PLB Spot InReach Webinar 5-12-2020

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

I just wanted to comment on the SSA webinar last night with Cindy B David L Bruno V and put together by John De Rosa

Thanks for all who put these webinars together!

It seemed to me that John DeRosa was really pushing the PLB device.
I could be wrong but that's what I read into it.

Maybe because it doesn't need a monthly fee subscription, once you buy it and register it, the service is free.

While a PLB is not a bad piece of kit to have, when you push the HELP button the Calvary is coming and I don't think there going to be to happy to find you sitting all AOK in a field only needing a retrieve, in a area with no cell service. I think pushing the one button the PLB has triggers a full response.
And the PLB does not have tracking, you leave it off, until needed.
So if you land out and crash and get incapacitated and can't turn on you PLB your on your own.
The Spot and Garmin track so if you go missing your friends have a place to start looking, if you are incapacitated.
With a early generation Spot you can send pre written messages, saying anything you want, But no answer back... The newer Spot and the Garmin InReach systems have text messaging back and forth with is VERY useful and they also have a SOS button which will trigger a full search and rescue response.
I personally use the Garmin InReach SE and have been very happy with it.
The tracking works good as does the texting capability. Super long battery life, nice size, durable. You can easily pair it to a smart phone to text anyone with.
Thoughts?

What do you fly with and why?
Nick
T

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 7:39:18 AM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> I just wanted to comment on the SSA webinar last night with Cindy B David L Bruno V and put together by John De Rosa
>
> Thanks for all who put these webinars together!
>
> It seemed to me that John DeRosa was really pushing the PLB device.
> I could be wrong but that's what I read into it.
>
> Maybe because it doesn't need a monthly fee subscription, once you buy it and register it, the service is free.
>
> While a PLB is not a bad piece of kit to have, when you push the HELP button the Calvary is coming and I don't think there going to be to happy to find you sitting all AOK in a field only needing a retrieve, in a area with no cell service. I think pushing the one button the PLB has triggers a full response.
> And the PLB does not have tracking, you leave it off, until needed.
> So if you land out and crash and get incapacitated and can't turn on you PLB your on your own.
> The Spot and Garmin track so if you go missing your friends have a place to start looking, if you are incapacitated.
> With a early generation Spot you can send pre written messages, saying anything you want, But no answer back... The newer Spot and the Garmin InReach systems have text messaging back and forth with is VERY useful and they also have a SOS button which will trigger a full search and rescue response.
> I personally use the Garmin InReach SE and have been very happy with it.
> The tracking works good as does the texting capability. Super long battery life, nice size, durable. You can easily pair it to a smart phone to text anyone with.
> Thoughts?
>
> What do you fly with and why?
> Nick
> T

I have the spot X due to the ease of sending txt and cheaper subscription (hey, I am a glider pilot). Having had a Blackberry (an early form of smart phone) for years I can type blind or without reading glasses and with adrenaline coursing through my veins, in the unlikely event of a crash. At 64 and if in an emergency I thought it might be easier to operate than something smaller w/o keyboard.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Nick - Thanks for the comments.

I try with my pros/cons analysis of the PLBs versus Personal GPS Trackers to be as impartial as possible.

But, full disclosure, I have owned a PLB for many years across three different models (getting smaller all the time). I like them because;

- I don't have to worry about yet another battery being charged (though I am doing that anyway with my ship's main batteries)
- There is 121.5 beacon
- There is a visual and an IR strobe
- It is a (better?) US governmental agency receiving my emergency alerts versus a non-governmental one (though in the end probably the same group of first responders will be alerted and arrive on site)
- There are no recurring fees*

But I clearly understand the main flaw with PLBs is the missing acknowledgment that the message was received and being acted upon. In David Lessnick's case it took ~4 hours for rescuers to show up. During that wait I can imagine the following conversation going on in my mind, "Did they receive my message? Am I going to be rescued? Should I stay in place or leave to find help?"

So the Personal GPS Trackers are definitely better in this regard. David mentioned this. I also cover this in my pro/con slide (being updated as we speak). Not only will GEOS tell me that help is on the way but I can alert my family and friends. Not to mention real time tracking. Am I convincing myself?
The best of both worlds is to carry a PLB and a Tracker which is what David had.

One comment I hear is, "You spent how much on your glider and can't afford $xxx each month to possibly save yourself? You can't put a price on your health!".

Thanks again, stay safe, John
http://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations

* For both the SPOT X and the Garmin InReach you can sign up for a monthly plan. See the presentation for details and links.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 4:44:46 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

>
> I have the spot X due to the ease of sending txt and cheaper subscription (hey, I am a glider pilot). Having had a Blackberry (an early form of smart phone) for years I can type blind or without reading glasses and with adrenaline coursing through my veins, in the unlikely event of a crash. At 64 and if in an emergency I thought it might be easier to operate than something smaller w/o keyboard.

Jonathan - I believe that the monthly fee is the same for the Spot X and the Garmin InReach.

[kinsell]

For me, a big factor is the no user involvement required to activate the
tracker in case of an accident. Even if the tracker should be destroyed
in a bad accident, you should have a location within the last 10 minutes
or whatever tracking interval you're using, in order to narrow the
search somewhat.

I also like checking the trace after a flight to make sure things are
working.

-Dave




On 5/14/20 3:10 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Nick - Thanks for the comments.
>
> I try with my pros/cons analysis of the PLBs versus Personal GPS Trackers to be as impartial as possible.
>
> But, full disclosure, I have owned a PLB for many years across three different models (getting smaller all the time). I like them because;
>
> - I don't have to worry about yet another battery being charged (though I am doing that anyway with my ship's main batteries)
> - There is 121.5 beacon
> - There is a visual and an IR strobe
> - It is a (better?) US governmental agency receiving my emergency alerts versus a non-governmental one (though in the end probably the same group of first responders will be alerted and arrive on site)
> - There are no recurring fees*
>
> But I clearly understand the main flaw with PLBs is the missing acknowledgment that the message was received and being acted upon. In David Lessnick's case it took ~4 hours for rescuers to show up. During that wait I can imagine the following conversation going on in my mind, "Did they receive my message? Am I going to be rescued? Should I stay in place or leave to find help?"
>
> So the Personal GPS Trackers are definitely better in this regard. David mentioned this. I also cover this in my pro/con slide (being updated as we speak). Not only will GEOS tell me that help is on the way but I can alert my family and friends. Not to mention real time tracking. Am I convincing myself?
> The best of both worlds is to carry a PLB and a Tracker which is what David had.
>
> One comment I hear is, "You spent how much on your glider and can't afford $xxx each month to possibly save yourself? You can't put a price on your health!".
>
> Thanks again, stay safe, John
> http://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations
>
> * For both the SPOT X and the Garmin InReach you can sign up for a monthly plan. See the presentation for details and links.
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 4:51:00 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
> Even if the tracker should be destroyed
> in a bad accident, you should have a location within the last 10 minutes

Would ADSB out do the same thing without a monthly charge?

[kinsell]

On 5/14/20 5:45 PM, wrote:
> On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 4:51:00 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
>> Even if the tracker should be destroyed
>> in a bad accident, you should have a location within the last 10 minutes
>
> Would ADSB out do the same thing without a monthly charge?
>

ADSB-out certainly is somewhat useful for search and rescue. You do
need to be line of sight to at least one tower however. Flying in
remote mountainous areas, I would never rely on it. Plus it doesn't
have the "send the calvary" button on PLB's and trackers, so someone
would need to notice you're missing and contact the FAA to get the data.

The CAP relies increasingly on cell tower data, might be useful to leave
a cell phone turned on if you have extra power available to keep it
charged. Plus there's cell phone tracking apps available, useful in
populated areas.

InReach is more expensive than Spot per month, but you can turn off
InReach service in the off season, making it not too expensive overall.
I don't even carry my old PLB device anymore, InReach just is more
useful overall.

-Dave

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:11:21 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
> On 5/14/20 5:45 PM, wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 4:51:00 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
> >> Even if the tracker should be destroyed
> >> in a bad accident, you should have a location within the last 10 minutes
> >
> > Would ADSB out do the same thing without a monthly charge?
> >
>
> ADSB-out certainly is somewhat useful for search and rescue. You do
> need to be line of sight to at least one tower however. Flying in
> remote mountainous areas, I would never rely on it. Plus it doesn't
> have the "send the calvary" button on PLB's and trackers, so someone
> would need to notice you're missing and contact the FAA to get the data.
>
> The CAP relies increasingly on cell tower data, might be useful to leave
> a cell phone turned on if you have extra power available to keep it
> charged. Plus there's cell phone tracking apps available, useful in
> populated areas.
>
> InReach is more expensive than Spot per month, but you can turn off
> InReach service in the off season, making it not too expensive overall.
> I don't even carry my old PLB device anymore, InReach just is more
> useful overall.
>
> -Dave

Cavalry? There's saved, and saved...

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

During my May 2020 presentation I mention Allen Silver in the section on "Bailout Kits" (not landout kits!). This presentation is available at https://www.ssa.org/Webinars.

I also mentioned that Allen gives a wonderful, informative and energetic bailout presentation and that if you have a chance to experience it you should jump (no pun intended) at the opportunity. Your opportunity has arrived.

EAA is bringing Allen to their Webinar series on October 20, 7PM CDT. See http://pages.eaa.org/WBN2020-10-20EmergencyBailoutProceduresforPilotsandSurvivalEq uipment_LP-Registration.html to register.

-------------------------

Emergency Bailout Procedures for Pilots and Survival Equipment
Tues, Oct 20, 2020 7 - 8:30 p.m. CDT

Presenter: Allen Silver

Allen Silver is an FAA master parachute rigger and former FAA-designated rigger examiner who will be talking about how to use a parachute in an emergency bailout and some survival equipment pilots can use. Do you have a plan if you have an emergency? Do you have the right parachute fit for you? Once you decided to bail out of your aircraft do you know what to do next? These are some of the questions that will be answered during this webinar. You may download handout material from Mr. Silver's website at www.silverparachutes.com to use during and after the presentation. Qualifies for FAA WINGS credit.