Re: KGARS - Kiting Glider Automatic Relase System

[[email protected]]

I am thinking A CG tow hook for the towplane, likr RC models do.
This way Glider can stall the tow plane while kiting, but not point its nose down.
I envision a tunnel for the tow rope along the fuselage top so it doesn't jam the rudder/elevator. The front end of tunnel/rope is connected to the fuselage at the CG.
Once the glider starts rising above the Towplane, the tunnel hinges upwards while the rope is still connected to the towplane's CG.
No moment is generated to raise the towplanes tail.

Dan

[2G]

On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 3:35:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> I am thinking A CG tow hook for the towplane, likr RC models do.
> This way Glider can stall the tow plane while kiting, but not point its nose down.
> I envision a tunnel for the tow rope along the fuselage top so it doesn't jam the rudder/elevator. The front end of tunnel/rope is connected to the fuselage at the CG.
> Once the glider starts rising above the Towplane, the tunnel hinges upwards while the rope is still connected to the towplane's CG.
> No moment is generated to raise the towplanes tail.
>
> Dan

It sounds like a major airframe modification. How would it accommodate both high and low tow positions? A KGARS would be much easier.

Tom

[[email protected]]

Well unfortunately I was on the receiving end of a kiting occurrence just 2 days ago. The classic “series of events” precluded this event. New line guy, unfamiliar glider,
with unusual hook which no one was familiar with, new guy to the field, gusty wild winds and thermal activity, the list goes on. Anyway I actually shut the tow plane off and crawled under the glider to help the new Line guy hook it up, after about 1/2 dozen tries. The glider pilot had opened his canopy to instruct us on how to hook the rope up on this glider, we finally figure it out and I LITERALLY thought I Hope that guy latches his canopy.... in hindsight I WISH I said something when I was thinking this (seeing how this is a subject on most glider folks mind these days, and certainly on most tow pilot’s minds). Anyway off we go, it is an extremely light weight glider, like there is nothing behind you.... so we are climbing very well, and on the cross wind turn we are probably 700 feet AGL, and I see ( in my mirrors) the glider’s belly and the glider turning the opposite direction. I think,” huh, this is gonna be interesting” then I think “ doesn’t he know he HAS to release if he has lost sight of me?” (He OBVIOUSLY cannot see the tow plane). Well then the next excitement comes and shortly thereafter I am pointing about 50-55 degrees nose down, with a nice view of the industrial buildings adjacent the airport. My hand was going for the guillotine when ”Ping” the weak link did it’s job. The glider pilot declares an emergency and states his canopy is unlatched. He lands, I land, everybody is fine.. I just “need a minute” and a nice cuss word yell. He needs a new weak link, states he was flying the glider with one hand on the canopy and using the other to go back and forth between the spoilers and the stick. I was thinking “ WHILE you were on TOW? WTF”. In hindsight I assume he meant AFTER the uncommanded release.
The (so far) big take aways, when the normal process become abnormal, suggest strongly that everyone just reset and redo the checklist, preflight routines. Interruptions come in many forms. If your intuition is telling you something, listen. And of course the cardinal rule of glider flying, if you lose sight of the tow plane... RELEASE. Not negotiable.
Footnote, I am reasonably experienced in flying and towing, and this is the first time I have ever gone for the release. Like 30 plus years, thousands of tows given, hundreds taken.

[Waveguru]

Why didn't YOU pull the release?????

Boggs

[[email protected]]

To the two posters who described your event from the towplane end of things.

First, thank you for posting.

Second, if you can remember, did you instinctively apply substantial up elevator during the upset?

Mark

[[email protected]]

I was in the process, my hand going for the release mechanism when the weakling did it’s job.

[[email protected]]

In my case, no.
I am not going to name the glider manufacture because I there are very few of these (only the second one I have ever seen), and it is not my place to
“Out” the individual. It is his place, if he desires. That said this was an extremely light glider, less than 400# including pilot. I am in a 260 Pawnee. Very gentle nose down, slow event, obviously it would have been an entirely different story with a water laden heavy two or even single place.
I am thankful for that.

[2G]

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 9:17:05 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> In my case, no.
> I am not going to name the glider manufacture because I there are very few of these (only the second one I have ever seen), and it is not my place to
> “Out” the individual. It is his place, if he desires. That said this was an extremely light glider, less than 400# including pilot. I am in a 260 Pawnee. Very gentle nose down, slow event, obviously it would have been an entirely different story with a water laden heavy two or even single place.
> I am thankful for that.

Thanks for posting this report - it proves that even a very light glider can upset a substantial towplane. Do you recall how much altitude you lost during the upset?

Tom

[[email protected]]

Initially I thought the next step would be some sort of datalogger, but it has occured to me that 3-4 GoPro cameras could collect some interesting data. One camera looking aft from the towplane release area like in the following video...

https://youtu.be/-EbSg4YLrfQ

Then 2-3 cameras in the cockpit. One in a position to see the elevator inputs during the flight, one positioned such that the horizon is visible with perhaps some marks visible that could reference pitch angle.

Then perform a couple of kiting events at altitude and done in as safe a manner as possible to collect data. Unfortunately I’m not a towpilot nor do I own a towplane.

[2G]

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 5:25:47 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Initially I thought the next step would be some sort of datalogger, but it has occured to me that 3-4 GoPro cameras could collect some interesting data. One camera looking aft from the towplane release area like in the following video...
>
> https://youtu.be/-EbSg4YLrfQ
>
> Then 2-3 cameras in the cockpit. One in a position to see the elevator inputs during the flight, one positioned such that the horizon is visible with perhaps some marks visible that could reference pitch angle.
>
> Then perform a couple of kiting events at altitude and done in as safe a manner as possible to collect data. Unfortunately I’m not a towpilot nor do I own a towplane.

It certainly would be helpful to video a simulated towplane upset, but I think enough information is available from an inertial measurement unit (IMU), airspeed and altitude sensors, and GPS position information.

Tom

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 8:31:05 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> To the two posters who described your event from the towplane end of things.
>
> First, thank you for posting.
>
> Second, if you can remember, did you instinctively apply substantial up elevator during the upset?
>
> Mark

I missed this original post but perhaps I should weigh in. I believe my experience has been well documented in other posts but for the record I've encountered a kiting situation at about 350 feet AGL. (along with one at 2K feet and others a bit less sudden) It was sudden and quite violent causing me to pitch down 60 degrees or more and roll to the left 90 degrees. My first instinct was to release but no luck, the handle would not produce enough mechanical advantage. My next move was to close the throttle, not good to be nose down at full throttle. I am quite sure initially I had the stick full back to counter the downward pitch. I then tried again to release, no luck, and then the rope broke. I recovered with trees visible in my peripheral vision to the left. I therefore estimate that I lost 300 feet or more before recovery. The 15 year old student on her 3rd solo did not release, go figure.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot