Re: Record height for a winch launch?

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

New people always ask about release altitudes. The more relevant question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain proficiency through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the guy doing pattern work in a 172 how high he got?

For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
Nick
T

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 11:15:34 -0700, Nick Kennedy wrote:

> For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
> If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to get
> high enough to have a good chance to get away.
> Nick T
>
On a reasonable day 1400 is enough and less good days typically just take
a bit longer to get going. Occasionally you get lucky too. A year or two
back I took a launch around lunchtime, which I abandoned at 1000 ft due
to a sudden overspeed. Thought it might be a thermal, so whipped the
wheel up, hung a 180 and came straight back down the middle of the
runway. Met it at 900ft - a very small tight thermal that immediately
showed 5-6 kts up. Got my Libelle nice and tight in it and noticed the
averager showing 13 kts as I went through 3500. Unfortunately I had to
leave at 4700 or so because we're under under the outer shelf of
Stanstead CTR and its base is 5500.

Dunno if you have the sort of odd conditions we sometimes get, but there
are times on a calm day when there's very little lift under 1800-2000, a
nasty trap if you'd towed to 2500 and didn't notice the dead lower
regions, but by starting from a winch launch to 1400 I'll certainly know
if its that sort of day.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[AS]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> New people always ask about release altitudes. The more relevant question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain proficiency through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the guy doing pattern work in a 172 how high he got?
>
> For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
> If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
> Nick
> T

I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered a rope break at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the audacity to climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly known to be associated with winching!

Uli
'AS'

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:53:52 -0700, AS wrote:

> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
>> New people always ask about release altitudes. The more relevant
>> question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain proficiency
>> through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the guy
>> doing pattern work in a 172 how high he got?
>>
>> For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
>> If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to
>> get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
>> Nick T
>
> I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered a rope break
> at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the audacity
> to climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly known to
> be associated with winching!
>
I'd do the same if in the right circumstances, as would any of our
pilots. Besides, high key for starting a circuit from the winch end of
our airfield is 700 ft, so on a good day the chance of sniffing out a
bump from 1000 ft is quite good.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[[email protected]]

So not my story but one of our pilots was giving a winch ride to a elderly woman ( 86 or so) first flight ever, when we had a wire break at 800 feet. It was a resonable day with 4-5 knot thermals, and he says out loud "I think I can save it" and she says "do the best you can". Well he managed to do a climb to 3-4k agl and they had a hour flight before landing. She exclaimed after landing She was glad she didnt die after that! Its all about your mindset and syntax 😝😝😝

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 5:53:55 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> > New people always ask about release altitudes. The more relevant question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain proficiency through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the guy doing pattern work in a 172 how high he got?
> >
> > For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
> > If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
> > Nick
> > T
>
> I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered a rope break at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the audacity to climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly known to be associated with winching!
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

Uli, you can do the same from an aero-tow, just go ask our club tow pilots. Sometimes I get questions from them like "Why are you still hangin' on, what's wrong with you - at 1,600'.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 11:00:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 5:53:55 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> > On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> > > New people always ask about release altitudes. The more relevant question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain proficiency through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the guy doing pattern work in a 172 how high he got?
> > >
> > > For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
> > > If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
> > > Nick
> > > T
> >
> > I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered a rope break at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the audacity to climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly known to be associated with winching!
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
>
> Uli, you can do the same from an aero-tow, just go ask our club tow pilots. Sometimes I get questions from them like "Why are you still hangin' on, what's wrong with you - at 1,600'.

[Ventus_a]

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
New people always ask about release altitudes. The more relevant question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain proficiency through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the guy doing pattern work in a 172 how high he got?

For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very important.
If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring, you want to get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
Nick
T

I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered a rope break at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the audacity to climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly known to be associated with winching!

Uli
'AS'

Hi Uli

Could you elaborate on the supposedly broken rules so we can learn more re winch launching?

TIA
Colin

[Dave Walsh[_2_]]

At 21:53 19 April 2020, wrote:
>On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 11:00:52 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
>> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 5:53:55 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
>> > On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick
Kennedy wrote:
>> > > New people always ask about release altitudes. The
more relevant
>question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain
proficiency
>through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the
guy doing
>pattern work in a 172 how high he got?
>> > >
>> > > For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very
>important.
>> > > If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring,
you want to
>get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
>> > > Nick
>> > > T
>> >
>> > I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered
a rope break
>at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the
audacity to
>climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly
known to be
>associated with winching!

I recall way back in history that, given enough wind, the pilot
would be winched to the maximum height then the winch driver
would very slowly let out cable with the glider still attached. With
the cable fully out the winch driver then applied power and a
"second" climb followed. Never witnessed this but was told it
happened in the UK back in the '60s. Anyone remember hearing
this tale? Wouldn't be difficult to get 3000'+ on a decent sized
airfield.

>> >
>> > Uli
>> > 'AS'
>>
>> Uli, you can do the same from an aero-tow, just go ask our
club tow
>pilots. Sometimes I get questions from them like "Why are you
still hangin'
>on, what's wrong with you - at 1,600'.
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Monday, 20 April 2020 10:15:05 UTC+1, Dave Walsh wrote:
> At 21:53 19 April 2020, wrote:
> >On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 11:00:52 AM UTC-7,
> wrote:
> >> On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 5:53:55 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> >> > On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 2:15:37 PM UTC-4, Nick
> Kennedy wrote:
> >> > > New people always ask about release altitudes. The
> more relevant
> >question is the rate of launches. We learn to fly and gain
> proficiency
> >through repetition, we gain altitude in thermals. Ever ask the
> guy doing
> >pattern work in a 172 how high he got?
> >> > >
> >> > > For most licensed pilots I think the release height is very
> >important.
> >> > > If you go to all the trouble to get ready to go soaring,
> you want to
> >get high enough to have a good chance to get away.
> >> > > Nick
> >> > > T
> >> >
> >> > I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered
> a rope break
> >at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the
> audacity to
> >climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly
> known to be
> >associated with winching!
>
> I recall way back in history that, given enough wind, the pilot
> would be winched to the maximum height then the winch driver
> would very slowly let out cable with the glider still attached. With
> the cable fully out the winch driver then applied power and a
> "second" climb followed. Never witnessed this but was told it
> happened in the UK back in the '60s. Anyone remember hearing
> this tale? Wouldn't be difficult to get 3000'+ on a decent sized
> airfield.
>
> >> >
> >> > Uli
> >> > 'AS'
> >>
> >> Uli, you can do the same from an aero-tow, just go ask our
> club tow
> >pilots. Sometimes I get questions from them like "Why are you
> still hangin'
> >on, what's wrong with you - at 1,600'.
> >
> >

We used to do kiting regularly in the 1960s with T-21's and two lightweight pilots, took about 20 minutes to get to 3,400' which was the highest I ever got. Rules were very different then.

[AS]

> > I beg to differ! Last weekend, one of our guys encountered a rope break at 1,000ft (an old splice let go) and not only did he have the audacity to climb away, he also went XC! He broke all the rules commonly known to be associated with winching!
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
>
> Uli, you can do the same from an aero-tow, just go ask our club tow pilots. Sometimes I get questions from them like "Why are you still hangin' on, what's wrong with you - at 1,600'.

I know that, Herb. I was merely making fun of one of the most used arguments by the winch opponents I have encountered when promoting winch launching in the US. Most of them also knew that certain death awaits you when hooking up your glider to the winch line ....
As far as I know, the current record for the highest winch launch is to FL50 in a K21 flown off of a decommissioned NATO airbase in Belgium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyRlkOgkZho

[ASM]

1852 meters in Perkoz in Poland. http://www.szybowce.com/milowa-wysokosc-holu-za-wyciagarka-bb-aero-w-bialej-podlaskiej/

[AS]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 9:03:33 PM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
> 1852 meters in Perkoz in Poland. http://www.szybowce.com/milowa-wysokosc-holu-za-wyciagarka-bb-aero-w-bialej-podlaskiej/

That is amazing - congratulations to the pilots! Any info on the winch that was used?

Uli
'AS'

[[email protected]]

> That is amazing - congratulations to the pilots! Any info on the winch that was used?

OK let's set a record. Freighter ship heading west from Portugal, heading for the US. BIG payout reel of 3mm Spectra (Dyneema), into the wind at 20 knots with a 30 knot headwind. Launch from the afterdeck and spend a day or so on payout and climb, until the weight of the line catenary hits the water.. Or add a supporting parachute every thousand meters or so. Release and try to make it back to terra firma, as opposed to aqua sinkus.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:03:31 -0700, ASM wrote:

> 1852 meters in Perkoz in Poland.
> http://www.szybowce.com/milowa-wysokosc-holu-za-wyciagarka-bb-aero-w-
bialej-podlaskiej/

After a while a hight winch launch could get a bit boring. I'd like to
try this for a change:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOe6ljFkycE


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org