tow vehicles?

[Stephen Coan]

What do you think is the best tow vehicle for a single place glass sailplane? What is the smallest vehicle one can safely tow with?

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Piper Cub.

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On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 4:25:28 PM UTC-7, Stephen Coan wrote:
> What do you think is the best tow vehicle for a single place glass sailplane? What is the smallest vehicle one can safely tow with?

Depending on the sailplane and trailer, you're probably looking at 1,500 to 2,500 pounds. There are plenty of small vehicles that will tow this much. I've towed with a Honda CR-V (tow capacity 1,500), but the smallest vehicle for the job is unlikely to be the best vehicle for the job.

If you plan to do a lot of towing, especially in mountains, then you probably shouldn't push the tow capacity. I'd personally prefer to have at least 3,000 pounds of tow capacity.

Also, consider how much stuff you want to throw inside the tow vehicle: parachute, oxygen bottle, tool kit, wash bucket, wing stands, etc. Other than that, pick the vehicle that best meets your daily driving needs. Do you need to haul a family? Do you take dirt bikes to the track? Do you drive in much snow?

For most people, a mini van is probably a very practical soaring crew vehicle. The Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey are both highly rated and have tow capacities of 3,500 pounds. They have plenty of room for gear and you can even sleep comfortably in them. If you drive in a lot of snow, the Sienna is available with AWD.

After owning a couple of minivans, I finally upgraded to a full-size Chevy Express AWD. I put in a fridge/freezer (yay ice cream and cold drinks!), sink, stove, outdoor shower, desk, wifi repeater, cell phone booster, Webasto furnace, ceiling fan, LED lights, ARB awning, etc. This vehicle supports all of my hobbies and allows me to spend long weekends in the mountains, at the coast, or at distant gliderports. Last night, I slept in the van with a girlfriend, wing rigger, and climbing gear. We cooked pesto linguini with shrimp, watched a movie with popcorn, and had ice cream for dessert. The furnace kept us warm overnight, and then we woke up at a trail head and started a sunrise climb. This has been my best crew vehicle so far, but certainly not the smallest.

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1/2 ton pickup with a pop top slid in camper . All the conveniences of home, lots of room for all your stuff and decent clearance and power if you have to make a rough retrieve. Dan

[George Haeh]

The 2004-6-8 Subaru Forester has the trailer capacity. Just remember to inflate all 6 tires to manufacturer max.

Manual transmission preferred to auto. In the mountains the auto will be flip-flopping on the way up and there's no transmission fluid temperature display.

Good car for pulling loaded trailers out of freshly disked fields.

You can roll out a double mattress in the back with the seats folded down, but significant others may strongly prefer other accommodations.

You're pushing your luck with a 2-seater. I jackknifed pulling a Puchaz. Read the Cobra manual on bringing a trailer sway under control.

[Stephen Coan]

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 10:22:07 PM UTC-4, George Haeh wrote:
> The 2004-6-8 Subaru Forester has the trailer capacity. Just remember to inflate all 6 tires to manufacturer max.
>
> Manual transmission preferred to auto. In the mountains the auto will be flip-flopping on the way up and there's no transmission fluid temperature display.
>
> Good car for pulling loaded trailers out of freshly disked fields.
>
> You can roll out a double mattress in the back with the seats folded down, but significant others may strongly prefer other accommodations.
>
> You're pushing your luck with a 2-seater. I jackknifed pulling a Puchaz. Read the Cobra manual on bringing a trailer sway under control.

I'm planning on towing a Ventus in a cobra from Utah to Fl. with a 2025 VW GTI. Any issues?

[Tony[_5_]]

My 2014 Subaru Outback 3.6L has been great. "Normally" tow the Cirrus in a Komet, but have towed up to Twin Grobs in box trailer and empty Cobra sized for an Arcus with it. Room to sleep in the back with back seat folded down, plenty of space for stuff. Back when I was moving gliders around the country I took it coast to coast several times. It has 221,000 miles on it now. Had some work done on the valve body in the transmission last year. A few wheel bearings have needed replaced.

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On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 4:25:28 PM UTC-7, Stephen Coan wrote:
> What do you think is the best tow vehicle for a single place glass sailplane? What is the smallest vehicle one can safely tow with?

A 2025 vehicle sounds perfect Stevie.

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> I'm planning on towing a Ventus in a cobra from Utah to Fl. with a 2025 VW GTI. Any issues?

I don't know exactly which GTI you have, but most of them are rated by the manufacturer as "Not Recommended for Towing". I wouldn't want to risk over-heating the transmission or getting into an accident.

If this is a one-time trip, then you can try uship.com. I recently had a sailplane delivered from California to Chicago for less than $800. I couldn't have done it much cheaper myself. Note that uship prices are hit or miss. Sometimes I get great prices, and other times I don't.

[Stephen Szikora]

For towing, weight and wheelbase of the tow vehicle are your friends. I had a Toyota Siena and also a RAV4. Both had the same V6 motor and rated tow capacity of 3,500 lbs. Towing with the Sienna was better because it was heavier and longer.

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Any v6, add a transmission oil cooler for serious terrain.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

In general, I agree.......
Long/low/heavy/long wheelbase are good traits.
Thus I bought a 1998 Legacy GT wagon new....
Biggest thing I towed with that car....ASK-21 (Cobra trailer?) a couple hundred miles at speed.....fine until I was cut off among semis on a major highway....

Look back in the '60's....9 passenger wagons (4000lbs or so) at high speed......heavy, long wheelbase, lots a torque....

[Chris Behm]

I'm looking at a gmc canyon with the 2.8l diesel. Or the chevy colorado counterpart with same engine.
Thoughts?

[Steve Koerner]

There's three considerations that are important. 1) ability to stop well. 2) stability at highway speed 3) frame strength. All of these factors drive you away from a small car. Get a midsize car for towing a glider. My current tow vehicle is a Toyota Highlander which is perfect. Having gone through a few smallish tow vehicles over the years, I've learned the hard way.

In particular, you should understand that tow ratings are not valid for glider trailers. Pound for pound, glider trailers are much tougher on vehicle frames than a utility trailer or boat trailer. The length of the glider trailer causes a great deal of inertial loading -- both vertical and horizontal. Think in terms of 100% derating or more. After a few thousand miles towing with a Mazda CX5 that was nominally rated for trailer weight, I ended up with a broken frame to be repaired.

[ProfJ]

On Sunday, 10 May 2020 17:25:28 UTC-6, Stephen Coan wrote:
> What do you think is the best tow vehicle for a single place glass sailplane? What is the smallest vehicle one can safely tow with?

FWIW I towed a Grob 103 "concrete swan" about 2000 miles behind a light long-bed pickup truck (2L 4-cyl Mitsubishi). Scared the crap out of myself with one fishtailing incident but otherwise ok. Like they say, don't look in the mirror, it doesn't help and will only scare you. One good piece of advice was that you should try and use a vehicle with a short rear overhang - long wheelbase, short overhang is better. Obviously a long bed truck has a long overhang...

[Tom BravoMike]

>
> In particular, you should understand that tow ratings are not valid for glider trailers. Pound for pound, glider trailers are much tougher on vehicle frames than a utility trailer or boat trailer. The length of the glider trailer causes a great deal of inertial loading -- both vertical and horizontal. Think in terms of 100% derating or more. After a few thousand miles towing with a Mazda CX5 that was nominally rated for trailer weight, I ended up with a broken frame to be repaired.

Steve,
I do believe your negative experience with the Mazda CX5, no one can question the facts, BUT my experience is totally opposite and I would reccomend this model to anyone (Mazda CX5 Sport model 2014 purchased in 2013), 2 liter, manual gear): seven years of towing a Cobra 1984 trailer, thousands miles across the US (Phoenix, AZ - Seminole, FL - Baltimore, MD - Julian, PA - Ionia, MI - Chicago (several times) - Elmira, NY - Ionia, MI - Chicago to Seminole 3x back and forth...) Never ever had any issue, no swaying, impressive low fuel consumption, roomy, never got me too tired. Wishing to buy the same model when the time comes.
Must depend on the combination of more factors: Divine Providence, glider type, trailer make, right tires, load distribution, hitch mounting, driving style etc.