Low flying commercial jets

[Skywise]

Bear with me as I'm not a pilot (someday?) and my
experiences are based on flight sims. Also, I don't
know if this is the best group to ask, but I've been
lurking here for a couple months and you guys seem
like a nice bunch.

I live a couple miles due east of Los Alamitos Air
Station (KSLI) in North Orange County, CA. Being an
aviation nut I enjoy the semi-regular F-18's and
occasional cargo planes flying overhead.

However, tonight, and on a couple other occasions in
the past few months, at around 9-10 PMish there have
been some commercial jets flying extremely low. The
first time I saw it I thought it was on final to Los
Al. It was at about the right altitude. They were
flying west towards the station but just before getting
there, instead of turning left to land on 22 they
turned right a bit to avoid the station altogether and
seemed to head towards LAX. I have followed the planes
in my binocs as far as I could and they seemed to be
headed that way. BTW, I'm about 24 miles from LAX.

What I find odd is their extremely low altitude this
far from LAX. The plane tonight looked like an MD80
or similar and was so low that the wingspan was about
the same as a fist held at arms length. It was easy to
see the flaps down and other features even though it
was night.

There was only the one aircraft tonight but on previous
occasions there would be as many as 5-6 over a 30 minute
period all on the same route. Normally there is nothing
flying around here that low that isn't going into Los Al.
Most times the F-18's are turning from base to final over
my head.

So my question is for anyone familiar with the area what
the deal might be? I'm not concerned. Just extremely
curious.

Thanks for any comments.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy

Home of the Seismic FAQ
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[Earl Grieda]

"Skywise" > wrote in message
...
> Bear with me as I'm not a pilot (someday?) and my
> experiences are based on flight sims. Also, I don't
> know if this is the best group to ask, but I've been
> lurking here for a couple months and you guys seem
> like a nice bunch.
>
> I live a couple miles due east of Los Alamitos Air
> Station (KSLI) in North Orange County, CA. Being an
> aviation nut I enjoy the semi-regular F-18's and
> occasional cargo planes flying overhead.
>
> However, tonight, and on a couple other occasions in
> the past few months, at around 9-10 PMish there have
> been some commercial jets flying extremely low. The
> first time I saw it I thought it was on final to Los
> Al. It was at about the right altitude. They were
> flying west towards the station but just before getting
> there, instead of turning left to land on 22 they
> turned right a bit to avoid the station altogether and
> seemed to head towards LAX. I have followed the planes
> in my binocs as far as I could and they seemed to be
> headed that way. BTW, I'm about 24 miles from LAX.
>
> What I find odd is their extremely low altitude this
> far from LAX. The plane tonight looked like an MD80
> or similar and was so low that the wingspan was about
> the same as a fist held at arms length. It was easy to
> see the flaps down and other features even though it
> was night.
>
> There was only the one aircraft tonight but on previous
> occasions there would be as many as 5-6 over a 30 minute
> period all on the same route. Normally there is nothing
> flying around here that low that isn't going into Los Al.
> Most times the F-18's are turning from base to final over
> my head.
>
> So my question is for anyone familiar with the area what
> the deal might be? I'm not concerned. Just extremely
> curious.
>
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> Brian

Maybe LAX needs more noise complaints for additional FAA money.

Skywise wrote...
> Bear with me as I'm not a pilot (someday?) and my
> experiences are based on flight sims. Also, I don't
> know if this is the best group to ask, but I've been
> lurking here for a couple months and you guys seem
> like a nice bunch.
>
> I live a couple miles due east of Los Alamitos Air
> Station (KSLI) in North Orange County, CA. Being an
> aviation nut I enjoy the semi-regular F-18's and
> occasional cargo planes flying overhead.
>
> However, tonight, and on a couple other occasions in
> the past few months, at around 9-10 PMish there have
> been some commercial jets flying extremely low. The
> first time I saw it I thought it was on final to Los
> Al. It was at about the right altitude. They were
> flying west towards the station but just before getting
> there, instead of turning left to land on 22 they
> turned right a bit to avoid the station altogether and
> seemed to head towards LAX. I have followed the planes
> in my binocs as far as I could and they seemed to be
> headed that way. BTW, I'm about 24 miles from LAX.
>
> What I find odd is their extremely low altitude this
> far from LAX. The plane tonight looked like an MD80
> or similar and was so low that the wingspan was about
> the same as a fist held at arms length. It was easy to
> see the flaps down and other features even though it
> was night.
>
> There was only the one aircraft tonight but on previous
> occasions there would be as many as 5-6 over a 30 minute
> period all on the same route. Normally there is nothing
> flying around here that low that isn't going into Los Al.
> Most times the F-18's are turning from base to final over
> my head.
>
> So my question is for anyone familiar with the area what
> the deal might be? I'm not concerned. Just extremely
> curious.
>
> Thanks for any comments.
>
> Brian


Hi Brian,

I live south east of Los Al in Westminster around the 22 freeway at Knott. I
didn't notice planes doing this over the weekend, but I have seen low flying
airliners over the house several times. Most of the time, these guys seem
to be going in to Long Beach. A lot of the time I noticed this was when they
had closed runway 12-30 for construction over the past year or so, and would
land on 25L/25R. The path you describe sure doesn't sound like LGB, but I
thought I'd bring it up as an option. An odd pattern onto LGB runway 12
maybe?

-Tony
p.s. I love that military iron flying the pattern over my house too!

[Skywise]

> wrote in :

<Snipola>
> Hi Brian,
>
> I live south east of Los Al in Westminster around the 22 freeway at
> Knott.

I'm in Stanton south of Katella between Beach & Western.


> I didn't notice planes doing this over the weekend, but I have
> seen low flying airliners over the house several times. Most of
> the time, these guys seem to be going in to Long Beach. A lot of
> the time I noticed this was when they had closed runway 12-30 for
> construction over the past year or so, and would land on 25L/25R.
> The path you describe sure doesn't sound like LGB, but I thought
> I'd bring it up as an option. An odd pattern onto LGB runway 12
> maybe?

Looking at the map in my flight sim I see that if they were
to continue due west they could intercept the ILS for 30 at
LGB, but it'd be close to the middle marker. That would make
for a sharp 45 degrees to the right to get lined up on a
short final.

Or they could get 25L/R as you suggest. However, the planes
that I followed all turned to the north. But here in the city
the horizon is so close due to ground clutter that I may not
be seeing them very far. I can see how they could be making a
dogleg to the north to get lined up for 25L/R.


> -Tony
> p.s. I love that military iron flying the pattern over my house too!

Me too. Back in the early 80's when I was a kid I lived
in Utah for a couple years and we were under the pattern
for Hill AFB. That's where I got hooked. I got to the point
where I could tell you what plane it was and how many there
were just by the sound. I used to watch the F-16's come in
in groups of four and peel off to enter the pattern.

I've always dreamed of getting my license someday but lack
of $$$ get's in the way.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[OP]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:58:47 -0000, Skywise
> wrote:

>Bear with me as I'm not a pilot (someday?) and my
>experiences are based on flight sims. Also, I don't
>know if this is the best group to ask, but I've been
>lurking here for a couple months and you guys seem
>like a nice bunch.
>
>I live a couple miles due east of Los Alamitos Air
>Station (KSLI) in North Orange County, CA. Being an
>aviation nut I enjoy the semi-regular F-18's and
>occasional cargo planes flying overhead.
>
>However, tonight, and on a couple other occasions in
>the past few months, at around 9-10 PMish there have
>been some commercial jets flying extremely low. The
>first time I saw it I thought it was on final to Los
>Al. It was at about the right altitude. They were
>flying west towards the station but just before getting
>there, instead of turning left to land on 22 they
>turned right a bit to avoid the station altogether and
>seemed to head towards LAX. I have followed the planes
>in my binocs as far as I could and they seemed to be
>headed that way. BTW, I'm about 24 miles from LAX.

I believe what you are seeing are commercial jets going into Long
Beach. If you get on DUATS and call up info on Long Beach airport,
they are currently working on the main runway, 30/12 at night, and
are using the VOR approach to 25/7 while the work is in progress.
The work is being done from 10PM to 5AM local time.

Ron

[Skywise]

OP > wrote in :

<Snipola>
> I believe what you are seeing are commercial jets going into Long
> Beach. If you get on DUATS and call up info on Long Beach airport,
> they are currently working on the main runway, 30/12 at night, and
> are using the VOR approach to 25/7 while the work is in progress.
> The work is being done from 10PM to 5AM local time.
>
> Ron

Thank you Ron and others for your input.

The first time it happend I was a bit concerned. My thought
was "what the hell is a commercial jet doing that low HERE?"
But after a few more planes I figured it had to be something
normal and OK.

I can see now how they'd be going into Long Beach as you
describe. From my house you'd have to jog north to line up
on 25. I hadn't realized that Long Beach was actually a bit
north of me in latitude. I thought it was further south
hence my presumption that they were turning north to LAX.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

[Don Hammer]

>I can see now how they'd be going into Long Beach as you
>describe. From my house you'd have to jog north to line up
>on 25. I hadn't realized that Long Beach was actually a bit
>north of me in latitude. I thought it was further south
>hence my presumption that they were turning north to LAX.
>
>Brian

LGB it is. I go there all the time and they are doing a visual
circling approach. Pretty wild from the back. So much so the capt
warns everyone before hand.


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[Michael Nouak]

"Don Hammer" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
>
> >I can see now how they'd be going into Long Beach as you
> >describe. From my house you'd have to jog north to line up
> >on 25. I hadn't realized that Long Beach was actually a bit
> >north of me in latitude. I thought it was further south
> >hence my presumption that they were turning north to LAX.
> >
> >Brian
>
> LGB it is. I go there all the time and they are doing a visual
> circling approach. Pretty wild from the back. So much so the capt
> warns everyone before hand.

Not to doubt your experience, but why would the captain "warn everyone
beforehand" of a visual approach? In my short career as as professional
pilot I've flown visuals into Thessaloniki, Hamburg and Tripoli and we
certainly didn't think it necessary to "warn" anyone.

Mike

[Don Hammer]

>
>Not to doubt your experience, but why would the captain "warn everyone
>beforehand" of a visual approach? In my short career as as professional
>pilot I've flown visuals into Thessaloniki, Hamburg and Tripoli and we
>certainly didn't think it necessary to "warn" anyone.
>
>Mike
>

Mike,

My life has been in corporate aviation, but I ride in excess of
100,000 mi/year on the airlines. It really doesn't make a difference
which aircraft I'm in, there are always some white-knuckle types in
the back. I imagine that this crew and many of the passengers have
for years made straight-in approaches to LGB. Even with the warning,
you could hear the concerns from many as the roof tops zoomed past the
right windows. Something was not normal and they kew it.

I can tell you that even though we had seasoned passengers, we used to
warn the pax prior to going into the old Hong Kong airport. Why? It
was just the courtous thing to do. Was there some requirement for us
gods in the cockpit have to do it? Hell no.

For my part, I appreciate it when the pilots understand what their job
is all about. It isn't just getting a machine from point A to B; the
autopilot can handle that. The real reason we have a job is to
provide safe, efficient, and pleasurable transportation to the folks
that pay for us to have fun in the front.
don