rank it by time or average speed on the aforementioned trophies (stainless steel task boards).

We encourage clubs to start with a diamond-shaped task around their airfield which is safe as long as the pilot maintains 2500' above field elevation (1000' circuit altitude + 20:1 glide ratio).

The next two tasks we suggest clubs plan over safe terrain with good landout options and that build on each other. This way a pilot attempting the largest task can bail on that task, but still have success on the middle task.

Once the tasks are defined, there is next to no maintenance by any club member. The fixed tasks inform discussions supporting the novice XC pilot set to become the club's next XC mentor - that's you John!

In 2019 the Soaring Association of Canada provided setup and subscription costs for 3 years for any interested club. So far, 14 of Canada's 21 gliding clubs have configured a Proving Grounds for their clubs (2 more pending) with effusively positive feedback - from a group not known for effusively positive feedback.

In the middle of this crazy time, we are trying to start some conversations with SSA to see if they would do for US clubs as SAC has done in Canada to support the member clubs, and the sport of soaring with a scalable, no maintenance, high-value but low-cost program. This will ultimately make it less expensive overall and, I think, would be a great way for SSA to provide turn-key support for clubs without ongoing burden associated with other types of programs/initiatives.

If anyone has names of folks who could be influential in helping motivate the SSA to support this kind of initiative, please follow up directly - or if you'd like more information specifically, do the same.

I'm a "tenured" XC pilot and love racing the Proving Grounds for recognition I don't get on Skylines or OLC (among peers, not strangers) and to motivate others to try task flying and XC. But my greatest satisfaction from participating in the program at my club is when I saw a novice pilot nearly in tears with a sense of pride affixing their slip to the task board - gaining some recognition and accomplishing their first soaring milestone! I know this works in year 1, and I can't wait to see how it will evolve in my club by year 10+.

Start now!

If anyone can help us bring this to the US, I'd really appreciate any direction or conversation to that end. The feedback across Canada is that pilots really appreciate the platform which is creating excitement and engagement immediately upon delivery.

For more info:
soaringtasks.com
"Proving Grounds" on Facebook or LinkedIn
Article in SAC's 'Free Flight' magazine - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/free-flight-magazine-2/latest-issue
Note the feedback in SAC's 2019 Annual Reports (find "Proving Grounds") - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/documents-en/meeting-minutes-annual-reports/2015-2019/671-sac-2019-annual-reports/file
I'm @paddy_mack on Instagram and Tik Tok

Fly Deliberately. Fly Tasks.

[Bret Hess]

> If anyone can help us bring this to the US, I'd really appreciate any direction or conversation to that end. The feedback across Canada is that pilots really appreciate the platform which is creating excitement and engagement immediately upon delivery.
>
> For more info:
> soaringtasks.com
> "Proving Grounds" on Facebook or LinkedIn
> Article in SAC's 'Free Flight' magazine - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/free-flight-magazine-2/latest-issue
> Note the feedback in SAC's 2019 Annual Reports (find "Proving Grounds") - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/documents-en/meeting-minutes-annual-reports/2015-2019/671-sac-2019-annual-reports/file
> I'm @paddy_mack on Instagram and Tik Tok
>
> Fly Deliberately. Fly Tasks.

Patrick, this is a big enough initiative you should post again under its own subject line so it will get more exposure.

[[email protected]]

Le mardi 24 mars 2020 22:29:38 UTC+1, son_of_flubber a écritÂ*:
> Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.
>
> Even though I'm already an old guy, my endurance in the air has slowly increased over a decade of flying to about 3 hours. For a younger pilot, 5 hour duration flight might be more a matter of skillfully finding lift, and less a matter of raw endurance.

It is a sad fact that some clubs ask that their members get the duration leg of the silver badge before allowing them to do the distance leg. Even in a low performance ship (I did it in a Ka8), the 50 km take 1 to 2 hours, so why would you have to do the 5 hours first? You'll do them without even noticing it if you try the 300 km distance leg for gold in a low performance ship (I did my first 300 km triangle in a Ka6E in 6 and 1/2 hours, still one of my favourite memories even if it was disallowed as a badge flight due to a faulty turn point picture).

I'd say one of the key points if you're going to try and go XC without formal two-place training, is to learn to know the region you're going to fly over. In the 80's, I did it by studying ordnance maps (no Google maps in these days) during the winter months. It helped me find my goal aerodrome. If you're using a gps for the 50 km, you'll lose half the fun...

By the way: you CAN put this in your smartphone: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-13a.pdf

[Dan Marotta]

That is simply terrific!

I suggest you repost under your own subject line, just as Bret suggested.

On 3/28/2020 9:13 AM, Bret Hess wrote:
>
>> If anyone can help us bring this to the US, I'd really appreciate any direction or conversation to that end. The feedback across Canada is that pilots really appreciate the platform which is creating excitement and engagement immediately upon delivery.
>>
>> For more info:
>> soaringtasks.com
>> "Proving Grounds" on Facebook or LinkedIn
>> Article in SAC's 'Free Flight' magazine - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/free-flight-magazine-2/latest-issue
>> Note the feedback in SAC's 2019 Annual Reports (find "Proving Grounds") - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/documents-en/meeting-minutes-annual-reports/2015-2019/671-sac-2019-annual-reports/file
>> I'm @paddy_mack on Instagram and Tik Tok
>>
>> Fly Deliberately. Fly Tasks.
> Patrick, this is a big enough initiative you should post again under its own subject line so it will get more exposure.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Patrick (LS6-b EH)]

Hi Bret (and Dan), it's our interest to see if we can get buy in support from the top and introduce the platform as "available to clubs with support from SSA".

COVID19 has disrupted some early conversations, but if you have leads let me know.

More to come!

Thanks for the feedback! �

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 10:59:23 PM UTC-4, MNLou wrote:
> On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 5:00:30 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:58:07 -0700, MNLou wrote:
> >
> > > A clarification on badge distance rules. All flights for Gold Distance,
> > > Diamond Distance, and Diamond Goal must be pre-declared - unless they
> > > are a point to point "downwind dash".
> > >
> > Gold distance doesn't need to be predeclared,
>
> Per the Sporting Code and the SSA Badge Dude, indeed, Gold Distance - unless a downwind dash - needs to be predeclared.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lou

The only one that requires declaration of turn points is diamond goal.
Gold distance and diamond distance can be straight out without declared points.
UH

[[email protected]]

On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 11:57:12 PM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
>
> So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

Buy a 1-26.

Jim Beckman

[John Foster]

On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 1:46:32 AM UTC-6, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
> Hi John, I really empathize with your situation!
>
> From my experience, even the right equipment is not enough for XC success.. What's required is a culture, with leadership and mentors, and you might not look to your CFIG for that leadership - I've not found XC leaders in the CFI's of the clubs I've flown at, and that's fine. Friends Stan (Z1), Randy (EH), Charles (CP), Tony (1F), Wilf (K2), Adam (28) and others pulled me along and contextualized things - they taught me the card trick!
>
> I'm convinced that we (collectively) have the opportunity to usher in a new golden age of soaring - in fact, I get angry when people discuss the demise of soaring as a known outcome!
> 1) Lots of great gliders around, which may or may not be "expensive", they tend not to depreciate faster than inflation - I'm happy to have diversified into a share of a glider in November 2019 vs having held that capital in the market today (even if the glider market has soured, I can't fly an ETF)
> 2) Tools and forecasting - with a used Android phone ($90USD), XCSoar (free) and DrJack or Skysight.io you can have incredible confidence or foresight which previously required an MSc in meteorology and an $6000 moving map flight computer
> 3) Tell our story - between Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok and other free content platforms we have an incredible opportunity to share the majesty of soaring like never before
>
> Your dilemma is one that I don't think tenured members care to empathize with, but is the core reason why the average age of a club tends to increase by 1 every year. When efforts are made to drive development programs, they require significant volumes of time of established members and tend to expire quickly or are only available on weekends when the weather is poor.
>
> Fear not - I bring you the/a solution! Over the past few years, some of my gliding buddies and I have created a platform to seed and solve any club's XC development culture (and member retention goals), and we're ready to bring it to the US in 2020!
>
> The 'Proving Grounds' is a club-specific platform with defined tasks, beautiful trophies to mount in your clubhouse or hangar and an automated email bot for pilots to email an .igc trace to. Our bot scores the trace against the tasks within a minute, returning your time, average speed and other details to the requesting email address. Record your name, glider, date and ranking metric on magnetic slips and rank it by time or average speed on the aforementioned trophies (stainless steel task boards).
>
> We encourage clubs to start with a diamond-shaped task around their airfield which is safe as long as the pilot maintains 2500' above field elevation (1000' circuit altitude + 20:1 glide ratio).
>
> The next two tasks we suggest clubs plan over safe terrain with good landout options and that build on each other. This way a pilot attempting the largest task can bail on that task, but still have success on the middle task.
>
> Once the tasks are defined, there is next to no maintenance by any club member. The fixed tasks inform discussions supporting the novice XC pilot set to become the club's next XC mentor - that's you John!
>
> In 2019 the Soaring Association of Canada provided setup and subscription costs for 3 years for any interested club. So far, 14 of Canada's 21 gliding clubs have configured a Proving Grounds for their clubs (2 more pending) with effusively positive feedback - from a group not known for effusively positive feedback.
>
> In the middle of this crazy time, we are trying to start some conversations with SSA to see if they would do for US clubs as SAC has done in Canada to support the member clubs, and the sport of soaring with a scalable, no maintenance, high-value but low-cost program. This will ultimately make it less expensive overall and, I think, would be a great way for SSA to provide turn-key support for clubs without ongoing burden associated with other types of programs/initiatives.
>
> If anyone has names of folks who could be influential in helping motivate the SSA to support this kind of initiative, please follow up directly - or if you'd like more information specifically, do the same.
>
> I'm a "tenured" XC pilot and love racing the Proving Grounds for recognition I don't get on Skylines or OLC (among peers, not strangers) and to motivate others to try task flying and XC. But my greatest satisfaction from participating in the program at my club is when I saw a novice pilot nearly in tears with a sense of pride affixing their slip to the task board - gaining some recognition and accomplishing their first soaring milestone! I know this works in year 1, and I can't wait to see how it will evolve in my club by year 10+.
>
> Start now!
>
> If anyone can help us bring this to the US, I'd really appreciate any direction or conversation to that end. The feedback across Canada is that pilots really appreciate the platform which is creating excitement and engagement immediately upon delivery.
>
> For more info:
> soaringtasks.com
> "Proving Grounds" on Facebook or LinkedIn
> Article in SAC's 'Free Flight' magazine - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/free-flight-magazine-2/latest-issue
> Note the feedback in SAC's 2019 Annual Reports (find "Proving Grounds") - http://sac.ca/index.php/en/documents-en/meeting-minutes-annual-reports/2015-2019/671-sac-2019-annual-reports/file
> I'm @paddy_mack on Instagram and Tik Tok
>
> Fly Deliberately. Fly Tasks.

This sounds very promising, Patrick. However, if you're going to fly outside of gliding range of the airport, it is best done with a glider that can be easily disassembled and trailered back to the airport in the event of a land-out. The 2-33 is not such a glider, and would limit such tasks to the first one you described, unless you were able to get high enough to do the longer tasks still within gliding range. However, a 1-26 would work for this, but would not work for dual instruction, obviously.

For my own development, I think I'm going to try to pursue the Condor avenue, once the funds allow.

[[email protected]]

> However, if you're going to fly outside of gliding range of the airport..

Do you mean the airport or an airport?

Around here, cross country works pretty well with one or two airports under you for safety and a cell phone in your pocket for calling the tow plane.

[John Foster]

On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 7:39:22 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > However, if you're going to fly outside of gliding range of the airport..
>
> Do you mean the airport or an airport?
>
> Around here, cross country works pretty well with one or two airports under you for safety and a cell phone in your pocket for calling the tow plane.

At the club I fly at, once all the launching is done, the tow-pilot goes home, unfortunately.

[[email protected]]

> At the club I fly at, once all the launching is done, the tow-pilot goes home, unfortunately.

That is unfortunate. I'm not sure how to teach cross country without first making retrieves no big deal.

Having money to buy a nicer 2-seater, you would still have to stay local to the airport.

Having no money, but an on-call list of willing tow pilots, you could fly with what you have.

Maybe getting young involved as tow pilots?

[Dan Marotta]

Yes!Â* What young pilot would not jump at the chance to fly for free with
lots of takeoffs and landings?

On 3/29/2020 6:33 AM, wrote:
> Maybe getting young involved as tow pilots?

--
Dan, 5J