Iowa City Airport in the News

[John Galban]

I read an article in the GA News last night about the Iowa City
airport. Seems the airport struck a deal with Wal-Mart. They sold 22
acres of airport land to Wal-Mart for a Supercenter. The sale
apparently pays off the airport's massive debt and allows airport
revenue to now go towards airport improvements.

Local business owner and member of "Friends of the Iowa City
Airport", Jay Honeck was heavily quoted throughout the article.

Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
airport to bail itself out is also handy.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[john smith]

John Galban wrote:
> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
> airport to bail itself out is also handy.

And, they will be frequent user of the airport.

[John E. Carty]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> John Galban wrote:
>> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
>> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
>> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
>> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>
> And, they will be frequent user of the airport.

How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???

[H.P.]

>How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???

For starters, Wal-Mart's HQ and regional/area/zone executives, buyers,
managers and suppliers, and others who have legitimate business with
Wal-Mart will be flying in.

PLUS union organizers, democrats, lame stream media, food police, PETA,
Serial ADA Plaintiffs, Al Sharpton and the other unwashed members of "The
National Junta of Ersatz Victims of Wal-Mart Who Have No Other Job Than To
Complain With Envy About The Company's Success-" ...and the mother of Jesse
Jackson's illegitimate child... will be using the airport as well. Sounds
like a new airport hotel may be needed. Jay?








"John E. Carty" > wrote in message
...
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John Galban wrote:
>>> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
>>> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
>>> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
>>> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>>
>> And, they will be frequent user of the airport.
>
> How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???
>

[Brian Sponcil]

It's good in the short term but I don't think the long term prognosis for
the IC airport is any better and in fact now may be worse. In the past 10
years the airport has slowly been surrounded by Menards, Staples, Cub Foods,
Wal-Mart, Toyota and now Super Wal-Mart. A new road has been built
circumnavigating the airport (permanently closing a runway) and business
along side it are soon to follow. With each new business the property will
values creep ever higher and the logical end to this, it seems to me, is a
developer will eventually go in front of city council and offer big $$ to
convert the airport to <insert large property tax paying corp here>. It'll
probably take another 10 years, but my guess is IOW is slowly sinking to its
inevitable demise.

Just my $.02

-Brian
Iowa City, IA

"John Galban" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I read an article in the GA News last night about the Iowa City
> airport. Seems the airport struck a deal with Wal-Mart. They sold 22
> acres of airport land to Wal-Mart for a Supercenter. The sale
> apparently pays off the airport's massive debt and allows airport
> revenue to now go towards airport improvements.
>
> Local business owner and member of "Friends of the Iowa City
> Airport", Jay Honeck was heavily quoted throughout the article.
>
> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>

[Jay Honeck]

> PLUS union organizers, democrats, lame stream media, food police, PETA,
> Serial ADA Plaintiffs, Al Sharpton and the other unwashed members of "The
> National Junta of Ersatz Victims of Wal-Mart Who Have No Other Job Than To
> Complain With Envy About The Company's Success-" ...and the mother of
> Jesse
> Jackson's illegitimate child... will be using the airport as well.
> Sounds
> like a new airport hotel may be needed. Jay?

It's been a long, wild ride with Wal-Mart, and our Airport Commerce Park.
Hang on -- this is a crazy story:

For years our airport has been starved of funds. The city couldn't close
it, but they sure as hell weren't going to support it, either. So, taxiways
deteriorated, runways weren't extended, basic maintenance was cut to the
bone.

The independent Airport Commission -- made up of all volunteers -- decided
the best way around this conundrum was to become self-sufficient. But how?

When the FAA announced in the early '90s that they could no longer support a
third runway at the airport (Rwy 18/36, which is due to be closed next
year), the commission realized its closure could open up some financial
opportunities. So they began looking at the land on the northern edge of
the airport, and realized that they could carve out 50 acres or so, and
create an industrial park, with the intention of leasing the land to
businesses and light industry. This would provide enough income to support
the airport, and in one bold stroke, we would go from being a "welfare
recipient" to total self-sufficiency. They convinced the city of the
perfection of this plan, and -- seeing dollar signs -- the city agreed to
develop the infrastructure, at a cost of many millions of dollars.

Sadly, the volunteer commission -- clearly NOT real-estate moguls -- made a
basic, but HUGE, mistake in their initial calculations. Here's what
happened:

They had figured the size of the property, divided it into sections, figured
out what they would have to get for each plot in order to pay back the
infrastructure loans and generate income, and then divided it into a
"per-square-foot" lease amount. Easy enough.

However, when they sat down with the first potential tenants, the realtor
pointed out all the utility (and other) easements that the commission was
including in their per-square-foot computations! Incredibly, no one in the
city had caught this basic error, and all sorts of finger-pointing ensued.
Finally, after this major oops was acknowledged, they had to pull out many
thousands of square feet from the land they were trying to lease -- which
left their potential income BELOW what it would cost to pay back the
infrastructure loans!

Thus, their only option was to increase the "per-square-foot" lease amount
to allow for the same amount of potential income. Only problem was, this
rate was much higher than any other available land in the area -- so (of
course) no one wanted it. Thus, the terrific idea had become a huge
millstone around the city's (and commission's) neck. Virtually the entire
airport commission ended up resigning in frustration, and acrimony between
the city and airport grew.

That's how thing have sat for five years. Now, with a new and more
politically connected airport commission, relations have improved. And
now, with Wal-Mart stepping up to buy (not lease) the first 21 acre chunk,
the airport is at last on its way to self-sufficiency. (Although many
obstacles remain. They *sold* this land to Wal-Mart, meaning that it's a
one-time shot of money. There is a huge, on-going battle over whether
future sales should be allowed, or whether it should be all leases...)

But the battle isn't over yet. The anti Wal-Mart faction is trying to get
organized -- despite the fact that Wal-Mart has been in Iowa City since the
1980s. In fact, the NEW Wal-Mart is going to be built directly adjacent to
the OLD Wal-Mart -- but, for some reason this gang of disgruntled university
egg-heads is getting all riled up about it anyway. (They are being led by
the same guy who tried -- and failed -- to stop the first Wal-Mart from
coming to Iowa City in the '80s!)

I personally despise Wal-Mart -- shoot, they STILL owe me money from my last
business -- but that's beside the point. They are the most successful
retailer in the world because PEOPLE LOVE TO SHOP THERE. I wish this fact
was pointed out to the anti-Wal-Mart activists on-camera once in a while,
since it would highlight the fact that they are quite blatantly saying that
all Wal-Mart shoppers are too stupid to make their own decisions. But
that's another post...

Bottom line: Our airport could FINALLY be on the path to financial
security, and it will ultimately be ringed by retail (rather than
industrial) interests. This can only be a good thing!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"H.P." > wrote in message
om...
> >How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???
>
> For starters, Wal-Mart's HQ and regional/area/zone executives, buyers,
> managers and suppliers, and others who have legitimate business with
> Wal-Mart will be flying in.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "John E. Carty" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "john smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> John Galban wrote:
>>>> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
>>>> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
>>>> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
>>>> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>>>
>>> And, they will be frequent user of the airport.
>>
>> How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???
>>
>
>

[Ross Richardson]

John Galban wrote:

> I read an article in the GA News last night about the Iowa City
>airport. Seems the airport struck a deal with Wal-Mart. They sold 22
>acres of airport land to Wal-Mart for a Supercenter. The sale
>apparently pays off the airport's massive debt and allows airport
>revenue to now go towards airport improvements.
>
> Local business owner and member of "Friends of the Iowa City
>Airport", Jay Honeck was heavily quoted throughout the article.
>
> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
>better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
>at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
>airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>
>John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>
>
>
Just be careful with the FOD that is generated by the store. Around our
Wal-Mart (and other stores that use them) are plastic sacks. Really
makes the area look bad. I do not understand how they get all over the
place.

[Steve Foley]

I've seen suggestions that when an item has 'too much packaging' you should
remove the packaging in the parking lot and leave it there to 'send a
message' to the store.


"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message
...
> John Galban wrote:
>
> > I read an article in the GA News last night about the Iowa City
> >airport. Seems the airport struck a deal with Wal-Mart. They sold 22
> >acres of airport land to Wal-Mart for a Supercenter. The sale
> >apparently pays off the airport's massive debt and allows airport
> >revenue to now go towards airport improvements.
> >
> > Local business owner and member of "Friends of the Iowa City
> >Airport", Jay Honeck was heavily quoted throughout the article.
> >
> > Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
> >better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
> >at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
> >airport to bail itself out is also handy.
> >
> >John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
> >
> >
> >
> Just be careful with the FOD that is generated by the store. Around our
> Wal-Mart (and other stores that use them) are plastic sacks. Really
> makes the area look bad. I do not understand how they get all over the
> place.

[Morgans]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Bottom line: Our airport could FINALLY be on the path to financial
> security, and it will ultimately be ringed by retail (rather than
> industrial) interests. This can only be a good thing!
> --
> Jay Honeck

And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty good
small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)
--
Jim in NC

[airman]

Now, if only we can convince Wal-Mart to sell AvGas or open a Pilot Shop.
Should have been part of the sales contract.


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> > Bottom line: Our airport could FINALLY be on the path to financial
> > security, and it will ultimately be ringed by retail (rather than
> > industrial) interests. This can only be a good thing!
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
>
> And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty good
> small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Morgans]

"airman" wrote

> Now, if only we can convince Wal-Mart to sell AvGas or open a Pilot Shop.
> Should have been part of the sales contract.
>

Yea, and a place you can get your oil changed, and your tires rotated! :-)
--
Jim in NC

[Jose]

> And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty good
> small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)

I suspect they wouldn't hold up, but does anybody know for sure?

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gene Seibel]

Go to http://registry.faa.gov/arquery.asp and search for the names
WAL-MART and WALMART. I heard of a case where an employee complained
of harrassment and WM had an investigation team from headquarters in
the store before the day was over. Sam Walton puttered around from
store to store in the early days in a Tri-Pacer.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Dave Stadt]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "airman" wrote
>
> > Now, if only we can convince Wal-Mart to sell AvGas or open a Pilot
Shop.
> > Should have been part of the sales contract.
> >
>
> Yea, and a place you can get your oil changed, and your tires rotated!
:-)
> --
> Jim in NC

No way in hell would a minimum wage (or lower) Wal-Mart employee touch
something that my life depended on.

[Morgans]

> > And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty
good
> > small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)
>
> I suspect they wouldn't hold up, but does anybody know for sure?
>
> Jose

I have seen pictures of small planes landing on retail store roofs (or was
it a factory?) before. Not much damage, as long as you don't hit one of
those big AC units! A some factories have big skylights, too. I suspect
that dropping a nosewheel would suck, too!
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

> > Yea, and a place you can get your oil changed, and your tires rotated!
> :-)
> > --
> > Jim in NC
>
> No way in hell would a minimum wage (or lower) Wal-Mart employee touch
> something that my life depended on.
>
Ahh, grasshopper, note the smiley figure. That was the irony.
--
Jim in NC

[Newps]

Morgans wrote:
> > > Yea, and a place you can get your oil changed, and your tires rotated!
>
>>:-)
>>
>>>--
>>>Jim in NC
>>
>>No way in hell would a minimum wage (or lower) Wal-Mart employee touch
>>something that my life depended on.
>>
>
> Ahh, grasshopper, note the smiley figure. That was the irony.


He couldn't help it. He was overcome with his rage against Walmart.

[George Patterson]

Jose wrote:
>> And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty
>> good
>> small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)
>
>
> I suspect they wouldn't hold up, but does anybody know for sure?

Roofs in this area of NJ are designed for a snow load of around 30 pounds per
square foot. I expect they're stronger in Iowa, but they're still not designed
to hold a typical small plane.

George Patterson
Whosoever bloweth not his own horn, the same shall remain unblown.

[H.P.]

OK you can subsidize the employer's wages by a 30% premium to bring them up
to your trailer-park wage level. Next time you call line service for a tow,
tie-down or fill-up, tell them they're not worth the air you'd have to
breath to say they're worthless pieces of s**t. Ensure you do that before
they make the choice between pumping 100LL or JetA in your tanks. Bring cake
for them to eat to get the message across.


"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "airman" wrote
>>
>> > Now, if only we can convince Wal-Mart to sell AvGas or open a Pilot
> Shop.
>> > Should have been part of the sales contract.
>> >
>>
>> Yea, and a place you can get your oil changed, and your tires rotated!
> :-)
>> --
>> Jim in NC
>
> No way in hell would a minimum wage (or lower) Wal-Mart employee touch
> something that my life depended on.
>
>

[Dan Girellini]

George Patterson > writes:

> Jose wrote:
>>> And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty good
>>> small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)
>> I suspect they wouldn't hold up, but does anybody know for sure?
>
> Roofs in this area of NJ are designed for a snow load of around 30 pounds per
> square foot.

Surely they're designed to hold more than that over a smaller area than the
entire roof, though. Otherwise you couldn't even think about standing on them.

> I expect they're stronger in Iowa, but they're still not designed to hold a
> typical small plane.

No doubt.

Dan.

--
PGP key at http://www.longhands.org/drg-pgp.txt Key Id:0x507D93DF

[Dave Stadt]

"H.P." > wrote in message
om...
> OK you can subsidize the employer's wages by a 30% premium to bring them
up
> to your trailer-park wage level. Next time you call line service for a
tow,
> tie-down or fill-up, tell them they're not worth the air you'd have to
> breath to say they're worthless pieces of s**t. Ensure you do that before
> they make the choice between pumping 100LL or JetA in your tanks. Bring
cake
> for them to eat to get the message across.

??????????

>
>
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > "Morgans" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "airman" wrote
> >>
> >> > Now, if only we can convince Wal-Mart to sell AvGas or open a Pilot
> > Shop.
> >> > Should have been part of the sales contract.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yea, and a place you can get your oil changed, and your tires rotated!
> > :-)
> >> --
> >> Jim in NC
> >
> > No way in hell would a minimum wage (or lower) Wal-Mart employee touch
> > something that my life depended on.
> >
> >
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Go to http://registry.faa.gov/arquery.asp and search for the names
> WAL-MART and WALMART. I heard of a case where an employee complained
> of harrassment and WM had an investigation team from headquarters in
> the store before the day was over. Sam Walton puttered around from
> store to store in the early days in a Tri-Pacer.

He also you used to proudly display "Made in America" on the walls of his
stores.

Those were gone before his body was cold in the grave...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Highflyer]

"John E. Carty" > wrote in message
...
>
> "john smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John Galban wrote:
>>> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
>>> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
>>> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
>>> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>>
>> And, they will be frequent user of the airport.
>
> How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???

Sam Walton used to fly all over the place in his TriPacer.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

[Chris]

"Highflyer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John E. Carty" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "john smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> John Galban wrote:
>>>> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
>>>> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
>>>> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow the
>>>> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
>>>
>>> And, they will be frequent user of the airport.
>>
>> How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???
>
> Sam Walton used to fly all over the place in his TriPacer.
>

Nice plane the Tripacer

cb

[Morgans]

"George Patterson" > wrote

> Roofs in this area of NJ are designed for a snow load of around 30 pounds
per
> square foot. I expect they're stronger in Iowa, but they're still not
designed
> to hold a typical small plane.
>
> George Patterson

That is a bit of a missunderstanding. If you had snow, level on the roof,
up to where there was 30 lbs/sq. ft, that would load the roof to a point
that it would do no damage to the roof, and even more significant, it would
not sag more than a certain amount that is determined by a formula, with
span heavily considered. Add on to this, that the design safety margin is
about a factor of two, so you could load the roof to 60 lbs, and the roof
might be close to failing.

This small plane on the roof would have more weight per square foot than the
30 pounds, but would be way less than the amount of weight of the snow in
that span/area.

If the material the deck is made of would be strong enough to spread the
load without failing, it would not be an issue. This is most likely the
case, since the roof deck is made of steel, dense foam, and rubber membrane.
The foam has no strength, but would deform and absorb much of the force of
the impact.

Another thing that was unsaid is that the roof and the plane would need
repair; perhaps considerable repair. It would still beat landing on a
house, or a full parking lot with poles all over, or a street full of cars
and poles and wires. A field would beat the h*ll out of the roof or all of
those other places.

That said, I don't want to be put in the situation of any of the choices,
but the roof landing done under control should not involve any fatalities.
--
Jim in NC

[Matt Whiting]

George Patterson wrote:
> Jose wrote:
>
>>> And what the heck! Another bonus is that WalMart roofs make a pretty
>>> good
>>> small plane emergency landing place! (WINK-GRIN)
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect they wouldn't hold up, but does anybody know for sure?
>
>
> Roofs in this area of NJ are designed for a snow load of around 30
> pounds per square foot. I expect they're stronger in Iowa, but they're
> still not designed to hold a typical small plane.
>
> George Patterson
> Whosoever bloweth not his own horn, the same shall remain unblown.

If the roof sheating can handle the "point" load of the gear, which many
likely can, the overall weight of the plane won't be a problem for the
underlying structure. I would suspect most commercial buildings would
handle a "normal" touchdown of a typical light plane.

Even at 30 psf, a 10x10 patch of roof will hold 3,000 lbs.


Matt

[Blueskies]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:%gn5e.13830$yg7.1799@attbi_s51...
>
> He also you used to proudly display "Made in America" on the walls of his stores.
>

and the sad thing is folks still think they follow that mantra...

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Go to http://registry.faa.gov/arquery.asp and search for the names
> WAL-MART and WALMART. I heard of a case where an employee complained
> of harrassment and WM had an investigation team from headquarters in
> the store before the day was over. Sam Walton puttered around from
> store to store in the early days in a Tri-Pacer.
> --
> Gene Seibel
> Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
> Because I fly, I envy no one.
>

Yep there are countries whose Air Forces have fewer planes than Wal-Mart.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:%gn5e.13830$yg7.1799@attbi_s51...
>
> He also you used to proudly display "Made in America" on the walls of his
> stores.
>
> Those were gone before his body was cold in the grave...

Thing is, many American products were discontinued due to QUALITY issues
(returns seven times the average) not for COST. Further, many such products
are not even made in the US anymore.

ANECDOTE": Our neighbor owns/runs a boutique housewares store. Probably
three our four years ago, my wife was trying to buy a vase and noticed they
were all made in China. She asked if there were others (she was boycotting
China...still does more or less) and the lady said that she always had to
return 3/4ths of the shipments due to poor finish or other such issues, even
ones that cost four or five times as much a comparable ones from China.

In short, the US tried to compete on price instead of quality and wound up
losing on both scores.

[Matt Barrow]

"Highflyer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John E. Carty" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "john smith" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> John Galban wrote:
> >>> Good job Jay! I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but they will be a much
> >>> better airport neighbor than a housing development (a problem we have
> >>> at my airport). The fact that Wal-Mart also has the $$'s to allow
the
> >>> airport to bail itself out is also handy.
> >>
> >> And, they will be frequent user of the airport.
> >
> > How do you figure Wal-Mart will be a frequent user of the airport???
>
> Sam Walton used to fly all over the place in his TriPacer.

Later he had a twin Cessna, a 340 I believe.

[Blanche]

Gig 601XL Builder <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:

>"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
>> Go to http://registry.faa.gov/arquery.asp and search for the names
>> WAL-MART and WALMART. I heard of a case where an employee complained
>> of harrassment and WM had an investigation team from headquarters in
>> the store before the day was over. Sam Walton puttered around from
>> store to store in the early days in a Tri-Pacer.

>Yep there are countries whose Air Forces have fewer planes than Wal-Mart.

(*spit take*)

And BTW, there are few countries with larger navies than Disney.
You can win big money in trivia contests with this fact.

[Morgans]

"Blueskies" > wrote

> and the sad thing is folks still think they follow that mantra...
>
I don't think so. Made in china is proudly stamped in plane view, on most
things.
--
Jim in NC

[videoguy]

"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:JLd5e.55$ff4.33@trndny08...
> I've seen suggestions that when an item has 'too much packaging' you
> should
> remove the packaging in the parking lot and leave it there to 'send a
> message' to the store.

Why?

Can the retailer control how the manufacturer decides to package his
product? I would suggest if you feel this to be a problem, that you
contact the manufacturer and not leave mounds of litter for someone else.
Throwing items on the parking lot only leaves the 'message' that _you_ are
a slob who has no regard for anyone else!

Of course, you probably know that much of what you might consider to be
'too much packaging' is designed to help the product survive transportation
in large sea-going cargo containers, or is a result of attempts by the
manufacturer to provide a more "shop lifter unfriendly" product.

GWK

[Dave Stadt]

"videoguy" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve Foley" > wrote in message
> news:JLd5e.55$ff4.33@trndny08...
> > I've seen suggestions that when an item has 'too much packaging' you
> > should
> > remove the packaging in the parking lot and leave it there to 'send a
> > message' to the store.
>
> Why?
>
> Can the retailer control how the manufacturer decides to package his
> product?

They most certainly can.

I would suggest if you feel this to be a problem, that you
> contact the manufacturer and not leave mounds of litter for someone else.
> Throwing items on the parking lot only leaves the 'message' that _you_
are
> a slob who has no regard for anyone else!
>
> Of course, you probably know that much of what you might consider to be
> 'too much packaging' is designed to help the product survive
transportation
> in large sea-going cargo containers, or is a result of attempts by the
> manufacturer to provide a more "shop lifter unfriendly" product.

And just as often it is simply advertising that just adds cost to the
product.

>
> GWK
>
>

[james]

the onion had a great article a few years back about a guy buying a
phone at radio shack and the process of unwrapping it and how
"entombed" it was in the plastic, styrofoam, etc

i agree some things are ridicously over packed. like things that hang
perfectly well in hard plastic, then a wrapping of printed cardboard
around it, and sometimes wrapped again.

OT - i haven't been to walmart in few years, and last month was at
englewood colorado store looking for vacuum cleaner, i absolutely could
not believe how much trash merchandise was cluttering up the store, end
caps of american idol calendars, cartoon place mats. i can't
understand who would buy that stuff

hate to stereotype but as the t-shirt says WHITE TRASH = ALWAYS

[james]

the onion had a great article a few years back about a guy buying a
phone at radio shack and the process of unwrapping it and how
"entombed" it was in the plastic, styrofoam, etc

i agree some things are ridicously over packed. like things that hang
perfectly well in hard plastic, then a wrapping of printed cardboard
around it, and sometimes wrapped again.

OT - i haven't been to walmart in few years, and last month was at
englewood colorado store looking for vacuum cleaner, i absolutely could
not believe how much trash merchandise was cluttering up the store, end
caps of american idol calendars, cartoon place mats. i can't
understand who would buy that stuff

hate to stereotype but as the t-shirt says WHITE TRASH = ALWAYS

[Cub Driver]

On 13 Apr 2005 19:49:08 -0700, "james" > wrote:

>i agree some things are ridicously over packed. like things that hang
>perfectly well in hard plastic, then a wrapping of printed cardboard
>around it, and sometimes wrapped again.

Try BJ's Wholesale Club and some expensive small item like Prilosec
(over-the-counter drug beloved of pilots because you don't have to
tell the FAA about it). The little box is encased in a transparent
steel (okay, it's plastic, but it very nearly requires a plasma cutter
to open) sandwich that measures about 10 by 20 inches. The detritus
just about fills up my office wastebasket.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Matt Barrow" > wrote:
> In short, the US tried to compete on price instead of quality and wound up
> losing on both scores.

It's difficult to hold people accountable for a quality product when
labor laws protect those people who do not produce a quality product.
It's also difficult to stay in business when your wage-earners aren't
producing enough to make their employment profitable.

To be fair, there are unionized companies who are very successful,
produce high quality products, and are profitable. I suspect a
distinguishing characteristic of these companies is good morale, which
is directly tied to the type of management practiced.



JKG

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote:
>> In short, the US tried to compete on price instead of quality and wound
>> up
>> losing on both scores.
>
> It's difficult to hold people accountable for a quality product when
> labor laws protect those people who do not produce a quality product.
> It's also difficult to stay in business when your wage-earners aren't
> producing enough to make their employment profitable.

I agree with the high wage problem but what labor law are you citing?


>
> To be fair, there are unionized companies who are very successful,
> produce high quality products, and are profitable. I suspect a
> distinguishing characteristic of these companies is good morale, which
> is directly tied to the type of management practiced.
>

I'll agree with that.

[George Patterson]

james wrote:
>
> i agree some things are ridicously over packed. like things that hang
> perfectly well in hard plastic, then a wrapping of printed cardboard
> around it, and sometimes wrapped again.

Personally, I believe that much of the packaging is deliberately designed to
make it impossible for the store to put it back on the shelf if you return it.
My least favorite is the stuff that's in a hard plastic pack that you have to
cut apart in order to remove the item.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article <Iwy7e.15904$up2.5839@okepread01>,
"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote:
> > It's difficult to hold people accountable for a quality product when
> > labor laws protect those people who do not produce a quality product.
> > It's also difficult to stay in business when your wage-earners aren't
> > producing enough to make their employment profitable.
>
> I agree with the high wage problem but what labor law are you citing?


No specific law, but the collective legislation that provides unions
with a monopoly on labor in companies where they successfully organize.



JKG