STD Libelle Restoration Reccomendations

[[email protected]]

Hello All,

I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.

1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
4) Any ideas?

Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.


Happy landings,

[[email protected]]

It is worth checking the Airbrake bearings for wear. Igf you are going to refinish the wings it is worth doing them as you have to cut holes..... On this Point, I am trying to find someone who has done this job, as I have this to do in the near future.... Would be good to get some info from someone that has done this job..!!... Craig Lowrie, UK.
On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:31:43 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.
>
> 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
> 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario.. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> 4) Any ideas?
>
> Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
>
>
> Happy landings,

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 20:31:41 -0700, scottyrtobin wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some
> guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below
> is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the
> overall status of the glider as it sits.
>
> 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I
> see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a
> source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first
> hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying
> around? Or any other libelle parts...
> 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy
> vario. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of
> the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel
> as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> 4) Any ideas?
>
> Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
>
What s/n is yours? It has a bearing on a number of things as the
structure and tailplane changed gradually from s/n 111 to s/n 182.

Everything I know about my Std Libelle and Std Libelles in general is
here: https://www.gregorie.org/gliding/libelle/index.html

Have fun with yours.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[[email protected]]

On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:24:08 PM UTC+8, wrote:
> It is worth checking the Airbrake bearings for wear. Igf you are going to refinish the wings it is worth doing them as you have to cut holes..... On this Point, I am trying to find someone who has done this job, as I have this to do in the near future.... Would be good to get some info from someone that has done this job..!!... Craig Lowrie, UK.
> On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:31:43 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.
> >
> > 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> > 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
> > 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> > 4) Any ideas?
> >
> > Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
> >
> >
> > Happy landings,

Hi Craig
I have done the replacement bearing job on both the top pivot bearings and the lower swivel arms, what information are you chasing?
Chris Runeckles
Western Australian Sailplane products (WASP)

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 8:31:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.
>
> 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
> 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario.. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> 4) Any ideas?
>
> Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
>
>
> Happy landings,

Scotty,

Check this out for refinishing.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ventus.htm

Richard

[Nick Kennedy[_3_]]

Scotty
Just my 2 cents
Plan on putting a few bucks into a modern vario/ flight computer.
I think the best bang for the buck is a Cambridge 302 with a associated 303 display tied into a Naviter Oudie. Its easily plugged together, even I can do it and I'm a computer idiot. All you need to do is set the Baud rate of the 320 [ 4800 ] to the Oudie, easy.
This stuff can be picked up used pretty cheap and it works great and will really help you get up and away.
If you fly with any traffic around a Power Flarm is a great safety device which really works.
Get a couple of NEW LiPo batterys too!
Good luck with your project!
Nick
T

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:31:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.
>
> 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
> 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario.. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> 4) Any ideas?
>
> Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
>
>
> Happy landings,

Congrats on your new ship. I'm on my second Std Libelle project.
First- seriously consider refinishing. This is a big job and many are abandoned out of fatigue and frustration. About 1/2 a day into the project the standard comment is "there must be an easier way to do this". There isn't. It takes a lot of hours. We've done this a bunch of times and take about 400 hours to do a refinish.
If the finish is not badly cracked and crazed, consider sanding and polishing the existing finish to extend the useful life. My 201 is 48 years old and the wings are still very good with no cracking. The original Scwaballack finish held up really well. It is also a bitch to sand off.
If you do bite off refinish, do in stages. Fuselage or wings first, then the balance.
Most refinishers use PPG Concept acrylic urethane. There are other options, but this is the most commonly used.
Look at Richard's blog on the topic. It is very informative.
Good luck
UH

[Scotty Tobin]

Yeah that doesn’t look fun. The John Wahl blog is going to be my bible if I decide to cut that hole.

[Scotty Tobin]

I’m an early one but I do at least have the retractable gear. Serial number 32. Is there any further things you would recommend doing to get closer to 201B status?

[Scotty Tobin]

Yeah that’s a great guide for the finishing. His glider came out great. I intend to follow his guide for a lot.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 01:24:06 -0700, craigjlowrie wrote:

> It is worth checking the Airbrake bearings for wear. Igf you are going
> to refinish the wings it is worth doing them as you have to cut
> holes..... On this Point, I am trying to find someone who has done
> this job, as I have this to do in the near future.... Would be good to
> get some info from someone that has done this job..!!... Craig Lowrie,
> UK.
>
Gav Goudie (Cambridge club) has done it. I asked because mine will need
doing at its next annual. The two warnings were that the brakes are
mounted on bolts whose heads are glassed over and not to cut the hole too
close to the rear edge of the bevelled hole the top of the brake sits in:
the back wall of the brake box is further back than you think.

Its probably good idea to talk to Glasfaser beforehand: they're generally
helpful and may have useful diagrams they're prepared to supply.

Last year I moved the pitot from the fin (I suspect the RAFGSA put it
there because that's not inline with the type certificate or in the
glider log). Glasfaser were most helpful, supplying the new internal pitot
as well as technical drawings and photos showing how it should be done.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 13:59:55 -0700, Scotty Tobin wrote:

> I’m an early one but I do at least have the retractable gear. Serial
> number 32. Is there any further things you would recommend doing to get
> closer to 201B status?

I haven't bothered (s/n 82) because you really don't want water in an
early balsa wing: leaking wing bags apparently did for a number of H301s.
And, in the UK anyway, updating airspeed and weight limits to B
specifications is purely a paperwork exercise. I haven't bothered, not
least because I don't come near any of the limits and Vne only increases
by about 5kts.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Scotty Tobin]

On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 8:46:00 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:31:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.
> >
> > 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> > 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
> > 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> > 4) Any ideas?
> >
> > Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
> >
> >
> > Happy landings,
>
> Congrats on your new ship. I'm on my second Std Libelle project.
> First- seriously consider refinishing. This is a big job and many are abandoned out of fatigue and frustration. About 1/2 a day into the project the standard comment is "there must be an easier way to do this". There isn't. It takes a lot of hours. We've done this a bunch of times and take about 400 hours to do a refinish.


Have you done or found anyone's turbulator placement for the top and bottom or is that something that's better to do the actual experimentation for placement. On either of your rebuilds have you gone with the wing fairing? I am considering that if the performance is worth the work.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 7:33:48 PM UTC-4, Scotty Tobin wrote:
> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 8:46:00 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 11:31:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > I recently bought a Standard Libelle and would like some guidance/recommendations/ideas/etc if you guys would be so kind. Below is basically a list of things I would like some help with and the overall status of the glider as it sits.
> > >
> > > 1) Recommendations for epoxy, primer, and polyurethane topcoat brands.. I see a lot of recommendations for a PPG Durathane but I haven't found a source for buying the real stuff. I plan on sanding down to the first hint of green glass and building the glider up.
> > > 2) Any of you libelle owners have a spare canopy or a mold laying around? Or any other libelle parts...
> > > 3) Panel wise, the glider already has a mechanical and total energy vario. I have space for 2 more gauges, but don't plan on adding any of the fancy stuff unless I find a spectacular deal. Might remake the panel as it is a little scrappy as it is.
> > > 4) Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Anything is appreciated. I am new to the airplane ownership club.
> > >
> > >
> > > Happy landings,
> >
> > Congrats on your new ship. I'm on my second Std Libelle project.
> > First- seriously consider refinishing. This is a big job and many are abandoned out of fatigue and frustration. About 1/2 a day into the project the standard comment is "there must be an easier way to do this". There isn't. It takes a lot of hours. We've done this a bunch of times and take about 400 hours to do a refinish.
>
>
> Have you done or found anyone's turbulator placement for the top and bottom or is that something that's better to do the actual experimentation for placement. On either of your rebuilds have you gone with the wing fairing? I am considering that if the performance is worth the work.

I don't have the data on turbulator placement but I recall that it was reported to be a good improvement. Possibly the Libelle group site has it.
I have installed wing root fairings and winglets on a customer ship. Both improved performance and handling. The root fairings make the flow over the tail better and help tracking a good bit.
UH

[Ross[_3_]]

I took a few pictures of the things I did to mine
Somewhere I have the pics of the wheel as well. We changed it to a Beringet disc brake. Worked very well indeed

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B3E7z5NP8BWKT3VfZkdsdFV0cmc

[[email protected]]

Love the carbon fiber stick grip and the leather seat cushion. Did you have those custom made for you or are they off the shelf items you purchased somewhere? Can you share you sources?

Robert

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 1:06:38 AM UTC-5, Ross wrote:
> I took a few pictures of the things I did to mine
> Somewhere I have the pics of the wheel as well. We changed it to a Beringet disc brake. Worked very well indeed
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B3E7z5NP8BWKT3VfZkdsdFV0cmc

[Scotty Tobin]

Do you have a link to this Libelle group site?

[Scotty Tobin]

Ooooohhh that’s a pretty bird. Second on the carbon stick and seat cushion.

You wouldn’t happen to have your original canopy or that mold laying around would you?

[Ross[_3_]]

I get all my upholstery done by a great company in Germany. Interieur.
They have supplied me with all the right stuff for years. no task is too big and they have all the patterns for almost every glider.
I am not affiliated with them in any way but have known them for 25 years

https://interieur-albstadt.de/interieur-die-flugzeugausstatter-aus-albstadt.html

The carbon sticks are also great. I still have one here, but I would need to check the internal diameter to be sure it will fit a libelle, but I am 99% sure it will. If anyone is interested...

The Libelle group that is very active is here:

https://groups.io/g/libelle/topics

Great bunch of guys that are always willing to exchange info and help out where they can.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 9:59:07 AM UTC-4, Scotty Tobin wrote:
> Do you have a link to this Libelle group site?

Join the group- Ross provided the link. Turbulator info is on that site.
UH