Pitot Heat

[Lakeview Bill]

How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?

[Newps]

Lakeview Bill wrote:

> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?



It's about the last thing I would spend money on. For that mission you
don't really need a pitot tube.

[Steve Foley]

I'd take the pitot tube, but I'd skip the heat.

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Lakeview Bill wrote:
>
> > How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
> > year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>
>
>
> It's about the last thing I would spend money on. For that mission you
> don't really need a pitot tube.

[Bob Gardner]

FAR 23.1323(d) tells manufacturers that if IFR certification is requested,
pitot heat is required. Check your AFM to see if the plane is certificated
for IFR and you have your answer....if it is "yes," the airplane is not
airworthy without it.

Bob Gardner

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
m...
> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>
>

[John T Lowry]

"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
m...
> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>
>
I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power Preparatory
School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield so thick I
broke the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get it off the
windshield of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that was during the
day in VFR conditions.

John Lowry
Flight Physics

[Peter R.]

John T Lowry > wrote:

> I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power Preparatory
> School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield so thick I
> broke the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get it off the
> windshield of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that was during the
> day in VFR conditions.

Freezing rain?


--
Peter













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[Gig 601XL Builder]

"John T Lowry" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
> m...
>> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
>> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>>
>>
> I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power Preparatory
> School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield so thick I broke
> the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get it off the windshield
> of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that was during the day in VFR
> conditions.
>
> John Lowry
> Flight Physics
>

But did that ice first appear during day VFR conditions?

[Bill Zaleski]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:13:57 -0700, "Bob Gardner" >
wrote:

>FAR 23.1323(d) tells manufacturers that if IFR certification is requested,
>pitot heat is required. Check your AFM to see if the plane is certificated
>for IFR and you have your answer....if it is "yes," the airplane is not
>airworthy without it.
>
>Bob Gardner
>
>"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
m...
>> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
>> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>>

Many small single engine aircraft are IFR capable and airworthy, but
were never built with pitot heat. The early PA 28-140 and Cessna 175
didn't even have a pitot head, let alone heat. Just an end of an
aluminum tube end pointing forward. Still legal per the original
drawings. CAR 3 certification basis, Bob, not Part 23.
>>
>

[John T Lowry]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:tKV7e.16620$up2.10612@okepread01...
>
> "John T Lowry" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
>> m...
>>> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
>>> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>>>
>>>
>> I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power
>> Preparatory School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield
>> so thick I broke the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get
>> it off the windshield of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that
>> was during the day in VFR conditions.
>>
>> John Lowry
>> Flight Physics
>>
>
> But did that ice first appear during day VFR conditions?
>
Unfortunately, I don't recall the details. This was back in 1965.

John Lowry
Flight Physics

[Blueskies]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message ...
> FAR 23.1323(d) tells manufacturers that if IFR certification is requested, pitot heat is required. Check your AFM to
> see if the plane is certificated for IFR and you have your answer....if it is "yes," the airplane is not airworthy
> without it.
>
> Bob Gardner
>


I think you can placard it "inop" and you are all set...

[Bob Gardner]

The 1956(?) Cessna 175 I once owned had pitot heat, but I can't deny that
you are right. I wonder how many questions posed in the newsgroups would be
answered differently if we took into account the totality of GA history. I
know that there are a lot of CAR 3 airplanes still flying in the GA fleet,
but I have a habit of answering questions based on more recent standards.

Bob

"Bill Zaleski" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:13:57 -0700, "Bob Gardner" >
> wrote:
>
>>FAR 23.1323(d) tells manufacturers that if IFR certification is requested,
>>pitot heat is required. Check your AFM to see if the plane is certificated
>>for IFR and you have your answer....if it is "yes," the airplane is not
>>airworthy without it.
>>
>>Bob Gardner
>>
>>"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
m...
>>> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
>>> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>>>
>
> Many small single engine aircraft are IFR capable and airworthy, but
> were never built with pitot heat. The early PA 28-140 and Cessna 175
> didn't even have a pitot head, let alone heat. Just an end of an
> aluminum tube end pointing forward. Still legal per the original
> drawings. CAR 3 certification basis, Bob, not Part 23.
>>>
>>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
>
> The 1956(?) Cessna 175 I once owned had pitot heat, but I can't deny that
> you are right.

The Cessna 175 was produced from 1958 to 1962.

[BTIZ]

it would have helped if the original poster had mentioned the yr/make/model
of the aircraft..
I agree that Bob's first answer was correct... check the certification.. and
go by that..

BT

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> The 1956(?) Cessna 175 I once owned had pitot heat, but I can't deny that
> you are right. I wonder how many questions posed in the newsgroups would
> be answered differently if we took into account the totality of GA
> history. I know that there are a lot of CAR 3 airplanes still flying in
> the GA fleet, but I have a habit of answering questions based on more
> recent standards.
>
> Bob
>
> "Bill Zaleski" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:13:57 -0700, "Bob Gardner" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>FAR 23.1323(d) tells manufacturers that if IFR certification is
>>>requested,
>>>pitot heat is required. Check your AFM to see if the plane is
>>>certificated
>>>for IFR and you have your answer....if it is "yes," the airplane is not
>>>airworthy without it.
>>>
>>>Bob Gardner
>>>
>>>"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
m...
>>>> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
>>>> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
>>>>
>>
>> Many small single engine aircraft are IFR capable and airworthy, but
>> were never built with pitot heat. The early PA 28-140 and Cessna 175
>> didn't even have a pitot head, let alone heat. Just an end of an
>> aluminum tube end pointing forward. Still legal per the original
>> drawings. CAR 3 certification basis, Bob, not Part 23.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

It's been a long time since I owned it in the late 60s and I no longer have
any records, thus the question mark.

Bob

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> The 1956(?) Cessna 175 I once owned had pitot heat, but I can't deny that
>> you are right.
>
> The Cessna 175 was produced from 1958 to 1962.
>

[Lakeview Bill]

Actually, my question was intended to be a "generic" question.

I am looking at several different Light Sport Aircraft, and none of the
specs mention Pitot Heat, either as a standard item or as an option.

I'm not tied to a desk, so, if the planets and stars all align, I will be in
a situation where I can be sitting in my living room, decide to "go", and be
in the air in about an hour.

But given that I am in Chicago, I'm trying to determine the absolute
necessity of pitot heat, as, since I will only have a Sport Pilot ticket, I
will be restricted to VFR day only.

I'm already planning to spend the extra $$$ to get carb heat, which is an
option on most of the a/c I'm looking at, and now I'm looking at pitot heat.

Thanks to everyone who's already replied...



"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:iiZ7e.12008$%c1.1265@fed1read05...
> it would have helped if the original poster had mentioned the
yr/make/model
> of the aircraft..
> I agree that Bob's first answer was correct... check the certification..
and
> go by that..
>
> BT
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The 1956(?) Cessna 175 I once owned had pitot heat, but I can't deny
that
> > you are right. I wonder how many questions posed in the newsgroups would
> > be answered differently if we took into account the totality of GA
> > history. I know that there are a lot of CAR 3 airplanes still flying in
> > the GA fleet, but I have a habit of answering questions based on more
> > recent standards.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > "Bill Zaleski" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:13:57 -0700, "Bob Gardner" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>FAR 23.1323(d) tells manufacturers that if IFR certification is
> >>>requested,
> >>>pitot heat is required. Check your AFM to see if the plane is
> >>>certificated
> >>>for IFR and you have your answer....if it is "yes," the airplane is not
> >>>airworthy without it.
> >>>
> >>>Bob Gardner
> >>>
> >>>"Lakeview Bill" > wrote in message
> m...
> >>>> How necessary would it be to have a pitot heater if you are flying
> >>>> year-round VFR day (only) in the Chicago area?
> >>>>
> >>
> >> Many small single engine aircraft are IFR capable and airworthy, but
> >> were never built with pitot heat. The early PA 28-140 and Cessna 175
> >> didn't even have a pitot head, let alone heat. Just an end of an
> >> aluminum tube end pointing forward. Still legal per the original
> >> drawings. CAR 3 certification basis, Bob, not Part 23.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:17:41 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
> wrote:

>But given that I am in Chicago, I'm trying to determine the absolute
>necessity of pitot heat, as, since I will only have a Sport Pilot ticket, I
>will be restricted to VFR day only.

Well, I have never flown an airplane with pitot heat, nor can I
imagine much utility for it in a Light Sport Aircraft.

When I took my first lesson, I complained to the instructor that his
shoulders were blocking my view of the instruments (tandem Cub),
whereupon he covered them with his hands and said: "You don't need
this XXXX! Fly with what's outside the airplane!"

Well, I do like to see the airspeed indicator, but I am absolutely
sure that I could safely land the airplane without it.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Mike W.]

If there was 1/4" to 3/8" ice on my airplane, a plugged pitot tube is not my
only problem.

--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....


>
> I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power Preparatory
> School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield so thick I
> broke the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get it off the
> windshield of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that was during the
> day in VFR conditions.
>
> John Lowry
> Flight Physics
>
>

[Mike W.]

Good decision, I would consider carb heat a necessity on any aircraft.

The only reason you might consider adding the pitot heat would be resale
value of the plane later on, might make it a little more appealing to a
buyer.


--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....


> I'm already planning to spend the extra $$$ to get carb heat, which is an
> option on most of the a/c I'm looking at, and now I'm looking at pitot
heat.
>
> Thanks to everyone who's already replied...
>
>

[john smith]

In the Champ, I can see the reflection of the airspeed and altimeter in
the side windows (mirror image).

Cub Driver wrote:
> When I took my first lesson, I complained to the instructor that his
> shoulders were blocking my view of the instruments (tandem Cub),
> whereupon he covered them with his hands and said: "You don't need
> this XXXX! Fly with what's outside the airplane!"

[Newps]

I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power Preparatory
> School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield so thick I
> broke the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get it off the
> windshield of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that was during the
> day in VFR conditions.




One freak time 35 years ago, on a car no less, and that qualifies as
very necessary? Remove head from ass.

[jeremiah johnson]

Newps wrote:
> I'll vote "very necessary." Once at the Naval Nuclear Power Preparatory
> > School, in North Chicago, there was ice on my windshield so thick I
> > broke the tip off my Herter's sheath knife trying to get it off the
> > windshield of my car. About 1/4" to 3/8" thick. And that was during the
> > day in VFR conditions.
>
> One freak time 35 years ago, on a car no less, and that qualifies as
> very necessary? Remove head from ass.
>

i'm fairly certain that response is neither necessary or constructive.
his point was that it can happen, and it can. in his mind, the pitot
heat question is answered with a "yes." your's isn't. so what?
there's no need to try to silence him.

[Tony]

fwiw, I'm a fairly high time pilot (IFR). I need carb heat a lot more
than pitot heat in VFR. At run up on a normally carburated engine if
you don't get an RPM dropoff when you pull the carb heat on, you don't
go. There's no such test for pitot heat (although I will tell you if
I'm going IFR I turn it on for a while when first in the cockpit, then
make sure it's warm during the walk around.

[Mike W.]

Yup, even if you aren't planning on using it, it is nice to know what works
and what doesn't before you leave the ground.

--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....


"Tony" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> fwiw, I'm a fairly high time pilot (IFR). I need carb heat a lot more
> than pitot heat in VFR. At run up on a normally carburated engine if
> you don't get an RPM dropoff when you pull the carb heat on, you don't
> go. There's no such test for pitot heat (although I will tell you if
> I'm going IFR I turn it on for a while when first in the cockpit, then
> make sure it's warm during the walk around.
>

[Highflyer]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> In the Champ, I can see the reflection of the airspeed and altimeter in
> the side windows (mirror image).
>
> Cub Driver wrote:
>> When I took my first lesson, I complained to the instructor that his
>> shoulders were blocking my view of the instruments (tandem Cub),
>> whereupon he covered them with his hands and said: "You don't need
>> this XXXX! Fly with what's outside the airplane!"

A friend of mine starts new taildragger transition students out by covering
the entire instrument panel with a towel.

Another friend owns an OX5 powered WACO 10. When this airplane was built
the "airspeed" indicator was considered an "optional" accessory and the
person who bought the airplane new didn't buy ANY of the "optional extras."
:-) It is the only currently certified aircraft I know of that is legally
certified without an airspeed indicator. The altimeter only has one needle
and it isn't very accurate. :-) You were supposed to fly by looking outside
the aircraft and by listening to the wind in the wires and feeling the
controls.

I have sure flown in a lot of Cessnas where the airspeed indicator is WAY
over on the far left side of the panel. When you consider the instructor is
way over in the right seat, I doubt very much that the instructor is looking
at the airspeed indicator very often on final approach! I know I sure don't
when I am sitting on the right. :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )