Canopy tinting

[Paul[_11_]]

Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?

Thanks,

[bumper[_4_]]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 8:49:26 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
> Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
>
> Thanks,

Paul,

When I first bought a Stemme, I put one of those electrostatic cling, dark plastic tint panels above my head. Then rolled it out into the sun. When I compared the temperature differential between tinted area and clear. The delta was rising rapidly. I removed the tint, figuring it wasn't worth the risk of having a stress cracked canopy.

[Chris Behm]

I think Mark Mocho has a dark tinted canopy.

R,
Chris

[[email protected]]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 5:49:26 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
> Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
>
> Thanks,

It's poorly advertised but Mecaplex offers an IR-blocking tint which I've ordered after some hassle.
As a fraction of light blocked:
Colour / Visible / IR
Standard grey / 76% / 74%
IR blocking grey / 77% / 47%
Blue / 78% / 78%

Sunlight is about 45/55 visible/IR(?), so my napkin math suggests assuming 1000W/sqm:

(450 * 0.76) + (550 * 0.74) = 749W
(450 * 0.77) + (550 * 0.47) = 605W
-> ~25% cooler than typical tinted for no loss in visibility.

I don't know what fraction of either is blocked by an untinted canopy in comparison? Approximately 0% or more?

[[email protected]]

Yes, I have a dark tinted canopy. I believe it came from Thermotec (Roy Poquette, now deceased). It is noticeably cooler on a hot summer day (~10-15 degrees F). But it is way colder on a freezing day. As a result, I don't fly winter wave as much as I used to.

As far as adding the plastic film to a plastic canopy, you better do some experimentation on something other than your expensive canopy. Most tinting shops use a heat gun to activate the adhesive and make the flat film conform to contours. Car windows generally have a relatively gentle curvature, well within the capability of the film to stretch or shrink. I don't think the film would do too well on the pronounced compound curves of a canopy, and the heat necessary will probably deform the acrylic. And then you will have to buy a new canopy. Not to worry- you can get the new one tinted.

There is one aircraft (T-34 Mentor) here at Moriarty with a canopy that had the film applied, but there are a number of seams where the film had to be cut and overlapped. It looks pretty good, but the seams are pretty obvious.. Fortunately, the T-34 canopy panels do not have as much curvature as a sailplane canopy, so there aren't too many and most are unobtrusive to the pilot's sightline.

[[email protected]]

There are also spray-on tint products, but I don't think they are a good idea either. They are designed to be sprayed on glass, and the formulation and spray propellants in the can might damage the acrylic canopy. I watched a couple of videos on YouTube, and none of the testers were particularly impressed. About the highest recommendation was, "Well, I don't absolutely HATE it, but..."

[Tim Taylor]

Even the lighter grey and blue tints are too dark and can cause significant heat build up. I tried some at Hobbs a few years ago because my canopy is clear. Took it off right away. If you search the Soaring Archives, I believe Guy Byars wrote and article 20 years or so ago about using an orange tint to help block UV and heat.

[[email protected]]

When I replaced my ventus canopy I enquired about two things UV blockage and tint. They, the factory, answered both tinted and untinted are formulated to block 95% UV just a little less 99% that is glass. So I opted for the untinted for the reasons stated in previous posts.

CH

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

My thoughts....FWIW.,,.plastic canopy....tinting.....most solutions are for glass surface.,..we're dealing with plastic....
For the cost of a new canopy (parts and labor plus downtime and shipping both ways)......buy tinted or deal with it....
If dumping a ship soon...."buyer beware"....
Otherwise....(guessing on my part)...,,run away fast....
My $0.02..,,

[Paul[_11_]]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 11:49:26 PM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
> Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
>
> Thanks,

Than you all for your answers, that clears my question. Much appreciated!

[[email protected]]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:50:12 AM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
> Even the lighter grey and blue tints are too dark and can cause significant heat build up. I tried some at Hobbs a few years ago because my canopy is clear. Took it off right away. If you search the Soaring Archives, I believe Guy Byars wrote and article 20 years or so ago about using an orange tint to help block UV and heat.

Indeed I did write such an article. I had hoped it had been forgotten.

Applying adhesive films to a Plexiglas canopy is a bad idea. It will ruin the canopy. The films won't stretch enough for the required contours. I got around this by taping strips of a special UV film to the canopy. It worked OK for experimentation, but once that was done I removed it. No matter how carefully you apply them, they will ALWAYS wrinkle and produce distorted reflections. Also dirt and bugs will find a way to get in-between them forcing a reapplication.

I did further experiments by putting films on flat pieces of Plexiglas, like for sun shade panels in power planes. They went on great, and looked great for a few days, then they always developed bubbles and blisters. That was due to the Plexiglas being slightly porous and also venting gas over time.

The spray on products will also ruin your canopy. The products I tested were made for glass and immediately rendered my test Plexiglas samples completely opaque.

You have to ask the bigger question about exactly "WHY" you want to do this.. What problem are you looking to solve? Temperature? UV exposure? I have found the best solution for both these issues is to leave the canopy alone and wear protective clothing. Long sleeves, gloves, hats with face covers... etc.

Guy Byars

[Paul[_11_]]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 1:39:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:50:12 AM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
> > Even the lighter grey and blue tints are too dark and can cause significant heat build up. I tried some at Hobbs a few years ago because my canopy is clear. Took it off right away. If you search the Soaring Archives, I believe Guy Byars wrote and article 20 years or so ago about using an orange tint to help block UV and heat.
>
> Indeed I did write such an article. I had hoped it had been forgotten.
>
> Applying adhesive films to a Plexiglas canopy is a bad idea. It will ruin the canopy. The films won't stretch enough for the required contours. I got around this by taping strips of a special UV film to the canopy. It worked OK for experimentation, but once that was done I removed it. No matter how carefully you apply them, they will ALWAYS wrinkle and produce distorted reflections. Also dirt and bugs will find a way to get in-between them forcing a reapplication.
>
> I did further experiments by putting films on flat pieces of Plexiglas, like for sun shade panels in power planes. They went on great, and looked great for a few days, then they always developed bubbles and blisters. That was due to the Plexiglas being slightly porous and also venting gas over time.
>
> The spray on products will also ruin your canopy. The products I tested were made for glass and immediately rendered my test Plexiglas samples completely opaque.
>
> You have to ask the bigger question about exactly "WHY" you want to do this. What problem are you looking to solve? Temperature? UV exposure? I have found the best solution for both these issues is to leave the canopy alone and wear protective clothing. Long sleeves, gloves, hats with face covers... etc.
>
> Guy Byars

That cleared the questions I had. Thanks for your reply.

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 11:07:19 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> When I replaced my ventus canopy I enquired about two things UV blockage and tint. They, the factory, answered both tinted and untinted are formulated to block 95% UV just a little less 99% that is glass. So I opted for the untinted for the reasons stated in previous posts.
>
> CH

My Phoenix Motorglider has a tinted canopy. This has a very significant advantage in that it makes it easier to read my iPad and glass cockpit instruments. I have no experience applying tinting to an existing canopy, but if you are getting a new canopy, I would definitely recommend tinting.

[2G]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 2:26:27 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 5:49:26 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
> > Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> It's poorly advertised but Mecaplex offers an IR-blocking tint which I've ordered after some hassle.
> As a fraction of light blocked:
> Colour / Visible / IR
> Standard grey / 76% / 74%
> IR blocking grey / 77% / 47%
> Blue / 78% / 78%
>
> Sunlight is about 45/55 visible/IR(?), so my napkin math suggests assuming 1000W/sqm:
>
> (450 * 0.76) + (550 * 0.74) = 749W
> (450 * 0.77) + (550 * 0.47) = 605W
> -> ~25% cooler than typical tinted for no loss in visibility.
>
> I don't know what fraction of either is blocked by an untinted canopy in comparison? Approximately 0% or more?

You don't need an IR blocking tint as acrylic blocks UV all by itself:

https://www.gsoptics.com/transmission-curves/

[[email protected]]

Tinted glider canopies as sold on new gliders are nothing to do with increasing UV protection. They are intended to reduce IR transmission into the cockpit and make it a little cooler. That is why they are at the blue end of the colour spectrum i.e. the opposite of "blue blocker" brown sun spec lenses. Most heating in the cockpit on the ground comes from the greenhouse effect and that is only slightly reduced by tinting but my own subjective impression is that direct sun on to my person feels a little less hot through a blue tinted canopy.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 12:50:20 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 2:26:27 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 5:49:26 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
> > > Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> >
> > It's poorly advertised but Mecaplex offers an IR-blocking tint which I've ordered after some hassle.
> > As a fraction of light blocked:
> > Colour / Visible / IR
> > Standard grey / 76% / 74%
> > IR blocking grey / 77% / 47%
> > Blue / 78% / 78%
> >
> > Sunlight is about 45/55 visible/IR(?), so my napkin math suggests assuming 1000W/sqm:
> >
> > (450 * 0.76) + (550 * 0.74) = 749W
> > (450 * 0.77) + (550 * 0.47) = 605W
> > -> ~25% cooler than typical tinted for no loss in visibility.
> >
> > I don't know what fraction of either is blocked by an untinted canopy in comparison? Approximately 0% or more?
>
> You don't need an IR blocking tint as acrylic blocks UV all by itself:
>
Some UV, not all. Acrylic blocks UV-B, so you don't get a sunburn. But it still lets significant UV-A through, which can cause deeper skin damage. Best to cover exposed areas with opaque material.

[[email protected]]

> direct sun on to my person feels a little less hot...

It would actually feel a lot less hot if those areas of your person were covered with sun protective material.

[[email protected]]

You miss my point gbfwi. I said nothing about the UV protection characteristics of canopy materials. I was stating that the reason tinted canopies are sold on gliders is not to do with additional UV filtering. For that I always wear full length UV protecting clothing, hat and sun shade gloves + factor 50 when gliding.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 6:23:20 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> You miss my point gbfwi. I said nothing about the UV protection characteristics of canopy materials.

Sorry, I misunderstood when you said "acrylic blocks UV".

[Scott Williams[_2_]]

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 10:49:26 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
> Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
>
> Thanks,

For what it is worth, I flew an SHK with a Roy Poquette supplied dark tinted canopy for several years and didn't know sun heating under a canopy until I switched to a clear canopy in a standard cirrus. dramatic difference!
Scott

[2G]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 2:52:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 12:50:20 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 2:26:27 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 5:49:26 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
> > > > Question: Is it possible to tint a canopy like a car, for example, using automotive window tinting material? I know some canopies are tinted a bluish color, but what about a dark black tint?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > It's poorly advertised but Mecaplex offers an IR-blocking tint which I've ordered after some hassle.
> > > As a fraction of light blocked:
> > > Colour / Visible / IR
> > > Standard grey / 76% / 74%
> > > IR blocking grey / 77% / 47%
> > > Blue / 78% / 78%
> > >
> > > Sunlight is about 45/55 visible/IR(?), so my napkin math suggests assuming 1000W/sqm:
> > >
> > > (450 * 0.76) + (550 * 0.74) = 749W
> > > (450 * 0.77) + (550 * 0.47) = 605W
> > > -> ~25% cooler than typical tinted for no loss in visibility.
> > >
> > > I don't know what fraction of either is blocked by an untinted canopy in comparison? Approximately 0% or more?
> >
> > You don't need an IR blocking tint as acrylic blocks UV all by itself:
> >
> Some UV, not all. Acrylic blocks UV-B, so you don't get a sunburn. But it still lets significant UV-A through, which can cause deeper skin damage. Best to cover exposed areas with opaque material.

UV-A is defined as wavelengths between 315 and 400nm. As can be seen from the transmission plots I provided, acrylic falls off steeply at 400nm. This blocks almost, but not, all UV-A.

Tom

[2G]

On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 at 3:23:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> You miss my point gbfwi. I said nothing about the UV protection characteristics of canopy materials. I was stating that the reason tinted canopies are sold on gliders is not to do with additional UV filtering. For that I always wear full length UV protecting clothing, hat and sun shade gloves + factor 50 when gliding.

That will help you on the ground when you are not in your glider (which IS a very good idea), but is totally unnecessary while flying.

Tom

[[email protected]]

Well 2G, it would be rather inconvenient to take off the clothes I am happy with every time I get into the cockpit.

[2G]

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 12:37:56 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Well 2G, it would be rather inconvenient to take off the clothes I am happy with every time I get into the cockpit.

And WHY would you want to do that?