View Full Version : Tow plane wanted
Ramy[_2_]
June 15th 20, 02:02 AM
NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.
Thanks
Ramy
Bob Youngblood
June 15th 20, 08:42 PM
I have a beautiful Pawnee for sale at the end of the month. Probably one of the nicest Pawnee's you will find. The Yellow Gorilla as we call it is 180 hp and you will not find a better one. Bob
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 12:42:28 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> I have a beautiful Pawnee for sale at the end of the month. Probably one of the nicest Pawnee's you will find. The Yellow Gorilla as we call it is 180 hp and you will not find a better one. Bob
what sort of tow hook is it fitted with?
Bob Youngblood
June 15th 20, 10:45 PM
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 5:26:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 12:42:28 PM UTC-7, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > I have a beautiful Pawnee for sale at the end of the month. Probably one of the nicest Pawnee's you will find. The Yellow Gorilla as we call it is 180 hp and you will not find a better one. Bob
>
> what sort of tow hook is it fitted with?
Tost
Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
Thanks
Cliff
Ramy[_2_]
June 16th 20, 01:54 AM
Bob I replied to you directly. Please reply directly to my email.
Thanks
Ramy
Bob Youngblood
June 16th 20, 08:49 AM
On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
>
> Thanks
>
> Cliff
The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Cliff
>
> The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
The Yellow Gorilla is what a tow plane should be. TOST release and release handle up where the tow pilot can grab it without diving for the floor. The only tow plane I have seen in a long time with which I would actually consider towing.
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happy Helicopter Pilot
On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Cliff
>
> The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
Hi Bob - tried twice to contact you via P.M. but it doesn't seem to go through - hence the post.
Our club is in the process of moving the tow line release from the Pawnee's floor board to the panel area. Could you make some info available as to how that conversion was done on your Yellow Gorilla?
Thanks,
Uli
'AS'
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:18:30 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Cliff
> >
> > The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
>
> Hi Bob - tried twice to contact you via P.M. but it doesn't seem to go through - hence the post.
> Our club is in the process of moving the tow line release from the Pawnee's floor board to the panel area. Could you make some info available as to how that conversion was done on your Yellow Gorilla?
> Thanks,
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
I also would like to see.
How about a couple photos.
Thanks
UH
Bob Youngblood
June 17th 20, 11:46 PM
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:18:30 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Cliff
> >
> > The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
>
> Hi Bob - tried twice to contact you via P.M. but it doesn't seem to go through - hence the post.
> Our club is in the process of moving the tow line release from the Pawnee's floor board to the panel area. Could you make some info available as to how that conversion was done on your Yellow Gorilla?
> Thanks,
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
Neal Alders
June 18th 20, 12:25 AM
UH, I have looked that bird over pretty good. Its prime for VSC. Email me at and Ill give you some other intel about it. I can fly it up to you as well if needed.
Charles Longley
June 18th 20, 02:26 AM
Two of the Pawnee’s I fly have this exact tow release handle. The other one has a Schweizer release handle in front the throttle. I actually like the handle in front of the throttle better. Both are acceptable to me.
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:46:12 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:18:30 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Cliff
> > >
> > > The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
> >
> > Hi Bob - tried twice to contact you via P.M. but it doesn't seem to go through - hence the post.
> > Our club is in the process of moving the tow line release from the Pawnee's floor board to the panel area. Could you make some info available as to how that conversion was done on your Yellow Gorilla?
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
>
> Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
Bob - from what you are describing, our A&P/AI is trying to use that same location. We already have the Tost tow hook. I did sit in the Pawnee once (not a power- or tow pilot, though) and concluded that one has to have the anatomy of an Orangutan to reach for the handle while still looking forward and out the window!
If you could send me a picture or two to moc.oohay@nnamuenilu that would be great - or post them on your website. There seems to be some general interest in this conversion.
Uli
'AS'
Bob Youngblood
June 18th 20, 10:57 AM
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 9:42:16 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:46:12 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:18:30 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > > > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > > The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild.. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
> > >
> > > Hi Bob - tried twice to contact you via P.M. but it doesn't seem to go through - hence the post.
> > > Our club is in the process of moving the tow line release from the Pawnee's floor board to the panel area. Could you make some info available as to how that conversion was done on your Yellow Gorilla?
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Uli
> > > 'AS'
> >
> > Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> > The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> > I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
>
> Bob - from what you are describing, our A&P/AI is trying to use that same location. We already have the Tost tow hook. I did sit in the Pawnee once (not a power- or tow pilot, though) and concluded that one has to have the anatomy of an Orangutan to reach for the handle while still looking forward and out the window!
> If you could send me a picture or two to moc.oohay@nnamuenilu that would be great - or post them on your website. There seems to be some general interest in this conversion.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
Uli, I will get some information to you I also will get some good information posted on our club Facebook page also. I have also done considerable testing on release tensions required to activate the three different releases that I have used, Tost, Schweizer, and the Pacific Aero, one might be surprised at the results. Bob
> I did sit in the Pawnee once (not a power- or tow pilot, though) and concluded that one has to have the anatomy of an Orangutan to reach for the handle while still looking forward and out the window!
How far did the Orangutan optimized handle extend from the floor?
(We extended ours from about 8 to 20 inches which looked about right for humans.)
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 7:25:33 PM UTC-4, Neal Alders wrote:
> UH, I have looked that bird over pretty good. Its prime for VSC. Email me at and Ill give you some other intel about it. I can fly it up to you as well if needed.
Have 2 good tugs. Somebody else needs it more.
UH
Bob Youngblood
June 18th 20, 01:44 PM
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 7:46:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > I did sit in the Pawnee once (not a power- or tow pilot, though) and concluded that one has to have the anatomy of an Orangutan to reach for the handle while still looking forward and out the window!
>
> How far did the Orangutan optimized handle extend from the floor?
>
> (We extended ours from about 8 to 20 inches which looked about right for humans.)
I would estimate at least 24 inches, I can fly, look straight ahead and easily and comfortably locate and pull the handle. Bob
Bob Youngblood
June 18th 20, 11:16 PM
On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 9:42:16 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 6:46:12 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 3:18:30 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 3:49:50 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > > > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 8:17:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > > Hi bob, hours since major overhaul? Total? and Price?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > > The Pawnee was totally rebuilt and had 17 hours on it since rebuild.. The engine has about 900 hours since total rebuild. I will confirm all the hours and post the actual info tomorrow. The plane was not used to spray with after rebuild, I had it converted to tow. Some here have seen this plane and can confirm the condition. All AD's have been complied with, no hopper, I towed yesterday with it also just completed annual. Asking 51 K, will sell with or without Tost hook. Bob
> > >
> > > Hi Bob - tried twice to contact you via P.M. but it doesn't seem to go through - hence the post.
> > > Our club is in the process of moving the tow line release from the Pawnee's floor board to the panel area. Could you make some info available as to how that conversion was done on your Yellow Gorilla?
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Uli
> > > 'AS'
> >
> > Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> > The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> > I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
>
> Bob - from what you are describing, our A&P/AI is trying to use that same location. We already have the Tost tow hook. I did sit in the Pawnee once (not a power- or tow pilot, though) and concluded that one has to have the anatomy of an Orangutan to reach for the handle while still looking forward and out the window!
> If you could send me a picture or two to moc.oohay@nnamuenilu that would be great - or post them on your website. There seems to be some general interest in this conversion.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
Uli, email me at and I will get you a few pics out.. Bob
Neal Alders
June 19th 20, 01:03 AM
Sorry UH, I misunderstood the question.
Pay no attention to the idiot behind the keyboard.
>
> Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
Bob,
The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.
Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.
Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
Bob Youngblood
June 21st 20, 11:51 AM
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> >
> > Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> > The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> > I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
>
> Bob,
>
> The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.
>
> Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow Pilot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
Walt, tow pilots have a limited window of time to react in such situations as extreme kiting. Back a few months ago I found myself screaming over the radio for the glider pilot to get in position or I was releasing him. The situation suddenly corrected and I was able to continue the tow, but my left hand was on that hopper handle ready to release without taking my eyes off the mirror, and without reaching to the floor for the release handle. IMHO the timeframe of looking and reaching for the release is a deadly combination.
Since this topic has been discussed I have had several individuals ask for pictures and details about the release handle, each request has been responded to with pictures and a word document discussing the different tow hooks and release handle. A few others have also commented that their Pawnee also has used the same handle for the tow release. It really doesn't matter whether you use the hopper handle or fabricate a handle that facilitates ease of reach and accessibility. It certainly could be the tool that brings the tow pilot back for another tow.
On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 6:51:41 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > >
> > > Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> > > The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> > > I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address.. Bob
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.
> >
> > Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.
> >
> > Walt Connelly
> > Former Tow Pilot
> > Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
>
> Walt, tow pilots have a limited window of time to react in such situations as extreme kiting. Back a few months ago I found myself screaming over the radio for the glider pilot to get in position or I was releasing him. The situation suddenly corrected and I was able to continue the tow, but my left hand was on that hopper handle ready to release without taking my eyes off the mirror, and without reaching to the floor for the release handle. IMHO the timeframe of looking and reaching for the release is a deadly combination.
> Since this topic has been discussed I have had several individuals ask for pictures and details about the release handle, each request has been responded to with pictures and a word document discussing the different tow hooks and release handle. A few others have also commented that their Pawnee also has used the same handle for the tow release. It really doesn't matter whether you use the hopper handle or fabricate a handle that facilitates ease of reach and accessibility. It certainly could be the tool that brings the tow pilot back for another tow.
You bring up good point. EVERY training glider should have a radio and the tow plane and student should be in two way communications. (I'm sure a certain commercial operator would have a heart attack if he had to spend the money for this idea). There is no known signal for the tow pilot to tell the glider to get back to the left side and stay in the mirror. Every tow plane should also have a mirror on the right and left. Even if I had a radio during that severe kiting incident I would not have had time to tell the student to release before I was nose down. Your 180 tow plane should be a perfect fit for the Byron club. I believe their tow plane had a 180. Surprised SLGP didn't buy it. They would save money on gas I'm willing to bet. Not sure I would tow a super heavy with water with it but it would be the work horse for 95 percent of the tows.
Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.
Bob Youngblood
June 22nd 20, 08:58 PM
On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 8:46:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 6:51:41 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Uli, I have done this conversion on three Pawnee's that I have owned, and for the life of me I am still at a loss of words as to why others have not done this. The handle is the hopper dump handle standard on all Pawnee's it extends from below the floor and rises up to a position about three feet above the floor. I is a double connected bar that has a bushing and it is fitted in two places.
> > > > The lower end has a slight bend facing forward for the hopper release to attach. Since we have no need for the hopper I removed it and incorporated that handle as the tow release handle. I cut and welded the lower end to face backward to connect to the tow release cable. This handle is extremely strong and the leverage is unequaled compared to other releases. The most important aspect is the location, just forward of the throttle and mixture handle within easy reach in the event of an emergency. IMHO the Schweizer hook is not the big problem, but reaching the release while positioned on the floor is the main culprit. Just strap yourself into a Pawnee and try to reach the floor panel, not an easy thing to do. Now put yourself into an emergency situation and it becomes even more difficult!
> > > > I will be glad to snap a few pics and send them to your email address. Bob
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > The reason "others" haven't done what you did with your tow plane is that "others" have not found themselves pointed at the ground and unable to release while towing an inadequately prepared student pilot or any glider pilot not responding properly to losing sight of the tow plane. Once this happens to those who can make things happen at any club or commercial operation, changes will be made posthaste.
> > >
> > > Any tow plane without a release handle available to the tow pilot sitting in the upright position is a disaster waiting to happen. The FAA and SSA know the recommended release handle (five to one ratio and located down on the floor of the aircraft) when combined with a Schweizer release is inadequate, they both mention this in their advisory circular and in the SSA literature IN BRIGHT RED LETTERS. Lack of mechanical advantage can be corrected, the movers and shakers need to stop waiting and start reacting.
> > >
> > > Walt Connelly
> > > Former Tow Pilot
> > > Now Happy Helicopter Pilot
> >
> > Walt, tow pilots have a limited window of time to react in such situations as extreme kiting. Back a few months ago I found myself screaming over the radio for the glider pilot to get in position or I was releasing him. The situation suddenly corrected and I was able to continue the tow, but my left hand was on that hopper handle ready to release without taking my eyes off the mirror, and without reaching to the floor for the release handle. IMHO the timeframe of looking and reaching for the release is a deadly combination.
> > Since this topic has been discussed I have had several individuals ask for pictures and details about the release handle, each request has been responded to with pictures and a word document discussing the different tow hooks and release handle. A few others have also commented that their Pawnee also has used the same handle for the tow release. It really doesn't matter whether you use the hopper handle or fabricate a handle that facilitates ease of reach and accessibility. It certainly could be the tool that brings the tow pilot back for another tow.
>
> You bring up good point. EVERY training glider should have a radio and the tow plane and student should be in two way communications. (I'm sure a certain commercial operator would have a heart attack if he had to spend the money for this idea). There is no known signal for the tow pilot to tell the glider to get back to the left side and stay in the mirror. Every tow plane should also have a mirror on the right and left. Even if I had a radio during that severe kiting incident I would not have had time to tell the student to release before I was nose down. Your 180 tow plane should be a perfect fit for the Byron club. I believe their tow plane had a 180. Surprised SLGP didn't buy it. They would save money on gas I'm willing to bet. Not sure I would tow a super heavy with water with it but it would be the work horse for 95 percent of the tows.
>
> Walt Connelly
> Former Tow PIlot
> Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.
I will share a story about the radio and the glider pilot, here at TCSC we insist on radio communications between the tow pilot and the glider pilot, NO excuses!It was a few months back when a student pilot had checked out to fly his 1-26. Now it only took 250 flights for the guy to solo, I guess you get the picture. As I was preparing for takeoff I called him three time on the radio to no avail. After the third call I pulled the release on the Gorilla and headed back to the hangar, it was near the end of the day and I had cold beer on ice so as far as I was concerned the day was over.
Suddenly Sky King jumped out of the 1-26 waving the middle finger, AKA, The Bird and approached me as if he wanted to let off a bit of steam. I just laughed as he yelled and said, "I was waving the rudder and that is as good as a radio call". I just shook my head as I enjoyed my cold beer. You know, I never had a problem with him communicating on the radio again, he is always loud and clear on 122.9.
Yes, the Gorilla will make someone a superb tow plane, I know that I will regret departing with the 180. Bob
On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
> NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
> If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ramy
There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.
Happy to discuss if you wish.
Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk
On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
> NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
> If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ramy
There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.
Happy to discuss if you wish.
Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk
On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
> NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
> If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ramy
There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.
Happy to discuss if you wish.
Mike Thorne.
Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
www.bwnd.co.uk
erez balaga
September 27th 20, 12:58 PM
On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 12:05:15 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
> > NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
> > If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ramy
> There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.
>
> Happy to discuss if you wish.
>
> Mike Thorne.
> Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
> www.bwnd.co.uk
Is your club pawnee is for sell?
September 27th 20, 09:11 PM
On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 7:58:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 12:05:15 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> > On Monday, 15 June 2020 02:02:57 UTC+1, Ramy wrote:
> > > NCSA (Byron, CA) is looking for a tow plane (Pawnee preferable) in good shape.
> > > If you have one or know of one please respond here or directly.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Ramy
> > There will be a nice Pawnee 235HP for sale later this year when my Gliding Club here in the UK replaces its towplane with a lightweight Eurofox. The club has owned this Pawnee for 20 years. It had a zero hours engine rebuild about 500 hours ago. All mods done. Fuselage recovered last year. Fully set up for towing. 4 bladed prop and silencer fitted, with spare 2 bladed prop if needed. Originally US registered. Picture on the club website. Plenty more details from me if you want them.
> >
> > Happy to discuss if you wish.
> >
> > Mike Thorne.
> > Bath Wilts and North Dorset Gliding Club.
> > www.bwnd.co.uk
> Is your club pawnee is for sell?
No, the Yellow Gorilla went to the best place that it could ever hope to go NCSA.
September 28th 20, 02:17 PM
Gary Davis has a Calair 260hp that I think is 20hrs SMOH. Its listed on Wingsandwheels.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.