View Full Version : Bailout and survival kit
I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
> What works for you?
I hope to not know.
There is stuff in the glider, but finding it might be hard in a bailout.
Remember Dave lost his PLB. That's first on my list, followed by SMAK, pocket knife, cell phone, wallet. I could see two pints of water in pants legs or vest pockets. (Some folks fly with ice on their chest, so maybe that could be the water as well?)
Much more that on your person, and egress might be a problem?
I'm not sure where you could carry enough stuff to make much difference except between the sheepskin pad and chute housing. I have snaps there and maybe you could make a form fitting thing with snaps on both sides to fit in the middle. Would be hard to pack to be comfortable and not hurt the chute..
Maybe a seat pack under your butt if you are not too tall?
btw: a great subject for cabin fever.
I’d go with a vest, google USAF survival vest to see several good options. The pockets are below your parachute chest strap and quite comfortable as I remember.
Another way to go is get a BRS and keep your survival pack stowed away behind the seat. Wouldn’t it be real cool to make a May Day call after you get a good chute?
JJ
The BRS is not an option, as the system has to be engineered as part of the airframe. You just can't buy one and stick it in like a new flight computer. All BRS installations I know of in gliders are developed with the aircraft manufacturer for a particular application. And adding one to a Standard Certificated glider would be a huge exercise in frustration with FAA requirements and regulations.
I was a dealer for BRS in my hang gliding days (as well as Second Chantz) and those were incorporated into the pilot's harness and as such could be retrofitted.
Mike the Strike
May 4th 20, 04:21 PM
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:09:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
>
> It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
>
> I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
>
> Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
I've flown over lots of gnarly country over the years - both in South Africa and the USA. In many of these areas self-rescue by walking out is impossible and your only chance is to communicate with rescuers. That means having at least one and preferably two or three communications means secured to your person. For example, rescue beacon, cellphone and portable radio. An airband handheld enables communications with aircraft overhead and in many areas VHF amateur radio repeaters reach areas without cellphone coverage. Other than that, carry enough water to last you a day and a night.
Mike
A hand held airband is a good thing to have. Yaesu nakes a very small one little bigger than a pack of cigs. Thats what I carry also good for directing in your crew for a retreave when having to hike out to a road and away from your machine.
> A hand held airband is a good thing to have.
I've thought about that. If you get separated from the glider, it also might help you find it if the glider has an old ELT.
I have a 'chute by Paraphernalia, in Arlington, WA. It has a small built in pouch at the base for survival equipment. Mine contains an aircraft radio with two sets of batteries, strobe with two sets of batteries, knife, compass, signal mirror, whistle, battery to recharge my cell phone, fire starter, stitching tool, paper, pen, and some cash.
I am considering replacing the radio with a Garmin InReach Mini.
My soaring clothes have zipped pockets. The cell phone goes in one, the wallet in another. Too much of a pain to take them in and out of the survival pouch.
The Spot is bolted in the nose of the glider forward of the rudder pedals.
P9
I've been looking online for survival/fishing/photographers vests and I have found some interesting choices. The Bushline Arapaho and Manitoulin vests look pretty good. It appears that the pockets are zippered and placed where interference with seat belts and parachute harness straps may not be as much of an issue as I thought. If shopping in public is ever permitted again, I might have to check out Cabela's and other sporting goods stores to see what's available. It would be nice to try one on and evaluate it.
> The Spot is bolted in the nose of the glider forward of the rudder pedals..
So, with the Spot locator bolted in front of the rudder pedals, you don't have access to the SOS button. And if you have to "go for help," the SAR folks will start looking at your tracking information, which could be ~10 minutes old from the last updated position (unless the Spot survives the impact and continues to update). And then they will find the glider location. Hopefully, you will be close enough after bailout, chute deployment and descent to wave at them. But probably not. The Spot or InReach should be on YOU, not the aircraft.
Oh, BTW, carry the InReach instructions with you. Hate to make a safe landing (with or without glider) and not be able to remember how to send a text message.
Duster[_2_]
May 5th 20, 03:54 AM
For my Softie rig, the vest pockets would be inaccessible/bulky. However, the large space between my sheepskin and parachute forms a huge pouch that can be filled with lots of bailout items without being uncomfortable. I carry an old, thin flip-phone that the law mandates can still be used to call 911, a CD for mirror signalling, space-blanket, etc, plus a small SPOT. Before flight, I chill several small 4oz water-pouches (12 for $4.00 @ https://www.moreprepared.com/sos-emergency-drinking-water-pouch) and are sterile for wound irrigation (5 year shelf-life). Dehydrated water is even lighter! Don't forget that water ballast is available if you land near the glider.
Don't forget that water ballast is available if you land near the glider.
Considering the amount of crappy Moriarty water I've run through those ballast bags over the last 15 years, never flushing them out or disinfecting them, I would think twice about drinking out of those toilets. A water purifying straw from Mioxx or Lifestraw will definitely be part of the kit. Or a decent sized bottle of Jack Daniel's.
Wyll Surf Air
May 5th 20, 06:32 AM
I use one of these velcro and zip tied to the shoulder strap of my parachute.
https://www.ebay.com/c/1640576232
In it I have a space blanket, lighter, flashlight, knife, hook knife, old phone for 911 calls, pencil, tape, bandaids, rope, whistle, and matches in a water proof container.
The bag I linked above is just big enough to fit a fair amount o gear in while small enough to strap on the shoulder strap and not get in the way.
John Foster
May 5th 20, 06:47 AM
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 7:09:11 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
>
> It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
>
> I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
>
> Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
I've been thinking about this a bit lately. I have one of these:
http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/1/ProductID/71
In concept, it is quite good. Lots of room to keep lots of important stuff, and my Softie can be worn over it. However, in practice, when I put both of them on, the parachute harness straps don't quite fit with it nicely (my parachute has the aerobatic harness with crossed straps in the front). The bigger problem though is that I have so much stuff stuffed in the kit bag that it is quite thick. And it rides at the same level as the D-handle for the rip chord, making it more awkward to access the D-handle. This is a definite no-go. However, if I had a conventional harness with the transverse cross strap, it could fit a bit better. This doesn't solve the problem of it being so thick and interfering with access to the rip chord though. So my considered solution to that would be either:
1. Don't stuff it so full, or
2. Use a thinner kit bag like this:
http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/1/ProductID/6
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
May 5th 20, 01:33 PM
Wyll Surf Air wrote on 5/4/2020 10:32 PM:
> I use one of these velcro and zip tied to the shoulder strap of my parachute.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/c/1640576232
>
> In it I have a space blanket, lighter, flashlight, knife, hook knife, old phone for 911 calls, pencil, tape, bandaids, rope, whistle, and matches in a water proof container.
>
> The bag I linked above is just big enough to fit a fair amount o gear in while small enough to strap on the shoulder strap and not get in the way.
>
It seems big for a parachute shoulder strap. Do you have picture of it's attachment?
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> It seems big for a parachute shoulder strap. Do you have picture of it's attachment?
Hump? What hump?
(Young Frankenstein)
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 9:09:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
>
> It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
>
> I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
>
> Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
A USAF survival vest is designed to carry a boat load of stuff, much of which you would not need in a noncombat bailout and is designed to not inhibit the chute harness. Will carry survival radio, extra batteries, compass, medical kit, knife, gun, flare gun and flares among other things. You also want to think about water and high energy food. I carried Tootsie Rolls in Vietnam. They don't melt, last forever.
Walt Connelly
Happy Helicopter Pilot
The vest we had in Nam consisted of 2 radios and a snub-nosed 38. Radios were below the parachute chest strap and were quite comfortable. We had a large hunting knife on the G-suite thigh with all other survival gear in the seat-pack. I think this vest would work well in a Sailplane Radio,hat, glasses, water,etc. Good place to store your wallet and cellphone also.
RF-4C GIB ‘68
JJ
Dehydrated water. Now that's effin funny.
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 1:35:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Dehydrated water. Now that's effin funny.
Bernard Foods Dehydrated Water. The first and still the best. Responsibly sourced, organic, gluten free, animal cruelty free. You can get it here:
http://www.bernardfoods.com/foodservice/beverages/dehydatedwater.htm
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
May 5th 20, 09:25 PM
Yep, caught that, got a chuckle as well....like "bucket of steam" or "left handed smoke shifter" back in Scouts....
No, I have minimum stuff when XC flying, then again, usually in cell range in the NE....
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 1:25:30 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> Yep, caught that, got a chuckle as well....like "bucket of steam" or "left handed smoke shifter" back in Scouts....
>
> No, I have minimum stuff when XC flying, then again, usually in cell range in the NE....
A typical adult needs a gallon of water a day to stay hydrated. That is going to be pretty tough to hang from your parachute. Emergency water packets are much smaller than this. The only alternative is to find ground water or collect rainfall. Finding a water supply in the desert will be pretty tough. A space blanket would come in handy for the later. Thus it is vital that you communicate your location for rescue. A satellite messenger (Inreach, SPOT or a sat phone) is your best bet, but an aviation radio can put you in contact with airliners (not so many these days). Fly in clothes that you can spend the night outdoors in (a chute canopy will come in handy for warmth). You may need to hike out yourself. Put topo maps and a compass on your smart phone and practice using them. Carry an aux battery for the phone (some mountain climbers on Mt. Hood lost their last contact with rescuers when the only phone's battery died - they died too and were never found). Your hat will probably be lost while bailing out: carry a skull cap to protect your head from sun and cold. Having a fire starter is also a good idea, both for warmth and signalling. A signal mirror is essential in contacting rescuers. Of course a good whistle will help them find you when they are closer.. Remember, you may be injured and cannot move into a more visible location.. I also carry a handheld radio and a good knife. I have survived some pretty miserable nights on mountains - you have to be prepared to make it thru with whatever you have on hand at the time.
Tom
Don’t forget to save your yellow water to be used in an emergency after your dehydrated water runs out!
😛JJ
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:41:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Don’t forget to save your yellow water to be used in an emergency after your dehydrated water runs out!
> 😛JJ
It won't be the first time.
David Shelton
May 9th 20, 06:12 AM
WATER: This is the number 1 thing that your body requires. I often carry a bit of water in a flexible Platypus container. They're suprisingly durable and more comfortable to keep in my pocket than a rigid container.
The reality is that you can't carry enough water to survive very long, so be sure that you can find and filter water. My Garmin InReach is useful for finding water (ponds, lakes, streams, etc.). If you can handle 2 ounces, then I highly recommend the Sawyer MINI water filter. I use it to refill my water bottles on ultralight backpacking and mountaineering trips. At the very least, toss several MSR Aquatabs into your first aid kit. Drop one in your water bottle, wait 30 minutes, and you'll have safe drinking water.
STAY WARM AND DRY: After dehydration, hypothermia is probably the next most likely way to die, especially if you can't keep dry. An emergency blanket is great. If you can spare 3.8 ounces, I like the S.O.L. emergency bivvy. It's more thermally efficient to sleep in a sealed tube. I've spent the night in one at 12,000ft in a snow cave. I had a little condensation inside because they don't breath, but I slept pretty well.
FIRE: Waterproof matches, butane lighter, fancy flint device... take your pick. More importantly, know how to start a fire. Most people can't start a fire with a full book of matches.
FOOD: Two cliff bars.
FLASHLIGHT: Go with a small headlamp! I've had good luck with products from Princeton Tech, Black Diamond, and Petzl. A black Diamond Storm and spare batteries are part of my standard climbing kit. For emergency use, you could go with something lighter like a Petzl Bindi (200 lumens, 35 grams).
COMMUNICATION: Garmin Inreach and cell phone.
NAVIGATION: Don't bother hauling around a compass unless you actually know how to use it. Also, don't haul around a compass, even if you know how to use it. Compass navigation is a fun skill, but it's a waste of time if you have GPS and a cell phone.
I have a Garmin InReach and cell phone. Make sure that your cell phone is prepared to navigate offline. If you have Google maps, you can download maps to the phone. I also have the Gaia app on my phone. I use Gaia for ski mountaineering but it's also useful for finding your way through the back country.
KNIFE: I keep a 1oz Gerber STL in my first aid kit. I used to be more of a knife fan, but after spending an awful lot of time outdoors, I found that I very rarely need one.
First Aid Kit: My first aid kit is about the size of a wallet. A couple band aids, ibuprofin, tweezers, a piece of mole skin, safety pin, a foot of Duct tape, etc. The most likely items I'll use? Definitely the mole skin and ibuprofin! You don't need ace bandages, trauma sheers, or a pile of gauze. Unless you happen to be naked, you should have plenty of material to wrap up a wound. As with starting a fire, you really need to know what you're doing. There are plenty of books on wilderness first aid.
CLOTHING: Cotton kills! It provides little insulation value when wet. Wear synthetic clothing and hiking shoes. I normally wear gortex trail running shoes anyways, so my feet stay dry in snow or rain.
All of my survival gear fits in my pockets (zippered pockets so I can't lose it!). Ultralight gear has gotten so good that there's no longer a need for big vests and pouches. If you really insist on carrying a couple more pounds of stuff, then check out the 986 gram Dudek paraglider. All you need to do is launch off the nearest hill and then fly home ;)
David- Excellent suggestions! However, you forgot to mention something important. How about toilet paper? Not absolutely necessary, but having some might make you feel like you are a little closer to civilization. And now that the "BIG RUSH" on supplies has calmed down, you might even be able to find some in the store.
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 9th 20, 07:30 PM
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:09:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
>
> It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
>
> I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
>
> Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
At one point in time I was a paid mountain climbing guide, just by way of qualifications. The biggest mistake I see so many pilots making is not dress for egress. I was at a Nephi camp (lots of rough remote terrain), yet I saw many flying in cotton short-sleeve shirt and shorts! Sheesh, that is like telling Mother Nature "you are good, but I am better. Let me spot you half the points you need to wipe me off the planet." I wear Musto sailing pants (with very flat cargo pockets designed to be opened while sitting). I wear a long sleeve sun hoodie and I wear a paracord bracelet(multi-function with lots of goodies) on each wrist. If I am down without a glider and the wind rain starts I can at least use some handy paracord to tie shut my pants bottoms and shirt sleeve cuffs, fill both pants and shirt with leaves, sand, dirt rocks, for added insulation. I also carry on my body multiple forms of starting a fire from several lighters, and a combo flint stick multi-tool around my neck (inside shirt) with paracord https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TLHWMRL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1JWT33PLXJ7DC&psc=1
I also have a smack pack with survival medical gear, qwick clot, water purification tabs, fire, tourniquet out of paracord with a sliding locker...et. I am not confident the smack pack would stay on while trashing about trying to over come g-forces, so I have a Mylar blanket in a pants cargo pocket with two small packs of water.
I have had an unplanned land out at dusk once, not in a glider but another type of aircraft. Had the evening to think about the errors of my survival kit. Staying warm and dryish, can be the difference between giving up or not. Stay safe boys and gals!
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 9th 20, 08:06 PM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 11:30:07 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:09:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
> >
> > It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
> >
> > I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
> >
> > Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
> >
> > Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
>
> At one point in time I was a paid mountain climbing guide, just by way of qualifications. The biggest mistake I see so many pilots making is not dress for egress. I was at a Nephi camp (lots of rough remote terrain), yet I saw many flying in cotton short-sleeve shirt and shorts! Sheesh, that is like telling Mother Nature "you are good, but I am better. Let me spot you half the points you need to wipe me off the planet." I wear Musto sailing pants (with very flat cargo pockets designed to be opened while sitting). I wear a long sleeve sun hoodie and I wear a paracord bracelet(multi-function with lots of goodies) on each wrist. If I am down without a glider and the wind rain starts I can at least use some handy paracord to tie shut my pants bottoms and shirt sleeve cuffs, fill both pants and shirt with leaves, sand, dirt rocks, for added insulation. I also carry on my body multiple forms of starting a fire from several lighters, and a combo flint stick multi-tool around my neck (inside shirt) with paracord https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TLHWMRL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1JWT33PLXJ7DC&psc=1
> I also have a smack pack with survival medical gear, qwick clot, water purification tabs, fire, tourniquet out of paracord with a sliding locker...et. I am not confident the smack pack would stay on while trashing about trying to over come g-forces, so I have a Mylar blanket in a pants cargo pocket with two small packs of water.
> I have had an unplanned land out at dusk once, not in a glider but another type of aircraft. Had the evening to think about the errors of my survival kit. Staying warm and dryish, can be the difference between giving up or not. Stay safe boys and gals!
The combo tool I wear around neck is considerably smaller than the one in the link above, but made by same company. The paracord bracelets I wear are by Wazoo (looks like they do not make anymore, but one of my bracelets has a wire saw woven into the paracord). I also carry several simple metal (very old style) lighters of kerosene fuel, wick and flint. This is a metal container that looks kind like a quail egg, it screws completely air tight. I check the kerosene level every year and test fire. I carry several of these on person and in smack pack. Wazoo does make a handy Firestarter business card that I carry in my flight wallet along with a credit card from one of my ex-wife's accounts. I know if I use that card she will come find me wherever I am.
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 12:06:08 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 11:30:07 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:09:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
> > >
> > > It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
> > >
> > > I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
> > >
> > > Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
> > >
> > > Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
> >
> > At one point in time I was a paid mountain climbing guide, just by way of qualifications. The biggest mistake I see so many pilots making is not dress for egress. I was at a Nephi camp (lots of rough remote terrain), yet I saw many flying in cotton short-sleeve shirt and shorts! Sheesh, that is like telling Mother Nature "you are good, but I am better. Let me spot you half the points you need to wipe me off the planet." I wear Musto sailing pants (with very flat cargo pockets designed to be opened while sitting). I wear a long sleeve sun hoodie and I wear a paracord bracelet(multi-function with lots of goodies) on each wrist. If I am down without a glider and the wind rain starts I can at least use some handy paracord to tie shut my pants bottoms and shirt sleeve cuffs, fill both pants and shirt with leaves, sand, dirt rocks, for added insulation. I also carry on my body multiple forms of starting a fire from several lighters, and a combo flint stick multi-tool around my neck (inside shirt) with paracord https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TLHWMRL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1JWT33PLXJ7DC&psc=1
> > I also have a smack pack with survival medical gear, qwick clot, water purification tabs, fire, tourniquet out of paracord with a sliding locker....et. I am not confident the smack pack would stay on while trashing about trying to over come g-forces, so I have a Mylar blanket in a pants cargo pocket with two small packs of water.
> > I have had an unplanned land out at dusk once, not in a glider but another type of aircraft. Had the evening to think about the errors of my survival kit. Staying warm and dryish, can be the difference between giving up or not. Stay safe boys and gals!
>
> The combo tool I wear around neck is considerably smaller than the one in the link above, but made by same company. The paracord bracelets I wear are by Wazoo (looks like they do not make anymore, but one of my bracelets has a wire saw woven into the paracord). I also carry several simple metal (very old style) lighters of kerosene fuel, wick and flint. This is a metal container that looks kind like a quail egg, it screws completely air tight.. I check the kerosene level every year and test fire. I carry several of these on person and in smack pack. Wazoo does make a handy Firestarter business card that I carry in my flight wallet along with a credit card from one of my ex-wife's accounts. I know if I use that card she will come find me wherever I am.
Instead of a knife consider a Leatherman. It's several quality tools in one.. GPS is nice, but you don't always get reception; I have never seen Earth's magnetic field quit. If you don't know how to navigate by compass, how did you ever become a pilot? Oh, I forgot - the FAA doesn't require cross-country training for glider pilots. So, IF you are going to fly cross-country (why else would you need a survival kit?) learn how to navigate by ALL means at your disposal. Quick, what side of the tree does moss grow on?
Tom
You need warmth or shelter from the sun. You don't need water in some parts of the country and you can't bailout with enough in other parts of the country. I'm inclined to say the best thing is two inreaches. Or an inreach and a sat phone. Two is one, one is none. Gov't has all these fancy helicopters might as well get a ride.
Dave Nadler
May 9th 20, 10:57 PM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 3:06:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> ... I carry in my flight wallet ... a credit card from one of my ex-wife's
> accounts. I know if I use that card she will come find me wherever I am.
My wife was very impressed by this logic.
She wants to know, as you've written imprecisely:
Is that one of many cards from one of your ex-wives?
Or one of many cards of a specific ex-wife?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 10th 20, 12:58 AM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 1:39:09 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 12:06:08 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 11:30:07 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:09:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
> > > >
> > > > It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
> > > >
> > > > I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
> > > >
> > > > Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
> > >
> > > At one point in time I was a paid mountain climbing guide, just by way of qualifications. The biggest mistake I see so many pilots making is not dress for egress. I was at a Nephi camp (lots of rough remote terrain), yet I saw many flying in cotton short-sleeve shirt and shorts! Sheesh, that is like telling Mother Nature "you are good, but I am better. Let me spot you half the points you need to wipe me off the planet." I wear Musto sailing pants (with very flat cargo pockets designed to be opened while sitting).. I wear a long sleeve sun hoodie and I wear a paracord bracelet(multi-function with lots of goodies) on each wrist. If I am down without a glider and the wind rain starts I can at least use some handy paracord to tie shut my pants bottoms and shirt sleeve cuffs, fill both pants and shirt with leaves, sand, dirt rocks, for added insulation. I also carry on my body multiple forms of starting a fire from several lighters, and a combo flint stick multi-tool around my neck (inside shirt) with paracord https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TLHWMRL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1JWT33PLXJ7DC&psc=1
> > > I also have a smack pack with survival medical gear, qwick clot, water purification tabs, fire, tourniquet out of paracord with a sliding locker....et. I am not confident the smack pack would stay on while trashing about trying to over come g-forces, so I have a Mylar blanket in a pants cargo pocket with two small packs of water.
> > > I have had an unplanned land out at dusk once, not in a glider but another type of aircraft. Had the evening to think about the errors of my survival kit. Staying warm and dryish, can be the difference between giving up or not. Stay safe boys and gals!
> >
> > The combo tool I wear around neck is considerably smaller than the one in the link above, but made by same company. The paracord bracelets I wear are by Wazoo (looks like they do not make anymore, but one of my bracelets has a wire saw woven into the paracord). I also carry several simple metal (very old style) lighters of kerosene fuel, wick and flint. This is a metal container that looks kind like a quail egg, it screws completely air tight. I check the kerosene level every year and test fire. I carry several of these on person and in smack pack. Wazoo does make a handy Firestarter business card that I carry in my flight wallet along with a credit card from one of my ex-wife's accounts. I know if I use that card she will come find me wherever I am.
>
> Instead of a knife consider a Leatherman. It's several quality tools in one. GPS is nice, but you don't always get reception; I have never seen Earth's magnetic field quit. If you don't know how to navigate by compass, how did you ever become a pilot? Oh, I forgot - the FAA doesn't require cross-country training for glider pilots. So, IF you are going to fly cross-country (why else would you need a survival kit?) learn how to navigate by ALL means at your disposal. Quick, what side of the tree does moss grow on?
>
> Tom
That is north and mostly kind of. Down under south, mostly kind of.
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 10th 20, 01:03 AM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 2:57:17 PM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 3:06:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > ... I carry in my flight wallet ... a credit card from one of my ex-wife's
> > accounts. I know if I use that card she will come find me wherever I am.
>
> My wife was very impressed by this logic.
> She wants to know, as you've written imprecisely:
>
> Is that one of many cards from one of your ex-wives?
> Or one of many cards of a specific ex-wife?
>
> Enquiring minds want to know.
Dave, pardon to your wife for my writing. Perhaps too many meds:) or most likely typing on phone while flying Condor2. One card from one ex-wife. But if anyone wants to send me a card from their ex-wife I will be happy to use it in your name.
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 10th 20, 01:12 AM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 1:39:09 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 12:06:08 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 11:30:07 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:09:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > > > I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
> > > >
> > > > It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
> > > >
> > > > I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
> > > >
> > > > Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
> > >
> > > At one point in time I was a paid mountain climbing guide, just by way of qualifications. The biggest mistake I see so many pilots making is not dress for egress. I was at a Nephi camp (lots of rough remote terrain), yet I saw many flying in cotton short-sleeve shirt and shorts! Sheesh, that is like telling Mother Nature "you are good, but I am better. Let me spot you half the points you need to wipe me off the planet." I wear Musto sailing pants (with very flat cargo pockets designed to be opened while sitting).. I wear a long sleeve sun hoodie and I wear a paracord bracelet(multi-function with lots of goodies) on each wrist. If I am down without a glider and the wind rain starts I can at least use some handy paracord to tie shut my pants bottoms and shirt sleeve cuffs, fill both pants and shirt with leaves, sand, dirt rocks, for added insulation. I also carry on my body multiple forms of starting a fire from several lighters, and a combo flint stick multi-tool around my neck (inside shirt) with paracord https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TLHWMRL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1JWT33PLXJ7DC&psc=1
> > > I also have a smack pack with survival medical gear, qwick clot, water purification tabs, fire, tourniquet out of paracord with a sliding locker....et. I am not confident the smack pack would stay on while trashing about trying to over come g-forces, so I have a Mylar blanket in a pants cargo pocket with two small packs of water.
> > > I have had an unplanned land out at dusk once, not in a glider but another type of aircraft. Had the evening to think about the errors of my survival kit. Staying warm and dryish, can be the difference between giving up or not. Stay safe boys and gals!
> >
> > The combo tool I wear around neck is considerably smaller than the one in the link above, but made by same company. The paracord bracelets I wear are by Wazoo (looks like they do not make anymore, but one of my bracelets has a wire saw woven into the paracord). I also carry several simple metal (very old style) lighters of kerosene fuel, wick and flint. This is a metal container that looks kind like a quail egg, it screws completely air tight. I check the kerosene level every year and test fire. I carry several of these on person and in smack pack. Wazoo does make a handy Firestarter business card that I carry in my flight wallet along with a credit card from one of my ex-wife's accounts. I know if I use that card she will come find me wherever I am.
>
> Instead of a knife consider a Leatherman. It's several quality tools in one. GPS is nice, but you don't always get reception; I have never seen Earth's magnetic field quit. If you don't know how to navigate by compass, how did you ever become a pilot? Oh, I forgot - the FAA doesn't require cross-country training for glider pilots. So, IF you are going to fly cross-country (why else would you need a survival kit?) learn how to navigate by ALL means at your disposal. Quick, what side of the tree does moss grow on?
>
> Tom
Tom for my kit I thought a Leatherman was too heavy without enough of the functionality of purpose I wanted, kind of like a motor glider (kidding). So I chose a folding knife with half serrated and half straightedge. I wanted a knife I could open one handed and was light but strong. The butt end of knife has a thingy to break glass or put a serious knot in someone's head.
Dave Nadler
May 10th 20, 01:24 AM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 8:03:44 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Dave, pardon to your wife for my writing. Perhaps too many meds:)
> or most likely typing on phone while flying Condor2.
> One card from one ex-wife. But if anyone wants to send me a card
> from their ex-wife I will be happy to use it in your name.
Reminds me...
Ryszard, why is your wife's credit card in your toolbox?
Well, she'll never look in there, will she?
Muttley
May 10th 20, 04:04 PM
Being Swiss I always had this on my Belt when flying my gliders.
https://tinyurl.com/y9vmg7zp
Toothpicks and combs absolute essentials!
Muttley
>
> Toothpicks and combs absolute essentials!
Never thought of those as essential survival items.
What's the theory?
Being presentable might increase your chance of hitchhiking out?
Maybe I need to go add something to my kit.
I've been an admirer (and owner) of Victorinox Swiss Army knives since I got my first one at the age of ten from a really cool uncle. The original multi-tool was the envy of all my buddies.
Nowadays, the comb is pretty much superfluous to my needs, but I have appreciated the wine corkscrew many times. Now THERE'S an essential landout assistance device. Mostly in Europe, but it adds a bit of culture to the desert southwest of America, where innovative uses of seat belts, door latches, pliers, knife blades and even teeth are utilized to open beer bottles.
I second the knife with the little glass breaker nipple on it. As resident manager of a “treller park” in North Carolina, my brother carried one of these and demonstrated it to me one day when I was visiting. One of the residents of the park, an excitable fellow highly reminiscent of Earnest T. Bass, clad in jeans (just jeans, no shirt, socks, or shoes) presented himself at my brothers door. The fellow had worked himself into a lather, possibly with the help of alcohol and various controlled substances, over some personal affront that he blamed on my brother. Electricity cut off for nonpayment or something like that. The agitated gentleman was making an uncomfortable scene on my brother’s mobile home steps. My brother very nonchalantly opened the screen door, reached out and tapped the protesting fellow right on the crown of his head with the glass breaker on his pocket knife. Just a little tap, but the methamphetamine afflicted gent went down as if struck by lightning. So, I have to conclude that a knife so equipped can be quite useful for resolving certain unpleasant encounters.
Reminds me of one of the great Gary Larson "Far Side" comics that showed some prehistoric cavemen looking at a downed mastodon with one spear sticking out of it. One says to the other caveman, "We should probably write down that spot."
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 5:01:34 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> David- Excellent suggestions! However, you forgot to mention something important. How about toilet paper? Not absolutely necessary, but having some might make you feel like you are a little closer to civilization. And now that the "BIG RUSH" on supplies has calmed down, you might even be able to find some in the store.
I bring a couple feet of TP on most trips, but I don't keep any in my soaring kit because I find that it doesn't last so long; it turns into toilet paper crumbs before the end of the season. You can definitely carry some, but you might want to replace it from time to time.
You can definitely carry some, but you might want to replace it from time to time.
Well, it's not exactly meant to be reused. I pack as much as I think I will need, add a safety factor, double that and then vacuum bag it. This might not be the best place for a product recommendation, but a Foodsaver vacuum bagger can maintain the viability and longevity of a number of space critical survival supplies. Don't forget the survival knife, as even a mountain lion would have a hard time opening a Foodsaver bag without chewing it into shreds.
PS. Open the bag before you need it! Ask me how I know this. (Well, don't ask. Just use your imagination. {Well, don't do that either. Just trust me.})
Muttley
May 11th 20, 03:48 PM
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 4:28:52 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> >
> > Toothpicks and combs absolute essentials!
>
> Never thought of those as essential survival items.
>
> What's the theory?
>
> Being presentable might increase your chance of hitchhiking out?
>
> Maybe I need to go add something to my kit.
It is for the feel good factor, or may be a bit of a joke!
Dyintolaughagain
May 11th 20, 08:28 PM
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 8:36:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> You can definitely carry some, but you might want to replace it from time to time.
>
> Well, it's not exactly meant to be reused. I pack as much as I think I will need, add a safety factor, double that and then vacuum bag it. This might not be the best place for a product recommendation, but a Foodsaver vacuum bagger can maintain the viability and longevity of a number of space critical survival supplies. Don't forget the survival knife, as even a mountain lion would have a hard time opening a Foodsaver bag without chewing it into shreds.
>
> PS. Open the bag before you need it! Ask me how I know this. (Well, don't ask. Just use your imagination. {Well, don't do that either. Just trust me..})
Markm; You're not only a talented engineer, but a comedian as well! How about assembling a list of your best one-liners to keep us in good humor?
Ron Gleason
May 11th 20, 08:35 PM
On Monday, 11 May 2020 13:28:35 UTC-6, Dyintolaughagain wrote:
> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 8:36:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > You can definitely carry some, but you might want to replace it from time to time.
> >
> > Well, it's not exactly meant to be reused. I pack as much as I think I will need, add a safety factor, double that and then vacuum bag it. This might not be the best place for a product recommendation, but a Foodsaver vacuum bagger can maintain the viability and longevity of a number of space critical survival supplies. Don't forget the survival knife, as even a mountain lion would have a hard time opening a Foodsaver bag without chewing it into shreds.
> >
> > PS. Open the bag before you need it! Ask me how I know this. (Well, don't ask. Just use your imagination. {Well, don't do that either. Just trust me.})
>
> Markm; You're not only a talented engineer, but a comedian as well! How about assembling a list of your best one-liners to keep us in good humor?
Be careful what you ask for!
Look at it this way:
What will kill me the fastest:
1. Severe injury (might bleed out in minutes)
2. Exposure (cold water/weather: hypothermia minutes to hours)
3. Dehydration (a day or so in a hot desert, not a factor in a wet place even if the water is "undrinkable")
4. Starvation (we all hope we a never stranded this long!)
Now, Are you with your ship?
1. Landout. Yea, lots of stuff here! (Or there should be) Well, maybe. Did you landout in a very bad way? See #1 above)
2. Bailed out? Maybe or maybe not (assuming you did not break your legs landing in the rocks and can reach it.
So what is REALLY important to have on your body?
1. A method to signal (A PLB is my choice, DUCT TAPED to your body! I want the full force of all my tax dollars coming to get me) And this is in addition to the ELT in the glider. Give S&R multiple reasons to come play in the woods)
1. (Yes A second #1) A good whistle (Fox 40). Yelling just does not travel far. A good whistle will not be missed by S&R. And someplace you can get to it while hanging in your chute in a 100 ft tree. Mine is tied to my chute harness and tucked into the riser covers.
2. A basic severe trauma kit (i.e. tourniquet and strong narcotic pain killers)
3. Some basic shelter: chute+mylar/polycro (window film at big box store, strong, light, small, cheap) will protect you from wind/rain
4. A way to start a BIG fire. Really. Burn the forest down. S&R is too slow (Sorry S&R guys, you do some amazing work, but often you have no idea of where the victim is). Start a big fire and the WILL showup to investigate/extinguish it. Yea, a bit extreme, but keep it as an option. Oh, and can you actually start a fire (a small one to keep warm) if you had to? If you are not absolutely sure you can in really crappy weather, now is the time figure it out. A BIC lighter will be really nice to have as will #5 below)
5. Bonus: A knife (small folder, geeze, no fixed blades to stab you in the crash). BTW: this is in addition to the HOOK KNIFE ON YOUR CHUTE unless you like the ride for life across the Nevada desert behind you chute you cannot collapse in 40 KT winds.
My 2 Cents worth.
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
May 12th 20, 06:19 PM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 3:39:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
Quick, what side of the tree does moss grow on?
Tom
===========================
It depends.
North if north of the equator.
South if south of the equator.
Either way nearby the equator (depends on the time of the year)
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 12th 20, 10:02 PM
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:19:38 AM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 3:39:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> Quick, what side of the tree does moss grow on?
>
> Tom
>
> ===========================
>
> It depends.
>
> North if north of the equator.
> South if south of the equator.
> Either way nearby the equator (depends on the time of the year)
It also depends on local shade in that spot in the forrest. Moss likes wet..
Here's why I don't recommend a compass:
1) Most people have no idea how to properly navigate in the backcountry by compass. You need to know how to shoot bearings, triangulate, understand contour lines, measure distance, etc. Without prior orienteering experience, a compass isn't very useful.
2) A compass should really be used with a particular type of map, such as a USG map with 1:24000 scale and 100ft contour lines. You'll also want a pencil and an altimeter is very helpful too. Given the possible range of soaring flights, you'd need to carr a bunch of maps in your bailout kit. Then, you'd need to change out your map collection whenever you fly at a new location.
3) Even if you have the necessary maps and skills, GPS works sooooooo much better than a mechanical compass.
4) I'm pretty well covered by my other devices. In fact, my Garmin InReach has a compass. Even without GPS signal, it provides a working compass, barometric altimeter, and topo maps. My phone also has GPS, compass, and topo maps. I also have an inclinometer app that I use to evaluate avalanche risk. Don't feel comfortable with only two navigation devices? Get a Garmin watch!
Anyways, my advice is to have at least two navigation devices. These should be fast, accurate, and easy to use, which rules out a magnetic compass for most people.
CindyB[_2_]
May 12th 20, 11:36 PM
If you would like some added perspective on these topics, tune in here:
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/4452271532767427600?source=r.a.s.
It begins at 7pm cdt , in about an hour and a half. Free.
Good for Wings Program credit if you use same email account for faa and this registration.
Some recounts from folks who've done this stuff for real, landout, hostile place, S&R involved.
Or, login, listen, and post all your gripes about it back here later. Your choice.
Cindy B
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
May 13th 20, 12:04 AM
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 5:36:40 PM UTC-5, CindyB wrote:
> If you would like some added perspective on these topics, tune in here:
>
> https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/4452271532767427600?source=r.a.s.
>
> It begins at 7pm cdt , in about an hour and a half. Free.
> Good for Wings Program credit if you use same email account for faa and this registration.
>
> Some recounts from folks who've done this stuff for real, landout, hostile place, S&R involved.
>
> Or, login, listen, and post all your gripes about it back here later. Your choice.
>
> Cindy B
My presentation will be about my research into, and comparisons of, the different types of emergency location devices. I will also talk about what you might want to carry on your person during a bail out.
Full disclosure that I have never had a bail out, been involved in a search and rescue event, nor landed out in any experience worse than a soft farmer's field and a quick retrieve. I've been lucky thus far. But I was a boy scout so I want to "be prepared".
Hope you can attend.
- John DeRosa OHM Ω
Mike N.
May 13th 20, 02:06 AM
Any comments on static lines?
My S-H glider has an in cockpit attachment point for a static line.
I am interested in comments on bailing out in am emergency.
Not as interested in the captain obvious comments like "you could accidentally open your chute after a normal landing getting out of your glider". That is implicit and obvious.
Thoughts on actual emergency bailouts, static line versus regular D handle?
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 3:03:40 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Here's why I don't recommend a compass:
>
> 1) Most people have no idea how to properly navigate in the backcountry by compass. You need to know how to shoot bearings, triangulate, understand contour lines, measure distance, etc. Without prior orienteering experience, a compass isn't very useful.
>
> 2) A compass should really be used with a particular type of map, such as a USG map with 1:24000 scale and 100ft contour lines. You'll also want a pencil and an altimeter is very helpful too. Given the possible range of soaring flights, you'd need to carr a bunch of maps in your bailout kit. Then, you'd need to change out your map collection whenever you fly at a new location.
>
> 3) Even if you have the necessary maps and skills, GPS works sooooooo much better than a mechanical compass.
>
> 4) I'm pretty well covered by my other devices. In fact, my Garmin InReach has a compass. Even without GPS signal, it provides a working compass, barometric altimeter, and topo maps. My phone also has GPS, compass, and topo maps. I also have an inclinometer app that I use to evaluate avalanche risk. Don't feel comfortable with only two navigation devices? Get a Garmin watch!
>
> Anyways, my advice is to have at least two navigation devices. These should be fast, accurate, and easy to use, which rules out a magnetic compass for most people.
All of those things are fine nav aids - when they work. Batteries die and canyons and trees block GPS reception. A magnetic compass WILL work virtually all of the time. Maps can be carried electronically in a smart phone or a tablet. I like backups if the **** hits the fan. As with anything, practice is highly recommended BEFORE your life depends upon it.
Tom
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 9:06:29 PM UTC-4, Mike N. wrote:
> Any comments on static lines?
>
> My S-H glider has an in cockpit attachment point for a static line.
>
> I am interested in comments on bailing out in am emergency.
> Not as interested in the captain obvious comments like "you could accidentally open your chute after a normal landing getting out of your glider". That is implicit and obvious.
>
> Thoughts on actual emergency bailouts, static line versus regular D handle?
It is a good idea, it will be much faster. No one in the US, including me, knows much about them. Talk to the manufacturer both glider and parachute and your rigger there is more than one way to attach the static line. The only thing I would caution is when you review bailout procedures plan to pull the ripcord yourself, just in case you didn't clip on the static line on the day you need it. If it is hooked up it will be open before you have your head together.
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
May 13th 20, 04:50 PM
FYI - The presentation from last night's SSA Webinar "Emergency Locator Devices & Other Safety Equipment" is available at http://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations/#emergency_location_devices.
In the near future the recording of the webinar will be available at https://www.ssa.org/Webinars. The recording adds much to the dry presentation by showcasing the real-world comments from David Lessnick's landout experiences using several emergency location devices.
- John DeRosa OHM Ω
Jonathan St. Cloud
May 13th 20, 10:53 PM
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 6:22:22 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 3:03:40 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > Here's why I don't recommend a compass:
> >
> > 1) Most people have no idea how to properly navigate in the backcountry by compass. You need to know how to shoot bearings, triangulate, understand contour lines, measure distance, etc. Without prior orienteering experience, a compass isn't very useful.
> >
> > 2) A compass should really be used with a particular type of map, such as a USG map with 1:24000 scale and 100ft contour lines. You'll also want a pencil and an altimeter is very helpful too. Given the possible range of soaring flights, you'd need to carr a bunch of maps in your bailout kit. Then, you'd need to change out your map collection whenever you fly at a new location.
> >
> > 3) Even if you have the necessary maps and skills, GPS works sooooooo much better than a mechanical compass.
> >
> > 4) I'm pretty well covered by my other devices. In fact, my Garmin InReach has a compass. Even without GPS signal, it provides a working compass, barometric altimeter, and topo maps. My phone also has GPS, compass, and topo maps. I also have an inclinometer app that I use to evaluate avalanche risk. Don't feel comfortable with only two navigation devices? Get a Garmin watch!
> >
> > Anyways, my advice is to have at least two navigation devices. These should be fast, accurate, and easy to use, which rules out a magnetic compass for most people.
>
> All of those things are fine nav aids - when they work. Batteries die and canyons and trees block GPS reception. A magnetic compass WILL work virtually all of the time. Maps can be carried electronically in a smart phone or a tablet. I like backups if the **** hits the fan. As with anything, practice is highly recommended BEFORE your life depends upon it.
>
> Tom
One should make your sight picture as large as possible (spread out chute) and stay with the aircraft unless you have a great idea or need. If you are going to move, generally you follow drainage so a compass doesn't mean ****. I have one on my paracord bracelet, doubt I would ever use it. The only time I have ever used one in a glider was to figure runway direction from a vertical card compass. If you are in flat land a compass would be darn handy though.
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 8:09:11 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
>
> It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
>
> I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
>
> Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
Long ago, I attended an AOPA "after the crash" seminar. As a result of that seminar, I purchased a fly fishing vest for xc flights. It's cotton, short-waisted (more comfy for sitting) and has loads of pockets. More recently, the Dan Bass interview on General Aviation newstalk emphasized to me that anything that is not physically attached to your body at the time of crash/bailout/whatever, will never be found again. I also bought a garmin in-reach (which I have yet to activate since i havent planned any xc flights so far in this season).
To be fair, I havent tested my vest under my bailout chute, but it should fit.
Also, don't forget spare glasses! Odds are pretty good that I'd lose my glasses during a bail out and I'm pretty handicapped without them. I actually just added disposable contacts to my bail out kit because they're a lot smaller than my spare glasses.
I always fly with spare bail-out reading specs in a zipped pocket. Very narrow ones that fit in a hard case not much bigger than a fountain pen. Without specs nowadays I wouldn't be able to text, or work my mobile or InReach.
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 8:09:11 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
> >
> > It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
> >
> > I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
> >
> > Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
> >
> > Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
>
> Long ago, I attended an AOPA "after the crash" seminar. As a result of that seminar, I purchased a fly fishing vest for xc flights. It's cotton, short-waisted (more comfy for sitting) and has loads of pockets. More recently, the Dan Bass interview on General Aviation newstalk emphasized to me that anything that is not physically attached to your body at the time of crash/bailout/whatever, will never be found again. I also bought a garmin in-reach (which I have yet to activate since i havent planned any xc flights so far in this season).
>
> To be fair, I havent tested my vest under my bailout chute, but it should fit.
A better option is an aviation flight suit.
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
May 19th 20, 02:23 AM
Another pant choice is those for sailors that have zippered pockets.
Helly-Hansen Mens HP Foil Pant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LFWMR4X/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ysZWEbZ5GJMPQ
Muttley
May 19th 20, 06:03 PM
On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 2:23:56 AM UTC+1, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Another pant choice is those for sailors that have zippered pockets.
>
> Helly-Hansen Mens HP Foil Pant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LFWMR4X/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ysZWEbZ5GJMPQ
check out special Glider Pilot clothing at
https://www.milvus.aero/english/
Muttley
Hightime
May 19th 20, 08:22 PM
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 7:09:11 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I attended Dave Nadler's presentation at the 2020 SSA Convention about his bailout in Utah and its aftermath https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0&t=3s
>
> It got me thinking about my own preparedness, and I have to admit that I am not carrying enough on my person if I ever "have to go for help." (As our ex-Air Force airport manager describes a bailout.)
>
> I've been thinking about fishing/photographers vests with a lot of pockets, but the parachute and seat belt harness straps interfere with comfort and safety. Small kits like the SMAK PAK are a good start, but I'd like to carry more stuff, like a hat, spare glasses, water etc. I am thinking of an Air Force type flight suit with leg pockets, at the risk of being called a fighter jock wannabe.
>
> Possibly a thin pocketed backpack that could fit between the 'chute and your body, if it could be made comfortable and not interfere with the seating position in the glider would work. But what to put in it and how to you pack it to avoid lumps and stuff digging into your kidneys?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions? What works for you?
I have a survival kit in the glider but always fly with a lighter in my sock,thats not enough but its something
On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 10:03:15 AM UTC-7, Muttley wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 2:23:56 AM UTC+1, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > Another pant choice is those for sailors that have zippered pockets.
> >
> > Helly-Hansen Mens HP Foil Pant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LFWMR4X/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ysZWEbZ5GJMPQ
>
> check out special Glider Pilot clothing at
>
>
> https://www.milvus.aero/english/
>
> Muttley
I own plenty of lightweight synthetic clothing for hiking/climbing. This has always been great for flying sailplanes as well.
I'm currently fixing up a Pik-20E. I'll be sitting against a 40 year-old fuel tank, with no firewall, while the 2-stroke engine slowly rattles things apart and occassionally cracks the exhaust. This has made me rethink my clothing. In the event of a fire, my normal synthetic attire would melt to my skin! A Nomex flight suit would provide a bit more fire protection and there would be plenty of pockets for survival gear. Does anyone know if Nomex will keep you warm if it gets wet?
Scott Williams[_2_]
May 20th 20, 12:20 AM
Others may have more direct experience, but when I was a CFR/ARRF firefighter, I seem to remember Nomex was similar to cotton of similar weight (not like blue jeans) But that it died faster. However, I was never subjected to long term exposure.
If I flew a glider with gasoline on board, a surplus Nomex flight suit would be my first choice. Cotton second, and I never wear artificial fibers like polyester.
Way too flammable!
Good Lift,
Scott
On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 4:20:45 PM UTC-7, Scott Williams wrote:
> Others may have more direct experience, but when I was a CFR/ARRF firefighter, I seem to remember Nomex was similar to cotton of similar weight (not like blue jeans) But that it died faster. However, I was never subjected to long term exposure.
> If I flew a glider with gasoline on board, a surplus Nomex flight suit would be my first choice. Cotton second, and I never wear artificial fibers like polyester.
> Way too flammable!
> Good Lift,
> Scott
Here is an account of a pilot who survived a crash in the Sierra Nevadas and hiked for NINE DAYS to get help. His two passengers also survived the crash, but died before help came. His account of how the accident happened isn't believable and is contradicted by the evidence, but his hike out was real. ABC's 20/20 program, which I watched, took him back to the crash site and followed his trek out of the mountains. He had crack ribs, sprained ankle and a dislocated shoulder. He was not dressed for the conditions (winter time). That he made it out is a true miracle. If he had a handheld radio he could have contacted search and rescue shortly after the crash and, perhaps, the passengers could have been saved. Even a signal mirror could have summoned help. And a compass would have been very helpful.
https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20001206X02613&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-12-10-me-7204-story.html
https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/6qv04SGbuEoC?hl=en&gbpv=1
Michael Opitz
May 20th 20, 02:07 AM
I own plenty of lightweight synthetic clothing for hiking/climbing. This
has always been great for flying sailplanes as well. I'm currently fixing
up a Pik-20E. I'll be sitting against a 40 year-old fuel tank, with no
firewall, while the 2-stroke engine slowly rattles things apart and
occasionally cracks the exhaust. This has made me rethink my clothing.
In the event of a fire, my normal synthetic attire would melt to my skin!
A Nomex flight suit would provide a bit more fire protection and there
would be plenty of pockets for survival gear. Does anyone know if
Nomex will keep you warm if it gets wet?
>
Nomex isn't like polypropylene where it wicks the the water from
your body to create an air insulating layer. It seems to dry faster
than cotton, but I'd say that will not keep you warm if it is wet.
Most of my past experience with wet flight suits was in hot
environments though, and I can't really recall having to deal with
a wet flight suit in the cold. If it was really cold, we had Nomex
thermal underwear and cold weather flight gear, but none of
that stuff is supposed to act like Gore-Tex, etc at all. For flying over
cold water, etc, there are anti-exposure (dry suits) that are worn
over the top of flight suits. When I went through USAF survival
school during a long ago February in Spokane, WA, we wore khaki
cotton fatigues, and not flight suits. On the other hand, when I
then later went Homestead, FL for water survival training in July,
we wore our flight suits while jumping in and out of 88 degree
water... FWIW...
RO
jackson maddux
May 20th 20, 04:46 AM
I attended a talk by Chuck Cook, who survived a crash landing in a T-28 in 2018. He was wearing a nomex suit with shorts, T-shirt and leather lace up low-top shoes. He did not have nomex gloves. He did not have a nomex balaclava, only a fighter helmet.
He brought his nomex suit with him to the talk. It looked largely intact, except where they cut it away from his body.
The only parts of him that did not have severe 2nd degree and 3rd degree burns were the parts that had clothing underneath. He lost multiple fingers and toes, and his face was basically burned off. He has vision today only because the doctors tried an experimental placental stem cell treatment.
Takeaway: nomex only works if it’s part of a total system that includes long sleeve shirt, long pants, nomex gloves, nomex socks, nomex boots, and a nomex balaclava. I doubt that any glider pilot would want all that gear on unless they were going above 8000-10,000 feet.
Having worn nomex for civil air patrol flights, I can attest that it doesn’t breath and this makes it hot in the summertime.
J M
link to Chuck’s story:
https://midwestflyer.com/?p=12924
Luc Job[_2_]
May 20th 20, 01:55 PM
For me it really depends on where you fly... The Nambia desert isn't the same as the Alps where SAR is available within minutes... As soon as they are aware of an emergency.
What is my absolute minimum to carry in my pockets is a knife and the loudest whistle you can find.
Even in the Alps the cellular coverage is doubtful... And I'm still using the phone to fly, so it's not on me... But it's quite likely that anywhere in the mountains some ears will be in range of a good whistle.
I learned this a long time ago, a friend of mine spend 3 days in the debris of his glider, with both legs broken, drowned into a thick fog layer that formed from wet maritime air flowing through the coast... On final glide, when he was able to notice that he was too far down the long valley after the pass to return and crashed into the trees... Even the ELT was broken at impact...
SAR operations were impaired by the fog and could only take place on ground and started the same day at the right place... approximately.
With a whistle, he would have been found less than 1 hour after the beginning of the operation... They found him by chance, going down to stop the search... He fully recovered and is still flying, not without a whistle...
Yeah, that's a pretty darn good argument for a whistle!
On Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 5:55:10 AM UTC-7, Luc Job wrote:
> For me it really depends on where you fly... The Nambia desert isn't the same as the Alps where SAR is available within minutes... As soon as they are aware of an emergency.
>
> What is my absolute minimum to carry in my pockets is a knife and the loudest whistle you can find.
>
> Even in the Alps the cellular coverage is doubtful... And I'm still using the phone to fly, so it's not on me... But it's quite likely that anywhere in the mountains some ears will be in range of a good whistle.
>
> I learned this a long time ago, a friend of mine spend 3 days in the debris of his glider, with both legs broken, drowned into a thick fog layer that formed from wet maritime air flowing through the coast... On final glide, when he was able to notice that he was too far down the long valley after the pass to return and crashed into the trees... Even the ELT was broken at impact...
>
> SAR operations were impaired by the fog and could only take place on ground and started the same day at the right place... approximately.
>
> With a whistle, he would have been found less than 1 hour after the beginning of the operation... They found him by chance, going down to stop the search... He fully recovered and is still flying, not without a whistle...
A whistle is good for searches on the ground and within a mile of your location - airborne SAR won't hear it, but they can see a signal mirror. Better yet, carry a handheld.
Tom
John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
June 2nd 20, 12:56 AM
Two comments about cell phones;
1) Put it in a zippered pocket so if you have to bail out it might go missing when you need it most. Then what use would it be?
2) Put it in "airplane" mode or you might find that the battery is low or dead when you need it most. Then what use would it be?
On Monday, June 1, 2020 at 4:56:53 PM UTC-7, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Two comments about cell phones;
>
> 1) Put it in a zippered pocket so if you have to bail out it might go missing when you need it most. Then what use would it be?
>
> 2) Put it in "airplane" mode or you might find that the battery is low or dead when you need it most. Then what use would it be?
Better yet, turn it off.
SS
August 5th 20, 10:08 PM
Does anybody wear a paracord belt? Big, functional version of a paracord bracelet, with about 30 meters of paracord.
> Better yet, turn it off.
I understand the "turn it off" suggestion, but if I need to make an emergency call, I don't want to wait for the boot up time.
Bob Youngblood
August 5th 20, 11:05 PM
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 5:18:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Better yet, turn it off.
>
> I understand the "turn it off" suggestion, but if I need to make an emergency call, I don't want to wait for the boot up time.
What you need is a gun, Sig P365 will be just fine, have a cell phone and SPOT. After you get home you will need a stiff drink, rum and coke will do just keep in mind that this can happen again. Bob
Dan Marotta
August 5th 20, 11:47 PM
That's right, Mark.* Sometimes my phone boots up in less than a minute,
and sometimes it takes 30 minutes.* Don't know why.* Anyway, I set mine
to airplane mode before take off.
On 8/5/2020 3:18 PM, wrote:
>> Better yet, turn it off.
> I understand the "turn it off" suggestion, but if I need to make an emergency call, I don't want to wait for the boot up time.
>
--
Dan, 5J
"Does anybody wear a paracord belt?"
I'm certain of few things on the topic of bail out and survival, but one thing I am certain of is that if I survive the mid-air and decent under canopy the last thing I expect to be in short supply of is paracord.
-Doug
Scott Williams[_2_]
August 6th 20, 01:50 AM
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 7:35:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> "Does anybody wear a paracord belt?"
> I'm certain of few things on the topic of bail out and survival, but one thing I am certain of is that if I survive the mid-air and decent under canopy the last thing I expect to be in short supply of is paracord.
> -Doug
I once heard that Strong parachute company would give you a new 'chute if you used their brand in an emergency bailout. Probably in exchange for your story.
If that's true, make sure you have a Knife!!
Scott
RR
August 6th 20, 01:55 AM
Not paranoid but amsteel (1800 lb breaking strength) with a Ferrocenium buckle (fire starter). And my Leatherman wave and flashlight attached to it. All I need is some of that dehydrated water and I'm all set...
2G
August 6th 20, 02:34 AM
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 2:18:06 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > Better yet, turn it off.
>
> I understand the "turn it off" suggestion, but if I need to make an emergency call, I don't want to wait for the boot up time.
Can't wait for it to boot up, but can wait for people to find you after your cell phone battery dies. What's wrong with this picture?
> Can't wait for it to boot up, but can wait for people to find you after your cell phone battery dies. What's wrong with this picture?
I carry a small emergency battery and charge cable. Also works with the InReach.
Roy B.
August 6th 20, 04:01 AM
In my bailout/landout kit: Pencil, pen, notepad, small pack of kleenex, butane lighter, Leatherman tool, cell phone charger & cord, Tylenol, anti diarrhea pills, Tost ring, sunscreen, bug repellent, hat, signal mirror, flashlight, headlamp (with strobe), spare batteries, ACR PLB, Yaesu radio and some currency for whatever country I am flying in.
Some of this string reminds me of the W.C. Fields story about him keeping a flask of whiskey in his golf bag pocket, "to settle his nerves in case he saw a snake". In a different pocket, he kept a snake . . .
ROY
Ben Hirashima
August 6th 20, 04:02 AM
I fly in the Sierras in the summer, and take bailout survival seriously. My survival strategy is #1 survive the first hours after impact, #2 get help quick. If I survive the impact, the next most likely thing to kill me is bleeding, so I carry a tourniquet and a blood clotting sponge, for wounds on the head or neck where a tourniquet cannot be applied. For #2, I carry a Garmin InReach Mini and a ACR ResQLink PLB as backup. Garmin recently had a long service outage, and I'm glad I'm not completely reliant on them. Also, one of the devices could be damaged in the crash/landing so it's good to have backup. Unfortunately, SAR can take a while and the next most serious threat is exposure. For that, I carry a survival blanket, for warmth at night and shade during the day. All my gear is carried in the zippered pockets of my REI Sahara cargo pants, with the exception of the InReach, which is attached to my parachute by a carbiner. Anything not in a zippered pocket is unlikely to still be with me after a bailout. One thing I'm missing is a backup pair of glasses, since my prescription sunglasses will definitely be lost. I'm going to pop one of the lenses out of an old pair of glasses and carry that with me. It will be compact, and allow me to see into the distance well enough if I really need to. I'm also going to add a lighter, to be able to generate smoke/light in case both satellite options fail.
2G
August 6th 20, 04:54 AM
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 8:02:24 PM UTC-7, Ben Hirashima wrote:
> I fly in the Sierras in the summer, and take bailout survival seriously. My survival strategy is #1 survive the first hours after impact, #2 get help quick. If I survive the impact, the next most likely thing to kill me is bleeding, so I carry a tourniquet and a blood clotting sponge, for wounds on the head or neck where a tourniquet cannot be applied. For #2, I carry a Garmin InReach Mini and a ACR ResQLink PLB as backup. Garmin recently had a long service outage, and I'm glad I'm not completely reliant on them. Also, one of the devices could be damaged in the crash/landing so it's good to have backup. Unfortunately, SAR can take a while and the next most serious threat is exposure. For that, I carry a survival blanket, for warmth at night and shade during the day. All my gear is carried in the zippered pockets of my REI Sahara cargo pants, with the exception of the InReach, which is attached to my parachute by a carbiner. Anything not in a zippered pocket is unlikely to still be with me after a bailout. One thing I'm missing is a backup pair of glasses, since my prescription sunglasses will definitely be lost. I'm going to pop one of the lenses out of an old pair of glasses and carry that with me. It will be compact, and allow me to see into the distance well enough if I really need to. I'm also going to add a lighter, to be able to generate smoke/light in case both satellite options fail.
Keep in mind that the odds of a bailout are extremely low. But the odds of landing out (including a crash landing) are much higher. That said, I do know pilots who bailed out. One was very near the airport and hiked out until he found someone who could give him a lift to the airport. I am a little concerned that loading yourself up with a lot of stuff might hinder your exit from the cockpit should you actually have to bailout. The pilot I mentioned found it very difficult to reach the canopy eject latches - more weight on his body may have made it impossible.
Tom
Dan Marotta
August 6th 20, 04:22 PM
Old glasses lenses...* Now THAT is a great idea!
On 8/5/2020 9:02 PM, Ben Hirashima wrote:
> I fly in the Sierras in the summer, and take bailout survival seriously. My survival strategy is #1 survive the first hours after impact, #2 get help quick. If I survive the impact, the next most likely thing to kill me is bleeding, so I carry a tourniquet and a blood clotting sponge, for wounds on the head or neck where a tourniquet cannot be applied. For #2, I carry a Garmin InReach Mini and a ACR ResQLink PLB as backup. Garmin recently had a long service outage, and I'm glad I'm not completely reliant on them. Also, one of the devices could be damaged in the crash/landing so it's good to have backup. Unfortunately, SAR can take a while and the next most serious threat is exposure. For that, I carry a survival blanket, for warmth at night and shade during the day. All my gear is carried in the zippered pockets of my REI Sahara cargo pants, with the exception of the InReach, which is attached to my parachute by a carbiner. Anything not in a zippered pocket is unlikely to still be with me after a bailout. One thing I'm missing is a backup pair of glasses, since my prescription sunglasses will definitely be lost. I'm going to pop one of the lenses out of an old pair of glasses and carry that with me. It will be compact, and allow me to see into the distance well enough if I really need to. I'm also going to add a lighter, to be able to generate smoke/light in case both satellite options fail.
--
Dan, 5J
I agree that any change you make to your equipment that might affect canopy ejection, bailout or ripcord actuation needs to be assessed. Practice all of the procedures regularly on the ground (except for actual parachute deployment, unless it is scheduled for a repack, in which case finding and pulling the handle is a good exercise in familiarization).
As I get older, I often put myself through rapid egress exercises on both sides of the cockpit to make sure my strength remains adequate for the task. And I commit to a fast reach for the ripcord handle with both hands prior to every flight.
SS
August 6th 20, 10:44 PM
On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 6:35:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> "Does anybody wear a paracord belt?"
> I'm certain of few things on the topic of bail out and survival, but one thing I am certain of is that if I survive the mid-air and decent under canopy the last thing I expect to be in short supply of is paracord.
> -Doug
A parachute has paracords :-)? You're much more likely to landout than bailout into a nasty place. The point simply is that if someone wears a paracord bracelet as part of their survival gear, a paracord belt might be a logical upgrade.
September 3rd 20, 02:41 AM
Here's a picture of my bailout kit: https://i.imgur.com/KvUY5Co.jpg
I found a handy pouch that attaches securely to my parachute shoulder strap.. I added zip ties to make sure that it can't fall off. It has a pouch for my InReach, and a second pouch for the following:
Two Whirl Pak water storage bags (can also be used over socks when trudging through snow)
Water purification tablets
Petzl emergency headlamp (27grams, and can be stored w/ battery for 10 years)
Bic Mini lighter, spark wheel, tinder
Waterproof paper + shortened pen (Wet Notes)
First aid kit
3ft bright yellow duct tape
8ft orange streamer
Emergency blanket
Mini signal mirror
Knife (Gerber STL 2.0, 1oz)
Snack Bar (not really necessary, but it fit nicely)
In addition, I fly in gortex hiking shoes and synthetic clothing; basically, whatever I'd want to hike in. I also carry my phone in a zippered pocket, and my phone has Gaia (backcountry navigation), compass, and inclinometer apps. The parachute itself is an excellent source of cord, insulation, or shelter.
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