View Full Version : What have we learned from all this?
Bob Youngblood
April 5th 20, 11:07 PM
Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
What goes??? Bob
I could’n’t have said it better Bob, keep the faith.
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
Gates foundation huh? From the guy who said he was going to reduce the world's population by a few billion with vaccines.
Looks like the chinese are doing a pretty good at “reducing the worlds population”. Thanks a whole bunch, isn’t communism wonderfully honest open and “progressive”.
You guys who are mad at americans who are continuing with life and who you deem as “socially irresponsible”, Where’s your outcry at China for trying to hide/minimize this virus, lying thru their teeth while smiling at us? Hows their “social consciousness”? Yeh right, not a peep of condemnation directed their way.
Bob Youngblood
April 6th 20, 12:13 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:29:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> > The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> > The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> > Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> > What goes??? Bob
>
> Gates foundation huh? From the guy who said he was going to reduce the world's population by a few billion with vaccines.
Gregg, your ignorance is showing, the private sector will contribute more to solving this pandemic than the gov sector. If Gates can finance a solution then we should all be happy that the capitalistic system has prevailed. Looks to me like the socialist system has failed the world, what you say?
These viruses are transmitted from animal to human, have you ever been to a meat market in some third world country and watch people drink warm blood from a dead animal? where do you think the worst pandemic in recorded history started and how? Gregg, I hope that we all survive this pandemic, I also hope that a cure is found soon enough that it will reduce suffering and economic turmoil like the world has never seen. Hopefully we can start buying toilet paper and medications made in the USA, wouldn't that be a good change for all of us?
Stephen Szikora
April 6th 20, 01:47 AM
Still waiting for the part that has anything to do with soaring.
Matt Herron Jr.
April 6th 20, 02:32 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 5:47:31 PM UTC-7, Stephen Szikora wrote:
> Still waiting for the part that has anything to do with soaring.
Yes, please take this circle jerk off RAS.
son_of_flubber
April 6th 20, 02:55 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 9:32:26 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 5:47:31 PM UTC-7, Stephen Szikora wrote:
> > Still waiting for the part that has anything to do with soaring.
>
> Yes, please take this circle jerk off RAS.
But Bob is gunning for a job as a Fox News visiting expert and after that who knows? Maybe even an appointment in the Trump administration! He seems very knowledgeable and I've learned a lot from his posts.
We could talk about soaring but every time someone mentions going soaring they get yelled at by the scaredy cats.
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:55:13 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 9:32:26 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 5:47:31 PM UTC-7, Stephen Szikora wrote:
> > > Still waiting for the part that has anything to do with soaring.
> >
> > Yes, please take this circle jerk off RAS.
>
> But Bob is gunning for a job as a Fox News visiting expert and after that who knows? Maybe even an appointment in the Trump administration! He seems very knowledgeable and I've learned a lot from his posts.
Rec.aviation.soaring? Sorry, this is rec.aviation.my.political.views and rec.aviation.guns-n-ammo. Perhaps after we all get back to flying your normal newsgroup will return. Check back later.
Mike
XL5
Steve Bralla
April 6th 20, 03:51 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 7:20:03 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 8:55:13 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 9:32:26 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 5:47:31 PM UTC-7, Stephen Szikora wrote:
> > > > Still waiting for the part that has anything to do with soaring.
> > >
> > > Yes, please take this circle jerk off RAS.
> >
> > But Bob is gunning for a job as a Fox News visiting expert and after that who knows? Maybe even an appointment in the Trump administration! He seems very knowledgeable and I've learned a lot from his posts.
>
> Rec.aviation.soaring? Sorry, this is rec.aviation.my.political.views and rec.aviation.guns-n-ammo. Perhaps after we all get back to flying your normal newsgroup will return. Check back later.
>
> Mike
> XL5
These guys will agree with you about no politics on RAS if you start talking about what an Ahole Trump is.
Steve
Stop talking about soaring on this post!!!! We don’t want anymore thread drift!!!!!!
Marton KSz
April 6th 20, 07:01 AM
Sitting in your armchair on a Sunday afternoon, not having anything useful to do can be as boring as hell. But please, still don't bring your political thoughts to rec.aviation.soaring.
Find a more appropriate forum, where your extremely valuable and interesting political views and thoughts are appropriately appreciated.
Thank you!
John Foster
April 6th 20, 08:17 AM
On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 12:01:36 AM UTC-6, Marton KSz wrote:
> Sitting in your armchair on a Sunday afternoon, not having anything useful to do can be as boring as hell. But please, still don't bring your political thoughts to rec.aviation.soaring.
>
> Find a more appropriate forum, where your extremely valuable and interesting political views and thoughts are appropriately appreciated.
>
> Thank you!
While I do have some pretty strong political opinions myself, I do agree that for soaring, it is likely to divide us, at a time where that is the last thing we need. The USA is so polarized right now politically, and some people have a hard time seeing beyond another person's politics. With Soaring in a decline, we should be doing everything we can to stand together and put politics aside for now. At least with regard to soaring.
Every countries in the world knew about a possible pandemic flu since 2005.
As a matter of fact WHO send to all countries a document in form of a checklist aimed to verify if a country was ready or not for such an evenience.
Of course nobody took care about it (why spending money for that?).
Here below you can find the link to the relevant document. The preface is simply incredible: the WHO (in 2005 so 15 years ago) imagine a possible future scenery and apart some small differences (this flu takes olders and not youngers) the forecast is impressive.
WE ALL HAVE THE GOVERNMENTS WE DESERVE!!
https://www.who.int/influenza/resources/documents/FluCheck6web.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1Ugucm0AHxPTr83ZbRPLkM Tx2C72o5nGfMHAT0ffnSRvVda3pIMV0y4yo
Carlo
It isn't flu. It doesn't act like flu. The virus is not built like flu. It is a different illness. If it were a new flu we would have some known flu drugs to try and it would be much easier to develop a vaccine based on the vaccine types currently modified for annual use.
Bob Youngblood
April 6th 20, 12:18 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 9:55:13 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 9:32:26 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 5:47:31 PM UTC-7, Stephen Szikora wrote:
> > > Still waiting for the part that has anything to do with soaring.
> >
> > Yes, please take this circle jerk off RAS.
>
> But Bob is gunning for a job as a Fox News visiting expert and after that who knows? Maybe even an appointment in the Trump administration! He seems very knowledgeable and I've learned a lot from his posts.
Flubber, I have been on Fox News, Laura Ingram, Dana Loasch, Glenn Beck, Hannity and many more, I would never take a gig with any administration. Well, I take that back, I would be a great Secretary Of The Interior. I would set up a glider operation complete with Hook Ups for RV'S at several national parks. Can you imagine the Everglades Soaring Center, or Grizzly Bear Soaring from Yellowstone, or Acadia Glider Center. Who says that we don't talk about soaring.
Well, Bill Gates DID, in fact, create the World's Best SELLING Virus. It's called "Windows." And it keeps mutating. We're up to 10 now.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 6th 20, 02:09 PM
On Mon, 06 Apr 2020 05:35:10 -0700, markmocho53 wrote:
> Well, Bill Gates DID, in fact, create the World's Best SELLING Virus.
> It's called "Windows." And it keeps mutating. We're up to 10 now.
+1
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
> WE ALL HAVE THE GOVERNMENTS WE DESERVE!!
Just be glad we're not getting all the Government we're PAYING for!
“Sitting in your armchair on a Sunday afternoon, not having anything useful to do can be as boring as hell. But please, still don't bring your political thoughts to rec.aviation.soaring.
Find a more appropriate forum, where your extremely valuable and interesting political views and thoughts are appropriately appreciated. “
Mr M everything on ras doesnt have to be glide slope n vario. Many of us are broader minded and politics DOES affect soaring.
Simple solution for you, just dont check into this particular thread. How hard is that? Those of us interested in politics or philosophy or guns and how they relate to soaring can go on with our little discussions without all the snarky and demeaning comments of detractors. You guys can start your own threads and enjoy those discussions.
Simple, everybody wins.
Dan
> Simple solution for you, just dont check into this particular thread. How hard is that? Those of us interested in politics or philosophy or guns and how they relate to soaring can go on with our little discussions without all the snarky and demeaning comments of detractors. You guys can start your own threads and enjoy those discussions.
>
Of course, there is always the loony "If I were Mayor of Saskatoon" thread for comedy relief.
Ventus_a
April 6th 20, 11:22 PM
Well, Bill Gates DID, in fact, create the World's Best SELLING Virus. It's called "Windows." And it keeps mutating. We're up to 10 now.
+1 RRTFLMAO
Bob Kuykendall
April 7th 20, 03:12 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
....Yearly flu has a higher body count...
I just set a calendar reminder to check in with you on this on 20 January 2021, one year after the first US case was reported. Right now the C19 death toll stands at about 1/4 of a typical year for flu, but its growth rate in many areas is exponential and we're less than a quarter of the way through the year.
--Bob K.
On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 12:17:07 AM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
> On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 12:01:36 AM UTC-6, Marton KSz wrote:
> > Sitting in your armchair on a Sunday afternoon, not having anything useful to do can be as boring as hell. But please, still don't bring your political thoughts to rec.aviation.soaring.
> >
> > Find a more appropriate forum, where your extremely valuable and interesting political views and thoughts are appropriately appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you!
>
> While I do have some pretty strong political opinions myself, I do agree that for soaring, it is likely to divide us, at a time where that is the last thing we need. The USA is so polarized right now politically, and some people have a hard time seeing beyond another person's politics. With Soaring in a decline, we should be doing everything we can to stand together and put politics aside for now. At least with regard to soaring.
I suggest not reading - and certainly NOT POSTING on - this thread. And, at the end of the day, not much riles me more than someone wanting to infringe on my freedom of speech.
Tom
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
April 8th 20, 12:07 AM
Bob Kuykendall wrote on 4/6/2020 7:12 PM:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> ....Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>
> I just set a calendar reminder to check in with you on this on 20 January 2021, one year after the first US case was reported. Right now the C19 death toll stands at about 1/4 of a typical year for flu, but its growth rate in many areas is exponential and we're less than a quarter of the way through the year.
And, according to the CDC for the week ending March 28, flu activity is sharply
down and is now low, just the opposite of C19.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Craig Reinholt
April 8th 20, 03:55 PM
On Monday, April 6, 2020 at 7:12:37 PM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>
> I just set a calendar reminder to check in with you on this on 20 January 2021, one year after the first US case was reported. Right now the C19 death toll stands at about 1/4 of a typical year for flu, but its growth rate in many areas is exponential and we're less than a quarter of the way through the year.
>
> --Bob K.
To get accurate and comparable numbers you will have to wait until the COVID-19 has fully spread throughout the world. The flu and all the other causes of death that pop up on social media to compare against CV19 have been established for many years. First quarter next year is way too early for that comparison. Your guess is as good as mine to when CV has fully spread to all parts of the world.
Craig
Bob Kuykendall
April 9th 20, 01:23 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>...Yearly flu has a higher body count. Current king of death, obesity, can't even be bothered to acknowledge the lightweight pretend contender...
Quick update: Covid-19 is now the leading cause of death in the US.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1712761/?fbclid=IwAR0Gxe7cCsoW_r116KV7IVYU2M2ZaY75gIW0vFTR 5dl5HnPXngr5AjqRAPs
--Bob K.
Boy I have a different viewpoint.
And sometimes I have to kick it back towards the center court line...
Most daily deaths?
https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state
In 2018, we were killing, by average, 3670 people DAILY in car wrecks in the US. I can't imagine we've cut that in half, but with the StayAtHome mandates, it likely has dropped this month.
That's a few more deaths than the ILLNESS chart which was touted.
And with the scrutiny of covid-19 infection confirmation and mortality reporting, no one cares/reports about counting car wrecks or shootings this month.
I imagine the flu rates have dropped, due to SAH. If we got around the single topic focus, which I view as our more serious disease, we would perhaps find that ALL transmittable illness is down this month.
I agree that SAH will flatten a Covid-19 transmission curve.
I agree that personal filters of any sort, on any percentage of folks, will lessen transmission of lots of things (TB anyone?). All transmissions will drop with social distancing, and hygenic improvements. Duh.
But I have a heel digging response to the guvmint telling the entire US population what to do. The sheeple response scares me. But I have been worried about our 'social training' since the 3 week stand down of civil aviation in 2001, and subsequent creation of DHS and TSA.
I have large worries about 6-7-8 million Americans going on unemployment from a government hugely upside down in cash flow. Never mind that my job evaporated, too.
I prefer to be told what the risks are, and be left to make my choices. I can drive sober, in good weather, at moderate speeds, no distractions, and will accept the risk of someone careening drunk across the median at me.
I don't see a huge difference in my exposure to TB, flu, covid, sars, avian Newcastle being worth crushing the world's economy.
Should this health issue cause us to rethink transportation? Communication? National manufacturing and local sustainability of food supply? Priorities?
Yes.
Am I an isolationist? Raving nationalist? Hopefully not in the negative connotation. Naive? Maybe, still a bit.
Hopeful that we'll return to 'normalcy' & soaring? You damn betcha.
But I've started my garden, just in case I'm not soaring in June.
Cindy
For all the folks obsessed with body counts.
https://babylonbee.com/news/breaking-3000-new-deaths-today-but-thats-enough-about-abortion
Duster[_2_]
April 9th 20, 05:23 AM
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:00:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Most daily deaths?
> https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state
>
> In 2018, we were killing, by average, 3670 people DAILY in car wrecks in the US. I can't imagine we've cut that in half, but with the StayAtHome mandates, it likely has dropped this month.
> Cindy
Cindy, You'll be somewhat relieved that the number of auto deaths are not 3670/day (that would equal 1.3M/yr), but by your chart are 100/day for 2018. Wear your mask, but note that your eyes are a major source of viral entry. If someone sneezes near you, close your eyes for a few seconds.
And for yesterday alone the USA had 1940 coronavirus deaths recorded.
MNLou
April 9th 20, 03:37 PM
Interesting tidbit from MN -
Auto fatalities are actually up. 1/2 of these are high speed accidents. Apparently, drivers can't resist driving faster on empty roads.
Lou
My bad division. Late night math not my forte.
Thanks.
At least I have only one eyeball for viral admission. And glasses, when upright and outside in the world....
Hope someone gets a chuckle out of this,
Cindy
Germans saying .3 death rate.
https://www.bccourier.com/these-are-the-first-lessons-of-the-heinsberg-study/
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 12:52:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Germans saying .3 death rate.
> https://www.bccourier.com/these-are-the-first-lessons-of-the-heinsberg-study/
it is not like there is a single number for the death rate. With adequately staffed and equipped health care available, the death rate will be lower. overwhelm the health care system and people die at home or in a tent somewhere, with much higher numbers. healthy and young, much lower, old an frail, much higher. Being "officially old" as my Dr said at my last physical, I will distance until some good mitigating therapy, or vaccine is available. That said, I was a happy camper this week, socially distancing with 8-10,000 ft between me and vast majority of the populace.
for all the advantages of a sell launching glider, I did not consider flying during the zombie apocalypse as one of them...
Rick
Bob Kuykendall
April 9th 20, 07:43 PM
On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:06:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> For all the folks obsessed with body counts...
That's the logical fallacy commonly referred to as "moving the goalposts."
--Bob K.
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 2:43:44 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:06:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > For all the folks obsessed with body counts...
>
> That's the logical fallacy commonly referred to as "moving the goalposts."
>
> --Bob K.
Perspective has value. Body counts are why we can't fly.
Is the goal to save lives? Or just a handful of lives, of the people who made it past the threat of salad tongs over 6 decades ago?
Duster[_2_]
April 9th 20, 08:15 PM
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 11:08:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> My bad division. Late night math not my forte.
> Thanks.
> At least I have only one eyeball for viral admission. And glasses, when upright and outside in the world....
> Hope someone gets a chuckle out of this,
> Cindy
Oooops, my apology. Can someone help me get my foot out of my mouth?
Don Johnstone[_4_]
April 9th 20, 09:10 PM
At 18:59 09 April 2020, wrote:
>Perspective has value. Body counts are why we can't fly.
>Is the goal to save lives? Or just a handful of lives, of the people who
>made it past the threat of salad tongs over 6 decades ago?
>
1. It is true that the fewer people who get the disease the fewer people
will die from it.
2. It is also true that if the hospitals fill up with seriously ill
Coronavirus
patients then other seriously ill people will not be able to get treatment,
and die when they might otherwise not.
The thrust here is to prevent number 2 happening. The lockdown
ensures that number 1 will also be positively effected. Without the
lockdown we have had our hospitals would have been overloaded
already, of that there is little doubt. This is NOT the flu, it is far more
serious both in it's ability to make more people seriously ill and it would
appear in it's ability to spread.
So in answer to you question, no, it is not to save a handful of lives it
is
to protect the whole of society but especially the vulnerable. It is clear
that some people don't care and are selfishly continuing as though
nothing has happened and thereby putting the lives of others in danger.
They are also putting their own lives in danger but that's Darwinism.
Dan Marotta
April 9th 20, 09:12 PM
+1
On 4/8/2020 10:00 PM, wrote:
> Boy I have a different viewpoint.
> And sometimes I have to kick it back towards the center court line...
>
> Most daily deaths?
> https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state
>
> In 2018, we were killing, by average, 3670 people DAILY in car wrecks in the US. I can't imagine we've cut that in half, but with the StayAtHome mandates, it likely has dropped this month.
>
> That's a few more deaths than the ILLNESS chart which was touted.
> And with the scrutiny of covid-19 infection confirmation and mortality reporting, no one cares/reports about counting car wrecks or shootings this month.
>
>
> I imagine the flu rates have dropped, due to SAH. If we got around the single topic focus, which I view as our more serious disease, we would perhaps find that ALL transmittable illness is down this month.
>
> I agree that SAH will flatten a Covid-19 transmission curve.
> I agree that personal filters of any sort, on any percentage of folks, will lessen transmission of lots of things (TB anyone?). All transmissions will drop with social distancing, and hygenic improvements. Duh.
>
> But I have a heel digging response to the guvmint telling the entire US population what to do. The sheeple response scares me. But I have been worried about our 'social training' since the 3 week stand down of civil aviation in 2001, and subsequent creation of DHS and TSA.
>
> I have large worries about 6-7-8 million Americans going on unemployment from a government hugely upside down in cash flow. Never mind that my job evaporated, too.
>
> I prefer to be told what the risks are, and be left to make my choices. I can drive sober, in good weather, at moderate speeds, no distractions, and will accept the risk of someone careening drunk across the median at me.
>
> I don't see a huge difference in my exposure to TB, flu, covid, sars, avian Newcastle being worth crushing the world's economy.
>
> Should this health issue cause us to rethink transportation? Communication? National manufacturing and local sustainability of food supply? Priorities?
>
> Yes.
>
> Am I an isolationist? Raving nationalist? Hopefully not in the negative connotation. Naive? Maybe, still a bit.
> Hopeful that we'll return to 'normalcy' & soaring? You damn betcha.
>
> But I've started my garden, just in case I'm not soaring in June.
>
> Cindy
>
--
Dan, 5J
Dan Marotta
April 9th 20, 09:20 PM
Oops, the German study said "0,37 percent",* in US speak, that's 0.37%
or 0.0037.
On 4/9/2020 10:52 AM, wrote:
> Germans saying .3 death rate.
> https://www.bccourier.com/these-are-the-first-lessons-of-the-heinsberg-study/
--
Dan, 5J
Duster[_2_]
April 9th 20, 10:10 PM
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oops, the German study said "0,37 percent",* in US speak, that's 0.37%
> or 0.0037.
> Dan, 5J
Dan; You're smarter than you think. 0.3 percent is indeed 0.37%, .0037 is the multiple.
However, most readers have misinterpreted the half-completed study in Germany. The interim results use both the "swab test" which reveals those presently infected plus the "serological blood test" which reveals those that had been infected but were mostly asymptomatic. Not surprising, those that were no longer testing positive were 7 times more prevalent than those confirmed to be currently infected. So, the "0.37%" figure uses the combined number and does not represent the % lethality of those infected. Another misquote by the OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure. They currently have a bit less than 2% lethality. It is expected that when the serologic testing is complete world-wide, the infection rate for this virus will be very impressive, and the lethality measured using both IGG and PCR tests will go lower. Don't interpret that to mean the virus is less lethal, it means many more of us caught it than suffered with it.
How dare you try to take away my fear/sarcasm
Duster[_2_]
April 9th 20, 10:21 PM
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oops, the German study said "0,37 percent", in US speak, that's 0.37%
> or 0.0037.
> Dan, 5J
Dan; You're smarter than you think. 0.37 percent is indeed 0.37%, .0037 is the multiple.
However, most readers have misinterpreted the half-completed study in Germany. The interim results use both the "swab test" which reveals those presently infected plus the "serological blood test" which reveals those that had been infected but were mostly asymptomatic. Not surprising, those that were no longer testing positive were 7 times more prevalent than those confirmed to be currently infected. So, the "0.37%" figure uses the combined number and does not represent the % lethality of those infected. Another misquote by the OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure. They currently have a around a 2% lethality. It is expected that when the serologic testing is complete world-wide, the infection rate for this virus will be quite impressive, and the "lethality" measured using both IGG and PCR tests will go lower. Don't interpret that to mean the virus is less lethal, it means many more of us caught it than suffered with it.
Bob Youngblood
April 9th 20, 10:31 PM
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 5:21:35 PM UTC-4, Duster wrote:
> On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Oops, the German study said "0,37 percent", in US speak, that's 0.37%
> > or 0.0037.
> > Dan, 5J
>
> Dan; You're smarter than you think. 0.37 percent is indeed 0.37%, .0037 is the multiple.
> However, most readers have misinterpreted the half-completed study in Germany. The interim results use both the "swab test" which reveals those presently infected plus the "serological blood test" which reveals those that had been infected but were mostly asymptomatic. Not surprising, those that were no longer testing positive were 7 times more prevalent than those confirmed to be currently infected. So, the "0.37%" figure uses the combined number and does not represent the % lethality of those infected. Another misquote by the OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure. They currently have a around a 2% lethality. It is expected that when the serologic testing is complete world-wide, the infection rate for this virus will be quite impressive, and the "lethality" measured using both IGG and PCR tests will go lower. Don't interpret that to mean the virus is less lethal, it means many more of us caught it than suffered with it.
Most of you people are missing the boat. When someone dies that test positive of COVD19 it is declared as a virus death. It may well be because of another related problem. Not saying that this is not serious, but underlying circumstance play an important role. Bob
How dare they
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/the_cdc_confesses_to_lying_about_covid19_death_num bers.html
Dan Marotta
April 10th 20, 12:22 AM
Yeah, I figured it was something like that.
My take is that none of these "rates" are relevant until the dust
settles.* How can anyone quote a death rate when the rate of infection
information is at best a couple of weeks behind and at worst totally
unknown?
But it's giving a lot of reporters and politicians to talk about...
On 4/9/2020 3:10 PM, Duster wrote:
> On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Oops, the German study said "0,37 percent",* in US speak, that's 0.37%
>> or 0.0037.
>> Dan, 5J
> Dan; You're smarter than you think. 0.3 percent is indeed 0.37%, .0037 is the multiple.
> However, most readers have misinterpreted the half-completed study in Germany. The interim results use both the "swab test" which reveals those presently infected plus the "serological blood test" which reveals those that had been infected but were mostly asymptomatic. Not surprising, those that were no longer testing positive were 7 times more prevalent than those confirmed to be currently infected. So, the "0.37%" figure uses the combined number and does not represent the % lethality of those infected. Another misquote by the OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure. They currently have a bit less than 2% lethality. It is expected that when the serologic testing is complete world-wide, the infection rate for this virus will be very impressive, and the lethality measured using both IGG and PCR tests will go lower. Don't interpret that to mean the virus is less lethal, it means many more of us caught it than suffered with it.
--
Dan, 5J
Dan Marotta
April 10th 20, 12:24 AM
SOMETHING to talk about...
On 4/9/2020 5:22 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> But it's giving a lot of reporters and politicians to talk about...
--
Dan, 5J
Bob Youngblood
April 10th 20, 08:31 AM
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 7:24:11 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> SOMETHING to talk about...
>
> On 4/9/2020 5:22 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > But it's giving a lot of reporters and politicians to talk about...
>
> --
> Dan, 5J
Dan, the reporters and politicians can really put the spin on things. I tried watching the news yesterday after applying 3000 pounds of fertilizer to the strip here at the house and tending to the mango orchard. I needed a break, grabbed a cold beer and did something that caused me considerable discomfort, I watched 20 minutes of the following, CNN, MSNBC,and Fox News.
I have come to the conclusion that we live in three different worlds.
After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000 lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
Bob Youngblood
April 10th 20, 12:57 PM
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000 lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
Yep, I was called the other day by one of the glass gods here on RAS and he said to me that I was narrow minded. Now don't get me wrong, this is a good guy but a bit confused. I told him that I would look at many different formats of communication and media and see if there was any chance that I had become intolerant of flaming liberals. It only took me a few seconds of watching Don Lemmon and Rachel Maddow to realize that I was going to call Direct TV and see if I could have them blocked. Bob
John Foster
April 10th 20, 06:03 PM
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:57:24 AM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000 lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
>
> Yep, I was called the other day by one of the glass gods here on RAS and he said to me that I was narrow minded. Now don't get me wrong, this is a good guy but a bit confused. I told him that I would look at many different formats of communication and media and see if there was any chance that I had become intolerant of flaming liberals. It only took me a few seconds of watching Don Lemmon and Rachel Maddow to realize that I was going to call Direct TV and see if I could have them blocked. Bob
I am becoming more and more convinced that the real "enemy of the people" is not one political party or another, but the Mainstream Media. There have been many recent examples of them deliberately deceiving the public to forward their narrative. 95% or more of the major news outlets are now owned by just 6 individuals, who are all "globalists" in their ideology.
joesimmers[_2_]
April 10th 20, 07:55 PM
>>>> I am becoming more and more convinced that the real "enemy of the people" is not one political party or another, but the Mainstream Media. There have been many recent examples of them deliberately deceiving the public to forward their narrative. 95% or more of the major news outlets are now owned by just 6 individuals, who are all "globalists" in their ideology.>>>>>>>
Yes this exactly!!!!!!!
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 10th 20, 08:12 PM
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:03:04 -0700, John Foster wrote:
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:57:24 AM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
>> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-4,
>> wrote:
>> > After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go
>> > and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000
>> > lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
>>
>> Yep, I was called the other day by one of the glass gods here on RAS
>> and he said to me that I was narrow minded. Now don't get me wrong,
>> this is a good guy but a bit confused. I told him that I would look at
>> many different formats of communication and media and see if there was
>> any chance that I had become intolerant of flaming liberals. It only
>> took me a few seconds of watching Don Lemmon and Rachel Maddow to
>> realize that I was going to call Direct TV and see if I could have them
>> blocked. Bob
>
> I am becoming more and more convinced that the real "enemy of the
> people" is not one political party or another, but the Mainstream Media.
> There have been many recent examples of them deliberately deceiving the
> public to forward their narrative. 95% or more of the major news
> outlets are now owned by just 6 individuals, who are all "globalists" in
> their ideology.
>
Is that 6 owners just for the USA or globally? Its hard to tell from
where I sit because the palsied hand of Murdoch seems to have a global
grasp. In any case I thought that there tended to be laws about news
monopolies. What happened to them?
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
John Foster
April 10th 20, 10:57 PM
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 1:12:11 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:03:04 -0700, John Foster wrote:
>
> > On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:57:24 AM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> >> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-4,
> >> wrote:
> >> > After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go
> >> > and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000
> >> > lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
> >>
> >> Yep, I was called the other day by one of the glass gods here on RAS
> >> and he said to me that I was narrow minded. Now don't get me wrong,
> >> this is a good guy but a bit confused. I told him that I would look at
> >> many different formats of communication and media and see if there was
> >> any chance that I had become intolerant of flaming liberals. It only
> >> took me a few seconds of watching Don Lemmon and Rachel Maddow to
> >> realize that I was going to call Direct TV and see if I could have them
> >> blocked. Bob
> >
> > I am becoming more and more convinced that the real "enemy of the
> > people" is not one political party or another, but the Mainstream Media..
> > There have been many recent examples of them deliberately deceiving the
> > public to forward their narrative. 95% or more of the major news
> > outlets are now owned by just 6 individuals, who are all "globalists" in
> > their ideology.
> >
> Is that 6 owners just for the USA or globally? Its hard to tell from
> where I sit because the palsied hand of Murdoch seems to have a global
> grasp. In any case I thought that there tended to be laws about news
> monopolies. What happened to them?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
As I understand it, it is globally. I could be wrong though.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 10th 20, 11:58 PM
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:57:57 -0700, John Foster wrote:
> As I understand it, it is globally. I could be wrong though.
>
More likely you're right: the Murdoch clan owns more papers and TV in
more countries than seems right if news sources are to do more than
pretending to cover the whole political spectrum and keep each other
relatively truthful.
Fortunately we still have the BBC and the Independent as counterbalance
and the likes of New Scientist to cover science, which the other papers
more or less ignore.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Ventus_a
April 11th 20, 02:23 AM
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:57:24 AM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-4, wrote:
After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000 lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
Yep, I was called the other day by one of the glass gods here on RAS and he said to me that I was narrow minded. Now don't get me wrong, this is a good guy but a bit confused. I told him that I would look at many different formats of communication and media and see if there was any chance that I had become intolerant of flaming liberals. It only took me a few seconds of watching Don Lemmon and Rachel Maddow to realize that I was going to call Direct TV and see if I could have them blocked. Bob
I am becoming more and more convinced that the real "enemy of the people" is not one political party or another, but the Mainstream Media. There have been many recent examples of them deliberately deceiving the public to forward their narrative. 95% or more of the major news outlets are now owned by just 6 individuals, who are all "globalists" in their ideology.
+1
A lot of the 'news' we see these days is skewed to the point that it's opinion rather than just a reporting of news/information.
Paul B[_2_]
April 11th 20, 11:04 AM
>OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure.
He is perfectly correct based on the study quoted. In the study they have included all people that were infected now and in the past. The mortality is precisely that. The number of people dying over the total number of infections.
>They currently have a bit less than 2% lethality.
No they do not. The 2% is simply the number of deaths over the number of infections that they know off.
The German study is the first one that I know that tries to look at the number of total infections in broader society to calculate the actual mortality rate.
Cheers
Paul
On Friday, 10 April 2020 09:22:55 UTC+10, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Yeah, I figured it was something like that.
>
> My take is that none of these "rates" are relevant until the dust
> settles.* How can anyone quote a death rate when the rate of infection
> information is at best a couple of weeks behind and at worst totally
> unknown?
>
> But it's giving a lot of reporters and politicians to talk about...
>
> On 4/9/2020 3:10 PM, Duster wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 3:20:08 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> Oops, the German study said "0,37 percent",* in US speak, that's 0.37%
> >> or 0.0037.
> >> Dan, 5J
> > Dan; You're smarter than you think. 0.3 percent is indeed 0.37%, .0037 is the multiple.
> > However, most readers have misinterpreted the half-completed study in Germany. The interim results use both the "swab test" which reveals those presently infected plus the "serological blood test" which reveals those that had been infected but were mostly asymptomatic. Not surprising, those that were no longer testing positive were 7 times more prevalent than those confirmed to be currently infected. So, the "0.37%" figure uses the combined number and does not represent the % lethality of those infected. Another misquote by the OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure. They currently have a bit less than 2% lethality. It is expected that when the serologic testing is complete world-wide, the infection rate for this virus will be very impressive, and the lethality measured using both IGG and PCR tests will go lower. Don't interpret that to mean the virus is less lethal, it means many more of us caught it than suffered with it.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 11:04:45 AM UTC+1, Paul B wrote:
> >OP was that Germany has a 0.3% lethality figure.
>
> He is perfectly correct based on the study quoted. In the study they have included all people that were infected now and in the past. The mortality is precisely that. The number of people dying over the total number of infections.
>
>
>
> >They currently have a bit less than 2% lethality.
> No they do not. The 2% is simply the number of deaths over the number of infections that they know off.
>
> The German study is the first one that I know that tries to look at the number of total infections in broader society to calculate the actual mortality rate.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
>
The validity rests on the the sensitivity and specificity of the antibody tests and so far according to UK testing none of those available so far are good enough. If the Germans have really accurate tests I hope they let us know in the UK.
Shaun Wheeler
April 11th 20, 04:09 PM
Haven't seen this much hysteria since the 2016 election was over.
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 12:00:24 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> In 2018, we were killing, by average, 3670 people DAILY in car wrecks in the US. I can't imagine we've cut that in half, but with the StayAtHome mandates, it likely has dropped this month.
Really? 3670 times 365 means we killed well over a million
people on the roads in 2018. You'd think I'd remember that.
Jim Beckman
Dirk_PW[_2_]
April 11th 20, 04:56 PM
More on inflated COVID-19 death rate...
https://youtu.be/9qPUy1qJXys
I love this thread because it reminds me we still have 1st amendment rights (for the time being anyway). Funny how some just don't get it, and they want to take it away from you instead of exercising their right to click the 'back arrow' on the top of their browser.
Shaun Wheeler
April 11th 20, 05:40 PM
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 10:56:09 AM UTC-5, Dirk_PW wrote:
> More on inflated COVID-19 death rate...
>
> https://youtu.be/9qPUy1qJXys
>
> I love this thread because it reminds me we still have 1st amendment rights (for the time being anyway). Funny how some just don't get it, and they want to take it away from you instead of exercising their right to click the 'back arrow' on the top of their browser.
Only in the US, Dirk.
Some countries actually have thought police who can arrest you if you refuse to use certain words like "They/them" or if you refuse to participate in some right minded forward thinkers fantasy.
We're still protected in the US but countries like the UK, Belgium or France, speech isn't protected. They'll put you in jail for saying stuff that upsets empowerment groups.
Shaun Wheeler
April 11th 20, 05:55 PM
On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 2:12:11 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:03:04 -0700, John Foster wrote:
>
> > On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 5:57:24 AM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> >> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 AM UTC-4,
> >> wrote:
> >> > After spreading your 3000 lbs of fertilizer outside, why did you go
> >> > and turn on cnn, they just filled up your house with more than 3000
> >> > lbs of “manure” in less than an hour.
> >>
> >> Yep, I was called the other day by one of the glass gods here on RAS
> >> and he said to me that I was narrow minded. Now don't get me wrong,
> >> this is a good guy but a bit confused. I told him that I would look at
> >> many different formats of communication and media and see if there was
> >> any chance that I had become intolerant of flaming liberals. It only
> >> took me a few seconds of watching Don Lemmon and Rachel Maddow to
> >> realize that I was going to call Direct TV and see if I could have them
> >> blocked. Bob
> >
> > I am becoming more and more convinced that the real "enemy of the
> > people" is not one political party or another, but the Mainstream Media..
> > There have been many recent examples of them deliberately deceiving the
> > public to forward their narrative. 95% or more of the major news
> > outlets are now owned by just 6 individuals, who are all "globalists" in
> > their ideology.
> >
> Is that 6 owners just for the USA or globally? Its hard to tell from
> where I sit because the palsied hand of Murdoch seems to have a global
> grasp. In any case I thought that there tended to be laws about news
> monopolies. What happened to them?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
They only apply to conservative news outlets.
Nobody could possibly mistake the turn Murdoch enterprises took when they started selling out to Disney.
Bob Youngblood
April 11th 20, 06:01 PM
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 11:09:29 AM UTC-4, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> Haven't seen this much hysteria since the 2016 election was over.
Shaun, you must not be seeing any news, remember the Russian conspiracy that the whack's dreamed up. Bob
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 5:40:23 PM UTC+1, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> Only in the US, Dirk.
>
> Some countries actually have thought police who can arrest you if you refuse to use certain words like "They/them" or if you refuse to participate in some right minded forward thinkers fantasy.
>
> We're still protected in the US but countries like the UK, Belgium or France, speech isn't protected. They'll put you in jail for saying stuff that upsets empowerment groups.
What utter nonsense.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 11th 20, 07:37 PM
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:55:15 -0700, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> They only apply to conservative news outlets.
>
> Nobody could possibly mistake the turn Murdoch enterprises took when
> they started selling out to Disney.
>
...but Redtops have always been like that, regardless of who owned them.
The only tabloid worth reading was the much-missed "Sunday Sport".
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Dan Daly[_2_]
April 11th 20, 07:57 PM
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 2:37:27 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:55:15 -0700, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
>
> > They only apply to conservative news outlets.
> >
> > Nobody could possibly mistake the turn Murdoch enterprises took when
> > they started selling out to Disney.
> >
> ..but Redtops have always been like that, regardless of who owned them.
>
> The only tabloid worth reading was the much-missed "Sunday Sport".
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Is that similar to "The Scottish Sporting News"? I picked up a copy of that on a detachment to Kinloss to educate myself on how the local football teams were doing... not much sports in it, turns out.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 11th 20, 08:10 PM
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 18:37:25 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> The only tabloid worth reading was the much-missed "Sunday Sport".
Apologies to non-UK readers for not explaining that the "Sunday Sport"
was 100% tongue-in cheek BS from first to last page.
Among many 'interesting' stories and racy photos I remember seeing a long
running set of stories about a B-29, that went missing during the Pacific
War, being found in a Lunar crater (with a picture, so it had to be
true). Follow-up stories covered a secret NASA mission to rescue the crew
using a Shuttle. The final story in that series described how the Shuttle
had towed the B-29 back to a landing at a secret USAF base (Groom lake?),
with a picture of B-29 and Shuttle in Earth orbit (so the rescue must
have been true too)!
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Bob Youngblood
April 11th 20, 08:11 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
It even gets better, DIFI wants to give Iran 5 Billion to fight COVID-19, why don't they get it from the Chinese, didn't they start this whole mess.
Speaking of china I can’t wait till Trump sends them the bill for OUR expense involving this viral mess thats completely their fault.
Dan
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 11th 20, 09:01 PM
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:57:52 -0700, Dan Daly wrote:
> Is that similar to "The Scottish Sporting News"? I picked up a copy of
> that on a detachment to Kinloss to educate myself on how the local
> football teams were doing... not much sports in it, turns out.
>
I don't know - I've never seen "The Scottish Sporting News"
The "Sunday Sport", as I explained elsewere was pure spoot with a healthy
dollop of soft pron thrown in.
I remember it from the mid-70s when it had a short run on the news
stands. In 76/77 when I was working in NYC I brought a copy back after my
Xmas break in the UK to show to my work colleagues. It somewhat startled
the people I thought of as hard-boiled NewYorkers. It had died by 1979.
However, it seems to have been born again as a subscription online weekly
and is currently available online.
Wikipedia has a page about it, claiming that it was founded in 1986, but
it page's author seems to have never known of its former existence as ink
on newsprint.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 3:51:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Speaking of china I can’t wait till Trump sends them the bill for OUR expense involving this viral mess thats completely their fault.
> Dan
Right after he sends Mexico the bill for building
the wall.
Jim Beckman
Don Johnstone[_4_]
April 11th 20, 10:00 PM
At 15:56 11 April 2020, Dirk_PW wrote:
>More on inflated COVID-19 death rate...
>
>https://youtu.be/9qPUy1qJXys
>
>I love this thread because it reminds me we still have 1st amendment
>rights=
> (for the time being anyway). Funny how some just don't get it, and
they
>w=
>ant to take it away from you instead of exercising their right to click
>the=
> 'back arrow' on the top of their browser.
Your 1st Amendment right could end up killing you, or someone you
love, if the 2nd Amendment right does not get you first.
Sometimes it is wise to do what you are told.
Craig Funston[_3_]
April 11th 20, 10:15 PM
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 1:35:17 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 3:51:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Speaking of china I can’t wait till Trump sends them the bill for OUR expense involving this viral mess thats completely their fault.
> > Dan
>
> Right after he sends Mexico the bill for building
> the wall.
>
> Jim Beckman
Never thought I'd miss Lennie, but here we are.
Right after he sends Mexico the bill for building
the wall.
He already did when he renegotiated that travesty called nafta. And gee a wall does not sound like too bad of an idea now does it? So much for the libtard concept of open borders.
Tell that to the millions in chinese and russian goulags.
Bob Youngblood
April 11th 20, 10:43 PM
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 2:57:54 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 2:37:27 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:55:15 -0700, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> >
> > > They only apply to conservative news outlets.
> > >
> > > Nobody could possibly mistake the turn Murdoch enterprises took when
> > > they started selling out to Disney.
> > >
> > ..but Redtops have always been like that, regardless of who owned them.
> >
> > The only tabloid worth reading was the much-missed "Sunday Sport".
> >
> >
> > --
> > Martin | martin at
> > Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>
> Is that similar to "The Scottish Sporting News"? I picked up a copy of that on a detachment to Kinloss to educate myself on how the local football teams were doing... not much sports in it, turns out.
Scottish Sporting News, That is like kissing your sister, you could do better or you could do worse.
Branko Stojkovic
April 12th 20, 12:09 AM
Hi everyone,
Here is what I learned from all this.
When the going gets tough, people generally fall into two camps. No, not the lefties and righties camps. They fall into "how can I help the others" camp and "what's in it for me" camp.
Stay safe in the air and on the ground.
Branko
XYU
Shaun Wheeler
April 12th 20, 12:55 AM
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 12:02:02 PM UTC-5, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 11:09:29 AM UTC-4, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> > Haven't seen this much hysteria since the 2016 election was over.
>
> Shaun, you must not be seeing any news, remember the Russian conspiracy that the whack's dreamed up. Bob
I already miss the days when 5G held the top spot.
The evening body counts though, that's a nice touch. Reminded me very much of 1968-1972. About the only thing that would make my flashback complete would be a CGI animation of Harry Reasoner and Walter Cronkite delivering it.
((sigh))
Oh well. I'll burn some incense, put on some "Country Joe and the Fish" and invite the neighbors kids to come burn a couple blunts while I fire up my old blacklight.
Dont forget the hippy beads and the lava lamp
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
April 12th 20, 04:52 AM
wrote on 4/11/2020 12:51 PM:
> Speaking of china I can’t wait till Trump sends them the bill for OUR expense involving this viral mess thats completely their fault.
> Dan
We were warned repeatedly over the last 15-20 years that a pandemic was coming.
Trump and his administration were warned several times by different people, even
before he was inaugurated, including by government departments. Trump et al
ignored the warnings, even disbanding the pandemic group in 2018. He was slow to
react to the warnings and events over the last few months, giving us "happy talk"
instead of facts ("I want to be a cheerleader").
I want a government that can protect us from foreign attacks or mistakes, instead
of one that blames others and won't accept any responsibility for the outcomes.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
April 12th 20, 04:53 AM
wrote on 4/11/2020 8:30 AM:
> On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 12:00:24 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>
>> In 2018, we were killing, by average, 3670 people DAILY in car wrecks in the US. I can't imagine we've cut that in half, but with the StayAtHome mandates, it likely has dropped this month.
>
> Really? 3670 times 365 means we killed well over a million
> people on the roads in 2018. You'd think I'd remember that.
>
> Jim Beckman
Indeed. The yearly count is around 35,000/year, or about 100/day.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
On Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 11:52:22 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> wrote on 4/11/2020 12:51 PM:
> > Speaking of china I can’t wait till Trump sends them the bill for OUR expense involving this viral mess thats completely their fault.
> > Dan
>
> We were warned repeatedly over the last 15-20 years that a pandemic was coming.
> Trump and his administration were warned several times by different people, even
> before he was inaugurated, including by government departments. Trump et al
> ignored the warnings, even disbanding the pandemic group in 2018. He was slow to
> react to the warnings and events over the last few months, giving us "happy talk"
> instead of facts ("I want to be a cheerleader").
>
> I want a government that can protect us from foreign attacks or mistakes, instead
> of one that blames others and won't accept any responsibility for the outcomes.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
The same journowhores that criticized Trump for shutting down travel from China. Now say he didn't do enough. No one with any sense cares what they say. Have some more moonbat soup.
MNLou
April 12th 20, 02:54 PM
Surely there has to be a political Google Group where this discussion is more appropriate.
Lou
Shaun Wheeler
April 12th 20, 03:28 PM
On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 8:54:52 AM UTC-5, MNLou wrote:
> Surely there has to be a political Google Group where this discussion is more appropriate.
>
> Lou
Ignore politics long enough and the only flying you'll be doing is with paper airplanes.
Dan Marotta
April 12th 20, 04:01 PM
To lighten the spirit a little, here's a song on the subject:
https://youtu.be/I3xpRZITi2w
On 4/12/2020 8:28 AM, Shaun Wheeler wrote:
> On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 8:54:52 AM UTC-5, MNLou wrote:
>> Surely there has to be a political Google Group where this discussion is more appropriate.
>>
>> Lou
> Ignore politics long enough and the only flying you'll be doing is with paper airplanes.
>
--
Dan, 5J
Dan, Great song......brought a smile to my face! Thanks!
Rich
>>We were warned repeatedly over the last 15-20 years that a pandemic was coming.
Sure, but there was also a warning in all the years since 1918 or maybe since the plague. But given the high false alarm rate for a will certainly happen eventually warning, what made any specific warning to any specific administration stand out?
Except of course with the advantage of hindsight after it happened.
On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 9:08:04 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> My bad division. Late night math not my forte.
> Thanks.
> At least I have only one eyeball for viral admission. And glasses, when upright and outside in the world....
> Hope someone gets a chuckle out of this,
> Cindy
Cindy, please contact me when you get a chance.
Thanks, Jim Lee
Turkey Vulture
April 13th 20, 01:20 PM
Bob, after reading many of your posts and threads, you sound like a member of the most privileged class of Americans of all time: A white, male, babyboomer.
Am I wrong?
Bob Youngblood
April 13th 20, 04:16 PM
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 8:20:56 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
> Bob, after reading many of your posts and threads, you sound like a member of the most privileged class of Americans of all time: A white, male, babyboomer.
>
> Am I wrong?
No, on the front end of the Boomer era started in 1946 through 1964 I do believe, paid for my own education, retired, more of a libertarian than anything else, grey means nothing to me, only see things in black and white. You are incorrect about the privileged class, us in this category were children of the greatest society, hard working parents who changed the course of history by defending freedom throughout the world. They handed their work ethics down to their children. It worked for me and I handed the same ethics down to my child, it worked.
Now we probably don't have much in common except we have enjoyed a great time of flying sailplanes. I hope that you are as generous as me and give something back to the sport, I have! Bob
Dan Marotta
April 13th 20, 05:39 PM
Hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa....* What about:
Studied in school
Paid for own education
Worked long and hard
Never took a handout
Never defaulted on a loan
Saved and invested wisely
Made choices, favoring less expensive things with the goal of having
expensive toys
Enjoying the fruits of the above.
Huh?* What about that?* Why would you make such a silly comment
attacking a man's race, gender, and year of birth?
On 4/13/2020 6:20 AM, Turkey Vulture wrote:
> the most privileged class of Americans of all time: A white, male, babyboomer.
--
Dan, 5J
Branko Stojkovic
April 13th 20, 06:44 PM
A view from your friendly neighbors to the North about wherein lies your problem.
There are two things that most of you Americans have in common, both Republicans and Democrats:
1. You make a lot of good and valid points, which is a very good thing.
2. You hardly ever concede a point made by the guy on the other side of the argument, which is a very bad thing.
In other words, there is too much number two being flung around.
Stay safe!
Branko XYU
Who is Bob Youngblood? And why is he stirring up trouble in the wrong forum in an already troubled time?
Bob Youngblood
April 13th 20, 07:32 PM
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 2:10:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Who is Bob Youngblood? And why is he stirring up trouble in the wrong forum in an already troubled time?
That would be me, just a bored old glider pilot! And You?
Economics question:
With near zero interest rates, does just in time stocking for things you are certain to eventually need make sense?
Bob Youngblood
April 15th 20, 11:45 PM
On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Economics question:
>
> With near zero interest rates, does just in time stocking for things you are certain to eventually need make sense?
JIT does not work when stockpiling or replenishing, it would have taken three years on normal production to get the stockpile back up to 2009 standard.
Paul B[_2_]
April 16th 20, 06:29 AM
On Monday, 13 April 2020 22:20:56 UTC+10, Turkey Vulture wrote:
> Bob, after reading many of your posts and threads, you sound like a member of the most privileged class of Americans of all time: A white, male, babyboomer.
>
> Am I wrong?
Well that does not take much of a deduction, does it turkey V?
You have pretty much described every glider pilot. (Apologies to the few that do not fit that profile.)
Cheers
Paul
Shaun Wheeler
April 18th 20, 01:35 AM
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 12:29:35 AM UTC-5, Paul B wrote:
> On Monday, 13 April 2020 22:20:56 UTC+10, Turkey Vulture wrote:
> > Bob, after reading many of your posts and threads, you sound like a member of the most privileged class of Americans of all time: A white, male, babyboomer.
> >
> > Am I wrong?
>
> Well that does not take much of a deduction, does it turkey V?
> You have pretty much described every glider pilot. (Apologies to the few that do not fit that profile.)
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
#WHITE_GUILT_FAIL
Bob Kuykendall
April 24th 20, 02:53 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>...Yearly flu has a higher body count. Current king of death, obesity, can't even be bothered to acknowledge the lightweight pretend contender...
Quick update: The US death toll from Covid-19 now stands at about 50,000, and that's in only about 2.5 months since the first US death reported. A bad influenza year might incur 60,000 deaths over 12 months.
--Bob K.
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 9:53:14 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> >...Yearly flu has a higher body count. Current king of death, obesity, can't even be bothered to acknowledge the lightweight pretend contender...
>
> Quick update: The US death toll from Covid-19 now stands at about 50,000, and that's in only about 2.5 months since the first US death reported. A bad influenza year might incur 60,000 deaths over 12 months.
>
> --Bob K.
And inexplicably there have been 50,000 less pneumonia deaths this year then usual.
Mark Morwood
April 24th 20, 04:56 AM
> And inexplicably there have been 50,000 less pneumonia deaths this year then usual.
Do you have a source for this? It seems a suspect number as there are usually fewer than 50,000 deaths per season in the US according to the CDC. A quick look at the CDC website shows their estimates of deaths (which do vary from year to year) are:
2014/15 - 51,000
2015/16 - 23,000
2016/17 - 38,000
2017/18 - 61,000
2018/19 - 34,157
2019/20 - 24,000 to 62,000 (still preliminary)
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
Jim Kellett
April 24th 20, 03:21 PM
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 9:53:14 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> Quick update: The US death toll from Covid-19 now stands at about 50,000, and that's in only about 2.5 months since the first US death reported. A bad influenza year might incur 60,000 deaths over 12 months.
A lot depends on how we look at these data. If you average out the deaths from all causes by the week, we find that for the last two weeks COVID-19 is right now THE leading cause of death in the US! So it's serious, and certainly far more contagious than cardiovascular disease, cancer, auto accidents, whatever . . .
Jim
> And inexplicably there have been 50,000 less pneumonia deaths this year then usual.
Granted, the statistics we have are low quality, and provide room for interpretation. But I don't think there's near enough room to say what happened in NYC looks much like a normal flu season.
I'm amazed that the President managed to find a new low yesterday with the comment about internal disinfectants. Given previous performances, that's a really impressive bar. He seems to instinctively know that the virus needs to be contained, but tragically, his actions seems almost in the reverse direction.
There is a wide range in how an infection presents from didn't notice to death.
The public health folks seem focused on containment. Another strategy might be to reduce the severity of the average case. A mix of these might give us a sustainable standoff we can live with till we have immunity or vaccine.
I wish we had a better understanding of how the virus interacts with the victim to make the range of symptom severities. Areas I'd like to understand better include:
1) What does immunity mean? If your immune system is alert and wise to the virus, then what happens when you get a new viral load? Does the still have to wake up and kill it?
2) Is an exposure event a binary yes or no, or rather a range of how many virus particles, where in your body, and over what time frame.
It's kind of a wild leap of faith to hope that exposure is a range with small exposures leading to mild cases and improved immunity. But if that were so, then leaving home while doing things to lower but not eliminate viral loads might get us back to life. Has anybody seen any science in this direction? Maybe a study of health case workers?
It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 5:48:21 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
> If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
So its a hoax but one for which the president is pondering the possibility of injections of disinfectant?
> It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
> If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
I don't see the hoax, but agree waiting on the govt to do something useful seems at best a matter of luck.
Sadly, that URL looked like it had links to data, but didn't seem to.
Looking up the CDC numbers for a typical flu season:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
(For a bad year multiply by 1.5)
Deaths 40k
Hospital 500k
Medical visit 15M
Symptoms 30m
Asymptomatic Not tracked
40k is 122/million US folks
New York has already had 20k deaths, which is 1063/million
Even with counting uncertainties, 1063 looks like a bigger problem than 122?
Mike C
April 25th 20, 12:27 AM
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 11:20:33 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> > It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
> > If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
>
> I don't see the hoax, but agree waiting on the govt to do something useful seems at best a matter of luck.
>
> Sadly, that URL looked like it had links to data, but didn't seem to.
>
> Looking up the CDC numbers for a typical flu season:
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
> (For a bad year multiply by 1.5)
>
> Deaths 40k
> Hospital 500k
> Medical visit 15M
> Symptoms 30m
> Asymptomatic Not tracked
>
> 40k is 122/million US folks
>
> New York has already had 20k deaths, which is 1063/million
>
> Even with counting uncertainties, 1063 looks like a bigger problem than 122?
The following seemed sort of strange if the medical doctor reporting was accurate.
A MD on TV was talking about having to label any death that involved Covid 19 as being THE cause of death. He thought it was absurd to do so. He stated that if a person died while having the flu, the cause of death was not reported, by him, as "Influenza" but as what actually killed the person, such as respiratory failure, cardiac arrest etc. So, if this is true, there is probably not going to be an accurate comparison between Influenza deaths and Covid 19 deaths. Seems though that underlining conditions should be reported in both cases.
Mike
Jonathan St. Cloud
April 25th 20, 12:47 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 3:07:17 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
I have learned to do a daily Lysol cleanse then stick an incandescent up my ass, to stay healthy.
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 1:13:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 5:48:21 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> > It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
> > If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
>
> So its a hoax but one for which the president is pondering the possibility of injections of disinfectant?
I haven't checked to see exactly what the President said. Don't care either because I do not take medical advice from Presidents. Not this one, the next one, nor any of the prior ones. And I'm certainly not taking medical advice from a billionaire computer guy. Or from gov't bureaucrats, the gov't health bureaucrats have a terrible track record and they are the 'credentialed professionals.'
PS add journalists to the do not take medical advice from list.
2G
April 25th 20, 02:14 AM
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 7:21:49 AM UTC-7, Jim Kellett wrote:
> On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 9:53:14 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>
> > Quick update: The US death toll from Covid-19 now stands at about 50,000, and that's in only about 2.5 months since the first US death reported. A bad influenza year might incur 60,000 deaths over 12 months.
>
> A lot depends on how we look at these data. If you average out the deaths from all causes by the week, we find that for the last two weeks COVID-19 is right now THE leading cause of death in the US! So it's serious, and certainly far more contagious than cardiovascular disease, cancer, auto accidents, whatever . . .
> Jim
No, COVID19 is NOT the leading cause of death - that would be heart disease (647,457 in 2017) followed closely by cancer. COVID19 would come in 10th, right behind nephrotic syndrome, at the current level. It will probably end up in eight place between flu and diabetes.
2G
April 25th 20, 02:16 AM
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 9:48:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
> If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
33% of public believes government is WITHHOLDING a COVID cure!
https://theweek.com/speedreads/910699/alarming-number-americans-believe-coronavirus-vaccine-exists-being-withheld
On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 9:16:59 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 9:48:21 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > It's a hoax people. https://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239066
> > If you are waiting for government permission to go back to living, good luck.
>
> 33% of public believes government is WITHHOLDING a COVID cure!
>
> https://theweek.com/speedreads/910699/alarming-number-americans-believe-coronavirus-vaccine-exists-being-withheld
Clever making people think you have the answer they think they need
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
April 25th 20, 04:55 PM
On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:47:58 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> I have learned to do a daily Lysol cleanse then stick an incandescent up
> my ass, to stay healthy.
>
There's an interesting piece in this week's New Scientist. It appears
that substantially more men than women are being admitted to hospital
with COVID-19 - male:female ratios are 2:1 in Wuhan, 7:3 in UK & Northern
Ireland and 62:38 in NYC. Apparently male:female death ratios show
similar proportions.
It also seems that the same male:female imbalance also applies to other
coronaviruses (SARS and MERS) and to viral pneumonia, though this
imbalance is not seen with other respiratory infections.
However, older men are generally in worse health than older women across
obesity, blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, lung and cardiovascular
disease. The NYC study showed that, when this factor is included, the
male:female susceptibility to COVID-19 vanishes.
There's also a suggestion than, as several critical immune genes are on
the X chromosome and that, as women have two X chromosomes against men's
single copy, they may have higher natural immunities.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Dan Marotta
April 25th 20, 05:28 PM
No, no, no, Jonathan.* It must be a UV light. :-D
On 4/24/2020 5:47 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> I have learned to do a daily Lysol cleanse then stick an incandescent up my ass, to stay healthy.
--
Dan, 5J
Rakel
April 26th 20, 01:45 AM
On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 12:28:24 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> No, no, no, Jonathan.* It must be a UV light. :-D
No, no, no, Dan
The real reason is that women have been cleaning and scrubbing with Lysol and bleach for years. We were just exposed to a lot of it. That is why we live longer.
Bob Youngblood
May 1st 20, 01:48 AM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
Well, what have we really learned, just to make a few observations one can conclude that things will probably take longer to get back to normal as we understand normality.Food supplies are in danger of being limited as farmers cannot get food and cattle to markets. Gasoline prices are cheap, I paid 1.67 per gallon today, last time we saw that was the day GW Bush left office. Airlines are in turmoil, no passengers and fewer routes. Restrictions are taking a toll, you cannot even get a haircut in Florida. Georgia governor thinks tattoos are so important that the shops must reopen. The governor of NY thinks that New Yorker's keep the economy of Florida rolling. Trying to find a roll of toilet paper in a store is nearly impossible, thank goodness for the USA Today, a bit rough but it works.
Glider activity has been curtailed, not many dual flights and lessons, no baseball, cannot even go to Outback and get the special. Drove by Walmart today and say a 300 lb lady wearing a two piece tank top, WOW, that was ugly! I have seen a few good OLC flights lately and it looks like Moriarty is looking active and posting a few good flights. Take care and I hope everyone stays safe and enjoy their gliders.
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 1st 20, 05:16 PM
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 5:48:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> > The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> > The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> > Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> > What goes??? Bob
>
> Well, what have we really learned, just to make a few observations one can conclude that things will probably take longer to get back to normal as we understand normality.Food supplies are in danger of being limited as farmers cannot get food and cattle to markets. Gasoline prices are cheap, I paid 1.67 per gallon today, last time we saw that was the day GW Bush left office. Airlines are in turmoil, no passengers and fewer routes. Restrictions are taking a toll, you cannot even get a haircut in Florida. Georgia governor thinks tattoos are so important that the shops must reopen. The governor of NY thinks that New Yorker's keep the economy of Florida rolling. Trying to find a roll of toilet paper in a store is nearly impossible, thank goodness for the USA Today, a bit rough but it works.
> Glider activity has been curtailed, not many dual flights and lessons, no baseball, cannot even go to Outback and get the special. Drove by Walmart today and say a 300 lb lady wearing a two piece tank top, WOW, that was ugly! I have seen a few good OLC flights lately and it looks like Moriarty is looking active and posting a few good flights. Take care and I hope everyone stays safe and enjoy their gliders.
I think what I have learned is I should have kept my ASH-26e all those years ago. I am starting to understand the benefits of a self launcher.
Shaun Wheeler
May 3rd 20, 10:18 PM
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 11:16:58 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 5:48:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > > Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> > > The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> > > The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> > > Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> > > What goes??? Bob
> >
> > Well, what have we really learned, just to make a few observations one can conclude that things will probably take longer to get back to normal as we understand normality.Food supplies are in danger of being limited as farmers cannot get food and cattle to markets. Gasoline prices are cheap, I paid 1.67 per gallon today, last time we saw that was the day GW Bush left office. Airlines are in turmoil, no passengers and fewer routes. Restrictions are taking a toll, you cannot even get a haircut in Florida. Georgia governor thinks tattoos are so important that the shops must reopen. The governor of NY thinks that New Yorker's keep the economy of Florida rolling. Trying to find a roll of toilet paper in a store is nearly impossible, thank goodness for the USA Today, a bit rough but it works.
> > Glider activity has been curtailed, not many dual flights and lessons, no baseball, cannot even go to Outback and get the special. Drove by Walmart today and say a 300 lb lady wearing a two piece tank top, WOW, that was ugly! I have seen a few good OLC flights lately and it looks like Moriarty is looking active and posting a few good flights. Take care and I hope everyone stays safe and enjoy their gliders.
>
> I think what I have learned is I should have kept my ASH-26e all those years ago. I am starting to understand the benefits of a self launcher.
Couple months ago I dragged Gary Davis along on a pre-inspect. It was a couple hours drive to get there and we had a chance to chat and he made the observation that in 5-10 years everything is likely going to be self launching. I was skeptical, but he's been doing this **** for years so I asked more questions about his idea. He's a pretty smart guy and I definitely value his opinion enough to pay for it.
Now?
If they made a self-launch for my L33 I would have ordered it by now.
The closest club is almost an hour and a half away. Right now it's functioning as a members only club with no new members welcome. I have a sailplane in my driveway that I can't move to the most logical place it ought to be and by the look of things the primary reason I bought it, so I could fly THIS SEASON, is on it's way to being a moot point.
Add self-launch? I don't need that club at all. For anything. I can do my BFR in a Cherokee 140 and I don't even need a medical for that.
I'm not knocking clubs (generally), but I think that self-launch could be the death of at least some of them. For the record, I understand people scared ****less of Covid. Or flu. Or whatever. It's okay to be scared. Go be scared.
But seriously this crap is getting old. Three of my classmates were dead before I got out of Fort Rucker. If people want certainty they either need self-launch, a job in taxes or a one as an embalmer.
What do I think has been learned? A way to extract TRILLIONS of $ from the US Treasury!
The professional scaremongers are doing facepalms saying “Why didn’t we think of this?”
Oh, sorry gotta go. There’s this guy here telling me I have to get in this cattle car. It’s kinda crowded and filthy, but he is assuring me that it’s for my own good and that I will be able to shower up later.
GliderCZ
May 4th 20, 03:12 AM
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 3:19:07 PM UTC-7, WB wrote:
> What do I think has been learned? A way to extract TRILLIONS of $ from the US Treasury!
>
> The professional scaremongers are doing facepalms saying “Why didn’t we think of this?”
>
> Oh, sorry gotta go. There’s this guy here telling me I have to get in this cattle car. It’s kinda crowded and filthy, but he is assuring me that it’s for my own good and that I will be able to shower up later.
Wow! Nazi references! Applied to our country, our representative democracy....
This newsgroup has really hit bottom.
I'm outta here.
See Godwin's Law. It was bound to happen eventually.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/godwins-law/
Ron Clark
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:13:01 PM UTC-4, GliderCZ wrote:
> On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 3:19:07 PM UTC-7, WB wrote:
> > What do I think has been learned? A way to extract TRILLIONS of $ from the US Treasury!
> >
> > The professional scaremongers are doing facepalms saying “Why didn’t we think of this?”
> >
> > Oh, sorry gotta go. There’s this guy here telling me I have to get in this cattle car. It’s kinda crowded and filthy, but he is assuring me that it’s for my own good and that I will be able to shower up later.
>
> Wow! Nazi references! Applied to our country, our representative democracy...
> This newsgroup has really hit bottom.
>
> I'm outta here.
Your virtue signaling is out of date. No wonder many clubs are too weak to fly.
Yes, I thought it was a good time to invoke Godwin’s!
Time to get back to soaring, or at least talking about soaring.
Thank you!
George Carlin used to have fun with phrases like “representative democracy“.
Whoever said “one person can’t change the world”, never ate a half cooked Bat!
JJ
Bob Youngblood
May 21st 20, 09:59 PM
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 12:10:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Whoever said “one person can’t change the world”, never ate a half cooked Bat!
> JJ
Well it seems to be that the half cooked bat has mutated and seems to be delivering a new and upgraded for of Covid-19, almost as unpredictable as I phone 11 or OS MAX 10. When can we expect to get a handle on all this, shall I ask the Michigan Governor??
Mike C
May 21st 20, 10:11 PM
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 10:10:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Whoever said “one person can’t change the world”, never ate a half cooked Bat!
> JJ
Ahh Bats, the Chicken of the Cave.
Bob Youngblood
May 21st 20, 11:13 PM
On Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 5:11:21 PM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
> On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 10:10:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > Whoever said “one person can’t change the world”, never ate a half cooked Bat!
> > JJ
>
> Ahh Bats, the Chicken of the Cave.
Almost like the corn dog at the county fair, except they do not use mustard..
Dan Marotta
May 22nd 20, 01:05 PM
Is that a Tuna joke, Mike?* Are you a fishist or simply a tunist?
On 5/21/2020 3:11 PM, Mike C wrote:
> On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 10:10:38 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>> Whoever said “one person can’t change the world”, never ate a half cooked Bat!
>> JJ
> Ahh Bats, the Chicken of the Cave.
--
Dan, 5J
Hot Tuna, now that was some good music. Dan I guess that just dated me lol. Hows the soaring wx up there? Heading your way in a few weeks.
Dan
Dan Marotta
May 22nd 20, 06:57 PM
Soaring?* What's that?* I'm in rural Texas.* Guess I'll start another
thread...
On 5/22/2020 6:49 AM, wrote:
> Hot Tuna, now that was some good music. Dan I guess that just dated me lol. Hows the soaring wx up there? Heading your way in a few weeks.
> Dan
--
Dan, 5J
Bob Youngblood
May 24th 20, 10:40 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
Well, what have we learned??? Looks like the activity of soaring has been dealt a huge penalty since the arrival of COVID 19. Contest have been canceled, soaring clubs have been limited to very little operations, some have even been closed during the entire epidemic. Our own little club went the entire month of April with no revenue. Good thing we saved a few bucks for something like this, just recently we have been soaring again.
The stagnant period has made us change our student training policy, we have adhered to the social distance policy and I carry a bleach soaked soap rag to wipe down the tow plane controls when I depart or enter the Pawnee.
After receiving the note from the SSA about insurance and glider accidents our club held a meeting and have instituted a policy to increase proficiency standards for all returning pilots and students. We instituted a diversion practice for training glider pilots for their evaluation of tow plane sight concentration. The tow pilots and instructors will be working together in evaluating the students tow performance. Hopefully all clubs will be doing more to set a higher standard upon the return of normal glider operations, hopefully that will happen in the near future.
Hightime
May 27th 20, 09:16 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:07:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
I wake up everyday glad I dont need math for final glide anymore
Bob Youngblood
May 27th 20, 09:28 PM
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 4:16:28 PM UTC-4, Hightime wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:07:17 PM UTC-6, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> > The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> > The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> > Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> > What goes??? Bob
>
> I wake up everyday glad I dont need math for final glide anymore
The new final glide may be in ICU.
Final glide calc is easy for me, if I can see it below my nose, I might just be able to get there.
Dan-
humble 1-26 driver
If you are autorotating in a helicopter and you are looking at your toes, you are looking too far out.
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 28th 20, 02:38 AM
On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 4:32:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> If you are autorotating in a helicopter and you are looking at your toes, you are looking too far out.
I have over 2,000 hours in MD 500's. My aim point was just above my toes in chin bubble, unless doing a 180 auto, then my aim point was sighted through my anus.
> I have over 2,000 hours in MD 500's. My aim point was just above my toes in chin bubble, unless doing a 180 auto, then my aim point was sighted through my anus.
Perhaps flying helicopters may require that particular view. I hesitate to ask how you place your head to achieve this.
Actually, I would prefer to not know. Now I must go consume sufficient fully natured alcoholic beverages to drive the concept from my memory.
Booze! Nature's DELETE key!
Bob Kuykendall
December 21st 20, 10:26 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000. That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
--Bob K.
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
December 22nd 20, 12:57 AM
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>
> >...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000. That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
>
> --Bob K.
Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than the usual flu bodycount. Except curiously this year there is no flu. All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in 2020. You are free to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells you to be. FYI being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
Merry Christmas everyone. And have a blessed 2021. I'm not expecting a racing season in '21 but if we shut off the TV and go to the airport we will get some great soaring in.
PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
December 22nd 20, 04:51 AM
Gregg Ballou wrote on 12/21/2020 4:57 PM:
> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>>
>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000. That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
>>
>> --Bob K.
> Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than the usual flu bodycount. Except curiously this year there is no flu. All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in 2020. You are free to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells you to be. FYI being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
> Merry Christmas everyone. And have a blessed 2021. I'm not expecting a racing season in '21 but if we shut off the TV and go to the airport we will get some great soaring in.
> PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
>
There was plenty of flu this year (estimates of 20-40,000 deaths for the 2019-2020 season), but
very little so far in the 2020-2021 season (that's normal, early in the season, which starts on
week 40). Take a look at the chart (scroll down to "National Center for Health Statistics
(NCHS) Mortality Surveillance"), which shows pneumonia, flu, and Covid-19 deaths:
Pneumonia and Influenza (P&I) Mortality Surveillance
Mortality for people dying with flu-like symptoms is up substantially.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
December 22nd 20, 12:47 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 6:07:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Interesting situation that we are all faced with the last few weeks, things are more serious than we ever expected. I was having a great discussion last evening with my family member who is an Infectious Disease MD, the discussion was eye opening! This is a game changer, and China has much to blame for not informing the world about what was happening with this virus.
> The doctors in China that alerted the gov about what was happening have disappeared, probably shot in some kind of firing line. Infection was spread globally during this time of silence from the Chinese.
> The good to come out of this is that Trump understands how vulnerable us as Americans are due to our lack of manufacturing that has been shipped abroad. We as a country will be in a much better position after this pandemic declines. Medications will once again be made in America, our dependency will be less on the global work force and our country will be better equipped to deal with the next medical crisis that exist. I have for some time been following the work of Dr. Jacob Glanville, who is funded by the Gates foundation. It was interesting to listen to his understanding of this situation and how it will be defeated.
> Flaming liberals are still blaming Trump for this species threatening virus, just tune into the twisted media and listen to what these so called educated idiots are saying, tell me that Jim Acosta is playing with a full deck. Does he really think that this country has a respirator for every person!
> What goes??? Bob
Well, here is a lookback at 2020 and just what did we learn? We learned that the Chinese did not tell the world of the COVID virus until they had purchased huge supplies of protective gear from around the world, therefore putting others at a higher risk. We learned that the Trumpster got screwed in the liberal media. Most every professional sport was drastically altered and that crowd noise was played over the pa systems to simulate fans. We lost Joe Morgan and Sean Connery, and Alex Trebek along with RBG, but we got a great replacement in ACB.
Soaring was affected by the virus as well, limited participation and even some clubs limited training and rides. Contest were canceled, and the ladies found more interest in a harmless depiction than in flying. So, here we go, headed into 2021 with many not opting to take a vaccine, still arguing about counting votes, and Notre Dame gets into the CFP after a kicking by Clemson, was there any justice in 2020 at all? Bob
RR
December 22nd 20, 01:11 PM
It has been hard for people to understand the diference between a public health responce, and a personal health responce. If the vaccine provides significant protection for me (and makes me unable to transit the virus) then if I take it, I don't care if anyone else does. I am good to go. However, the public health issue is what is driving the concern. It is the capisity of the health system, that is overloaded, the morbidity of the virus goes up. The rate of spread controls this. So if it goes unchecked, then truly unrelated illness/accidents goes up from lack of health care workers.
In that there are many hospitals that are now at 100% capisity, we are about to see the effects of unchecked spread. So from a personal prospective, anyone is welcome to deal with there own perceived risk any way they want, but from a public health perspective, you should raly around the flag, and do your part for your countrymen.
The problem with some people (and now even some Swedes) is they are unwilling to curb their activity for the greater good, so government has had to step in. The vaccine rollout will be too slow to effectively curb the public spread for many more months. So buckle up bucks, we still have a long ride.
And if you realy think this is still like the flu, just ask an accute care nurse, who might actually know.
Frank Whiteley
December 22nd 20, 07:55 PM
On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 6:11:20 AM UTC-7, RR wrote:
> It has been hard for people to understand the diference between a public health responce, and a personal health responce. If the vaccine provides significant protection for me (and makes me unable to transit the virus) then if I take it, I don't care if anyone else does. I am good to go. However, the public health issue is what is driving the concern. It is the capisity of the health system, that is overloaded, the morbidity of the virus goes up. The rate of spread controls this. So if it goes unchecked, then truly unrelated illness/accidents goes up from lack of health care workers.
>
> In that there are many hospitals that are now at 100% capisity, we are about to see the effects of unchecked spread. So from a personal prospective, anyone is welcome to deal with there own perceived risk any way they want, but from a public health perspective, you should raly around the flag, and do your part for your countrymen.
>
> The problem with some people (and now even some Swedes) is they are unwilling to curb their activity for the greater good, so government has had to step in. The vaccine rollout will be too slow to effectively curb the public spread for many more months. So buckle up bucks, we still have a long ride.
>
> And if you realy think this is still like the flu, just ask an accute care nurse, who might actually know.
https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/6/e02628-20#:~:text=The%20significance%20of%20our%20study,v accine%20and%20COVID%2D19%20severity. FWIW, you may exercise a choice in that MMR II is considered safe, may impact the severity of COVID-19, may be available at your local commercial shot providers without a doctor's referral, and costs around $100 per injection, 2 x 4 weeks. Other articles are saying to recommended, but it may be a viable option for some.
I am not a doctor, nor do I play on on the Internet, but a doctor did share this.
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
December 22nd 20, 09:53 PM
Frank Whiteley wrote on 12/22/2020 11:55 AM:
> On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 6:11:20 AM UTC-7, RR wrote:
>> It has been hard for people to understand the diference between a public health responce, and a personal health responce. If the vaccine provides significant protection for me (and makes me unable to transit the virus) then if I take it, I don't care if anyone else does. I am good to go. However, the public health issue is what is driving the concern. It is the capisity of the health system, that is overloaded, the morbidity of the virus goes up. The rate of spread controls this. So if it goes unchecked, then truly unrelated illness/accidents goes up from lack of health care workers.
>>
>> In that there are many hospitals that are now at 100% capisity, we are about to see the effects of unchecked spread. So from a personal prospective, anyone is welcome to deal with there own perceived risk any way they want, but from a public health perspective, you should raly around the flag, and do your part for your countrymen.
>>
>> The problem with some people (and now even some Swedes) is they are unwilling to curb their activity for the greater good, so government has had to step in. The vaccine rollout will be too slow to effectively curb the public spread for many more months. So buckle up bucks, we still have a long ride.
>>
>> And if you realy think this is still like the flu, just ask an accute care nurse, who might actually know.
> https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/6/e02628-20#:~:text=The%20significance%20of%20our%20study,v accine%20and%20COVID%2D19%20severity. FWIW, you may exercise a choice in that MMR II is considered safe, may impact the severity of COVID-19, may be available at your local commercial shot providers without a doctor's referral, and costs around $100 per injection, 2 x 4 weeks. Other articles are saying to recommended, but it may be a viable option for some.
>
> I am not a doctor, nor do I play on on the Internet, but a doctor did share this.
>
It's an interesting study, but here's an excerpt from an article about the study (the article
is here:
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-the-measles-vaccine-may-help-protect-against-covid-19#What-comes-next).
"However, Goldenberg stopped short of recommending that adults start asking for booster MMR shots.
Administering MMR vaccine to adults to decrease illness severity during a COVID infection
should not be considered until randomized clinical trials demonstrate efficacy, he told
Healthline.
Gohil concurred.
Its important to be thoughtful about it. I dont think you should be giving someone a booster
just because theres a potential link, she said.
Gohil said there havent been studies on giving boosters to adults, and we dont know what side
effects there might be. More research would be required before making such a recommendation.
It would be replacing one problem for another if we didnt study that in a systematic way,
she said.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Frank Whiteley
December 23rd 20, 05:30 AM
On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 2:53:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Frank Whiteley wrote on 12/22/2020 11:55 AM:
> > On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 6:11:20 AM UTC-7, RR wrote:
> >> It has been hard for people to understand the diference between a public health responce, and a personal health responce. If the vaccine provides significant protection for me (and makes me unable to transit the virus) then if I take it, I don't care if anyone else does. I am good to go. However, the public health issue is what is driving the concern. It is the capisity of the health system, that is overloaded, the morbidity of the virus goes up. The rate of spread controls this. So if it goes unchecked, then truly unrelated illness/accidents goes up from lack of health care workers.
> >>
> >> In that there are many hospitals that are now at 100% capisity, we are about to see the effects of unchecked spread. So from a personal prospective, anyone is welcome to deal with there own perceived risk any way they want, but from a public health perspective, you should raly around the flag, and do your part for your countrymen.
> >>
> >> The problem with some people (and now even some Swedes) is they are unwilling to curb their activity for the greater good, so government has had to step in. The vaccine rollout will be too slow to effectively curb the public spread for many more months. So buckle up bucks, we still have a long ride.
> >>
> >> And if you realy think this is still like the flu, just ask an accute care nurse, who might actually know.
> > https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/6/e02628-20#:~:text=The%20significance%20of%20our%20study,v accine%20and%20COVID%2D19%20severity. FWIW, you may exercise a choice in that MMR II is considered safe, may impact the severity of COVID-19, may be available at your local commercial shot providers without a doctor's referral, and costs around $100 per injection, 2 x 4 weeks. Other articles are saying to recommended, but it may be a viable option for some.
> >
> > I am not a doctor, nor do I play on on the Internet, but a doctor did share this.
> >
> It's an interesting study, but here's an excerpt from an article about the study (the article
> is here:
> https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-the-measles-vaccine-may-help-protect-against-covid-19#What-comes-next).
>
>
> "However, Goldenberg stopped short of recommending that adults start asking for booster MMR shots.
>
> “Administering MMR vaccine to adults to decrease illness severity during a COVID infection
> should not be considered until randomized clinical trials demonstrate efficacy,” he told
> Healthline.
>
> Gohil concurred.
>
> “It’s important to be thoughtful about it. I don’t think you should be giving someone a booster
> just because there’s a potential link,” she said.
>
> Gohil said there haven’t been studies on giving boosters to adults, and we don’t know what side
> effects there might be. More research would be required before making such a recommendation.
>
> “It would be replacing one problem for another if we didn’t study that in a systematic way,”
> she said.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Sorry, I see I mistyped on my post, should have said "Other articles are saying NOT recommended. You found those. Some of this reminds me of the mandatory Swine Flu vaccines us in the military were given in 1976. I got two injections, a few weeks apart. FWIW, I felt great after the second shot for a long while, so am not sure what kind of elixir it was, but it added a feeling of intense physical well being. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but one of my wife's cousins had a bout of GBS following a flu shot 5-6 years ago and wound up on a ventilator for a while. He recovered but it put a dent in his life. I don't take the flu shot every year, but find it interesting that the MMR II might be the reason for younger persons being less affected.
2G
December 23rd 20, 05:50 AM
On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 9:30:24 PM UTC-8, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 2:53:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > Frank Whiteley wrote on 12/22/2020 11:55 AM:
> > > On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 6:11:20 AM UTC-7, RR wrote:
> > >> It has been hard for people to understand the diference between a public health responce, and a personal health responce. If the vaccine provides significant protection for me (and makes me unable to transit the virus) then if I take it, I don't care if anyone else does. I am good to go. However, the public health issue is what is driving the concern. It is the capisity of the health system, that is overloaded, the morbidity of the virus goes up. The rate of spread controls this. So if it goes unchecked, then truly unrelated illness/accidents goes up from lack of health care workers.
> > >>
> > >> In that there are many hospitals that are now at 100% capisity, we are about to see the effects of unchecked spread. So from a personal prospective, anyone is welcome to deal with there own perceived risk any way they want, but from a public health perspective, you should raly around the flag, and do your part for your countrymen.
> > >>
> > >> The problem with some people (and now even some Swedes) is they are unwilling to curb their activity for the greater good, so government has had to step in. The vaccine rollout will be too slow to effectively curb the public spread for many more months. So buckle up bucks, we still have a long ride.
> > >>
> > >> And if you realy think this is still like the flu, just ask an accute care nurse, who might actually know.
> > > https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/6/e02628-20#:~:text=The%20significance%20of%20our%20study,v accine%20and%20COVID%2D19%20severity. FWIW, you may exercise a choice in that MMR II is considered safe, may impact the severity of COVID-19, may be available at your local commercial shot providers without a doctor's referral, and costs around $100 per injection, 2 x 4 weeks.. Other articles are saying to recommended, but it may be a viable option for some.
> > >
> > > I am not a doctor, nor do I play on on the Internet, but a doctor did share this.
> > >
> > It's an interesting study, but here's an excerpt from an article about the study (the article
> > is here:
> > https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-the-measles-vaccine-may-help-protect-against-covid-19#What-comes-next).
> >
> >
> > "However, Goldenberg stopped short of recommending that adults start asking for booster MMR shots.
> >
> > “Administering MMR vaccine to adults to decrease illness severity during a COVID infection
> > should not be considered until randomized clinical trials demonstrate efficacy,” he told
> > Healthline.
> >
> > Gohil concurred.
> >
> > “It’s important to be thoughtful about it. I don’t think you should be giving someone a booster
> > just because there’s a potential link,” she said.
> >
> > Gohil said there haven’t been studies on giving boosters to adults, and we don’t know what side
> > effects there might be. More research would be required before making such a recommendation.
> >
> > “It would be replacing one problem for another if we didn’t study that in a systematic way,”
> > she said.
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> Sorry, I see I mistyped on my post, should have said "Other articles are saying NOT recommended. You found those. Some of this reminds me of the mandatory Swine Flu vaccines us in the military were given in 1976. I got two injections, a few weeks apart. FWIW, I felt great after the second shot for a long while, so am not sure what kind of elixir it was, but it added a feeling of intense physical well being. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but one of my wife's cousins had a bout of GBS following a flu shot 5-6 years ago and wound up on a ventilator for a while. He recovered but it put a dent in his life. I don't take the flu shot every year, but find it interesting that the MMR II might be the reason for younger persons being less affected.
The COVID vaccine will be widely available long before they have done large double-blind studies of the MMR vaccine. You should be able to get it just to protect you from MMR - COVID protection would be a bonus.
Tom
MNLou
December 23rd 20, 04:42 PM
On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 6:57:12 PM UTC-6, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in 2020.
Apparently not - https://apnews.com/article/us-coronavirus-deaths-top-3-million-e2bc856b6ec45563b84ee2e87ae8d5e7
Lou
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
December 23rd 20, 06:09 PM
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 08:42:37 -0800, MNLou wrote:
> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 6:57:12 PM UTC-6, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>>All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in 2020.
>
> Apparently not -
> https://apnews.com/article/us-coronavirus-deaths-top-3-million-
e2bc856b6ec45563b84ee2e87ae8d5e7
>
> Lou
Err, no.
That has to be ALL US deaths so far in 2020 because, according to
the Worldometers website, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
as of a minute ago, global COVID deaths are 1,730,566 with 331,518 of
those being in the USA.
--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
MNLou
December 23rd 20, 07:34 PM
Agreed Martin - This compares all deaths in the US between different years. 2020 appears to be on track to be 400,000+ more than last year.
With only one obvious cause.
Lou
Dan Marotta
December 23rd 20, 07:41 PM
On 12/21/20 5:57 PM, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>>
>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000. That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
>>
>> --Bob K.
> Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than the usual flu bodycount. Except curiously this year there is no flu. All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in 2020. You are free to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells you to be. FYI being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
> Merry Christmas everyone. And have a blessed 2021. I'm not expecting a racing season in '21 but if we shut off the TV and go to the airport we will get some great soaring in.
> PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
>
Joan Crawford to police: "He died from natural causes."
Police officer: "You pushed him off the roof."
Joan Crawford: "Gravity is a natural phenomenon."
Police officer: "We'll list the cause of death as corona virus."
Case closed.
--
Dan
5J
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
December 23rd 20, 07:54 PM
Dan Marotta wrote on 12/23/2020 11:41 AM:
> On 12/21/20 5:57 PM, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>>> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000.
>>> That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths
>>> averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
>>>
>>> --Bob K.
>> Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than the usual flu bodycount.
>> Except curiously this year there is no flu.* All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in
>> 2020.* You are free to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells you to be.* FYI
>> being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
>> Merry Christmas everyone.* And have a blessed 2021.* I'm not expecting a racing season in '21
>> but if we shut off the TV and go to the airport we will get some great soaring in.
>> PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group
>> https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
>>
>>
>
> Joan Crawford to police:* "He died from natural causes."
> Police officer:* "You pushed him off the roof."
> Joan Crawford:* "Gravity is a natural phenomenon."
> Police officer:* "We'll list the cause of death as corona virus."
>
> Case closed.
>
That does not explain the hospitals at max capacity, or higher; the 12 hour shifts so many of
the doctors and nurses must fill; the need for refrigerated morgue trucks parked behind the
hospitals; retirement homes that lose so many of their residents in a couple weeks. These facts
are real, and not due to mislabeling the cause of death; in fact, the evidence suggests Covid
deaths are under reported.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Dan Marotta
December 23rd 20, 08:57 PM
On 12/23/20 12:54 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Dan Marotta wrote on 12/23/2020 11:41 AM:
>> On 12/21/20 5:57 PM, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>>>> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from
>>>> Covid-19 surpassed 300,000. That was in about ten months since the
>>>> first US death in early February. With daily deaths averaging ~2500,
>>>> we're now up around 320,000.
>>>>
>>>> --Bob K.
>>> Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than
>>> the usual flu bodycount. Except curiously this year there is no flu.
>>> All cause mortality is the same or a bit less in 2020.* You are free
>>> to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells you to be.
>>> FYI being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
>>> Merry Christmas everyone.* And have a blessed 2021.* I'm not
>>> expecting a racing season in '21 but if we shut off the TV and go to
>>> the airport we will get some great soaring in.
>>> PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group
>>> https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Joan Crawford to police:* "He died from natural causes."
>> Police officer:* "You pushed him off the roof."
>> Joan Crawford:* "Gravity is a natural phenomenon."
>> Police officer:* "We'll list the cause of death as corona virus."
>>
>> Case closed.
>>
> That does not explain the hospitals at max capacity, or higher; the 12
> hour shifts so many of the doctors and nurses must fill; the need for
> refrigerated morgue trucks parked behind the hospitals; retirement homes
> that lose so many of their residents in a couple weeks. These facts are
> real, and not due to mislabeling the cause of death; in fact, the
> evidence suggests Covid deaths are under reported.
>
Is there no sense of humor left in this country?
--
Dan
5J
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
December 23rd 20, 09:14 PM
Dan Marotta wrote on 12/23/2020 12:57 PM:
> On 12/23/20 12:54 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> Dan Marotta wrote on 12/23/2020 11:41 AM:
>>> On 12/21/20 5:57 PM, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>>>> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>>>>> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000.
>>>>> That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths
>>>>> averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Bob K.
>>>> Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than the usual flu
>>>> bodycount. Except curiously this year there is no flu. All cause mortality is the same or a
>>>> bit less in 2020.* You are free to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells
>>>> you to be. FYI being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
>>>> Merry Christmas everyone.* And have a blessed 2021.* I'm not expecting a racing season in
>>>> '21 but if we shut off the TV and go to the airport we will get some great soaring in.
>>>> PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group
>>>> https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Joan Crawford to police:* "He died from natural causes."
>>> Police officer:* "You pushed him off the roof."
>>> Joan Crawford:* "Gravity is a natural phenomenon."
>>> Police officer:* "We'll list the cause of death as corona virus."
>>>
>>> Case closed.
>>>
>> That does not explain the hospitals at max capacity, or higher; the 12 hour shifts so many of
>> the doctors and nurses must fill; the need for refrigerated morgue trucks parked behind the
>> hospitals; retirement homes that lose so many of their residents in a couple weeks. These
>> facts are real, and not due to mislabeling the cause of death; in fact, the evidence suggests
>> Covid deaths are under reported.
>>
>
> Is there no sense of humor left in this country?
>
Probably not. It's hard to be humorous about all these deaths, when so many people in our area
(SE Washington State) think it's just the doctors lying to make more money on a fake Covid
death instead what really caused the death. They pack into illegally operated bars and
restaurants, hold big weddings in private hangars, house too many migrant workers in dorms, and
are pretty much ensuring the businesses and schools won't be getting back to normal operation
for months more than otherwise.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
George Haeh
December 23rd 20, 09:43 PM
Mother Nature is Judge, Jury and Executioner when it comes to violators of the laws of aeronautics (as many pilots' families have found out) and epidemiology.
No pardons.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
December 23rd 20, 10:41 PM
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 11:34:28 -0800, MNLou wrote:
> Agreed Martin - This compares all deaths in the US between different
> years. 2020 appears to be on track to be 400,000+ more than last year.
>
.... or more when the newly discovered UK and South African variants reach
the USA.
Sadly.
--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
2G
December 24th 20, 06:30 AM
On Wednesday, December 23, 2020 at 1:14:18 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Dan Marotta wrote on 12/23/2020 12:57 PM:
> > On 12/23/20 12:54 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> Dan Marotta wrote on 12/23/2020 11:41 AM:
> >>> On 12/21/20 5:57 PM, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 5:26:49 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> >>>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> >>>>> Quick though belated update: A week or so ago US deaths from Covid-19 surpassed 300,000.
> >>>>> That was in about ten months since the first US death in early February. With daily deaths
> >>>>> averaging ~2500, we're now up around 320,000.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --Bob K.
> >>>> Without comorbidity BS accounting the 'rona death rate is less than the usual flu
> >>>> bodycount. Except curiously this year there is no flu. All cause mortality is the same or a
> >>>> bit less in 2020. You are free to be as scared as you want, or as scared as the TV tells
> >>>> you to be. FYI being scared is really bad for immune system functioning.
> >>>> Merry Christmas everyone. And have a blessed 2021. I'm not expecting a racing season in
> >>>> '21 but if we shut off the TV and go to the airport we will get some great soaring in.
> >>>> PS Some numbers from the Pfizer control group
> >>>> https://www.theburningplatform.com/2020/12/15/why-the-number-3-may-make-you-rethink-covid-hysteria/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Joan Crawford to police: "He died from natural causes."
> >>> Police officer: "You pushed him off the roof."
> >>> Joan Crawford: "Gravity is a natural phenomenon."
> >>> Police officer: "We'll list the cause of death as corona virus."
> >>>
> >>> Case closed.
> >>>
> >> That does not explain the hospitals at max capacity, or higher; the 12 hour shifts so many of
> >> the doctors and nurses must fill; the need for refrigerated morgue trucks parked behind the
> >> hospitals; retirement homes that lose so many of their residents in a couple weeks. These
> >> facts are real, and not due to mislabeling the cause of death; in fact, the evidence suggests
> >> Covid deaths are under reported.
> >>
> >
> > Is there no sense of humor left in this country?
> >
> Probably not. It's hard to be humorous about all these deaths, when so many people in our area
> (SE Washington State) think it's just the doctors lying to make more money on a fake Covid
> death instead what really caused the death. They pack into illegally operated bars and
> restaurants, hold big weddings in private hangars, house too many migrant workers in dorms, and
> are pretty much ensuring the businesses and schools won't be getting back to normal operation
> for months more than otherwise.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Yet those same demagogs say that mass protests w/o nary a mask is site is ok (freedom of speech, you know) - the hypocrisy is deafening.
Paul B[_2_]
December 28th 20, 09:02 AM
From the The Australian, paper with national circulation
"NSW government’s weekly COVID surveillance report have unearthed a frightening fact. Many of those who have coronavirus, have no idea they’ve got it."
Make of it what you want.
Cheers
Paul
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
December 28th 20, 03:29 PM
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 01:02:00 -0800, Paul B wrote:
> From the The Australian, paper with national circulation
>
> "NSW government’s weekly COVID surveillance report have unearthed a
> frightening fact. Many of those who have coronavirus, have no idea
> they’ve got it."
>
> Make of it what you want.
>
This is well known in the UK as generally known as "symptomless COVID
infection". It seems that this can be best mitigated my face-masks (which
protect others from infection by the wearer - not the other way round)
and will only be reliably detected by an reliable, effective track&trace
system.
Reliable Track&Trace is a problem in the UK, since we don't appear to
have a working system.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Guy Acheson[_2_]
December 28th 20, 03:45 PM
Nor in the USA.
And, believe it or not, many people will not answer the questions that tracers ask. Or, they tell untruths or partial truths.
Another reason they should just put tracking chips in everyone from birth.
Mark Mocho
December 28th 20, 04:08 PM
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 8:45:32 AM UTC-7, Guy Acheson wrote:
> Nor in the USA.
> And, believe it or not, many people will not answer the questions that tracers ask. Or, they tell untruths or partial truths.
> Another reason they should just put tracking chips in everyone from birth.
Just issue an iPhone to everyone and superglue it to their hand. Same result.
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
December 28th 20, 06:04 PM
The only way to be safe is to quit living. If you are asymptomatic and landout you could infect a whole village with skypox. Sure at least 99.8% of them will live, but think of the bad PR for soaring.
December 28th 20, 06:16 PM
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 8:08:13 AM UTC-8, Mark Mocho wrote:
> Just issue an iPhone to everyone and superglue it to their hand. Same result.
From what I see, no glue is needed.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
December 28th 20, 07:43 PM
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 07:45:30 -0800, Guy Acheson wrote:
> Nor in the USA.
> And, believe it or not, many people will not answer the questions that
> tracers ask. Or, they tell untruths or partial truths.
>
Same in the UK. Idiots.
--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
December 28th 20, 09:52 PM
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 2:43:43 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 07:45:30 -0800, Guy Acheson wrote:
>
> > Nor in the USA.
> > And, believe it or not, many people will not answer the questions that
> > tracers ask. Or, they tell untruths or partial truths.
> >
> Same in the UK. Idiots.
>
>
> --
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Since things have become so complicated why not issue a tattoo to every person whom is vaccinated. Look, you don't need Elvis on your thigh or the names of your last four wives, just a simple tattoo of either the Modera or the Pfizer logo on tour wrist or hand to confirm that you have been vaccinated. Therefore, you can mingle among the crowd, avoid social distancing and not wear a mask, that puts you in the same crowd as the millennials.
December 29th 20, 12:42 AM
On Monday, 28 December 2020 at 19:43:43 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> ... Same in the UK. Idiots.
Perhaps not idiots, just selfish.
Not the only national group to be so.
J.
Bob Kuykendall
January 19th 21, 08:26 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
It's not even a full year, the US death count is now over 400,000, and the rate is still climbing.
--Bob K.
January 19th 21, 08:51 PM
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:26:10 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> >...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> It's not even a full year, the US death count is now over 400,000, and the rate is still climbing.
>
> --Bob K.
Just wait Bob, the toll will go much higher as soon as the caravan from Honduras gets here in enough time to attend the inauguration. I am flying my glider tomorrow, just disconnected Direct TV and building a wall around my la casa in Vero Beach.
Bob Kuykendall
February 17th 21, 07:12 PM
On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
--Bob K.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 17th 21, 08:01 PM
On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:12:43 -0800, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou
> > wrote:
>>...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>
> Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from
> Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the
> first US death in early February 2020.
>
According to worldometer, unfortunately that's already happened:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Dan Marotta
February 17th 21, 08:24 PM
Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
Dan
5J
On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>
> Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
>
> Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
>
> --Bob K.
>
2G
February 17th 21, 08:45 PM
On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:24:45 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> >> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> >
> > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> >
> > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> >
> > --Bob K.
> >
For some time the doubling time for COVID deaths was on a 2-day trajectory. This has now dropped dramatically and is now 150 days for the US and is falling rapidly. It is very clear that President Trump's Warp Speed initiative has been remarkedly successful (despite the remarks of Konfused Kamala).
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?data=deaths
Tom
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 17th 21, 09:18 PM
Dan Marotta wrote on 2/17/2021 12:24 PM:
> Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
>
> Dan
> 5J
>
> On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>>
>> Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half
>> a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
>>
>> Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up
>> to scale.
>>
>> --Bob K.
>>
We are swiftly approaching 500,000 "excess deaths" since last February. Traffic accidents
normally claim about 35,000, and can not explain that number. Don't let the conspiracy
promoters talk you out of wearing a mask, social distancing, and other CDC recommended
practices. I still want to see your autogyro this summer, so don't get sick on me!
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Dan Marotta
February 17th 21, 09:22 PM
Get sick on you, Eric? Not a chance. Due to my location, social
distancing is a fact of life and I'll have had my shots before you get
here. If you fit the loading requirements, I'll show you the fun of the
gyro, if you like.
Dan
5J
On 2/17/21 2:18 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Dan Marotta wrote on 2/17/2021 12:24 PM:
>> Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
>>
>> Dan
>> 5J
>>
>> On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou
>>> > wrote:
>>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
>>>
>>> Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from
>>> Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since
>>> the first US death in early February 2020.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow
>>> start and is ramping up to scale.
>>>
>>> --Bob K.
>>>
> We are swiftly approaching 500,000 "excess deaths" since last February.
> Traffic accidents normally claim about 35,000, and can not explain that
> number. Don't let the conspiracy promoters talk you out of wearing a
> mask, social distancing, and other CDC recommended practices. I still
> want to see your autogyro this summer, so don't get sick on me!
>
john firth
February 17th 21, 09:52 PM
On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 4:22:34 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Get sick on you, Eric? Not a chance. Due to my location, social
> distancing is a fact of life and I'll have had my shots before you get
> here. If you fit the loading requirements, I'll show you the fun of the
> gyro, if you like.
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/17/21 2:18 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > Dan Marotta wrote on 2/17/2021 12:24 PM:
> >> Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
> >>
> >> Dan
> >> 5J
> >>
> >> On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> >>>
> >>> Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from
> >>> Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since
> >>> the first US death in early February 2020.
> >>>
> >>> Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow
> >>> start and is ramping up to scale.
> >>>
> >>> --Bob K.
> >>>
> > We are swiftly approaching 500,000 "excess deaths" since last February.
> > Traffic accidents normally claim about 35,000, and can not explain that
> > number. Don't let the conspiracy promoters talk you out of wearing a
> > mask, social distancing, and other CDC recommended practices. I still
> > want to see your autogyro this summer, so don't get sick on me!
> >
In a fascinating and erudite book, Guns, Germs and Steel, Jared Diamond said in the
Germs section , " the most serious threat to humankind , is a pandemic
with no effective vaccine". That was published 20 years ago; there but for the grace
of clever microbiologists go we.
BTW a Chinese researcher unravelled the genome sequence and published it on the internet
at the beginning of 2020, thus giving the vaccine scientists a head start.
John Firth not a biologist.
Jonathan St. Cloud
February 18th 21, 05:22 PM
No, that guy died from a heart attack as the car approached. Since it was a heart attack the auto insurance company won't pay.
On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:24:45 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> >> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> >
> > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> >
> > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> >
> > --Bob K.
> >
andy l
February 18th 21, 07:07 PM
On Wednesday, 17 February 2021 at 20:45:44 UTC, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:24:45 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
> >
> > Dan
> > 5J
> > On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> > >> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> > >
> > > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> > >
> > > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> > >
> > > --Bob K.
> > >
> For some time the doubling time for COVID deaths was on a 2-day trajectory. This has now dropped dramatically and is now 150 days for the US and is falling rapidly. It is very clear that President Trump's Warp Speed initiative has been remarkedly successful (despite the remarks of Konfused Kamala)..
> https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?data=deaths
>
> Tom
That sounds rather akin to Trump's repetitive boasts about the stock market hurtling upwards as soon as he'd lost the election
Vaccines have been developed around the world, and the Pfizer one, the first in use, had no finance from Trump's programme
Trump spent ages cultivating ideas in people's minds that behaviour such as wearing masks and social distsncing were almost party political or personal liberty or macho issues. The White House and Trump campaign events were super spreading. How many people ere infected by Guiliani's non-compliance?
Jonathan St. Cloud
February 18th 21, 08:27 PM
https://www.theonion.com/rudy-giuliani-tests-positive-for-slew-of-obscure-bat-di-1845255014
On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 11:07:19 AM UTC-8, andy l wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 February 2021 at 20:45:44 UTC, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:24:45 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> > > >> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> > > >
> > > > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> > > >
> > > > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> > > >
> > > > --Bob K.
> > > >
> > For some time the doubling time for COVID deaths was on a 2-day trajectory. This has now dropped dramatically and is now 150 days for the US and is falling rapidly. It is very clear that President Trump's Warp Speed initiative has been remarkedly successful (despite the remarks of Konfused Kamala).
> > https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?data=deaths
> >
> > Tom
> That sounds rather akin to Trump's repetitive boasts about the stock market hurtling upwards as soon as he'd lost the election
>
> Vaccines have been developed around the world, and the Pfizer one, the first in use, had no finance from Trump's programme
>
> Trump spent ages cultivating ideas in people's minds that behaviour such as wearing masks and social distsncing were almost party political or personal liberty or macho issues. The White House and Trump campaign events were super spreading. How many people ere infected by Guiliani's non-compliance?
February 19th 21, 12:47 AM
On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 2:07:19 PM UTC-5, andy l wrote:
> On Wednesday, 17 February 2021 at 20:45:44 UTC, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:24:45 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > > On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> > > >> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> > > >
> > > > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> > > >
> > > > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> > > >
> > > > --Bob K.
> > > >
> > For some time the doubling time for COVID deaths was on a 2-day trajectory. This has now dropped dramatically and is now 150 days for the US and is falling rapidly. It is very clear that President Trump's Warp Speed initiative has been remarkedly successful (despite the remarks of Konfused Kamala).
> > https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?data=deaths
> >
> > Tom
> That sounds rather akin to Trump's repetitive boasts about the stock market hurtling upwards as soon as he'd lost the election
>
> Vaccines have been developed around the world, and the Pfizer one, the first in use, had no finance from Trump's programme
>
> Trump spent ages cultivating ideas in people's minds that behaviour such as wearing masks and social distsncing were almost party political or personal liberty or macho issues. The White House and Trump campaign events were super spreading. How many people ere infected by Guiliani's non-compliance?
Andy, I think MSNBC and CNN are looking for more people to spread the BS, you will fit in just fine. Bob
andy l
February 19th 21, 02:22 AM
On Friday, 19 February 2021 at 00:47:03 UTC, wrote:
> On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 2:07:19 PM UTC-5, andy l wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 17 February 2021 at 20:45:44 UTC, 2G wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:24:45 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > > Does that include the guy who had the virus and was run over by a truck?
> > > >
> > > > Dan
> > > > 5J
> > > > On 2/17/21 12:12 PM, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> > > > >> ...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> > > > >
> > > > > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Bob K.
> > > > >
> > > For some time the doubling time for COVID deaths was on a 2-day trajectory. This has now dropped dramatically and is now 150 days for the US and is falling rapidly. It is very clear that President Trump's Warp Speed initiative has been remarkedly successful (despite the remarks of Konfused Kamala).
> > > https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?data=deaths
> > >
> > > Tom
> > That sounds rather akin to Trump's repetitive boasts about the stock market hurtling upwards as soon as he'd lost the election
> >
> > Vaccines have been developed around the world, and the Pfizer one, the first in use, had no finance from Trump's programme
> >
> > Trump spent ages cultivating ideas in people's minds that behaviour such as wearing masks and social distsncing were almost party political or personal liberty or macho issues. The White House and Trump campaign events were super spreading. How many people ere infected by Guiliani's non-compliance?
> Andy, I think MSNBC and CNN are looking for more people to spread the BS, you will fit in just fine. Bob
Nothing I said is actually untrue, though perhaps it didn't need to go quite that far towards revisiting older aspects
Fortunately, in both our countries, vaccine development and rollout looks like being more successful than earlier handling that ranged from fairly average to dismal.
Here (UK), the over 80s, the first group to receive the vaccine, already show marked drops in infections and hospital admissions. Currently we're doing over 65s and clinically vulnerable.
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
February 19th 21, 01:30 PM
On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 2:12:45 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> >...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
>
> Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
>
> --Bob K.
Bob your TV is killing you. The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids. The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news. The short term data is ugly, just wait for the 'unexplained' surge in autoimmune disease. Besides what should the soaring community do about any of it? Cancel the entire 2021 season? How about the next decade, we can't be too safe? Pretend face diapers do something? Wait until the claimed death toll is six million and invade some foreign country? War is always a great feel good distraction for retards when the power of fake news slips.
Anyway if anyone is going to be reckless and take unapproved GMO vaccines, for the love of soaring, will your gliders to a youth program before getting the jab.
February 19th 21, 04:03 PM
On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 8:30:12 AM UTC-5, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 2:12:45 PM UTC-5, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> > >...Yearly flu has a higher body count...
> > Quick update: Sometime in the next few days, the US death toll from Covid-19 will exceed half a million. That's in about 380 days since the first US death in early February 2020.
> >
> > Fortunately, the vaccination effort is now recovering from its slow start and is ramping up to scale.
> >
> > --Bob K.
> Bob your TV is killing you. The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids. The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news. The short term data is ugly, just wait for the 'unexplained' surge in autoimmune disease. Besides what should the soaring community do about any of it? Cancel the entire 2021 season? How about the next decade, we can't be too safe? Pretend face diapers do something? Wait until the claimed death toll is six million and invade some foreign country? War is always a great feel good distraction for retards when the power of fake news slips.
> Anyway if anyone is going to be reckless and take unapproved GMO vaccines, for the love of soaring, will your gliders to a youth program before getting the jab.
Gregg, to your surprise I got so ****ed off at the media I canceled all TV in my house, only watch Newsmax on the computer. Yea, as far as war goes it does seem to be the policy of the Democrats to change the directive. I did get the jab, can honestly say that after my close friend stayed 30 days in ICU, even had dreams of his own funeral, it seemed to be the best alternative.
My wife and I still practice safe measures when being outside our home environment, rather be safe than sorry. After retiring and having several surgeries during the 219-20 years about the only thing to do is fly the gliders and play with a few toys. I have been teaching myself video editing, and playing with drones.
The weather here in Florida has been sub par for this time of year, I cannot see this spring as a stellar soaring venue, too wet and unusual weather leading up to March, and then add the COVID situation, well I need not say anymore about that. Now more about soaring, October, which can be the second best month of the year was a dud, the WX pattern has not changed much in our favor. I did think it was beginning to dry out a bit and the motorglider guys from Seminole Motorglider facility made one respectable flight about a week back, but nothing since. Combine the WX with the unfortunate death of Rush Limbaugh and we are all in mourning here in the sunshine state. Take care, hope you get in the air soon, fly safe. Bob
February 21st 21, 02:14 AM
On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 5:30:12 AM UTC-8, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids. The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
When I read this I had to check if I was somehow in InfoWars comments or still on RAS. I thought glider pilots were smarter than this. Guess I was wrong.
Steve
I get my second shot next week. Hope I live though it. Right Gregg?
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
February 21st 21, 02:46 AM
On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 9:14:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Friday, February 19, 2021 at 5:30:12 AM UTC-8, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>
> > > On Sunday, April 5, 2020 at 4:56:02 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou > wrote:
> The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids. The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> When I read this I had to check if I was somehow in InfoWars comments or still on RAS. I thought glider pilots were smarter than this. Guess I was wrong.
>
> Steve
> I get my second shot next week. Hope I live though it. Right Gregg?
I don't wish ill on you or anyone else taking the vaccine. Of course glider pilots that took the jab were smart enough to look through the Vaers data, read papers from dissenting scientists, and research the history of MRNA treatments before taking an experimental gene modification. FYI There are more adverse reactions to the second shot then the first. And not dying immediately after the second shot doesn't mean you are out of the woods. If you do have negative side effects for the sake of science please report them on https://vaers.hhs.gov/ Good luck and good health to you.
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 21st 21, 04:50 AM
Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
"We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we dont think the rooster makes the
sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
purity and motorgliders :^)
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Paul B[_2_]
February 21st 21, 05:18 AM
"About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
Cheers
Paul
On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> > The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
>
> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
>
> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> purity and motorgliders :^)
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
2G
February 21st 21, 05:52 AM
On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 9:18:33 PM UTC-8, Paul B wrote:
> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> > > The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> > "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> > sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
> >
> > About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> > far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> > that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
> >
> > Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> > purity and motorgliders :^)
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
We all pretty much know what the odds are if we catch COVID (not good if you're 65+). Here are the side effects of getting vaccinated (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-02-19/cdc-study-serious-adverse-reactions-following-coronavirus-vaccinations-are-rare):
From mid-December to mid-January, over 13.7 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were administered across the country. According to the study, just under 7,000 adverse events were reported to vaccine surveillance systems during that time frame, with the majority of events categorized as "non serious" and 640 – less than 10% of the reported adverse events – documented as "serious."
Getting vaccinated was pretty much a no-brainer.
Tom
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 21st 21, 01:10 PM
Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
>
> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we dont think the rooster makes the
>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
>>
>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
>>
>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
>> purity and motorgliders :^)
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Rakel
February 21st 21, 01:14 PM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 12:52:28 AM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 9:18:33 PM UTC-8, Paul B wrote:
> ...Getting vaccinated was pretty much a no-brainer.
>
> Tom
I received my second Covid vaccination 3 weeks ago and I am doing fine.
Yes, all vaccinations are not without side effects, but getting Covid-19 is far more deadly than the vaccination.
I will take my chances with the vaccine.
I also took my chances in 1954 when I was one of the first children to get the polio vaccine.
It worked for me.
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 21st 21, 01:16 PM
2G wrote on 2/20/2021 9:52 PM:
> On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 9:18:33 PM UTC-8, Paul B wrote:
>> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
>> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Paul
>> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
>>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
>>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we dont think the rooster makes the
>>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
>>>
>>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
>>>
>>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
>>> purity and motorgliders :^)
>>> --
>>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>
> We all pretty much know what the odds are if we catch COVID (not good if you're 65+). Here are the side effects of getting vaccinated (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-02-19/cdc-study-serious-adverse-reactions-following-coronavirus-vaccinations-are-rare):
>
> From mid-December to mid-January, over 13.7 million doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were administered across the country. According to the study, just under 7,000 adverse events were reported to vaccine surveillance systems during that time frame, with the majority of events categorized as "non serious" and 640 less than 10% of the reported adverse events documented as "serious."
>
> Getting vaccinated was pretty much a no-brainer.
>
> Tom
>
Yes, indeed: if "The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids", there would've been about 140,000
deaths (1%) from the vaccinations, yet there were only a thousand or so deaths after the
vaccinations, and none were attributed to the vaccine.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
February 21st 21, 06:15 PM
>Yes, indeed: if "The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids", there would've been about 140,000
> deaths (1%) from the vaccinations, yet there were only a thousand or so deaths after the
> vaccinations, and none were attributed to the vaccine.
> --
Deaths of any cause where cov-aids was possibly present scored as a cov-aids kill. All deaths post vaccination scored as other than a vaccination kill. You guys are disappointing. Sad thing is the vaccine 'might' be useful for health if it reduced fear, solely by the health benefits of not living scared, but the pubic health people say you still need to be afraid after getting jabbed.
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 21st 21, 08:49 PM
Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/21/2021 10:15 AM:
>
>> Yes, indeed: if "The vaccine is more deadly than cov-aids", there would've been about 140,000
>> deaths (1%) from the vaccinations, yet there were only a thousand or so deaths after the
>> vaccinations, and none were attributed to the vaccine.
>> --
> Deaths of any cause where cov-aids was possibly present scored as a cov-aids kill. All deaths post vaccination scored as other than a vaccination kill. You guys are disappointing. Sad thing is the vaccine 'might' be useful for health if it reduced fear, solely by the health benefits of not living scared, but the pubic health people say you still need to be afraid after getting jabbed.
>
You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. Those of us who take
the CDC recommendations seriously are not living in fear, anymore than glider pilots wearing
parachutes are living in fear: it is a sensible response to a real problem. I hope you will
wear a parachute in the air and a mask on the ground.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Mark Mocho
February 21st 21, 09:07 PM
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
"Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
February 21st 21, 09:53 PM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
>
> How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
>
> "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
Well stated!
John Godfrey
February 22nd 21, 12:37 AM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> >
> > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> >
> > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> Well stated!
As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. "
We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sign
John Godfrey
February 22nd 21, 12:41 AM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> >
> > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> >
> > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> Well stated!
John Godfrey
7:37 PM (1 minute ago)
to
As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. "
We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing as not real) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sigh
Mike Carris[_2_]
February 22nd 21, 01:11 AM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 5:41:13 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> > >
> > > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> > >
> > > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> > Well stated!
> John Godfrey
> 7:37 PM (1 minute ago)
> to
> As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
> last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death.. "
> We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing as not real) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sigh
I was never really worried about getting sick with the Sars 2 virus, although I did get tested once because my wife came in contact with infected clients through her work as did my son, who lives at home. I recently received both Pfizer vaccines. The second one gave me mild to moderate flu syptoms for 3 days or so. A physician friend works in the ICU at the local University Hospital ICU ward, and it has been a horror show for her. I think it is wise to get vaccinated to speed up the herd immunity, if not to protect yourself.
February 22nd 21, 03:44 AM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 8:11:14 PM UTC-5, Mike Carris wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 5:41:13 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > > > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> > > >
> > > > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> > > >
> > > > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> > > Well stated!
> > John Godfrey
> > 7:37 PM (1 minute ago)
> > to
> > As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
> > last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. "
> > We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing as not real) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sigh
> I was never really worried about getting sick with the Sars 2 virus, although I did get tested once because my wife came in contact with infected clients through her work as did my son, who lives at home. I recently received both Pfizer vaccines. The second one gave me mild to moderate flu syptoms for 3 days or so. A physician friend works in the ICU at the local University Hospital ICU ward, and it has been a horror show for her. I think it is wise to get vaccinated to speed up the herd immunity, if not to protect yourself.
I also have been concerned, because the numbers speak for themselves lets face it, Florida has been and still is a hotbed. The numbers seem to go up and down like an OLC trace. After 40 years my wife basically walked away from the dental office, we both felt concerned about the possibility of infection. Taking the jab was and is the only logical thing to do that can provide some degree of protection. Am I still concerned, yes, has this pandemic altered most everyone's lives, yes.
After my first jab I did have an ich that I feel was associated with the vaccine, after speaking with my neighbor he stated that he had the same type reaction that lasted for about three days. I am set to get my second jab on March 6th, guess I will be expecting some type of reaction as well, but I also hope that it provides a bigger degree of protection.
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
February 22nd 21, 04:14 AM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:44:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 8:11:14 PM UTC-5, Mike Carris wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 5:41:13 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > > > > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> > > > >
> > > > > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> > > > Well stated!
> > > John Godfrey
> > > 7:37 PM (1 minute ago)
> > > to
> > > As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
> > > last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. "
> > > We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing as not real) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sigh
> > I was never really worried about getting sick with the Sars 2 virus, although I did get tested once because my wife came in contact with infected clients through her work as did my son, who lives at home. I recently received both Pfizer vaccines. The second one gave me mild to moderate flu syptoms for 3 days or so. A physician friend works in the ICU at the local University Hospital ICU ward, and it has been a horror show for her. I think it is wise to get vaccinated to speed up the herd immunity, if not to protect yourself.
> I also have been concerned, because the numbers speak for themselves lets face it, Florida has been and still is a hotbed. The numbers seem to go up and down like an OLC trace. After 40 years my wife basically walked away from the dental office, we both felt concerned about the possibility of infection. Taking the jab was and is the only logical thing to do that can provide some degree of protection. Am I still concerned, yes, has this pandemic altered most everyone's lives, yes.
> After my first jab I did have an ich that I feel was associated with the vaccine, after speaking with my neighbor he stated that he had the same type reaction that lasted for about three days. I am set to get my second jab on March 6th, guess I will be expecting some type of reaction as well, but I also hope that it provides a bigger degree of protection.
Bob why do you believe the numbers when so much related to cov-aids has been dishonest? Might they not be trying to rule you with fear? Where is the logic of taking an unproven genetic modification treatment? Does anyone prefer GMO food? So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
February 22nd 21, 12:54 PM
On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 11:14:43 PM UTC-5, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:44:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 8:11:14 PM UTC-5, Mike Carris wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 5:41:13 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > > > > > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> > > > > Well stated!
> > > > John Godfrey
> > > > 7:37 PM (1 minute ago)
> > > > to
> > > > As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
> > > > last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. "
> > > > We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing as not real) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sigh
> > > I was never really worried about getting sick with the Sars 2 virus, although I did get tested once because my wife came in contact with infected clients through her work as did my son, who lives at home. I recently received both Pfizer vaccines. The second one gave me mild to moderate flu syptoms for 3 days or so. A physician friend works in the ICU at the local University Hospital ICU ward, and it has been a horror show for her. I think it is wise to get vaccinated to speed up the herd immunity, if not to protect yourself.
> > I also have been concerned, because the numbers speak for themselves lets face it, Florida has been and still is a hotbed. The numbers seem to go up and down like an OLC trace. After 40 years my wife basically walked away from the dental office, we both felt concerned about the possibility of infection. Taking the jab was and is the only logical thing to do that can provide some degree of protection. Am I still concerned, yes, has this pandemic altered most everyone's lives, yes.
> > After my first jab I did have an ich that I feel was associated with the vaccine, after speaking with my neighbor he stated that he had the same type reaction that lasted for about three days. I am set to get my second jab on March 6th, guess I will be expecting some type of reaction as well, but I also hope that it provides a bigger degree of protection.
> Bob why do you believe the numbers when so much related to cov-aids has been dishonest? Might they not be trying to rule you with fear? Where is the logic of taking an unproven genetic modification treatment? Does anyone prefer GMO food? So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
Gregg, I thought long and hard prior to getting the jab, I did lots of research about RNA, I do understand the risk. At this stage of life what do we have to fear except fear itself. I had a long discussion with my DR'S prior to taking the jab and after those discussions decided to go forward. My system has been compromised because of four cancer surgeries during the last 15 months. I am doing great, but with a weakened system I doubt that I could survive a bad case of COVID. So, you roll the dice, take the jab and understand what the end result may or may not be, not being like one of those motor glider guys and gals, I do not have a motor to get me out of life threatening trouble, rather, it is what it is.
I don't know about you, but I took the Salt Polio Vaccine as a young kid, that vaccine was as controversial as any vaccine ever developed, yet it saved many people from that terrible disease. Yes, the numbers have been skewed, only for political reasons and that in and of itself is a huge problem.
Take care and hopefully flying your sailplane will give all of us a venue to relax and get back to what we enjoy the most. Bob
andy l
February 22nd 21, 01:35 PM
On Monday, 22 February 2021 at 04:14:43 UTC, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> Bob why do you believe the numbers when so much related to cov-aids has been dishonest? Might they not be trying to rule you with fear? Where is the logic of taking an unproven genetic modification treatment? Does anyone prefer GMO food? So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
You seem to be someone trying to promote denial and fear.
At the time of one of my previous posts on here I was watching a documentary about the first two months of the virus in the USA. Trump was predicting back to normal by [last] Easter, someone in a medical management position in New York was being asked advice about ordering more wood for coffins, and someone from the gun lobby was saying the USA is the only country in the world which puts individual liberty before the state.
John Godfrey
February 22nd 21, 01:36 PM
On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 7:54:25 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 11:14:43 PM UTC-5, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 10:44:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 8:11:14 PM UTC-5, Mike Carris wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 5:41:13 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:53:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:07:46 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> > > > > > > President Franklin Delano Roosevelt famously declared, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How naïve. If he had only realized how fear could be such a useful tool for those in power. Merely by promoting fear, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be tossed in the trash. The precedent has been set so that in the future, the citizenry can be ordered to behave like sheep, with the most sheep-ish recruited to chastise, shame and otherwise finger-wag the rest of us into compliance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Independence Day" will now only be referred to as "July 4." However, the anniversary of the date the Government declared an emergency for a virus with a 99.8% SURVIVAL rate will be hereafter "celebrated" as "Dependence Day," with festivities canceled and all citizens ordered to spend 24 hours in a Styrofoam box with CNN or MSNBC on the tube. Failure to observe this "holiday" will result in having your work declared non-essential and your "emergency benefits" curtailed.
> > > > > > Well stated!
> > > > > John Godfrey
> > > > > 7:37 PM (1 minute ago)
> > > > > to
> > > > > As Eric said "You are ignoring the excess deaths and unusually large number of hospitalizations during the
> > > > > last 12 months. These can not be explained by misreported causes of death. "
> > > > > We seem to be a very selfish people, looking only at "what is the immediate risk to me personally" and ignoring (or dismissing as not real) the risk to the infrastructure that supports us. Sigh
> > > > I was never really worried about getting sick with the Sars 2 virus, although I did get tested once because my wife came in contact with infected clients through her work as did my son, who lives at home. I recently received both Pfizer vaccines. The second one gave me mild to moderate flu syptoms for 3 days or so. A physician friend works in the ICU at the local University Hospital ICU ward, and it has been a horror show for her. I think it is wise to get vaccinated to speed up the herd immunity, if not to protect yourself.
> > > I also have been concerned, because the numbers speak for themselves lets face it, Florida has been and still is a hotbed. The numbers seem to go up and down like an OLC trace. After 40 years my wife basically walked away from the dental office, we both felt concerned about the possibility of infection. Taking the jab was and is the only logical thing to do that can provide some degree of protection. Am I still concerned, yes, has this pandemic altered most everyone's lives, yes.
> > > After my first jab I did have an ich that I feel was associated with the vaccine, after speaking with my neighbor he stated that he had the same type reaction that lasted for about three days. I am set to get my second jab on March 6th, guess I will be expecting some type of reaction as well, but I also hope that it provides a bigger degree of protection.
> > Bob why do you believe the numbers when so much related to cov-aids has been dishonest? Might they not be trying to rule you with fear? Where is the logic of taking an unproven genetic modification treatment? Does anyone prefer GMO food? So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
> Gregg, I thought long and hard prior to getting the jab, I did lots of research about RNA, I do understand the risk. At this stage of life what do we have to fear except fear itself. I had a long discussion with my DR'S prior to taking the jab and after those discussions decided to go forward. My system has been compromised because of four cancer surgeries during the last 15 months. I am doing great, but with a weakened system I doubt that I could survive a bad case of COVID. So, you roll the dice, take the jab and understand what the end result may or may not be, not being like one of those motor glider guys and gals, I do not have a motor to get me out of life threatening trouble, rather, it is what it is.
> I don't know about you, but I took the Salt Polio Vaccine as a young kid, that vaccine was as controversial as any vaccine ever developed, yet it saved many people from that terrible disease. Yes, the numbers have been skewed, only for political reasons and that in and of itself is a huge problem.
> Take care and hopefully flying your sailplane will give all of us a venue to relax and get back to what we enjoy the most. Bob
Gregg, unless you believe that the raw body count (from any cause) has been forged, all you need to do is look at that number vs what would normally be expected to see that the body count is up by over 450K in the last year. Arguing about which ones are COVID or not is not necessary. There have been no other major disasters that explain that death increase other than the direct and indirect impact of COVID.
RR
February 22nd 21, 02:12 PM
>So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
This seems pretty simple. You can inoculate with live virus (catch covid) or dead virus (get the shot).
Now I understand the mRNA mechanism so let me rephrase. You can have you cellular machinery hijacked to produce harmless spike protein to arm your immune system or you can have your cellular machinery hijacked by live virus to produce more live virus and hopefully arm your immune system before its too late. Your call.
Soartech
February 22nd 21, 05:55 PM
On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 9:12:54 AM UTC-5, RR wrote:
> >So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
> This seems pretty simple. You can inoculate with live virus (catch covid) or dead virus (get the shot).
> Now I understand the mRNA mechanism so let me rephrase. You can have you cellular machinery hijacked to produce harmless spike protein to arm your immune system or you can have your cellular machinery hijacked by live virus to produce more live virus and hopefully arm your immune system before its too late. Your call.
RR, A well put description of what is happening with the RNA vaccines! Why are so many people here not following science? Soaring is half science!
Soartech
February 22nd 21, 06:35 PM
FYI, after getting your 2nd vaccine shot some people are experiencing a fever and other symptoms of fighting an infection. This is more common in people under 55, having stronger immune responses, which excludes many of us on this forum. However taking vitamin D3 daily, for at least a week or two before the shot may prevent this from happening. Why? Because vitamin D has been found to modulate the bodies immune response so that it does not make more inflammatory cytokines than are required to fight the virus. Many of the negative effects of any infection are caused by our bodies fighting it. Because we live and work indoors most residents of Europe and North America are vitamin D deficient. Taking vitamin D3 is an inexpensive and easy way to remedy this. Have your level checked during your next blood test. Should be 30 to 70 ng/ml.
Andrzej Kobus
February 22nd 21, 10:06 PM
On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 9:12:54 AM UTC-5, RR wrote:
> >So then why would you GMO yourself with the jab?
> This seems pretty simple. You can inoculate with live virus (catch covid) or dead virus (get the shot).
> Now I understand the mRNA mechanism so let me rephrase. You can have you cellular machinery hijacked to produce harmless spike protein to arm your immune system or you can have your cellular machinery hijacked by live virus to produce more live virus and hopefully arm your immune system before its too late. Your call.
Unless that spike protein production goes into an overdrive, then the game is over.
Mike Carris[_2_]
February 22nd 21, 11:47 PM
On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 11:35:24 AM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
> FYI, after getting your 2nd vaccine shot some people are experiencing a fever and other symptoms of fighting an infection. This is more common in people under 55, having stronger immune responses, which excludes many of us on this forum. However taking vitamin D3 daily, for at least a week or two before the shot may prevent this from happening. Why? Because vitamin D has been found to modulate the bodies immune response so that it does not make more inflammatory cytokines than are required to fight the virus. Many of the negative effects of any infection are caused by our bodies fighting it. Because we live and work indoors most residents of Europe and North America are vitamin D deficient. Taking vitamin D3 is an inexpensive and easy way to remedy this. Have your level checked during your next blood test. Should be 30 to 70 ng/ml.
I'm 73 years young and for the past six or seven months have taken Vitamin D3 daily X 2 the recommended daily requirement, and had side effects from the booster. Some people have side effects with the first shot, some with the booster and some not at all.
Paul B[_2_]
February 23rd 21, 03:28 AM
On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
> > "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> > far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> > that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
> >
> > Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> >>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> >> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> >> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
> >>
> >> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
> >>
> >> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> >> purity and motorgliders :^)
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
> many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
> especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
> deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
> that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.
My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.
You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 23rd 21, 11:20 AM
On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:28:05 -0800, Paul B wrote:
> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
>> > "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million
>> > people (the number vaccinated so far), primarily over 65 and a large
>> > number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few that die
>> > within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
>> >
>> > Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I
>> > wonder why?
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell
>> > wrote:
>> >> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
>> >>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the
>> >>> fake news.
>> >> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t
>> >> think the rooster makes the sun come up, simply because they are
>> >> related in time".
>> >>
>> >> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million
>> >> people (the number vaccinated so far), primarily over 65 and a large
>> >> number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few that die
>> >> within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
>> >>
>> >> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can
>> >> continue to argue about purity and motorgliders :^)
>> >> --
>> >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>> >> email me)
>> >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-
the-guide-1
>> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to
>> Covid-19". But, Covid caused so many deaths, it altered the normal
>> death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths", especially in
>> the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe
>> normal deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these
>> excess deaths, and also the fact that hospitals are being overwhelmed
>> by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>> email me)
>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-
guide-1
>
> I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and
> hasten an impeding death of others.
>
> My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when
> ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have
> had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification.
> If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the
> age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
> I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I
> even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were
> developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do
> a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of
> testing, corners were cut.
>
> You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also,
> as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated.
> However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a
> number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to
> examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of
> the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
>
> Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website
> is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of
> deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the
> the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to
> that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the
> likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess
> death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
Different statisticians use different criteria is all.
IIRC in the US, if the death certificate lists COVID at all, then its
counted as a COVID death.
In the UK the death is counted as due to COVID if the deceased tested
positive for COVID within the last 28 days. This looks a little more
specific to me, a non-statician, but still not a cast-iron guarantee that
the death was in fact due to COVID: IOW its not clear whether somebody
who'd tested positive but symptomless and got splatted by a drunk driver
a week later would be included in the COVID death count. You'd think
they's be counted as a road death but one never knows...
Bottom line: national statistics are what your Office Of National
Statistics thinks are right. For everything.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Mark Mocho
February 23rd 21, 02:57 PM
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" (Mark Twain) is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 23rd 21, 04:00 PM
On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 06:57:16 -0800, Mark Mocho wrote:
> "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" (Mark Twain) is a phrase describing
> the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to
> bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt
> statistics used to prove an opponent's point.
Mark Twain is one of my heroes, along with Stephen Leacock, whose
"Boarding-house Geometry" is a gem.
Otherwise put: don't trust statistics unless you know sample size,
selection criteria and what smoothing algorithm, if any, was applied.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 23rd 21, 04:00 PM
On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 06:57:16 -0800, Mark Mocho wrote:
> "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" (Mark Twain) is a phrase describing
> the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to
> bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt
> statistics used to prove an opponent's point.
Mark Twain is one of my heroes, along with Stephen Leacock, whose
"Boarding-house Geometry" is a gem.
Otherwise put: don't trust statistics unless you know sample size,
selection criteria and what smoothing algorithm, if any, was applied.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 23rd 21, 04:51 PM
Paul B wrote on 2/22/2021 7:28 PM:
> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
>>> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
>>>
>>> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>>>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
>>>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
>>>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we dont think the rooster makes the
>>>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
>>>>
>>>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
>>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
>>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
>>>>
>>>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
>>>> purity and motorgliders :^)
>>>> --
>>>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>>>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
>> many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
>> especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
>> deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
>> that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>
> I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.
>
> My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
> I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.
>
> You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
>
> Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
I do not see the death determination being so different. Here in Washington State, death
attribution to Covid-19 requires a positive test and symptoms, and the reports include
information on comorbidities. My understanding is even more care is used to determine the cause
of deaths following vaccination, but even if you attribute all of them to the vaccine, it is
still a much smaller rate than deaths from infection.
The excess deaths are so great, we are not faced with teasing out a weak signal from a noisy
data set. There are times the excess deaths exceeded 30%! We can discuss the best way to
determine what the "normal" death rate should be, but that is a refinement that doesn't change
the big picture: people are dying at a high rate from Covid-19, and not from vaccinations.
This article shows how the excess deaths for the US are easily seen the in the data, as of
2/17/2021:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
February 23rd 21, 10:00 PM
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 11:51:26 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Paul B wrote on 2/22/2021 7:28 PM:
> > On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
> >>> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
> >>>
> >>> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >>>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> >>>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> >>>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> >>>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
> >>>>
> >>>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> >>>> purity and motorgliders :^)
> >>>> --
> >>>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >>>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
> >> many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
> >> especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
> >> deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
> >> that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >
> > I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.
> >
> > My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
> > I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.
> >
> > You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
> >
> > Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
> I do not see the death determination being so different. Here in Washington State, death
> attribution to Covid-19 requires a positive test and symptoms, and the reports include
> information on comorbidities. My understanding is even more care is used to determine the cause
> of deaths following vaccination, but even if you attribute all of them to the vaccine, it is
> still a much smaller rate than deaths from infection.
>
> The excess deaths are so great, we are not faced with teasing out a weak signal from a noisy
> data set. There are times the excess deaths exceeded 30%! We can discuss the best way to
> determine what the "normal" death rate should be, but that is a refinement that doesn't change
> the big picture: people are dying at a high rate from Covid-19, and not from vaccinations.
>
> This article shows how the excess deaths for the US are easily seen the in the data, as of
> 2/17/2021:
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about, we are all going to die anyway.
Paul B[_2_]
February 24th 21, 01:42 PM
On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 2:51:26 am UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Paul B wrote on 2/22/2021 7:28 PM:
> > On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
> >>> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
> >>>
> >>> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >>>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> >>>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> >>>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> >>>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
> >>>>
> >>>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> >>>> purity and motorgliders :^)
> >>>> --
> >>>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >>>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
> >> many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
> >> especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
> >> deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
> >> that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >
> > I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.
> >
> > My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
> > I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.
> >
> > You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
> >
> > Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
> I do not see the death determination being so different. Here in Washington State, death
> attribution to Covid-19 requires a positive test and symptoms, and the reports include
> information on comorbidities. My understanding is even more care is used to determine the cause
> of deaths following vaccination, but even if you attribute all of them to the vaccine, it is
> still a much smaller rate than deaths from infection.
>
> The excess deaths are so great, we are not faced with teasing out a weak signal from a noisy
> data set. There are times the excess deaths exceeded 30%! We can discuss the best way to
> determine what the "normal" death rate should be, but that is a refinement that doesn't change
> the big picture: people are dying at a high rate from Covid-19, and not from vaccinations.
>
> This article shows how the excess deaths for the US are easily seen the in the data, as of
> 2/17/2021:
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
I am in complete agreement that total deaths will remove distractions of cause from the discussion.
However excess deaths have a problem with "excess to what". The CDC methodology published here https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
States that they have averaged the last 5 years of weekly data to get the base. However, if you look at the death rates for those years you will see almost a perfectly linear increase year on year. So extrapolation may have been a better way to get to the true expected base. That would reduce the excess deaths by some 100000.
Anyway, I liked the the graph for NY, from the NYT. Kill them of early and have an easy time from then on :)
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
February 27th 21, 08:19 PM
Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 27th 21, 09:26 PM
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
> https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-
on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say about
COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East River going
cheap....
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
February 27th 21, 09:40 PM
On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:26:37 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>
> > Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
> > https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-
> on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
> If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say about
> COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East River going
> cheap....
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Article links to the gov't source for their claims. Is the gov't wrong? Some truth hungry provaxxer needs to go check that the article didn't misreport the gov't's reports while they can still see. Funny how people attack the messenger for passing on government vaccine data.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 27th 21, 10:24 PM
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 13:40:06 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:26:37 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>>
>> > Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
>> > https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-
report-
>> on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
>> If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say
>> about COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East
>> River going cheap....
>> --
>> Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
> Article links to the gov't source for their claims. Is the gov't wrong?
> Some truth hungry provaxxer needs to go check that the article didn't
> misreport the gov't's reports while they can still see. Funny how
> people attack the messenger for passing on government vaccine data.
I've read the references Yellow Card report: did you?
With a bit over 12 million first vaccinations and around 600,000 2nd
shots, it reports some 168 anaphylaxis (severe allergy) reactions, no
proven cases of Bell's Palsy and 403 ADRs (Adverse Drug Reaction). No
other specifically identified side effects were identified, though
apparently the Pfizer vaccine has more reactions to its shots than the
Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine.
There is no mention of any associated blindness and, indeed, scanning the
complete report for 'blind', 'blindness', 'eye', 'optic' and 'visual'
found no hits at all, so it seems that any claims of associated blindness
are purest bull****.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
February 27th 21, 10:40 PM
On Saturday, 27 February 2021 at 22:24:14 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>...
> There is no mention of any associated blindness and, indeed, scanning the
> complete report for 'blind', 'blindness', 'eye', 'optic' and 'visual'
> found no hits at all, so it seems that any claims of associated blindness
> are purest bull****.
I agree, but strangely, in that page, Chrome text search (ctrl/F) reported two hits for "blind" (yes, yes, without the quotes!), but couldn't actually find either!
Clearly, a tool built for trolls!
J.
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
February 27th 21, 10:57 PM
On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:40:09 -0800, wrote:
> On Saturday, 27 February 2021 at 22:24:14 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>...
>> There is no mention of any associated blindness and, indeed, scanning
>> the complete report for 'blind', 'blindness', 'eye', 'optic' and
>> 'visual' found no hits at all, so it seems that any claims of
>> associated blindness are purest bull****.
> I agree, but strangely, in that page, Chrome text search (ctrl/F)
> reported two hits for "blind" (yes, yes, without the quotes!), but
> couldn't actually find either!
> Clearly, a tool built for trolls!
> J.
>
I did discover where those snippets of disease tables came from - there
are appendices associated with both vaccine types that go on for pages
and, as far as I can tell from there preliminary boilerplate, are saying
in effect that 'people visiting a medic after having a vaccination shot
were found to have these conditions' but there is absolutely no
indication whether these were pre-existing conditions, and so not
associated with being vaccinated. Seeing that the main report didn't
mention them, any connection seems unlikely and the association of
blindness with a vaccine, if it exists at all, is very slight at under
1:120,000 or 0.0008 %.
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
February 27th 21, 11:00 PM
Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/27/2021 1:40 PM:
> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:26:37 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>>
>>> Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
>>> https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-
>> on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
>> If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say about
>> COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East River going
>> cheap....
>> --
>> Martin | martin at
>> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
> Article links to the gov't source for their claims. Is the gov't wrong? Some truth hungry provaxxer needs to go check that the article didn't misreport the gov't's reports while they can still see. Funny how people attack the messenger for passing on government vaccine data.
>
>
It's quite reasonable to admonish the messenger when the messenger passes on something to
provoke rather than inform, or perhaps even to misinform. Sometimes it's called "trolling".
--
hEric Greewell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
2G
February 28th 21, 03:53 AM
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 8:51:26 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Paul B wrote on 2/22/2021 7:28 PM:
> > On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
> >>> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
> >>>
> >>> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >>>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> >>>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> >>>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> >>>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
> >>>>
> >>>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> >>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> >>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> >>>> purity and motorgliders :^)
> >>>> --
> >>>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >>>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
> >> many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
> >> especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
> >> deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
> >> that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >
> > I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.
> >
> > My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
> > I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.
> >
> > You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
> >
> > Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
> I do not see the death determination being so different. Here in Washington State, death
> attribution to Covid-19 requires a positive test and symptoms, and the reports include
> information on comorbidities. My understanding is even more care is used to determine the cause
> of deaths following vaccination, but even if you attribute all of them to the vaccine, it is
> still a much smaller rate than deaths from infection.
>
> The excess deaths are so great, we are not faced with teasing out a weak signal from a noisy
> data set. There are times the excess deaths exceeded 30%! We can discuss the best way to
> determine what the "normal" death rate should be, but that is a refinement that doesn't change
> the big picture: people are dying at a high rate from Covid-19, and not from vaccinations.
>
> This article shows how the excess deaths for the US are easily seen the in the data, as of
> 2/17/2021:
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
What I see in that data is that Florida, that never locked down, was tied for 39th in that list. This tells me that lockdowns don't work. Also, excess deaths are due to all extraordinary events, not just COVID. There are apparently side effects (i.e. excess deaths) that are the direct result of lockdowns, which explains why Florida is so far down the list.
Tom
February 28th 21, 07:55 AM
On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 10:53:42 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 8:51:26 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > Paul B wrote on 2/22/2021 7:28 PM:
> > > On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 11:10:09 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > >> Paul B wrote on 2/20/2021 9:18 PM:
> > >>> "About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> > >>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> > >>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination."
> > >>>
> > >>> Fully agree, however the same logic was not applied to covid-19, I wonder why?
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>>
> > >>> Paul
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sunday, 21 February 2021 at 2:50:15 pm UTC+10, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > >>>> Gregg Ballou wrote on 2/19/2021 5:30 AM:
> > >>>>> The Vaers data is out there for those that care to look beyond the fake news.
> > >>>> "We all know that the rooster crows before the dawn, but we don’t think the rooster makes the
> > >>>> sun come up, simply because they are related in time".
> > >>>>
> > >>>> About 8000 people die every day. In a population of 56 million people (the number vaccinated so
> > >>>> far), primarily over 65 and a large number that have comorbidities, there will be quite a few
> > >>>> that die within a few days or weeks of the vaccination.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Don't blame the rooster for the sunrise - get vaccinated so we can continue to argue about
> > >>>> purity and motorgliders :^)
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > >>>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> > >> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "logic was not applied to Covid-19". But, Covid caused so
> > >> many deaths, it altered the normal death rate enough to be be noticed; ie, "excess deaths",
> > >> especially in the retirement and nursing homes in the beginning. People that believe normal
> > >> deaths are being misreported as Covid cases are ignoring these excess deaths, and also the fact
> > >> that hospitals are being overwhelmed by Covid deaths, not the usual causes.
> > >> --
> > >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> > >
> > > I am not disputing that the fact Covid-19 may caused death of some and hasten an impeding death of others.
> > >
> > > My point was simply that different criteria are being used when when ascribing causality. As an example, if someone dies at 90 and may have had covid-19, it is counted as a covid-19 death without qualification. If the same person died following an Covid-19 injection, suddenly, the age and potential comorbidities are taken into account.
> > > I am not an antivaxxer I have had all the shots, as did my children. I even partake in the flu shot. However none of these vaccines were developed at this speed and had so little testing. You simply cannot do a multi year longitudinal study in ten months. So clearly in terms of testing, corners were cut.
> > >
> > > You mention the excess deaths, and I am looking at these numbers also, as I feel that those numbers should be least able to be manipulated. However the picture is not that clear. For one, it will probably be a number of years before the true numbers are in and potentially longer to examine the exces deaths that happened in subsequent years because of the reaction to covid-19, not because of it.
> > >
> > > Finally, the immediate projection of excess death from the CDC website is also problematic. The US had a near linear increase in the number of deaths per 1000 over the last 5 years. Yet the CDC chose to average the the number of deaths over the last 5 years and then add some 100000 to that number for "slow reporting". If they chose to extrapolate the likely deaths, you would have an entirely different numbers of excess death. The results and methodology is on CDC website.
> > I do not see the death determination being so different. Here in Washington State, death
> > attribution to Covid-19 requires a positive test and symptoms, and the reports include
> > information on comorbidities. My understanding is even more care is used to determine the cause
> > of deaths following vaccination, but even if you attribute all of them to the vaccine, it is
> > still a much smaller rate than deaths from infection.
> >
> > The excess deaths are so great, we are not faced with teasing out a weak signal from a noisy
> > data set. There are times the excess deaths exceeded 30%! We can discuss the best way to
> > determine what the "normal" death rate should be, but that is a refinement that doesn't change
> > the big picture: people are dying at a high rate from Covid-19, and not from vaccinations.
> >
> > This article shows how the excess deaths for the US are easily seen the in the data, as of
> > 2/17/2021:
> >
> > https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> What I see in that data is that Florida, that never locked down, was tied for 39th in that list. This tells me that lockdowns don't work. Also, excess deaths are due to all extraordinary events, not just COVID. There are apparently side effects (i.e. excess deaths) that are the direct result of lockdowns, which explains why Florida is so far down the list.
>
> Tom
Florida had more of a lockdown than you may realize, although not like some states. In the beginning of the pandemic there were mandatory closings of certain types of businesses, bars, barber shops, beauty parlors, and many others including some dental services were affected. Florida did in fact become a hotbed for the virus, simply because of the people coming into the state from other areas. At one point Florida was leading the nation on new COVID cases.
Our glider club almost came to a standstill and still to this day has not recovered back to 100%. We do in fact have an older population in the club, I guess that simply explains the limited participation, the disease was having a bigger effect on our demographics than any other. Yes, there were those deaths contributed to COVID that were NOT COVID deaths, being killed in a motorcycle accident but yet testing positive for COVID should not have counted, but it did.
Trying to get a vaccination in Florida has been difficult to say the least, and yes it is getting a lot better. People were flocking to Florida from all over the nation and other countries to get a COVID vaccination, that nightmare was quickly corrected and proof of Florida residency was requested, but as always there were those that tricked the system. After several weeks of day and night of trying to sign up for a vaccination I was successful and had to travel two plus hours to get my first jab, next Saturday will be my second jab.
Things are returning toward normality but no where near pre COVID levels, restaurants, bars, healthcare facilities, and most every business has changed their person to person interactions. We still wear mask even at the glider club, although it is not mandatory, but people gather outside and stay safe distances away.
So, I ask this question once again, just what have we learned from all this?
We learned that COVID was used as a political ploy, which resulted in our country electing a guy who cannot remember where he is from day to day.
Well, at least the soaring weather is getting better here in Florida, actually it is about time. Bob, Vero Beach, Florida
andy l
February 28th 21, 12:45 PM
On Saturday, 27 February 2021 at 21:40:08 UTC, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:26:37 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> >
> > > Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
> > > https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-
> > on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
> > If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say about
> > COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East River going
> > cheap....
> > --
> > Martin | martin at
> > Gregorie | gregorie dot org
> Article links to the gov't source for their claims. Is the gov't wrong? Some truth hungry provaxxer needs to go check that the article didn't misreport the gov't's reports while they can still see. Funny how people attack the messenger for passing on government vaccine data.
Something on the website of the Royal National Institute for the Blind says that over 24,000 new people in the UK are given a certificate of visual impairment each year
That averages about 65 a day
So, using a mixture of statistics and pure chance, how many would you expect to see in a randomly chosen sample group that increases in size from zero to 20 million in about 60 days? Maybe 500-600?
Even if the numbers reported in the documents you are referring to come out smaller than that, it doesn't mean the vaccines reduce the natural odds. Note the qualifying comment that these are only reports that people sent in, they wondered if they were affected, it doesn't actually prove a connection.
Dan Marotta
February 28th 21, 06:04 PM
I think I've been affected by the vaccine. I'm starting to think Nancy
Pelosi is attractive. Maybe I'll rip out my eyes and blame my blindness
on the vaccine...
Dan
5J
On 2/28/21 5:45 AM, andy l wrote:
> On Saturday, 27 February 2021 at 21:40:08 UTC, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:26:37 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
>>>
>>>> Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
>>>> https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-
>>> on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
>>> If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say about
>>> COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East River going
>>> cheap....
>>> --
>>> Martin | martin at
>>> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>> Article links to the gov't source for their claims. Is the gov't wrong? Some truth hungry provaxxer needs to go check that the article didn't misreport the gov't's reports while they can still see. Funny how people attack the messenger for passing on government vaccine data.
>
> Something on the website of the Royal National Institute for the Blind says that over 24,000 new people in the UK are given a certificate of visual impairment each year
>
> That averages about 65 a day
>
> So, using a mixture of statistics and pure chance, how many would you expect to see in a randomly chosen sample group that increases in size from zero to 20 million in about 60 days? Maybe 500-600?
>
> Even if the numbers reported in the documents you are referring to come out smaller than that, it doesn't mean the vaccines reduce the natural odds. Note the qualifying comment that these are only reports that people sent in, they wondered if they were affected, it doesn't actually prove a connection.
>
> In the old days some people used to say that wanking causes blindness.
>
February 28th 21, 09:26 PM
On Sunday, February 28, 2021 at 1:04:37 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I think I've been affected by the vaccine. I'm starting to think Nancy
> Pelosi is attractive. Maybe I'll rip out my eyes and blame my blindness
> on the vaccine...
>
> Dan
> 5J
> On 2/28/21 5:45 AM, andy l wrote:
> > On Saturday, 27 February 2021 at 21:40:08 UTC, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> >> On Saturday, February 27, 2021 at 4:26:37 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:19:35 -0800, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Blindness being reported as a vaccine side effect
> >>>> https://principia-scientific.com/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-
> >>> on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/
> >>> If you believe anything that bunch of climate sceptics have to say about
> >>> COVID vaccines, I have this really nice bridge over the East River going
> >>> cheap....
> >>> --
> >>> Martin | martin at
> >>> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
> >> Article links to the gov't source for their claims. Is the gov't wrong? Some truth hungry provaxxer needs to go check that the article didn't misreport the gov't's reports while they can still see. Funny how people attack the messenger for passing on government vaccine data.
> >
> > Something on the website of the Royal National Institute for the Blind says that over 24,000 new people in the UK are given a certificate of visual impairment each year
> >
> > That averages about 65 a day
> >
> > So, using a mixture of statistics and pure chance, how many would you expect to see in a randomly chosen sample group that increases in size from zero to 20 million in about 60 days? Maybe 500-600?
> >
> > Even if the numbers reported in the documents you are referring to come out smaller than that, it doesn't mean the vaccines reduce the natural odds. Note the qualifying comment that these are only reports that people sent in, they wondered if they were affected, it doesn't actually prove a connection.
> >
> > In the old days some people used to say that wanking causes blindness.
> >
Dan, get help quick! Next thing you know you will think that AOC is intelligent.
Gregg Ballou[_2_]
March 1st 21, 02:44 PM
“We conclude” they wrote, “that the Pfizer vaccines, for the elderly, killed during the 5-week vaccination period about 40 times more people than the disease itself would have killed, and about 260 times more people than the disease among the younger age class.”
https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/hot-off-the-press-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-admits-israel-is-the-worlds-lab/
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
March 1st 21, 03:11 PM
Gregg Ballou wrote on 3/1/2021 6:44 AM:
> We conclude they wrote, that the Pfizer vaccines, for the elderly, killed during the 5-week vaccination period about 40 times more people than the disease itself would have killed, and about 260 times more people than the disease among the younger age class.
> https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/hot-off-the-press-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-admits-israel-is-the-worlds-lab/
>
"Ron Keeva Unz (born September 20, 1961) is the editor-in-chief and publisher of The Unz
Review, a website that promotes anti-semitism, Holocaust denial, conspiracy theories, and white
supremacist material. In addition to Unz's own writings, the site has hosted pieces by white
supremacist Jared Taylor, among others."
Your concerns for our vaccination safety would be better served by looking at the US
experience, where 10 times as many have been vaccinated than in Israel.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
andy l
March 1st 21, 07:10 PM
On Monday, 1 March 2021 at 14:44:08 UTC, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> “We conclude” they wrote, “that the Pfizer vaccines, for the elderly, killed during the 5-week vaccination period about 40 times more people than the disease itself would have killed, and about 260 times more people than the disease among the younger age class.”
> https://www.unz.com/gatzmon/hot-off-the-press-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-admits-israel-is-the-worlds-lab/
Exactly what is it about these lies and distortion that thrill you?
In the middle of that it says that after 2 months of the vaccine being prioritised to old people first, only 5.5% of all cases are in older people.
Most reasonable people would see recorded 80 to 90% reduction of infections, of hospital admissions, and of risk of death as success.
Yes, Israel negotiated a deal they'd get faster rate of supply in return for more feedback on results. Some might see that as a civil liberties issue, but presumably personal identities are filtered out of the generalised figures. Anyway, that's an issue for their country, not the USA and its minority of nutty paranoids.
I notice you've made no reply at all to my deconstruction of your previous bull****.
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