Tow Costs

[Slick]

What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to 3k.
We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.



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[Nick Gilbert]

I am paying $35 to 2000ft

Nick

"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
> 3k.
> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>
>
>
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[goneill]

>I am paying $35 to 2000ft
You should look at a winch system ,our costs are under $4 and club
charges $10 and makes more than an aerotow operation simply
because the margins are so high.
gary
"Nick Gilbert" > wrote in message
...
>I am paying $35 to 2000ft
>
> Nick
>
> "Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
>> 3k.
>> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>>
>>
>>
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>

[Mal.com]

35.00 AUD
Australia Dollars = 26.9906 USD
United States Dollars


I am sure the jets and powered traffic are happy without the fear of being
sawn in half by winch wire.

[Marian Aldenhövel]

Hi,

> I am sure the jets and powered traffic are happy without the fear of being
> sawn in half by winch wire.

No jets at my home field, but we get along fine with other power traffic,
including lots of helicopters (military), banner towing and even skydiving.
At peak times three winches are in operation with two wires each, each
belonging to a different club.

It really is a matter of coordination.

Two answer the original question: We pay 3EUR for about 500m AGL.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn. +49 228 624013.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"What did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney
Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest
sweeping majestically across the prairie!" Basil Fawlty

[Ray Lovinggood]

1,000': US $13.00
2,000': US $23.00
3,000': US $33.00

Our club has about 40 members. Fees are $200 initiation
and $420/year dues. (Discounts for families and students)
Also, members pay rental on gliders.
L-13: $12/hour
L-33 and G-103: $18/hour
HpH 304C: $40/hour

Towplane is a 180 h.p. Varga Kachina.

Instruction is free.

The tow fees just increased after remaining the same
for about eight years, or longer. Old fees were:
1,000': US $13.00
2,000': US $18.00
3,000': US $23.00

We operate on a public use airport where ground launching
would probably not be allowed :-(

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 08:00 03 April 2005, Slick wrote:
>What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's
>$17 to 2k and $22 to 3k.
>We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees,
>only club dues.
>
>
>
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[Slick]

WHat is your discounts for student?
"Ray Lovinggood" > wrote in message
...
> 1,000': US $13.00
> 2,000': US $23.00
> 3,000': US $33.00
>
> Our club has about 40 members. Fees are $200 initiation
> and $420/year dues. (Discounts for families and students)
> Also, members pay rental on gliders.
> L-13: $12/hour
> L-33 and G-103: $18/hour
> HpH 304C: $40/hour
>
> Towplane is a 180 h.p. Varga Kachina.
>
> Instruction is free.
>
> The tow fees just increased after remaining the same
> for about eight years, or longer. Old fees were:
> 1,000': US $13.00
> 2,000': US $18.00
> 3,000': US $23.00
>
> We operate on a public use airport where ground launching
> would probably not be allowed :-(
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>
> At 08:00 03 April 2005, Slick wrote:
> >What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's
> >$17 to 2k and $22 to 3k.
> >We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees,
> >only club dues.
> >
> >
> >
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> >the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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> >via Encryption =----
> >
>
>
>



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[Stewart Kissel]

Out of curiousity...how much is being saved into the
engine rebuild fund? And how many hours are you forecasting
for the engine? A general maintanence fund as well?

[Ray Lovinggood]

I think I made a mistake on montly fees. Our web page,
www.ncsoaring.org, shows a monthly fee of $30, not
$35. Or, maybe they are just charging ME $35?? :-)

Discounts for students:
Initiation fee is $150 rather than $200.
If the student is a son or daughter of a 'regular'
member, the student's initiation fee is $100 rather
than $200.

Monthly fees are $15 rather than $30.

No discount on glider fee or towplane fee.

And all members must be SSA members as well.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA



t 14:30 03 April 2005, Slick wrote:
>WHat is your discounts for student?
>'Ray Lovinggood' wrote in message
...
>> 1,000': US $13.00
>> 2,000': US $23.00
>> 3,000': US $33.00
>>
>> Our club has about 40 members. Fees are $200 initiation
>> and $420/year dues. (Discounts for families and students)
>> Also, members pay rental on gliders.
>> L-13: $12/hour
>> L-33 and G-103: $18/hour
>> HpH 304C: $40/hour
>>
>> Towplane is a 180 h.p. Varga Kachina.
>>
>> Instruction is free.
>>
>> The tow fees just increased after remaining the same
>> for about eight years, or longer. Old fees were:
>> 1,000': US $13.00
>> 2,000': US $18.00
>> 3,000': US $23.00
>>
>> We operate on a public use airport where ground launching
>> would probably not be allowed :-(
>>
>> Ray Lovinggood
>> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>>
>> At 08:00 03 April 2005, Slick wrote:
>> >What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's
>> >$17 to 2k and $22 to 3k.
>> >We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees,
>> >only club dues.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure
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>>>in
>> >the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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>> >via Encryption =----
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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[F.L. Whiteley]

"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
3k.
> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>
>
Then I would say your dues may be subsidizing your tows at $2-$3/tow in real
terms, but that depends on your field elevation and business model and
donated work. It's possible you are breaking even or that dues are
structured to do this based on your operating year, size of membership, mix
of private/club gliders, insurance coverage, and any number of other
factors.

The question you need to ask is whether the tow plane is paying its way,
including future repairs and maintenance and replacement, and perhaps
profiting the club. There are different strategies and philosophies for
looking at this. You may arrive a several appropriate answers for 'right'
pricing.

So, the answers may be relatively different, based on the above. FWIW, my
club rate is presently $8US hookup, $0.85US/100ft. That's $16.50US/1000ft,
$25US/2000ft, $33.50US/3000ft. Anything above 9500MSL or aerotow retrieve
is charged by tach hour at $120US/tach hour. On a soarable day locally,
releases are generally 900-1700agl. Winch launches are $8 and usually are
1400-2200agl, depending on winds and length of run used.

Frank

[F.L. Whiteley]

F.L. Whiteley wrote:

> "Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
> 3k.
>> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>>
>>
> Then I would say your dues may be subsidizing your tows at $2-$3/tow in
> real terms, but that depends on your field elevation and business model
> and
> donated work. It's possible you are breaking even or that dues are
> structured to do this based on your operating year, size of membership,
> mix of private/club gliders, insurance coverage, and any number of other
> factors.
>
> The question you need to ask is whether the tow plane is paying its way,
> including future repairs and maintenance and replacement, and perhaps
> profiting the club. There are different strategies and philosophies for
> looking at this. You may arrive a several appropriate answers for 'right'
> pricing.
>
> So, the answers may be relatively different, based on the above. FWIW, my
> club rate is presently $8US hookup, $0.85US/100ft. That's
> $16.50US/1000ft,
> $25US/2000ft, $33.50US/3000ft. Anything above 9500MSL or aerotow retrieve
> is charged by tach hour at $120US/tach hour. On a soarable day locally,
> releases are generally 900-1700agl. Winch launches are $8 and usually are
> 1400-2200agl, depending on winds and length of run used.
>
> Frank
I might add were are at 5500MSL, so tach hour rates from 4000AGL.

These rates were based on Pawnee 235 D. Our 250 conversion will be flying
Monday. Though fuel consumption is expected to rise about 1GPH, I expect
we might also see an additional tow per hour also. Rates will shake out
from there and fuel costs.

Frank

[BTIZ]

at those tow rates it would be hard to believe that there are any funds
being set aside.

BT

"Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
message ...
> Out of curiousity...how much is being saved into the
> engine rebuild fund? And how many hours are you forecasting
> for the engine? A general maintanence fund as well?
>
>
>

[BTIZ]

LVVSA Club operation, not commercial
Pattern tow 1000ft AGL or rope break, $12 ($10 for tow $2 for glider)
Std 2K Tow, $25, plus $5 / 1000ft above 2K

Club glider rates, SGS 2-33, 1-26 $12/hr, Grob 103 $36/hr (20% discount for
10hr pre paid block), LS-4, $30/hr (10% discount for 10hr pre paid block)
(glider charge above for rope breaks or pattern training)

Rates increased last year with fuel cost increase. Fuel was about $2/Gal US,
now approaching $3/gal

BT

"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
> 3k.
> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>
>
>
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[Paul Lynch]

You have to know the details of the operation before you can comment. Our
club, for example, has exceptionally reasonable rates, unfortunately not a
lot of lift :(

Club initiation is $200. Monthly dues are $30. 2-33s are $5 per hour, 1-26
is $7 per hour, L-23 and L-33 are $12 an hour. Here is the incredible
part... Tow rates are
1000 ft. - $11.50
1500 ft. - $13.50
2000 ft. - $15.50
2500 ft. - $17.50
3000 ft. - $19.50

We tow with a Citabria and a Pawnee using autogas. Our "rent" is 3 youth
scholarships per year. We have no employees. Instruction is free. The
monthly dues cover the fixed expenses, the glider and tow fees cover most
everything else including engine reserves and expected maintenance. The
unexpected maintenance is always worrisome. That and the rising price of
gas caused a recent rate increase. The gas situation may cause another
increase in the not too distant future.

Not much point in using a winch, rarely enough lift to climb away. Our
local conditions do make us pretty good "scratchers." You can check us out
at www.tidewatersoaring.org Note that the tow rates just went up, hence the
difference from the web site published rates.

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:NM_3e.3177$ZV5.979@fed1read05...
> at those tow rates it would be hard to believe that there are any funds
> being set aside.
>
> BT
>
> "Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
> message ...
>> Out of curiousity...how much is being saved into the
>> engine rebuild fund? And how many hours are you forecasting
>> for the engine? A general maintanence fund as well?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Slick]

I guess I should have added in our initiation is $500 and our quarterly dues
are $112.50
"Slick" > wrote in message ...
> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
3k.
> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>
>
>
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News==----
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Newsgroups
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[BTIZ]

$500 at the door.. and $450/yr to stay with no rental fees.
So you're paying $450 to fly whether you fly or not.. the low time flyers
are subsidizing the high time flyers.. I'd not complain about those tow
rates..

BT

"Slick" > wrote in message ...
>I guess I should have added in our initiation is $500 and our quarterly
>dues
> are $112.50
> "Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> What is everyone paying for a tow? At our club it's $17 to 2k and $22 to
> 3k.
>> We use a 260hp Pawnee and our club has no rental fees, only club dues.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
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> Newsgroups
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>
>
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[F.L. Whiteley]

Paul Lynch wrote:

> You have to know the details of the operation before you can comment. Our
> club, for example, has exceptionally reasonable rates, unfortunately not
> a
> lot of lift :(
>
> Club initiation is $200. Monthly dues are $30. 2-33s are $5 per hour,
> 1-26
> is $7 per hour, L-23 and L-33 are $12 an hour. Here is the incredible
> part... Tow rates are
> 1000 ft. - $11.50
> 1500 ft. - $13.50
> 2000 ft. - $15.50
> 2500 ft. - $17.50
> 3000 ft. - $19.50
>
> We tow with a Citabria and a Pawnee using autogas. Our "rent" is 3 youth
> scholarships per year. We have no employees. Instruction is free. The>
"BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:NM_3e.3177$ZV5.979@fed1read05...
>> at those tow rates it would be hard to believe that there are any funds
>> being set aside.
>>
>> BT
>>
>> "Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
>> message ...
>>> Out of curiousity...how much is being saved into the
>>> engine rebuild fund? And how many hours are you forecasting
>>> for the engine? A general maintanence fund as well?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

> monthly dues cover the fixed expenses, the glider and tow fees cover most
> everything else including engine reserves and expected maintenance. The
> unexpected maintenance is always worrisome. That and the rising price of
> gas caused a recent rate increase. The gas situation may cause another
> increase in the not too distant future.
>
> Not much point in using a winch, rarely enough lift to climb away. Our
> local conditions do make us pretty good "scratchers." You can check us
> out
> at www.tidewatersoaring.org Note that the tow rates just went up, hence
> the difference from the web site published rates.
>
Weak lift builds character. It's likely somewhat better than you let on.
2-3kts Saturday maybe? Still early in the season. Appears to be some room
off the end of the runway for some extra winch run (with neighbor
cooperation.)

Past couple of seasons, we've bought 100LL cheaper than mogas (2000gal tank.
so we can't claim back the off-road use of the gas tax). Unfortunately,
there's no STC for the Pawnee D airframe for mogas. We pay a hefty tab in
property taxes (though that's solvable with effort, as you have done). We
don't charge an hourly rate for gliders though. That's included in the
dues.

Frank Whiteley
Colorado Soaring Assn.

[Stefan]

BTIZ wrote:

> $500 at the door.. and $450/yr to stay with no rental fees.
> So you're paying $450 to fly whether you fly or not.. the low time flyers
> are subsidizing the high time flyers..

The eternal discussion. The opposite point of view ist that a glider's
value doesn't depend on flight time, it looses value each year whether
it is flown or not. So, with hourly rates, the high timers subsidy the
low timers. In many groups, this problem is permanently discussed.

Back to the topic: We pay about $4.40 per tow minute on a 180 hp Husky
(airborne time of the tow plane counts). With this rate, after deducting
all costs, we make a little profit for the club.

Stefan

[[email protected]]

Our club operation -

$400 initiation

$40/month dues

$12/hr Blanik L13

$6/1000' for the Pawnee tow

We are about a break even operation.

Mike
ASW 15

[BTIZ]

> The eternal discussion.

Agreed

> Back to the topic: We pay about $4.40 per tow minute on a 180 hp Husky
> (airborne time of the tow plane counts). With this rate, after deducting
> all costs, we make a little profit for the club.
> Stefan

4.40 per minute = $264 per hour
on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...

no wonder you're making money.

On the other hand, most of OUR tows are about 500fpm, so a 2K tow would take
4 minutes or about $17.60.. of course that does not count for time spent in
sink or rotor on a strong day.. with zero rate of climb on tow (tow pilot
turning back to the thermal or ridge lift). And then the airplane has to
return, we can get our tow on the ground from a 2K tow in 1:30 to 2 min,
providing now one else is in the traffic pattern.

Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.

So we are about the same..

BT

[BTIZ]

Just about as close to break even as you can get.
Depending on hours flown annually on the Blanik, it sounds like the dues
pays the insurance and reserve funds.
BT

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Our club operation -
>
> $400 initiation
>
> $40/month dues
>
> $12/hr Blanik L13
>
> $6/1000' for the Pawnee tow
>
> We are about a break even operation.
>
> Mike
> ASW 15
>

[Stefan]

BTIZ wrote:

> 4.40 per minute = $264 per hour

Face it, that's what it costs to operate an airplane in Europe. We
charter the same plane for 180 an hour, and brake more or less even with
that. (I think we calculate our costs at 150 an hour, but I'm not sure.
Of course, we're calculating the full cost of operation.)

> on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
> that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...

Wrong calculation. An average tow lasts about 5 to 7 minutes on our
field with average weather. When we have to tow further away, it gets
expensive.

> no wonder you're making money.

Well, we're making money in our own pockets. Same discussion as above:
Somehow we must pay for our modern fleet. (Two LS8s, two LS7s, three
LS4s, two double seaters... with no hourly fees.)

> Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.

But at approximately four times the price.

Stefan

[dumass]

In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO.
Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for
some local soaring.
A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An
aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250
day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the
day.
Club dues are US$100 a month, no rent/hourly charges.
So, consider yourself blessed with your low rates.
John.

[Eric Greenwell]

dumass wrote:
> In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
> tow from a commercial FBO.
> Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for
> some local soaring.
> A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An
> aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250
> day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the
> day.

Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a
self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid
$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped
glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there?

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[[email protected]]

> > In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
> > tow from a commercial FBO.

What airport do you fly gliders out of in the SF Bay Area?

[Marc Ramsey]

wrote:
>>>In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
>>>tow from a commercial FBO.
>
>
> What airport do you fly gliders out of in the SF Bay Area?

Hollister...

[Stewart Kissel]

Eric-

Sorry but gotta call you on that analysis....

1.) Does your analysis include increased insurance
for the self-launcher?

2.) The price difference between comparable pure and
motorized ain't peanuts....some of us only have so
much money up front for a ship.

3.) However I do agree with your basic premise...the
self-launchers that will launch themselves on a Colorado
summer day are $100k+...so I will pay for tows :)



At 23:00 05 April 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>dumass wrote:
>> In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about
>>US$100 for a 5500 ft
>> tow from a commercial FBO.
>> Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can
>>do with lower tows for
>> some local soaring.
>> A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125
>>(6500 ft, 16nm out). An
>> aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125,
>>making it a $250
>> day if the circumstances are not at best or you return
>>too late in the
>> day.
>
>Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider,
>or even a
>self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a
>year would avoid
>$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch
>a sustainer-equipped
>glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there
>any there?
>
>--
>Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
>
>Eric Greenwell
>Washington State
>USA
>

[Jeremy Zawodny]

dumass wrote:
> In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
> tow from a commercial FBO.
> Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for
> some local soaring.
> A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An
> aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250
> day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the
> day.

And that may not include the soon-to-be-announced increases. :-(

Jeremy

[Jeremy Zawodny]

Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a
> self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid
> $4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped
> glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there?

There are a 4-6 motorgliders based at the field depending on the
season--unless I've forgotten a few.

Jeremy

[Eric Greenwell]

Stewart Kissel wrote:
>>Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider,
>>or even a
>>self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a
>>year would avoid
>>$4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch
>>a sustainer-equipped
>>glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there
>>any there?

> Eric-
>
> Sorry but gotta call you on that analysis....
>
> 1.) Does your analysis include increased insurance
> for the self-launcher?

It wasn't a cost analysis, just pointing out that the tow cost left a
lot of room to afford a motorglider. Assuming you fly the same quality
of glider you do now, but with a motor, your additional insurance cost
would likely be less than $800. That's a guess based on the $1600/year I
pay for liability and hull insurance on my ASH 26E. The sustainer would
be even cheaper to insure, of course, though you'd be paying $20 or so
for 1000' tows, which would come to $800 for the year.
>
> 2.) The price difference between comparable pure and
> motorized ain't peanuts....some of us only have so
> much money up front for a ship.

True, but it does vary a lot: for the PIK 20 E, it's about $20,000; for
the DG400 vs DG200, maybe $30,000; and the newer ASH 26 E, DG 800, etc,
maybe $40,000? The least cost would be a sustainer, as the motor
installations are much less expensive. With such expensive tows, I
suspect a sustainer would be no more expensive, overall, than a similar
unpowered glider, though I haven't played with the numbers recently.
Even if it wasn't cheaper, it's self-retrieve capability might allow
soaring experiences that an active XC pilot would gladly pay for.
>
> 3.) However I do agree with your basic premise...the
> self-launchers that will launch themselves on a Colorado
> summer day are $100k+...so I will pay for tows :)

The DG 400 does fine in Colorado, and they aren't near that price yet.
The Apis M is definitely less the $100K, has the same power/weight
ratio, and should also launch well. Maybe the Silent would be suitable,
but I didn't check into it.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[BTIZ]

that explains it.. Europe$$.. and I fear we are quickly heading that
way..... your tow might last 5-7 minutes.. are you counting the return time?

our average tow in good weather is about 2K AGL, at 500fpm climb rate,
that's about 4 minutes.. plus the time to get back (2 min ?).. then the turn
time getting the next glider staged and rolling, we operate off a paved
runway, cannot stage gliders side by side and ready to roll.. some
experienced pilots will stage from the side of the run way and get pulled
out by the tow. Avgr.. 4-5 tows per hour.. that's 12-15 min turn times

BT

"Stefan" > wrote in message
...
> BTIZ wrote:
>
>> 4.40 per minute = $264 per hour
>
> Face it, that's what it costs to operate an airplane in Europe. We charter
> the same plane for 180 an hour, and brake more or less even with that. (I
> think we calculate our costs at 150 an hour, but I'm not sure. Of course,
> we're calculating the full cost of operation.)
>
>> on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day,
>> that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow...
>
> Wrong calculation. An average tow lasts about 5 to 7 minutes on our field
> with average weather. When we have to tow further away, it gets expensive.
>
>> no wonder you're making money.
>
> Well, we're making money in our own pockets. Same discussion as above:
> Somehow we must pay for our modern fleet. (Two LS8s, two LS7s, three LS4s,
> two double seaters... with no hourly fees.)
>
>> Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540.
>
> But at approximately four times the price.
>
> Stefan

[Stefan]

BTIZ wrote:

> way..... your tow might last 5-7 minutes.. are you counting the return time?

We pay airborne time of the tug (take off to touch down). Another
eternal discussion: So the cost of the tow depends on the tug pilot?
Yes, it does. And the glider pilot pays for a go around? Yes, he does.
We believe that it averages out over a season.

> our average tow in good weather is about 2K AGL, at 500fpm climb rate,
> that's about 4 minutes.. plus the time to get back (2 min ?).. then

Yes, that's about it. The glider pilot usually releases somewhere
between 2k and 3k AGL. Depends on the weather, of course. (The shortest
tow I've ever made was 3 minutes! Released at 1000 ft. But this was an
exceptionally good day.)

Unfortuately, our geografic situation is such that we cannot reliably
find lift from the winch. This would make flying considerably cheaper.
(And more fun! Hell, I do love those winch launches!)

Stefan