Flying Club Features

[Andy]

What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
would make you want to join a club?

I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all others
pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The current
club members will also loan out all training materials to further
reduce the cost.

Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
members.

We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
clubs?

What other suggestions can you come up with?

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Andy" > said:
>What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
>flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
>would make you want to join a club?

I'm the secretary of a flying club. http://www.rochesterflyingclub.com/
Our planes are better maintained than the local FBOs, and slightly (but
not much) cheaper. We don't do much of the social stuff, except an annual
dinner. Our main advantage over renting is that the monthly dues work out
about the same as renters insurance, and our members are insured better
than they would with renters insurance.

>We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
>to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
>clubs?

Our club has a Warrior, two Archers, a Dakota and a Lance. It's a good
mix, and the similarity of the planes makes moving up easier. Students
can only use the Warrior, except when the Warrior is grounded they can
receive dual in one of the Archers. But having high end aircraft like the
Dakota and Lance mean that the sort of people who fly a lot have the sort
of planes that they can use for trips. Since you've already got a 172,
I'd recommend getting a 152 and a 182 and/or a 206.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Information moves, or we move to it. Moving to it has rarely been
popular and is growing unfashionable; nowadays we demand that the
information come to us. -- Neal Stephenson

[BTIZ]

if your club can not induce members with those cheap flying rates.. then I'm
not sure what would get them.. What is your "join up fee", because the
hourly rate is not the problem, try to rent a nearly new 172 anywhere else
for that rate.

What is the availability of the aircraft? hard to schedule with too many
members and not enough airplanes?

BT

"Andy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
> flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
> would make you want to join a club?
>
> I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
> school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all others
> pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
> usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The current
> club members will also loan out all training materials to further
> reduce the cost.
>
> Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
> We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
> members.
>
> We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
> to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
> clubs?
>
> What other suggestions can you come up with?
>

[A]

>>What is your "join up fee", because the
>>hourly rate is not the problem, try to rent a nearly new 172 anywhere
else
>>for that rate.
>>
>>What is the availability of the aircraft? hard to schedule with too
many
>>members and not enough airplanes?

Membership initiation is $50 and monthly dues are $20.

Availability is usually good. I haven't had a conflict in my year in
it. I am not even sure how many members we have, maybe 20 on the high
side, with most being alumni and not flying much. I believe we only
put about 50 hours on it since Oct. It should also be available nearly
full time in the summer when schools out.

We were also considering getting a complex since there is virtually
nothing available in the area and this would grant us a larger renter
base.

[Jose]

I look for stuff I can't get at an FBO, and can't afford (time or money
wise) from buying my own plane. Those things are (in no particular order):

1: well maintained aircraft
2: no minimum rental fees - I can take the plane for a week and don't
have to put umpty-ump hours on it.
3: time billed by the tach, not the hobbs (no "taxi penalty")
4: high performance aircraft - not the warrior/172 set I can get anywhere.
5: member participation in the affairs of the club and the aircraft.
6: social inclusiveness, which can easily lead to wives and such
getting involved (as pinch hitters, and also with each other socially,
leading to more SOs flying)
7: hangar flying at meetings, safety seminars at meetings, stuff like that.

That's a start.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Jose]

Oh - a few other things.

8: aircraft easily available. This means a good ratio of planes to pilots.
9: equity participation - sort of like buying into a share. I think a
fee structure of three separate "channels" - cost of ownership (loans,
opportunity cost), other fixed costs, and hourly costs, make it easier
to justify the rates.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Morgans]

"Andy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
> flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
> would make you want to join a club?
>
> I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
> school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70,

I think having a cheaper rate for students would turn me off, if I were not
a student. Seems unfair, for the ones with a ticket, to be helping to pay
for the students.
--
Jim in NC

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Jose > said:
>9: equity participation - sort of like buying into a share. I think a
>fee structure of three separate "channels" - cost of ownership (loans,
>opportunity cost), other fixed costs, and hourly costs, make it easier
>to justify the rates.

Our club doesn't do equity participation, and that's the reason why I'm in
this club. There is another club on the field, and when I was ready to
join Rochester Flying Club was $500 to join with no equity, and Aerodrome
Flying Club was $5,000 to join with equity. I didn't have $5,000, so I
joined RFC. Now the Aerodrome join is $18,000, so it might have been a
decent investment if I'd had the money, but I didn't.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
It's the _target_ that supposed to go "F00F", not the processor.
-- Mike Andrews, on Pentiums in missiles

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Morgans" > said:
>I think having a cheaper rate for students would turn me off, if I were not
>a student. Seems unfair, for the ones with a ticket, to be helping to pay
>for the students.

Our club used to have a cheaper rate for students, but they were
restricted to one aircraft (the Warrior) so it balanced out. Now we still
accept students and still restrict them to one aircraft, but we'd really
rather that they got their flight training somewhere else.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a
mistake when you make it again. -- F. P. Jones

[Jose]

> Our club doesn't do equity participation, and that's the reason why I'm in
> this club.

It could be optional, in exchange for lower dues. In essence, the extra
dues would cover what it would cost monthly to borrow the equity share.
No matter how it's sliced, the money has to be paid somehow; what I
like about splitting it that way is that the equity share gets returned
on exit. The member actually "owns" a piece of it, should they want to.
It also makes the economics of deciding on another plane simpler.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[A]

>I think having a cheaper rate for students would turn me off, if I
were not
>a student. Seems unfair, for the ones with a ticket, to be helping to
pay
>for the students.
>--
>Jim in NC

The rate doesn't go up until you graduate, then its only a $10
increase. This club was founded with the intention of providing cheap
flying to students (not just student pilots). I wouldn't mind helping
to pay for someone elses training since I am getting it cheaper now,
plus by the time that comes up I will probably own or have moved.

So, I guess what I am saying is if you are a pilot, and taking classes
at the school, it is still cheaper. It doesn't change based on
experience, rating, or age. The only way to jump up to $70 is to
graduate, and the only way to get to $80 is to have no affiliation with
the school.

[Chris Colohan]

"Andy" > writes:
> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
> flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
> would make you want to join a club?

Simple. I would look at the club, and look at other alternatives in
the area, and pick the best one.

What does your competition look like? Your rates are not relevant
without context -- are you in an area which has lots of people who can
afford to fly? If so, are you cheaper or more expensive than the
competition? Do you have better planes? More talented instructors?
How many hours per month do I have to fly to make it worthwhile to
join your club (versus using the local FBO)?

I am currently looking at starting my flight training, and am in
Pittsburgh. I am considering moving to the Bay Area of California for
work. The price difference between those two locations is _huge_.
(Strangely, there is a lot more competition in California, and also
much higher prices. What the market will bear, I assume...)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

[ram]

I am a member of East Hill Flying Club in Ithaca, NY. The things that
brought me to the club were
> A good fleet of planes (3 152s, 3 172s and a Mooney 201)
> Planes are all well maintained
> Lower rental rates than available elsewhere ($60/hr, $75/hr & $102/hr
wet, respectively)
> The 172s and Mooney all have Garmin 430s
> Monthly fees ($45) are lower than renter's insurance with better
coverage
> We are a part 141 school which meant starting my Instrument Rating
sooner

The club draws many of its members and students from Cornell University.
It, also, has a training program in affiliation with the local community
college and does Air Force ROTC primary training. The club has 5-6
instructors ($30/hr) on staff at any one time (part-time and full-time).

I would not be thrilled with your 3-tiered rental rate structure. If the
focus of your club is one training, I would purchase a 152. Many of our
students use the 152 for training to reduce costs. Instrument training and
most member rentals are done in the 172s. Another key is marketing. We
have two pancake breakfasts every year and do many discovery flights during
them. One any given weekend there are several discovery flights taking
place.

Bob

"Andy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
> flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
> would make you want to join a club?
>
> I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
> school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all others
> pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
> usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The current
> club members will also loan out all training materials to further
> reduce the cost.
>
> Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
> We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
> members.
>
> We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
> to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
> clubs?
>
> What other suggestions can you come up with?
>

[Andrew Gideon]

Jose wrote:

>> Our club doesn't do equity participation, and that's the reason why I'm
>> in this club.
>
> It could be optional, in exchange for lower dues. In essence, the extra
> dues would cover what it would cost monthly to borrow the equity share.
> No matter how it's sliced, the money has to be paid somehow; what I
> like about splitting it that way is that the equity share gets returned
> on exit. The member actually "owns" a piece of it, should they want to.
> It also makes the economics of deciding on another plane simpler.

It seems to me that this equity mechanism - which my club uses too, BTW -
has a disadvantage. What happens when the club wants to "invest" somehow
(better avionics, new plane, whatever)? How does that get funded?

In my club, with a few specific exceptions, it would be an equity increase.
But how far can that go before the equity becomes a significant barrier to
entry (ie. it costs too much for new members to join)?

Invest a little here, invest a little there, and eventually increasing
equity becomes essentially impossible. So does the club cease investing at
that point? Sure, everything is well maintained, but no more aircraft
upgrades (ie. replacing a 1979 182 with a new glass 182)?

A club around here is replacing an older 172 or 182 (I forget which) with a
new glass version. But they're doing it w/o increasing the equity. Those
members that can are loaning the club some money, and the plane gets paid
off out of operating income (ie. some combination tach and montly rates).

So in that case the current members are paying - through their rates - for
an asset that the club will own and from which future members will benefit.
That appears contrary to the idea of equity, and also seems a little unfair
to current members in favor of new members.

However, it also seems to leave more room for investment w/o pricing a club
out of the market.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I've not really
reached any conclusion. Perhaps I'm missing some factor which would
eliminate the "no more investment" issue.

I'd appreciate the thoughts of others on this matter.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

Jose wrote:

> I look for stuff I can't get at an FBO, and can't afford (time or money
> wise) from buying my own plane. Those things are (in no particular
> order):
>
> 1: well maintained aircraft
> 2: no minimum rental fees - I can take the plane for a week and don't
> have to put umpty-ump hours on it.
> 3: time billed by the tach, not the hobbs (no "taxi penalty")
> 4: high performance aircraft - not the warrior/172 set I can get
> anywhere.
> 5: member participation in the affairs of the club and the aircraft.
> 6: social inclusiveness, which can easily lead to wives and such
> getting involved (as pinch hitters, and also with each other socially,
> leading to more SOs flying)
> 7: hangar flying at meetings, safety seminars at meetings, stuff like
> that.
>
> That's a start.
>
> Jose

My minimum:

o Aircraft equiped to travel. That means:
o dual vacuum, all redundant electric, or something of that sort
o IFR certified GPS
o Some WX avoidance mechanism
o Speed

o Rules which permit travel
o No daily minimum
o At least somewhat lengthy maximum booking length (ie. a week
or two)

o Pricing which permits frequent flying

o Similarity of aircraft for ease of maintaining currency
in the entire fleet

o Differences in aircraft for fun

o Availability (ie. the member/aircraft ratio, the booking rules, etc.)
which permits frequent flying. For example, my club tweaked the rules
about a year ago, after a study, to make little "poke holes in the sky"
flights easier to book.

o Enough emphasis on safety that I don't fret for other members breaking
my airplanes.

o Well maintained aircraft.

Extra:

o Opportunities for "ownership experiences", such as assisting in
MX issues (ie. owner-assisted annuals etc.). A lot of us consider
club membership training for ownership.

o Safety-related programs (which might be more important if such
weren't easily available around here through other organizations)

o Social programs which include family (which might be more important
if such weren't easily available around here through other
organizations)

[[email protected]]

Two salient features of the club I'm in that I appreciate:

- no hourly minimum per day. (makes real trips in the aircraft
feasible, and they would not otherwise be!)
- insurance that puts all members as named insured; this is a better
deal than renters insurance.

The rental rates are also some of the lowest on the field, though there
is another field nearby with FBOs with significantly lower (15% or
more) wet rates. However, I'd need insurance there and their 3/hr day
minimums make travel impossible.

The club has a a 152, a several 172s, a 182, 172RG, Warrior, a couple
of Archers, an Arrow, a Bonanza, and a Duchess. I guess that makes it a
medium/large club?

-- dave j

Andy wrote:
> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in
a
> flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
> would make you want to join a club?
>
> I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
> school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all
others
> pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
> usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The
current
> club members will also loan out all training materials to further
> reduce the cost.
>
> Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
> We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
> members.
>
> We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane
(152/Warrior?)
> to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
> clubs?
>
> What other suggestions can you come up with?

[SAC]

Andy,

I serve as the Operations Officer in a club in Louisville, Ky named Glendale
Flying Club (www.glendaleflying.com).

We focus on having well equipped planes at a very reasonable rate. Members
really seem to be driven to nice avionics and quality mx. We currently have
70 members with about 20 on the waiting list with 4 planes (2 Warrior, 1
Skylane, 1 Lance, all with Garmin 430's). Also, by allowing members to keep
the planes for extended trips, we have another edge over FBO rentals that
charge daily minimums. Check out our web site if you are interested in more
details, I hope it can help you out.

Recently, our success has allowed us to complete the construction of our own
8000 sqft corporate hanger on Bowman Field (KLOU). This alone has brought
us many members with having the benefit of a warm/cool waiting area and
high-speed flight planning. Not to mention not having to use the
Port-O-Let. There is a photo page on the site as well.

It also helps to have some great volunteers who love aviation to keep
everything running smoothly.

SAC


Check our site
"Andy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in a
> flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
> would make you want to join a club?
>
> I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
> school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70, and all others
> pay $80. This is for a 1998 in good condition. The instructors
> usually give club members a reduced price (around $20/hr). The current
> club members will also loan out all training materials to further
> reduce the cost.
>
> Our only current activites are tower tours and fly-with-me weekends.
> We are in the planning stages for $100 hamburger runs with potential
> members.
>
> We are starting to look into purchasing a smaller plane (152/Warrior?)
> to further reduce the costs. Has this approach worked well for other
> clubs?
>
> What other suggestions can you come up with?
>

[Andrew Sarangan]

What would make more sense is to have a lower monthly dues for student
pilots, but keep the flying rate the same.


"Morgans" > wrote in
:

>
> "Andy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> What do you look for in a flying club? I am currently an officer in
>> a flying club and we are having trouble recruiting new members. What
>> would make you want to join a club?
>>
>> I feel that our prices are the main deterrent. Students (this is a
>> school club) pay $60/hr for a C172 (dry), alumi pay $70,
>
> I think having a cheaper rate for students would turn me off, if I
> were not a student. Seems unfair, for the ones with a ticket, to be
> helping to pay for the students.

[Morgans]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote

> A club around here is replacing an older 172 or 182 (I forget which) with
a
> new glass version. But they're doing it w/o increasing the equity. >
However, it also seems to leave more room for investment w/o pricing a club
> out of the market.
>
> This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I've not
really
> reached any conclusion. Perhaps I'm missing some factor which would
> eliminate the "no more investment" issue.
>
> I'd appreciate the thoughts of others on this matter.
>
> - Andrew

Perhaps I am missing something, because the answer seems so "out in the
open."

New members?
--
Jim in NC

[Andrew Gideon]

Morgans wrote:

> Perhaps I am missing something, because the answer seems so "out in the
> open."
>
> New members?

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I guess my confusion on this matter leaked.

Adding members is great if airplanes are being added. But if an airplane is
being [merely] replaced, then adding members risks causing availability
problems.

- Andrew

[Montblack]

("SAC" wrote)
> We focus on having well equipped planes at a very reasonable rate.
> Members really seem to be driven to nice avionics and quality mx. We
> currently have 70 members with about 20 on the waiting list with 4 planes
> (2 Warrior, 1 Skylane, 1 Lance, all with Garmin 430's).


(www.glendaleflying.com)

I went to your website - nice hangar.

70 members on 4 planes = almost 18 members per plane. WOW!

If one plane is gone for a week and another is down for a few days (or more)
then you'd have 69 members on 2 planes. Hmm.

It probably all works out just fine in the real world, but from the outside
looking in - it appears like you don't have enough planes for all of those
members.


Montblack

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Montblack" > said:
>If one plane is gone for a week and another is down for a few days (or more)
>then you'd have 69 members on 2 planes. Hmm.
>
>It probably all works out just fine in the real world, but from the outside
>looking in - it appears like you don't have enough planes for all of those
>members.

We have serious squabbles about availability every time we get up near to
60 members with 5 planes. 50 members for 5 planes works out better. Our
bylaws cap our membership at 15 members per plane, but I'd hate to see
that.

Back before we got ScheduleMaster, though, it was easier to sustain a
higher ratio because the members could see that Joe Blogs had booked the
Lance for every single Thursday to Saturday for the entire spring, summer
and fall season, and Fred Biggs has booked the Dakota in one block from
July 1st to July 31st, even though the plane is sitting on the field
unused for 90% of that time. With ScheduleMaster, everybody sees it and
starts howling for Joe's and Fred's blood. So we've had to institute a
few rules about how many schedules you can have in the system, and how
long you can book a plane for at a time. If you book a plane for an
extended period and don't cancel the booking and don't use it, *then* we
apply minimum per-day charges.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Using vi is kind of like having sex. The first time to use it, it's kind
of awkward, but after using for a while you start to get good at it and
enjoy it. -- Eric Merkel

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Paul Tomblin) said:
>Back before we got ScheduleMaster, though, it was easier to sustain a
>higher ratio because the members could see that Joe Blogs had booked the
^couldn't

>Lance for every single Thursday to Saturday for the entire spring, summer
>and fall season, and Fred Biggs has booked the Dakota in one block from
>July 1st to July 31st, even though the plane is sitting on the field
>unused for 90% of that time. With ScheduleMaster, everybody sees it and
>starts howling for Joe's and Fred's blood. So we've had to institute a


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
But seriously, I've got root, so it's his problem.
-- Nick Manka

[SAC]

Yes, that happens. In fact, we just had a top overhaul on the Skylane while
waiting for the engine mount to be repaired on the Lance. Members seem to
understand. We do keep all of our annuals in the winter to help limit prime
season down time.

In looking at our scheduling system (MyFBO), there are actually 20% of our
member that haven't flown in six months, some much longer. That really
helps too.

SAC


"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Montblack" >
> said:
>>If one plane is gone for a week and another is down for a few days (or
>>more)
>>then you'd have 69 members on 2 planes. Hmm.
>>
>>It probably all works out just fine in the real world, but from the
>>outside
>>looking in - it appears like you don't have enough planes for all of those
>>members.
>
> We have serious squabbles about availability every time we get up near to
> 60 members with 5 planes. 50 members for 5 planes works out better. Our
> bylaws cap our membership at 15 members per plane, but I'd hate to see
> that.
>
> Back before we got ScheduleMaster, though, it was easier to sustain a
> higher ratio because the members could see that Joe Blogs had booked the
> Lance for every single Thursday to Saturday for the entire spring, summer
> and fall season, and Fred Biggs has booked the Dakota in one block from
> July 1st to July 31st, even though the plane is sitting on the field
> unused for 90% of that time. With ScheduleMaster, everybody sees it and
> starts howling for Joe's and Fred's blood. So we've had to institute a
> few rules about how many schedules you can have in the system, and how
> long you can book a plane for at a time. If you book a plane for an
> extended period and don't cancel the booking and don't use it, *then* we
> apply minimum per-day charges.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> Using vi is kind of like having sex. The first time to use it, it's kind
> of awkward, but after using for a while you start to get good at it and
> enjoy it. -- Eric Merkel

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "SAC" > said:
>In looking at our scheduling system (MyFBO), there are actually 20% of our
>member that haven't flown in six months, some much longer. That really
>helps too.

In our club of 50 people, 10 people do 50% of the flying, another 20 do
most of the rest, and then there are people who keep paying their dues but
either only do their annual check ride (we require a BFR-like ride every
year) or don't even do that. We love those guys.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
FAQs are like flatulence. Any asshole can produce them.
-- Toni L

[John T]

One thing I wonder about...how do you guys get the capital to buy a
plane for a new club?
I always thought that a club was good for the folks who can't afford to
own, but don't want to depend on renting schedules.

John

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, John T > said:
>One thing I wonder about...how do you guys get the capital to buy a
>plane for a new club?

My club was founded in 1958 with one Cessna 150. Over the years it's been
up to 7 planes (including two Bonanzas) and now it's got 5 planes. We've
bought two Archers and a Dakota since I joined, but each time we sold
other older planes and made up the difference by taking on debt, but of
course we always had the other planes for collaterol for that.

I have no idea how you buy a plane without an existing club and club
assets.

I've spent time poking around the Oshawa Flying Club in Oshawa Ontario and
the Ottawa Flying Club in Ottawa Ontario, both clubs that have snack bars
and buildings and other stuff that put our club to shame. But both of
them started with the acquisition of incredibly cheap trainers (Tiger
Moths and Fleet Finches, I think) from the British Commonwealth Air
Training Program at the end of the war.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Whoah, whoah! A fat sarcastic Star Trek fan? You must be a devil with the
ladies!" - Simpsons

[Dave Butler]

John T wrote:
> One thing I wonder about...how do you guys get the capital to buy a
> plane for a new club?
> I always thought that a club was good for the folks who can't afford to
> own, but don't want to depend on renting schedules.

The clubs I know about that own planes have all been around for a very long
time. I don't know how you'd get one started. Borrow, I suppose.

The club I know best leases its planes from individual owners who are also club
members. Seems to work out OK. I was an owner of one of the club planes for a while.

DGB

[SAC]

We've been around since '61 and I'm not sure how it started.

I guess you could start with a few people willing to put up a personal
guarantee for a loan until you have enough collateral to get your own club
financing. Then open up to new incoming member to bring in fees and dues
and build from there.

SAC

"John T" > wrote in message
...
> One thing I wonder about...how do you guys get the capital to buy a plane
> for a new club?
> I always thought that a club was good for the folks who can't afford to
> own, but don't want to depend on renting schedules.
>
> John
>