Flight Review in single place glider

[son_of_flubber]

Any chance that FAA would allow (the flying portion of) Flight Reviews to be completed with the CFI standing on the ground? Would this not be as good as or better than the CFI sitting in the backseat?

I'm not a CFI, but I don't see the magic in having the CFI in the backseat. What could not be accomplished with a preflight briefing of expectations, a radio, and maybe a pair of binoculars and/or *.igc flight log review? And/or a CFI-tuggie could fly the tow plane, observe the aerotow from that position and maybe even observe the glider pilot from the air.

[SoaringXCellence]

The ultra light/SLA regulations allow an examiner to observe from the ground if the applicant's airplane is a single place. I'm not aware of any regulation permitting ground observation for flight reviews.

[Bob Youngblood]

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:28:21 PM UTC-4, SoaringXCellence wrote:
> The ultra light/SLA regulations allow an examiner to observe from the ground if the applicant's airplane is a single place. I'm not aware of any regulation permitting ground observation for flight reviews.

Back in the day the examiner could observe from the ground and sign off the individual. Now days things have changed, haven't heard of that being allowed in a long time.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 7:57:00 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Any chance that FAA would allow (the flying portion of) Flight Reviews to be completed with the CFI standing on the ground? Would this not be as good as or better than the CFI sitting in the backseat?
>
> I'm not a CFI, but I don't see the magic in having the CFI in the backseat. What could not be accomplished with a preflight briefing of expectations, a radio, and maybe a pair of binoculars and/or *.igc flight log review? And/or a CFI-tuggie could fly the tow plane, observe the aerotow from that position and maybe even observe the glider pilot from the air.

How would a CFI, observing from the ground, evaluate such elements as proper use of controls, scanning, discussion of safety options, slow flight, stalls, stalls departing toward a spin, and any number of other important items?
All he or she could do is observe tat the glider appeared to be in control and evaluate takeoff and landing.
UH

[[email protected]]

> How would a CFI, observing from the ground, evaluate such elements as proper use of controls, scanning, discussion of safety options, slow flight, stalls, stalls departing toward a spin, and any number of other important items?

Desert Aerospace uses the PBS TJ-100 jet powered TsT-14 BonusJet to provide transition training into the single seat SubSonex Experimental jet from Sonex Aircraft. Once the student has completed the FAA approved curriculum, including engine operating procedures, takeoff, engine and fuel management, approaches, rejected landings, go-around procedures and landing, the FAA Designated Examiner witnesses flights in the single-seat SubSonex using GoPro cameras in the cockpit and on the airframe. After completing a set of required maneuvers, attitudes and Airspeed control demonstrations, the DPE and student review the flight on a computer. If requirements are met satisfactorily, the appropriate Type Rating is issued. See "AOPA Pilot" magazine July 2015 or "Kitplanes" magazine August 2015 for further information about the flight evaluation procedure.

[[email protected]]

Forgot to mention that the TsT-14 BonusJet is a two-place glider.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 5/2/2020 6:05 AM:
>
>> How would a CFI, observing from the ground, evaluate such elements as proper use of controls, scanning, discussion of safety options, slow flight, stalls, stalls departing toward a spin, and any number of other important items?
>
> Desert Aerospace uses the PBS TJ-100 jet powered TsT-14 BonusJet to provide transition training into the single seat SubSonex Experimental jet from Sonex Aircraft. Once the student has completed the FAA approved curriculum, including engine operating procedures, takeoff, engine and fuel management, approaches, rejected landings, go-around procedures and landing, the FAA Designated Examiner witnesses flights in the single-seat SubSonex using GoPro cameras in the cockpit and on the airframe. After completing a set of required maneuvers, attitudes and Airspeed control demonstrations, the DPE and student review the flight on a computer. If requirements are met satisfactorily, the appropriate Type Rating is issued. See "AOPA Pilot" magazine July 2015 or "Kitplanes" magazine August 2015 for further information about the flight evaluation procedure.
>
It sounds like an interesting approach. Does the student follow a script during
the solo flight, is directed by radio to do certain tasks, or ... ?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[son_of_flubber]

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:46:39 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> How would a CFI, observing from the ground, evaluate such elements as proper use of controls, scanning, discussion of safety options, slow flight, stalls, stalls departing toward a spin, and any number of other important items?

A Flight Review is not a Checkride. What is actually required? A couple of GoPros in the cockpit could answer a lot of your points.

I'm proposing a stopgap measure that would be a lot better than people flying with expired flight reviews (which I expect will happen), or flying dual with a CFI that has underlying medical conditions.

My flight review is valid until July 31 2021.

[Pat Russell[_2_]]

It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

Here's a pretty good summary of the situation:
https://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2803

[Boise Pilot]

Back in the 80's when the FAA had a Practical Test Standard for Motor Gliders/ Self Launch Sailplanes,I had purchased a share in a PIK 20E and approached my FSDOon how to get the rating added to my FAA Certificate. In one day did Private SEL, Commercial/Instructor Glider and Motor Glider plus demonstrated ride due to being blind in one eye. The FAA examiner had just gone to TX and had 10 dual flights and one solo flight in a sailplane. Long morning oral to cover everything!! Did the demonstrated and private SEL in a 182, then the Com'l/ CFIG in a Blanik L-13. The FAA examiner observed the assembly of the PIK and ask a lot of questions including emergency procedures for engine failure during take off, climb, cruise and non starting in the air, - he had never seen a motor glider!. Then we established a protocol for the rating flight with him on the ground and directing the flight via radio. The flight exam points were: Start up, taxi, takeoff, climb to 2,500' over the airport, bank so he could see it, stop and stow the engine. Redeploy and air start, stow and land. That was the easy part. Getting the rating added to the certificate was a long drawn out process. I had three different certificates issued to acknowledge the motor glider add on: these all included the SEL, Com'l, CFIG and aero tow
-NO Tows Authorized
My examiner sent that one back with the question of what was the intent, jump off a mountain?
-this one had no restrictions including the Aero Tow. By the regs. at that time this indicated I had no restrictions and could winch, auto, bungee, aero tow. Again my examiner inquired of OK FAA how this would work as I had not completed exams for the other types of tows.
-FINALLY, the last one list "Self Launch Authorized"
To my knowledge mine is the only FAA Certificate issued with this. Shortly thereafter the FAR's were amended so that a motor glider/ self launch was a "qualified instructor endorsement" The Practical Test Standard was removed and the procedure to get the endorsement was strongly influenced by an AC and the insurance companies requirements. Sub note, my examiner, I think it was about 6 months later told me the FAA, for all practical purposes had removed the option of doing a single seat check ride where the examiner was on the ground.
Boise Pilot

-






On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:32:40 AM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> wrote on 5/2/2020 6:05 AM:
> >
> >> How would a CFI, observing from the ground, evaluate such elements as proper use of controls, scanning, discussion of safety options, slow flight, stalls, stalls departing toward a spin, and any number of other important items?
> >
> > Desert Aerospace uses the PBS TJ-100 jet powered TsT-14 BonusJet to provide transition training into the single seat SubSonex Experimental jet from Sonex Aircraft. Once the student has completed the FAA approved curriculum, including engine operating procedures, takeoff, engine and fuel management, approaches, rejected landings, go-around procedures and landing, the FAA Designated Examiner witnesses flights in the single-seat SubSonex using GoPro cameras in the cockpit and on the airframe. After completing a set of required maneuvers, attitudes and Airspeed control demonstrations, the DPE and student review the flight on a computer. If requirements are met satisfactorily, the appropriate Type Rating is issued. See "AOPA Pilot" magazine July 2015 or "Kitplanes" magazine August 2015 for further information about the flight evaluation procedure.
> >

[[email protected]]

> It sounds like an interesting approach. Does the student follow a script during
> the solo flight, is directed by radio to do certain tasks, or ... ?

The student follows a test card with the required maneuvers listed by the DPE.

[[email protected]]

To be safe from the virus we must compromise flight safety. Or the existing pre-virus safety rules were unnecessary. Pick one.

[[email protected]]

> To be safe from the virus we must compromise flight safety. Or the existing pre-virus safety rules were unnecessary. Pick one.


https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/videos/1360247047509673/

[son_of_flubber]

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 11:37:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> To be safe from the virus we must compromise flight safety. Or the existing pre-virus safety rules were unnecessary. Pick one.


You oversimplify. There is a shortage of CFI-glider in some places. Many CFI-glider are older and some have underlying conditions. Keeping CFIs alive until there is a vaccine is much more important than having a CFI ride in the backseat during my Flight Review.

Even if I could find a CFI to ride in the backseat, I don't want to share that airspace.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 11:38:29 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 11:37:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > To be safe from the virus we must compromise flight safety. Or the existing pre-virus safety rules were unnecessary. Pick one.
>
>
> You oversimplify. There is a shortage of CFI-glider in some places. Many CFI-glider are older and some have underlying conditions. Keeping CFIs alive until there is a vaccine is much more important than having a CFI ride in the backseat during my Flight Review.
>
> Even if I could find a CFI to ride in the backseat, I don't want to share that airspace.

It isn't an oversimplification. Is flying with a CFI per FAA, insurance and club rules necessary to safety or not? If so then we can't safely fly without doing those things and since being within 6' of another human will forever be deadly(this power trip isn't going to end) once our flight reviews are up we are grounded forever.

[Shaun Wheeler]

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 6:57:00 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Any chance that FAA would allow (the flying portion of) Flight Reviews to be completed with the CFI standing on the ground? Would this not be as good as or better than the CFI sitting in the backseat?
>
> I'm not a CFI, but I don't see the magic in having the CFI in the backseat. What could not be accomplished with a preflight briefing of expectations, a radio, and maybe a pair of binoculars and/or *.igc flight log review? And/or a CFI-tuggie could fly the tow plane, observe the aerotow from that position and maybe even observe the glider pilot from the air.

Let's just let everybody expire and then wait for the FAA to come up with a sensible policy to address it.

Maybe the clubs can function as a private enterprise, close off access to everybody who isn't an influential member, then fold when the **** hits the fan.