Soaring Not Dead Everywhere

[[email protected]]

Well soaring isn’t dead everywhere. Today we got 14 flights in, private ships, and all three of the 1-26’s and solo flights in the club blanik. Social distancing in order, wipe downs of the club birds and all had fun. We didn’t need any ventilators but we did get up close to 7,000ft, thats thin air for us east coasters.
Dan

[Mike N.]

���

[Dan Marotta]

I got up to 15,000' today on a 3.5 hour flight.Â* There were four private
owners flying and several flights in a Grob.Â* I don't know who was in
that ship.

And, Dan, 15K is like 9K in Florida!

On 4/4/2020 4:12 PM, wrote:
> Well soaring isn’t dead everywhere. Today we got 14 flights in, private ships, and all three of the 1-26’s and solo flights in the club blanik. Social distancing in order, wipe downs of the club birds and all had fun. We didn’t need any ventilators but we did get up close to 7,000ft, thats thin air for us east coasters.
> Dan

--
Dan, 5J

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 01:50 05 April 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
>I got up to 15,000' today on a 3.5 hour flight.Â* There were four private

>owners flying and several flights in a Grob.Â* I don't know who was in
>that ship.
>
>And, Dan, 15K is like 9K in Florida!
>
>On 4/4/2020 4:12 PM, wrote:
>> Well soaring isn’t dead everywhere. Today we got 14 flights in,
private
>ships, and all three of the 1-26’s and solo flights in the club blanik.
>Social distancing in order, wipe downs of the club birds and all had fun.
>We didn’t need any ventilators but we did get up close to 7,000ft,
thats
>thin air for us east coasters.
>> Dan
>
>--
>Dan, 5J
>

Selfish and self centred on so many levels - so much stupidity in the USA.

[Dan Marotta]

Given your email address which includes ducati, I will assume you're
from Italy.Â* You guys are having a pretty rough time and I feel sorry
for you.Â* But...Â* In the desert southwest of the USA, it is very easy to
maintain personal separation that has been deemed to be "safe" from the
virus transmission standpoint.Â* Couple that with a self launching sail
plane and I do not have to come anywhere near another person.

You will get through this and back to flying.Â* Peace.

On 4/5/2020 5:28 AM, Paul T wrote:
> At 01:50 05 April 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I got up to 15,000' today on a 3.5 hour flight.ÂÂ* There were four private
>> owners flying and several flights in a Grob.ÂÂ* I don't know who was in
>> that ship.
>>
>> And, Dan, 15K is like 9K in Florida!
>>
>> On 4/4/2020 4:12 PM, wrote:
>>> Well soaring isn’t dead everywhere. Today we got 14 flights in,
> private
>> ships, and all three of the 1-26’s and solo flights in the club blanik.
>> Social distancing in order, wipe downs of the club birds and all had fun.
>> We didn’t need any ventilators but we did get up close to 7,000ft,
> thats
>> thin air for us east coasters.
>>> Dan
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
>>
> Selfish and self centred on so many levels - so much stupidity in the USA.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Dear Dan,

and what happen if you have an accident?

Please do not involve anyone else. Stay there and....Peace.

Carlo (from Italy)

[Bob Youngblood]

On Saturday, April 4, 2020 at 6:12:16 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Well soaring isn’t dead everywhere. Today we got 14 flights in, private ships, and all three of the 1-26’s and solo flights in the club blanik. Social distancing in order, wipe downs of the club birds and all had fun. We didn’t need any ventilators but we did get up close to 7,000ft, thats thin air for us east coasters.
> Dan

Most likely all clubs are somewhat curtailed in activity, ours certainly is, being in Florida in some hot areas makes a difference. Our club is practicing good social distancing rules, yes, our activity is way down and could not have come at a worse time.
I was able to tow my wife in her 24 and another person in their private ship yesterday and they landed at my place and stored the gliders in the hangar. I do not mind towing anyone as long as they hook up themselves with the towline and I will be 200 feet away in the Pawnee. The self launch guys certainly have the best practice with no help needed.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 15:24 05 April 2020, wrote:
>Dear Dan,
>
>and what happen if you have an accident?
>
>Please do not involve anyone else. Stay there and....Peace.
>
>Carlo (from Italy)
>

Exactly...….divert funds and resources away from those that are going to
need it most, run the risk of transmitting the virus etc. etc. -The US is
going to be hit hard - its just starting. Self entitlement over social
responsibility eh Dan!... your a moron of the highest calibre.... and no
just because I ride a Ducati does not mean I'm from Italy

[[email protected]]

Carlo, I am truly sorry for what you folks are going thru over there. It is heartbreaking on many levels.

With that being said, where I and other guys fly here at various places, we are not experiencing this to the degree you are. We are definitely following all the posted guidelines. As such, even though you guys are having it bad, do you expect us to stop our lives, sit at home, and just lament over the conditions in other areas?

I could bring up many facts regarding Italy that are your cultures own doing which has exasterbated your situation. You have a majorly aged population, one of the highest rates of smoking and lung disease in all of EU along with fairly inefficient and antiquated socialized medicine. I think an honest analysis would acknowledge those factors as significant in your situation..

One of your countrymen asked what would happen if I got in a wreck over here. Well, I would take my chances, I face the same issue just driving to the store to refill my dwindling supply of toilet paper. Maybe I should just live a chicken little life and plan on using pages of the sears robuck catalog for ass wipe.

My point in the post was not to rub anyones nose in it who are living in areas where soaring is definitely not possible, but to encourage guys in other areas that there are safe ways to continue to enjoy what we all love to do, safely and of no risk to anyone. In our situation, we all drove direct to the airport, handled our own ships, flew and went home. The only exception being the clubs 1-26 which was flown by two separate guys who wiped down thoroughly between flights.

If folks think they have a need to stay housebound for the next two weeks, thats their and their local governments decision. I dare say there is no one on here who is not going to go out for groceries sometime in the next two weeks. Until you truly stay home that long, please don’t be critical of our club and others for our limited activities. Your “grocery� trip is more of a risk to yourself and the public than our little solo flying outing.
Dan

[Charles Longley]

Here’s my opinion because I am not afraid to share it. If you choose to fly solo in your personal ship right now social distancing isn’t really an issue. Sharing a club ship isn’t the greatest idea. It’s very hard to get the cockpit completely sanitized. Then there’s the issue of having an off airport landing or accident. Someone’s going to have to come get you on an off airport landing. If you have an injury do you really want to go to the hospital right now? Not only are you exposing yourself to disease you’ll be using supplies and resources that would be better used for a Covid 19 patient.

My club has not completely shutdown. They’ve cancelled scheduled operations and left it up to the individual members and tow pilots to decide if they want to fly. I haven’t heard of any operations in the last three weeks.

Personally I don’t intend to fly until sometime in May. I’ll look at what’s happening with the pandemic and make a decision then. I am a firm believer in the ability of each pilot to make their own go/no go decision.

[George Haeh]

"And what if you have an accident?"

If we never get out of our beds or step outside,yes, we will be less exposed to accident risk – at the consequence that our physical and mental health will deteriorate along with family relationships, in some cases leading to domestic violence, some involving police and emergency medical services.

Inactivity leads to obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, accelerated deterioration of joints and musculature, along with mood disorders and self medication with alcohol and other substances, which will in their own turn burden health care services.

[Charles Longley]

You be you. Make your own decision.

[[email protected]]

Hello Charles,
I agree with most all you shared. As for off field landing, no one here is even contemplating going anywhere. Its all just been local flying period.

As for the potential of an accident, really, do you think we should all stay home for fear of getting into a wreck in our cars or our gliders? Come on now, if we are being called to have that fear now, why not all the time? Because maybe when you have your wreck the kids school bus also is going to have a wreck and OR’s are going to be limited, etc ect ect, tou fill in the blanks of possible situations. Its not an issue of not being socially responsible, its a matter of applying informed common sense.

That being said, if I lived in the NY, NJ, or LA area, I would give a more serious thought to limited or overloaded medical facilities. We do not have that situation here.

[[email protected]]

Paul T, my tow duties and creation of a protcal to allow soaring is providing “mental healthy� services to my community, theres my “social responsibility�. And please refrain from personal epitaphs. If I am an “idiot�, I could consider you “ignorant� of present social reality and how the world really works. But I will show a measure of personal restraint.

[Charles Longley]

Like I said everyone needs to make their own decision based on their circumstances. I do know one thing. If I was flying right now I damn sure wouldn’t be on here crowing about it. It’s very insensitive to the international gliding community.

[[email protected]]

I have no interest and limited knowledge of the international scene, once again my purpose is to encourage and support our domestic soaring community. And hopefully demonstrate that in certain areas guys can still do some soaring safely and socially responsibly. I sure hope most folks here can get that objective. Soaring here in the states is declining, and rather rapidly imop. I would like to help add enthusiasm where I can. This probably is the wrong forum for that, as most here are already emphatically hooked on soaring, but you never know who you might reach. Once again Charles, absolutely no offense intended at all. I appreciate you guys. As to some of the personal slanders, I ignore most of that stuff, most of the time. It comes with the internet as well as misunderstandings when one can’t speak face to face and expound ideas more fully.
Sincerely, Dan

[Dan Marotta]

Hi Carlo,

I just won't have an accident! :-D Yes, I know that sounds arrogant, but
after 47 years and many thousands of hours of accident free flying, it's
a reasonable bet. Still, I am being more cautious and conservative in my
flying.Â* My wife and I were planning to fly our Cessna 180K today but,
given the 14 mph quartering cross wind, we elected not to fly for just
the reason you stated.

I'll now go to the garage and replace the rear brake light switch on my
Harley.Â* It's not as fast as a Ducati, but much more comfortable!

Dan (My Father was from Sicily)

On 4/5/2020 9:24 AM, wrote:
> Dear Dan,
>
> and what happen if you have an accident?
>
> Please do not involve anyone else. Stay there and....Peace.
>
> Carlo (from Italy)

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Well, I tried to be nice, but...Â* Buzz off.

On 4/5/2020 9:44 AM, Paul T wrote:
> At 15:24 05 April 2020, wrote:
>> Dear Dan,
>>
>> and what happen if you have an accident?
>>
>> Please do not involve anyone else. Stay there and....Peace.
>>
>> Carlo (from Italy)
>>
> Exactly...….divert funds and resources away from those that are going to
> need it most, run the risk of transmitting the virus etc. etc. -The US is
> going to be hit hard - its just starting. Self entitlement over social
> responsibility eh Dan!... your a moron of the highest calibre.... and no
> just because I ride a Ducati does not mean I'm from Italy
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

My friend told me yesterday, "If I land out, don't come to get me. I
don't want to expose you to anything (he's a doctor).Â* I'll call my wife
and she will come."Â* Though, for her it would be a 2 hour drive to the
airport, plus find and hook up his trailer, etc.

Now, for the lighter side, his battery failed shortly after take off.Â*
He announced the problem and said that he'd be turning his radio off.Â*
We met in flight around 2 - 2.5 hours later and flew together for many
miles (never closer than 100 feet).Â* Having flown in light sink for a
long time and feeling uncomfortable with the altitude (I NEVER rely on
the engine) I turned back and he continued happily on.

After landing, I remarked about how much more performance his ship has
than mine, telling him how I turned back because I was below glide slope
for home and he just kept going outbound.Â* He said, "Oh, I didn't have a
vario.Â* It quit an hour or so earlier!"Â* Oh, yes, we always kept 10 or
more feet between us the whole time.

Dan, next time you get to Moriarty, look me up and we'll share a beer or
two.Â* Dan

On 4/5/2020 9:52 AM, Charles Longley wrote:
> Here’s my opinion because I am not afraid to share it. If you choose to fly solo in your personal ship right now social distancing isn’t really an issue. Sharing a club ship isn’t the greatest idea. It’s very hard to get the cockpit completely sanitized. Then there’s the issue of having an off airport landing or accident. Someone’s going to have to come get you on an off airport landing. If you have an injury do you really want to go to the hospital right now? Not only are you exposing yourself to disease you’ll be using supplies and resources that would be better used for a Covid 19 patient.
>
> My club has not completely shutdown. They’ve cancelled scheduled operations and left it up to the individual members and tow pilots to decide if they want to fly. I haven’t heard of any operations in the last three weeks.
>
> Personally I don’t intend to fly until sometime in May. I’ll look at what’s happening with the pandemic and make a decision then. I am a firm believer in the ability of each pilot to make their own go/no go decision.

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Will do. I might be up your way early june for a few 13m record attempts if our texas site is still in lockdown.
Dan

p.s. just to **** off the libs, I forgot to ask you what guns I should bring? lol

[Dan Marotta]

Bring what you like.Â* We have an indoor range down the road, a block
from the brewery, and can shoot anywhere on public land.Â* Note the
brewery/shooting must be done in proper order...

On 4/5/2020 11:32 AM, wrote:
> Will do. I might be up your way early june for a few 13m record attempts if our texas site is still in lockdown.
> Dan
>
> p.s. just to **** off the libs, I forgot to ask you what guns I should bring? lol

--
Dan, 5J

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

At 17:32 05 April 2020, wrote:
>Will do. I might be up your way early june for a few 13m record
attempts if
>our texas site is still in lockdown.
>Dan
>
>p.s. just to **** off the libs, I forgot to ask you what guns I should
>bring? lol

It's not personal. It is a general criticism of the attitude that the rules

don't apply to some, that you can carry on with your normal life as
though nothing was happening.
I saw a comment that "it is not a problem in my area", to that you
should add the word yet. If we fail to heed the warnings it will become
a real problem. I have some sympathy with those in the USA, you do
not have a leader, you have the spinning orange man who used to be
indecisive, now he cannot make up his mind.
Over here the instruction is stay at home, every thing else is secondary.
There are exceptions but some people just have no sense of
responsibility and ignore the rules. That is a danger to us all. It seems
like what we are doing is winning, we will have fewer cases and deaths
as the result of staying home. To be clear I don't like it, I have just
bought a glider which I will not get to fly for several months. I may not
like it but I see the absolute necessity.
I know the US constitution makes it difficult for people to comply with
instructions to not do what they normally do, in this particular case it
may literally be the death of you, or your loved ones.
I don't think carrying a gun is going to save you from the virus either.

[George Haeh]

Let's also observe that the likelihood of virus transmission in the outdoors is vanishingly small where the lightest breeze will instantly disperse the virus.

Compared that to going to the interior space of a grocery store and the parking lot, which has other hazards:

"A 35-year-old woman is in hospital in life-threatening condition after she was hit by an SUV in a Cochrane, Alta., parking lot on Saturday.

RCMP said at 1:45 p.m., police responded to a report of a serious collision in the parking lot of No Frills, located on Fifth Avenue.

A pedestrian had been hit by a Ford Edge SUV, driven by an 83-year-old woman, and was taken by ambulance to hospital."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/pedestrian-hit-cochrane-1.5522324

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 17:15 05 April 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
>Well, I tried to be nice, but...Â* Buzz off.

You are not nice, you are a selfish, self-centred, self-entitled arrogant
prick - a moron of the highest calibre, that is only thinking of himself
and not others. Maybe you'll change your tune and actions when colleagues,
friends, family members or indeed yourself start suffering from this virus.

[John Foster]

On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 5:30:08 AM UTC-6, Paul T wrote:
> At 17:15 05 April 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >Well, I tried to be nice, but...Â* Buzz off.
>
> You are not nice, you are a selfish, self-centred, self-entitled arrogant
> prick - a moron of the highest calibre, that is only thinking of himself
> and not others. Maybe you'll change your tune and actions when colleagues,
> friends, family members or indeed yourself start suffering from this virus.

Wow! Bitter much?

Not every healthcare facility is overburdened in the US here. In fact, many facilities here are scrounging for work. Many doctors have asked their patients, especially the chronically ill ones, to stay home, and are doing appointments over Zoom or FaceTime, or some other equivalent video chat. While the stories of the healthcare system being overwhelmed in large population centers are true, there are many that are sitting around twiddling their thumbs. So... if you live in the rural parts of the US, and your local healthcare facilities are not currently being overburdened by COVID-19 patients, then if you WERE to have an accident, you would NOT be taking away from others care, or overburdening the system.

Where we live in rural MT, we have had a few cases. We expect to peak in our cases by the end of the month. If at that time our healthcare system is getting overloaded, then use common sense and good judgement, and stay at home. Otherwise, get out and enjoy the skies. It is a GREAT way to socially distance yourself, particularly if you have a motor glider and don't need to rely on anyone else to help you. You are NOT being selfish or self-serving by doing this. You are NOT exposing yourself or other people unnecessarily to increased risk. You "city folks" need to wake up and realize there is a whole other world out there and way of life out in the country, with a whole other set of issues than what people deal with in the city. And not everything that applies in an urban area applies in a rural area.

[[email protected]]

Social Distancing can be done in numerous ways. Maintaining airworthiness of aircraft and currency will keep our pilots, and aircraft flying safely after the epidemic passes. I’m not worried about spreading the virus when I fly my single Plane. Unlike when I go to work and “Potentially� carry 180 people in a confined tube 5 hours across the country.
Together we will survive this.
Howie

[2G]

On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:24:48 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Dear Dan,
>
> and what happen if you have an accident?
>
> Please do not involve anyone else. Stay there and....Peace.
>
> Carlo (from Italy)

The same as if he had an accident driving to the grocery store or tripped and got a concussion walking around the block.

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

The one thing I'd add to this is that while we as pilots very much have a "Pilot In Command" attitude when it comes to risk-taking, public health emergencies with highly infectious diseases do not limit the risks we take solely to us. One person can spread an infection to thousands of people in a matter of weeks though the bucket brigade of human exposure and that spread can reach those thousands before there is any evidence it happened because of the time lags of incubation. In addition to this pre-symptomatic spreading, this sucker spreads in half the people (and probably the majority of cases) asymptomatically - it's how we get so-called super-spreaders.

If you have your own motorglider assembled in your own hangar and need zero help to get airborne you are probably a minimal risk to others. If you need to go to the gas station to get to/from the airport, require help getting assembled, pushing out to the line, getting connected to the tow rope, need a wing runner (did you wipe down the wingtip?), help getting off there runway after you land, help with disassembly, need to pay your tow bill in person, etc. you increase your risk of infecting someone or of being infected by someone, so you can begins the bucket brigade anew. Of course this is on top of (and more likely than) the already mentioned risk of an accident or outlanding.

On top of all this, there are state and local restrictions on "non-essential" movements outside the home. In many cases (even if you can convince yourself that flying your glider is "essential") the rules restrict you from leaving the county where you live to do it.

There are reasons why these restrictions have been put in place and it's not to protect you from your own foolish decisions nearly so much as it is trying to protect the rest of us from your foolish decisions.

Here is a link to state-level restrictions. Towns and counties usually have their own. If you plan to go flying (or do anything beyond get food really), read up before you venture out.

https://www.nga.org/coronavirus/#glance

Stay safe. The sooner we squash this thing flat, the sooner we can all get to the next step - testing and wearing masks for 18 months!

My new glider was delivered to the US in July 2019. I'm looking forward to flying it for the second time in Spring of 2021. Patience!

Andy Blackburn
9B

[Ventus_a]

;1016036']At 17:15 05 April 2020, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well, I tried to be nice, but...Â* Buzz off.

You are not nice, you are a selfish, self-centred, self-entitled arrogant
prick - a moron of the highest calibre, that is only thinking of himself
and not others. Maybe you'll change your tune and actions when colleagues,
friends, family members or indeed yourself start suffering from this virus.

Having strong opinions and being unafraid to share them doesn't automatically make one a selfish, self-centred, self-entitled arrogant prick much less a moron of any calibre

Too often rules cater to the lowest common denominator and don't allow for people to engaging in critical thinking to evaluate their personal situation vis a vis COVID-19 (or any other situation) and employ, and let's use an aviation term here, an Alternative Means Of Compliance to meet the intent of the rule

I have recently come back to flying after a 3.5 year break and have had to fly club ships instead of either of my toys. My club operates in quite a built up area and as all of New Zealand is in a 4 week lock down I haven't been able to fly.

I'd be more than happy to local fly If I could and don't begrudge anyone who can still do that wherever they live if they can do so in a responsible fashion as many on here are doing

Colin

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I have come to this simple realization.

If I were to bring back something deadly to one of my young grandchildren, and they should die due to my selfishness, I would never forgive myself.

I can wait.

John DeRosa (OHM Ω)

[Ramy[_2_]]

No doubt we risking spreading the virus to others the moment we leave home, especially if we are not careful.
No doubt we risking others when we introduce them to soaring or give them glider rides.
Think about it.
The safest thing is to stay home. Order groceries online and practice total isolation for months and hopefully you will not go stir crazy. I know I would.
Luckily, soaring is not dead everywhere.

Ramy

[2G]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> No doubt we risking spreading the virus to others the moment we leave home, especially if we are not careful.
> No doubt we risking others when we introduce them to soaring or give them glider rides.
> Think about it.
> The safest thing is to stay home. Order groceries online and practice total isolation for months and hopefully you will not go stir crazy. I know I would.
> Luckily, soaring is not dead everywhere.
>
> Ramy

There is increasing evidence that most COVID transmission is airborne:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11359723/video-cough-can-spread-cloud-coronavirus-across-supermarket-lingers/
This is different from other infectious diseases that are transmitted by touching an infected surface. One reporter infected 4-5 friends at lunch and none touched any of the others or their food, plates or utensils. Wearing a mask does not protect you from an infected person - it protects others from you. CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.

Tom

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:04:18 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> > No doubt we risking spreading the virus to others the moment we leave home, especially if we are not careful.
> > No doubt we risking others when we introduce them to soaring or give them glider rides.
> > Think about it.
> > The safest thing is to stay home. Order groceries online and practice total isolation for months and hopefully you will not go stir crazy. I know I would.
> > Luckily, soaring is not dead everywhere.
> >
> > Ramy
>
> There is increasing evidence that most COVID transmission is airborne:
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11359723/video-cough-can-spread-cloud-coronavirus-across-supermarket-lingers/
> This is different from other infectious diseases that are transmitted by touching an infected surface. One reporter infected 4-5 friends at lunch and none touched any of the others or their food, plates or utensils. Wearing a mask does not protect you from an infected person - it protects others from you. CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.
>
> Tom

Do viruses swim through the air like sperm going for a goal?

[Blue Whale]

Gregg, you of all people should know how a single fart can clear a room?

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-4, Blue Whale wrote:
> Gregg, you of all people should know how a single fart can clear a room?

HIV is a virus why haven't we been under house arrest since the 80's?

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

At 16:13 10 April 2020, wrote:
>On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-4, Blue Whale wrote:
>> Gregg, you of all people should know how a single fart can clear a
room?
>
>HIV is a virus why haven't we been under house arrest since the 80's?

HIV is indeed a virus. The difference is that is is pretty difficult to
transfer the HIV virus. You cannot get HIV from merely being close to
someone who has the virus or indeed touching something a HIV
sufferer has coughed over. The transmission is completely different.
It seems that Coronavirus is pretty easy to get, it is emerging that it
may be even more transmittable than most other viruses. Only time will
tell if it is as transmittable as diseases such as Small Pox but it is
beginning to look that way. I would have thought all the above was
pretty obvious.

[b]

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 12:45:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:
> At 16:13 10 April 2020, wrote:
> >On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 11:20:52 AM UTC-4, Blue Whale wrote:
> >> Gregg, you of all people should know how a single fart can clear a
> room?
> >
> >HIV is a virus why haven't we been under house arrest since the 80's?
>
> HIV is indeed a virus. The difference is that is is pretty difficult to
> transfer the HIV virus. You cannot get HIV from merely being close to
> someone who has the virus or indeed touching something a HIV
> sufferer has coughed over. The transmission is completely different.
> It seems that Coronavirus is pretty easy to get, it is emerging that it
> may be even more transmittable than most other viruses. Only time will
> tell if it is as transmittable as diseases such as Small Pox but it is
> beginning to look that way. I would have thought all the above was
> pretty obvious.

How can non living chunks of RNA/protein behave as radically different animals? HIV bits of protein can only be transferred by sodomy or blood but Yellow Flu-aids bits of protein can fly up to 5' 11" through space hunting down new victims. Something doesn't add up.

[WB]

Viruses come in a variety of sizes and structural makeup. Some relatively large, some small. Some are chemically tough, some very delicate. Some can only stay viable in liquid and fall apart as they dry out. Some can take drying but are quickly destroyed by UV. The variation is huge. Google is your friend. Information on basic virology, written for the lay person, is easy to find on the net.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:33:52 -0700, b wrote:

> How can non living chunks of RNA/protein behave as radically different
> animals? HIV bits of protein can only be transferred by sodomy or blood

You left out normal sex and birth. Both can transmit HIV.

> but Yellow Flu-aids bits of protein can fly up to 5' 11" through space
> hunting down new victims. Something doesn't add up.
>
Some virus types can survive drying out (coronavirii, flu) while others
can't (HIV).

That's just the same as animals: some can survive in air (crocs, turtles)
while others can't (fish, octopii) but all of these can live in water
just as all virus types that infect humans and other animals can live in
body fluids.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[[email protected]]

All the glider manufacturers post cool CFD videos. Well it works for coughing too. Not sure what the COVID-19 best L/D is, but seems like it's more than 6 feet.

https://youtu.be/liNhs-L8J5g

Andy

[Paul B[_2_]]

>CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.

Yes, but we are not trying to filter out individual viruses. What you really trying to filter out are droplets that carry the viruses. The droplets are much bigger and hence more likely to be captured by more primitive filters. Bigger the droplet, more likely it will be intercepted. Note the bigger the droplet the more likely it will carry a greater load of viruses and more infectious.


Cheers

Paul


On Thursday, 9 April 2020 12:04:18 UTC+10, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> > No doubt we risking spreading the virus to others the moment we leave home, especially if we are not careful.
> > No doubt we risking others when we introduce them to soaring or give them glider rides.
> > Think about it.
> > The safest thing is to stay home. Order groceries online and practice total isolation for months and hopefully you will not go stir crazy. I know I would.
> > Luckily, soaring is not dead everywhere.
> >
> > Ramy
>
> There is increasing evidence that most COVID transmission is airborne:
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11359723/video-cough-can-spread-cloud-coronavirus-across-supermarket-lingers/
> This is different from other infectious diseases that are transmitted by touching an infected surface. One reporter infected 4-5 friends at lunch and none touched any of the others or their food, plates or utensils. Wearing a mask does not protect you from an infected person - it protects others from you. CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.
>
> Tom

[[email protected]]

>non-medical grade masks don't stop it either.


The goto mask for the medical folks is N95. That passes 5% at 300nm. If perfect stopping was required, the cases among medical folks would be much worse.

Another note about the N95 masks is that some have an exhale valve. This makes the mask more comfortable but it only filters incoming air. The masks designed for medical use don't appear to have these valves?


I think it's about attenuating the transmission odds so that the number of virus particles you get does not overwhelm your immune system.

If we are talking about odds, then the available tools are limiting trips, social distancing, at least some mask for sender and receiver, building ventilation, and situational awareness.

There is a fitted cloth mask design floating around that uses two layers of cloth. With my beard, it seems to seal better than the pressed fiber masks and I can put a layer of proper filter media in between the cloth layers.

Interesting times. Get to research and make technical things with a sewing machine.

[Me]

On Saturday, 11 April 2020 08:49:20 UTC-5, wrote:
>
> There is a fitted cloth mask design floating around that uses two layers of cloth. With my beard, it seems to seal better than the pressed fiber masks and I can put a layer of proper filter media in between the cloth layers.
>

If possible, please provide information on what are available “proper filter media�, including where to get it. Thanks!

[[email protected]]

Ok let me reorient this post back to topic. As of today it looks like alot of clubs and comm ops ARE flying in a limited manner, heres my list:
Central AL Soaring/Birmingham area- solo flights
Coastal Soaring/pensacola- all ops
Moriarty- solo
Sunflower/KS-solo ?
Treasure Coast/S FL-solo and ?
Seminole/central FL-solo and ?
Mississippi Soaring/jackson area- solo

Anyone else flying?

[Shaun Wheeler]

Haven't seen this much hysteria since AIDs first hit.

And the reactions of many remind me exactly of that.


Thanks for posting the open clubs.

Memphis Soaring is closed to non-members, is not conducting any flight training, is not accepting any new members and is closed to the public. I learned this last night.

I am waiting to find out what Eagleville, TN is doing. If they open I will be hauling my L13 there to get this done. If this season ends up being a bust I'll sell both sailplanes and use the money to build up the Long Ez I've been looking at since last November.

Some of these 'clubs' and operators may be able to weather a year with zero income. Some may not.

I guess we'll find out.

[Dan Marotta]

This looks like an easy to make mask:
https://vp.nyt.com/video/2020/04/10/85988_1_HowToMakeaMask_wg_1080p.mp4

My wife found a way on youtube to make a mask using a bandana and a
couple of pony tail stretchable bands.

On 4/11/2020 7:49 AM, wrote:
>> non-medical grade masks don't stop it either.
>
> The goto mask for the medical folks is N95. That passes 5% at 300nm. If perfect stopping was required, the cases among medical folks would be much worse.
>
> Another note about the N95 masks is that some have an exhale valve. This makes the mask more comfortable but it only filters incoming air. The masks designed for medical use don't appear to have these valves?
>
>
> I think it's about attenuating the transmission odds so that the number of virus particles you get does not overwhelm your immune system.
>
> If we are talking about odds, then the available tools are limiting trips, social distancing, at least some mask for sender and receiver, building ventilation, and situational awareness.
>
> There is a fitted cloth mask design floating around that uses two layers of cloth. With my beard, it seems to seal better than the pressed fiber masks and I can put a layer of proper filter media in between the cloth layers.
>
> Interesting times. Get to research and make technical things with a sewing machine.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[LOV2AV8]

Tucson Soaring Club.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:12:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Ok let me reorient this post back to topic. As of today it looks like alot of clubs and comm ops ARE flying in a limited manner, heres my list:
> Central AL Soaring/Birmingham area- solo flights
> Coastal Soaring/pensacola- all ops
> Moriarty- solo
> Sunflower/KS-solo ?
> Treasure Coast/S FL-solo and ?
> Seminole/central FL-solo and ?
> Mississippi Soaring/jackson area- solo
>
> Anyone else flying?

Leeward Air Ranch, private ships
Fly In Ranches, Private ships

[Ramy[_2_]]

Few places in California providing tows as well. Check OLC.

Ramy

[WB]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:12:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Ok let me reorient this post back to topic. As of today it looks like alot of clubs and comm ops ARE flying in a limited manner, heres my list:
> Central AL Soaring/Birmingham area- solo flights
> Coastal Soaring/pensacola- all ops
> Moriarty- solo
> Sunflower/KS-solo ?
> Treasure Coast/S FL-solo and ?
> Seminole/central FL-solo and ?
> Mississippi Soaring/jackson area- solo
>
> Anyone else flying?

Hey Dan,

Southern Eagles Soaring, Butler, Georgia flew today (Saturday, April 11). We only did around 6 tows. Everything that launched stuck for most of the afternoon and we aren't doing training right now so not so many tows. We conducted "minimal operations" as mandated in the Governor of Georgia's shelter-in-place rules. We limited the size of our group while indoors (not much of that), only did single pilot tows, no 2 people in a glider ops of any kind. We had a spray bottle of diluted rubbing alcohol to clean everything and we took everyone's temperature. That turned out to be kind of a hassle. I got one of those talking infrared thermometers. We taped it to a long stick to maintain our social distancing. It was very difficult and somewhat painful to get the thing inserted, even with lots of KY lube. It seems to me that it was poorly designed for it's purpose, being relatively large for a thermometer and shaped like a pistol. Also, once inserted the little electronic voice was so muffled by the intervening anatomy that it as very hard to hear it. Maybe I need to review the instructions.

[Dan Marotta]

Moriarty had several good flights today.

On 4/11/2020 5:05 PM, Ramy wrote:
> Few places in California providing tows as well. Check OLC.
>
> Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

[Shaun Wheeler]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 8:48:07 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
> On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:12:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Ok let me reorient this post back to topic. As of today it looks like alot of clubs and comm ops ARE flying in a limited manner, heres my list:
> > Central AL Soaring/Birmingham area- solo flights
> > Coastal Soaring/pensacola- all ops
> > Moriarty- solo
> > Sunflower/KS-solo ?
> > Treasure Coast/S FL-solo and ?
> > Seminole/central FL-solo and ?
> > Mississippi Soaring/jackson area- solo
> >
> > Anyone else flying?
>
> Hey Dan,
>
> Southern Eagles Soaring, Butler, Georgia flew today (Saturday, April 11). We only did around 6 tows. Everything that launched stuck for most of the afternoon and we aren't doing training right now so not so many tows. We conducted "minimal operations" as mandated in the Governor of Georgia's shelter-in-place rules. We limited the size of our group while indoors (not much of that), only did single pilot tows, no 2 people in a glider ops of any kind. We had a spray bottle of diluted rubbing alcohol to clean everything and we took everyone's temperature. That turned out to be kind of a hassle. I got one of those talking infrared thermometers. We taped it to a long stick to maintain our social distancing. It was very difficult and somewhat painful to get the thing inserted, even with lots of KY lube. It seems to me that it was poorly designed for it's purpose, being relatively large for a thermometer and shaped like a pistol. Also, once inserted the little electronic voice was so muffled by the intervening anatomy that it as very hard to hear it. Maybe I need to review the instructions.


The same people who distrust the gooberment also demand the gooberment to come up with solutions.

Also, KY isn't the best lubricant (I say this based you decades of corporate and military experience), try albolene. It's water soluble and, according to upper management, doesn't leave as nasty an aftertaste.

[Ventus_a]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 9:12:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Ok let me reorient this post back to topic. As of today it looks like alot of clubs and comm ops ARE flying in a limited manner, heres my list:
Central AL Soaring/Birmingham area- solo flights
Coastal Soaring/pensacola- all ops
Moriarty- solo
Sunflower/KS-solo ?
Treasure Coast/S FL-solo and ?
Seminole/central FL-solo and ?
Mississippi Soaring/jackson area- solo

Anyone else flying?

Hey Dan,

Southern Eagles Soaring, Butler, Georgia flew today (Saturday, April 11). We only did around 6 tows. Everything that launched stuck for most of the afternoon and we aren't doing training right now so not so many tows. We conducted "minimal operations" as mandated in the Governor of Georgia's shelter-in-place rules. We limited the size of our group while indoors (not much of that), only did single pilot tows, no 2 people in a glider ops of any kind. We had a spray bottle of diluted rubbing alcohol to clean everything and we took everyone's temperature. That turned out to be kind of a hassle. I got one of those talking infrared thermometers. We taped it to a long stick to maintain our social distancing. It was very difficult and somewhat painful to get the thing inserted, even with lots of KY lube. It seems to me that it was poorly designed for it's purpose, being relatively large for a thermometer and shaped like a pistol. Also, once inserted the little electronic voice was so muffled by the intervening anatomy that it as very hard to hear it. Maybe I need to review the instructions.

Excellent RRTFLMAO!

[[email protected]]

Why is it called "KY Jelly?" Is it mined in Kentucky?

[[email protected]]

Who has that for a contest number? He must be one “slippery� fellow. Does it repell leaches?

[C-FFKQ (42)]

On Sunday, 12 April 2020 08:19:22 UTC-4, wrote:
> Why is it called "KY Jelly?" Is it mined in Kentucky?

From the Canadian Website for K-Y (https://www.k-y.ca/en/faqs/)...

4. What is the meaning behind the brand name "K-Y®"?
The origins of the brand name "K-Y®" are unknown. Two popular myths are that (1) it was created in Kentucky and (2) the letters represent the key ingredients used to make the lubricant. Although we can confirm that neither of these myths are true, the origin/meaning of the name continues to remain somewhat of a mystery.

[[email protected]]

Seminole-Lake is only towing private ships right now. No training, rentals, or scenic flights. However, there is a group that is organizing daily races/tasks that are open to anyone that is flying. Rich Owen

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:12:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Ok let me reorient this post back to topic. As of today it looks like alot of clubs and comm ops ARE flying in a limited manner, heres my list:
> Central AL Soaring/Birmingham area- solo flights
> Coastal Soaring/pensacola- all ops
> Moriarty- solo
> Sunflower/KS-solo ?
> Treasure Coast/S FL-solo and ?
> Seminole/central FL-solo and ?
> Mississippi Soaring/jackson area- solo
>
> Anyone else flying?

Wurtsboro NY and Blairstown NJ are doing limited flying. Singles only.
UH

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 05:19:20 -0700, markmocho53 wrote:

> Why is it called "KY Jelly?" Is it mined in Kentucky?

Maybe the formulation was invented by two guys called Keith and Yancy?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Marotta]

....And shouldn't they call it "Jam" 'cuz that's what it's used for...

On 4/12/2020 6:19 AM, wrote:
> Why is it called "KY Jelly?" Is it mined in Kentucky?

--
Dan, 5J

[2G]

On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 3:19:16 AM UTC-7, Paul B wrote:
> >CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.
>
> Yes, but we are not trying to filter out individual viruses. What you really trying to filter out are droplets that carry the viruses. The droplets are much bigger and hence more likely to be captured by more primitive filters. Bigger the droplet, more likely it will be intercepted. Note the bigger the droplet the more likely it will carry a greater load of viruses and more infectious.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Thursday, 9 April 2020 12:04:18 UTC+10, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> > > No doubt we risking spreading the virus to others the moment we leave home, especially if we are not careful.
> > > No doubt we risking others when we introduce them to soaring or give them glider rides.
> > > Think about it.
> > > The safest thing is to stay home. Order groceries online and practice total isolation for months and hopefully you will not go stir crazy. I know I would.
> > > Luckily, soaring is not dead everywhere.
> > >
> > > Ramy
> >
> > There is increasing evidence that most COVID transmission is airborne:
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11359723/video-cough-can-spread-cloud-coronavirus-across-supermarket-lingers/
> > This is different from other infectious diseases that are transmitted by touching an infected surface. One reporter infected 4-5 friends at lunch and none touched any of the others or their food, plates or utensils. Wearing a mask does not protect you from an infected person - it protects others from you. CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.
> >
> > Tom

Not so - the lung tissue can shed CV during a cough that is not on a moisture droplet. In the anecdote that I gave there was no coughing involved, just normal conversation.

Tom

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 10:29:50 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:04:18 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:52:55 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> > > No doubt we risking spreading the virus to others the moment we leave home, especially if we are not careful.
> > > No doubt we risking others when we introduce them to soaring or give them glider rides.
> > > Think about it.
> > > The safest thing is to stay home. Order groceries online and practice total isolation for months and hopefully you will not go stir crazy. I know I would.
> > > Luckily, soaring is not dead everywhere.
> > >
> > > Ramy
> >
> > There is increasing evidence that most COVID transmission is airborne:
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11359723/video-cough-can-spread-cloud-coronavirus-across-supermarket-lingers/
> > This is different from other infectious diseases that are transmitted by touching an infected surface. One reporter infected 4-5 friends at lunch and none touched any of the others or their food, plates or utensils. Wearing a mask does not protect you from an infected person - it protects others from you. CV size is 125nm; good air filters only catch 1000nm particles and non-medical grade masks don't stop it either. And if you do get sick it won't be like the flu - it will likely be worse, much worse.
> >
> > Tom
>
> Do viruses swim through the air like sperm going for a goal?

Sometimes it is the journey, not the destination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LYQANuyB3E.

[Shaun Wheeler]

Eagleville TN is open. Few hours drive for me but it looks like if I want to get this goat roping started it's the closest game going.

[Waveguru]

Well, you know what they say... You rope one goat....


Boggs

[[email protected]]

Shaun, you mention hauling your L13 to Eagleville to "get this done" and get this "goat rope stated".
Im curious, what are you trying to get accomplished other than going flying?

[Charles Longley]

All 4 clubs I am associated with in Washington and Oregon are shutdown in compliance with state government orders. I am OK with that.

[Shaun Wheeler]

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 10:45:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Shaun, you mention hauling your L13 to Eagleville to "get this done" and get this "goat rope stated".
> Im curious, what are you trying to get accomplished other than going flying?

Private pilot add on - glider. I'm already rated airplane single engine land and rotorcraft helicopters. I'm partway done with my BFR in powered aircraft. Should have that knocked out in the next couple weeks.

If I get that much finished I'll consider the season a success.

If we're done for the year I'll have two sailplanes for sale and when they're gone I'm buying a Long Ez project to work on this winter. I've already looked at the Long Ez and it's about 80 percent by a reputable builder.

[Shaun Wheeler]

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:10:38 PM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
> Well, you know what they say... You rope one goat....
>
>
> Boggs

People would ask what the bottom pockets on the flight suit were for.

[Dan Marotta]

I carried a survival fishing kit on one side and a big K-Bar knife plus
some other junk on the other.Â* But I was doing a lot of flying above the
Arctic Circle in Alaska at the time.

On 4/15/2020 7:20 PM, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:10:38 PM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
>> Well, you know what they say... You rope one goat....
>>
>>
>> Boggs
> People would ask what the bottom pockets on the flight suit were for.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Don Johnstone[_4_]]

At 01:20 16 April 2020, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
>On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:10:38 PM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
>> Well, you know what they say... You rope one goat....
>>
>>
>> Boggs
>
>People would ask what the bottom pockets on the flight suit were for.
>
I used them for maps and other docs. If you put a couple of rusty Tost
rings in there after a couple of months they would come out shiny, You
chinked a lot when you walked though, made creeping up on people
difficult.

[Shaun Wheeler]

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 11:15:04 AM UTC-5, Don Johnstone wrote:
> At 01:20 16 April 2020, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> >On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:10:38 PM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
> >> Well, you know what they say... You rope one goat....
> >>
> >>
> >> Boggs
> >
> >People would ask what the bottom pockets on the flight suit were for.
> >
> I used them for maps and other docs. If you put a couple of rusty Tost
> rings in there after a couple of months they would come out shiny, You
> chinked a lot when you walked though, made creeping up on people
> difficult.

I always told them it was to hold the sheep's back legs in a survival situation.