Continential E-225 Experts?

[Kelvin Gurney]

I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched
tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a
Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling
system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might
be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8"
hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the
1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some
path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system?

I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking
to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.

[Dan Nafe]

In article >,
"Kelvin Gurney" > wrote:

> I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched
> tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a
> Beech 215 84" prop on it.

Sounds like a great project! Are there any online pictures?

> My question concerns installing a pre-oiling
> system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might
> be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8"
> hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the
> 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some
> path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system?
>
> I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking
> to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.


I'd suggest subscribing to the Bonanza owner's e-mail list. They were a
great resouce when I owned my E-225 powered Bonanza.

Remember e-225's don't leak, they "mark their territory"

[Highflyer]

"Kelvin Gurney" > wrote in message
...
> I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched
> tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a
> Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling
> system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase
> might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the
> 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil
> through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil
> follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge
> system?
>
> I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am
> looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.
>

Kelvin,

The E-225 eventually grew into the Continental O-470, which is the same
basic engine with many detail improvements. The older O-470 in the 230 HP
class such as were found in the earlier Cessna 182's are low compression,
run well on mogas, and have proven to be extremely reliable. Except, of
course, for the cylinders. The lower end on these is usually good for over
three thousand hours but the cylinder assemblies seem to give serious
problems after about 1000. They were used in everything from Barons and
Cessna 310's down to Ryan Navions and early Bonanzas. It is a pretty much
bulletproof engine and there are many available for reasonable prices on the
used engine market.

Another excellent engine in that category is the derated O-540 Lycoming used
in the early Pawnees. They derated it to 235 HP so they could run it on 80
octane fuel. These earlier O-540's are also a bulletproof engine that chugs
on forever and are available relatively reasonably priced on the used engine
market.

Using the E series Continental engines these days is comparable to useing
the Lycoming O-290 or O-435 series engines. They are good and were
excellent in their day, but the newer engines that have replaced them are at
least as durable and a lot easier to find parts for, making them less
expensive to overhaul. I say that, and I have an O-290 Lycoming in my
hangar for one of my homebuilts and am helping a friend install a Lycoming
O-435 into his Bellanca. :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

[Frank Stutzman]

Kelvin Gurney > wrote:
> I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking
> to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.

Well, I guess if thats your critera, the E-225 should do pretty well for
you. One thing that you don't mention is "maintainability". Parts are
getting more and more difficult to come by. I overhualed my E-225 almost
a decade ago now and its still doing pretty well, but I don't look forward
to the next overhaul. Parts are being harder and harder to come by.
Knowlegeable shops are also becomming scarce (which may not be a problem
for you if you are converting it to experimental status).

The same story with your prop. Its a great prop for that engine
(especially if you've got 88" blades on it). It also is orphaned, though,
and parts are almost non-existant. Before you commit to this prop, I
suggest you do a search for pitch change bearings. If you can find them,
hang onto your wallet! Unfortunately, because of the splined crankshaft
on the E-225 you've got a choice of this prop or a Hartzel (12v-20-7e plus
a few other models). The hartzel has several ADs on it and several other
operational issues.


--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" (E-225 powered, Hartzel driven)
Hood River, OR

[Kelvin Gurney]

Dan,
I don't have much yet. The Smith Aviation web site has a little information and no pictures about the Tundra Boss, (Bushmaster on their website). The reason for the name change is they didn't realize Bushmaster was already being used. The Tundra Boss is a new kit for them so they are still figuring out pricing, etc. Looks like gross will be in the 2800lb range, 7ft cargo area with rear seats removed, able to take larger engines, (360's 540's, etc). Their claim to fame is their Supercub kit and they have a lot of pictures of that kit. With those you can see the quality of their workmanship.

I have started an photo album at SuperCub.org

Thanks for the reply,
Kelvin

"Dan Nafe" > wrote in message ...
> In article >,
> "Kelvin Gurney" > wrote:
>
>> I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched
>> tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a
>> Beech 215 84" prop on it.
>
> Sounds like a great project! Are there any online pictures?
>
>> My question concerns installing a pre-oiling
>> system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase might
>> be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the 1/8"
>> hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil through the
>> 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow some
>> path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system?
>>
>> I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am looking
>> to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.
>
>
> I'd suggest subscribing to the Bonanza owner's e-mail list. They were a
> great resouce when I owned my E-225 powered Bonanza.
>
> Remember e-225's don't leak, they "mark their territory"

[Kelvin Gurney]

Frank, Highflyer,
I am aware of the parts issue. But so far I've been able to find what
I've needed at an reasonable price, (except for motor mounts, still looking
for those). I've gotten a rebuilt Beech 215 prop with zero hours for
$5,500.00 which I think is a good deal. I've picked up an E225-8 with 500
hours since factory re-manufacture that has been sitting around for a while
and it cost less than what a 360, or 540 core would have, (I've had it look
at by a 3rd party shop and it needs top end work). That doesn't bother me
because as you say, the weak part of this engine is the cylinders. ECi makes
a version of O-470 cylinders that fit and they have addressed the weakness.
So I think I am good there.

I have been told the Continental engineers were concerned about 225hp in
the light weight case and crank so when they added 80 lbs of metal to the
crank and case and called it an O-470.

But if I should mess up this engine or wang the prop playing in the
bush, getting replacement parts on a short notice would be VERY expensive.
So I keeping my eyes open for a second Beech prop and am looking to set up a
pre-oiler on this engine to address those issues.

Thanks for the reply,
Kelvin



"Highflyer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kelvin Gurney" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental stretched
>> tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will have a
>> Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a pre-oiling
>> system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left crankcase
>> might be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with
>> the 1/8" hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil
>> through the 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the
>> oil follow some path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge
>> system?
>>
>> I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am
>> looking to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.
>>
>
> Kelvin,
>
> The E-225 eventually grew into the Continental O-470, which is the same
> basic engine with many detail improvements. The older O-470 in the 230 HP
> class such as were found in the earlier Cessna 182's are low compression,
> run well on mogas, and have proven to be extremely reliable. Except, of
> course, for the cylinders. The lower end on these is usually good for
> over three thousand hours but the cylinder assemblies seem to give serious
> problems after about 1000. They were used in everything from Barons and
> Cessna 310's down to Ryan Navions and early Bonanzas. It is a pretty much
> bulletproof engine and there are many available for reasonable prices on
> the used engine market.
>
> Another excellent engine in that category is the derated O-540 Lycoming
> used in the early Pawnees. They derated it to 235 HP so they could run it
> on 80 octane fuel. These earlier O-540's are also a bulletproof engine
> that chugs on forever and are available relatively reasonably priced on
> the used engine market.
>
> Using the E series Continental engines these days is comparable to using
> the Lycoming O-290 or O-435 series engines. They are good and were
> excellent in their day, but the newer engines that have replaced them are
> at least as durable and a lot easier to find parts for, making them less
> expensive to overhaul. I say that, and I have an O-290 Lycoming in my
> hangar for one of my homebuilts and am helping a friend install a Lycoming
> O-435 into his Bellanca. :-)
>
> Highflyer
> Highflight Aviation Services
> Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

Dan Nafe wrote:

>
> I'd suggest subscribing to the Bonanza owner's e-mail list. They were a
> great resouce when I owned my E-225 powered Bonanza.
>
> Remember e-225's don't leak, they "mark their territory"

Plenty of E-225's in Navions along with it's more modern cousin
the IO-470.

[Gary]

Kelvin,
The E-225 Continental is a hot running engine. The cylinders do not
have
the fin density that the newer Continentals or Lycomings do. Without
very
good baffling the CHTs will run high and cylinder life will fall far
short of
TBO. Probably not an issue for you in Alaska :^)

Also the E series continentals have many more mating surfaces,
gaskets and
external oil plumbing than the more modern engines. If the engine case
halves
were machined during overhaul and the accessory case fitup was not
addressed
either by relocating the dowel pin holes or by use of offset dowl pins
IT WILL
LEAK. In fact no matter how hard you try to make an E series oil tight
the
thermal expansion differences between the aluminum case, magnesium
accessory
case and steel oil pumbing parts will ultimately leak in a few hundred
hours.
Cold Alaskan starts followed by normal operating temps could be quite a
swing
and cause these parts to leak sooner.

The E-225 has a splined crankshaft which limits you to only a few
props.
The vintage Hartzells are subject to costly and timely AD inspections
and the
AD free versions are much more expensive than a similarly sized flange
mount
prop.

Also the E-225 achieves its HP increase over the earlier E-185
through a
more agressive cam and increased carburation using a specific variant
of the
Bendix PS5-C pressure carburetor. This is nothing more than a
mechanical
throttle-body fuel injection device. Very reliable and smooth running
with
the spider type intake manifold used on the E series engine. The only
downside is service. The number of shops knowledgable and equipped to
service this carb are dwindling. Of course as an experimental you can
use a conventional float bowl carb from an O-470 or convert to fuel
injection
using an RS5 or the newer RSA5 servo, fuel spider and injectors.

The crowded accessory case area is another thing to be concerned
about.
There are only 2 accessory pads available. The choice of starter is
limited
to either the gear driven Bendix Eclipse E-80 or the Bendix direct
drive.
The generator is crowded too limiting you to either the 35A and 50A
variety
or the expensive Jasco/Skytronic 50A alternator conversion.

Finally there is the parts availability issue. As mentioned before
there
are many of these engines in Navions and early Beech Bonanzas. As
these
engines get swapped out for newer conversions their cores become
available
for reasonable cost. However certain consumables like U 0.010 thrust
bearings and oil pump parts are no longer being made and command very
high
prices.


Kelvin Gurney wrote:
> I am building an Smith Aviation Tundra Boss, (a experimental
stretched
> tri-pacer derivative) for use in Alaska's back country. It will
have a
> Beech 215 84" prop on it. My question concerns installing a
pre-oiling
> system. I was thinking the oil pressure fitting on the left
crankcase might
> be a good place to install the accumulator. My concern was with the
1/8"
> hole, assuming the oil is a decent temperature, can I flow oil
through the
> 1/8" hole fast enough to pre-oil the engine? Or would the oil follow
some
> path of least resistance and just flow into the scavenge system?
>
> I would love to hear any other suggestion about the E-225. I am
looking
> to keep this engine low compression, light, and reliable.