German RT

[[email protected]]

Hello, Goetentag,

I'm planning to do a trip to Germany.
Did that a couple of times before but I restricted my airfields to the
ones that has English as RT too. Now I like to go to some small fields.

I've the official German RT stuff from the internet and can memorize
the phrases but I'm not sure if that is enough.
Do they stick to the official phrases or is it more common to add some
extra talk that is not so official.

The few times I listend to German radio I was able to understand what
they were saying.

My German is slightly less hopeless than my French and it worked there.


Any info would be helpfull.

-Kees

[Patrick Mayer]

IMHO you have to have a German Radio Operator's Permit in order to talk
German on the radio. English is OK with your U.S. certificate, of course.

Patrick

[Stefan]

Patrick Mayer wrote:

> English is OK with your U.S. certificate, of course.

If there were not that little problem that on smaller places, they might
not understand English.

Stefan

[[email protected]]

Well, I'm Dutch so is my license.
But my RT is English only.
And my plane has a German registration.
To make it even more international, it is build in France.

Thanks for the warning.

A bit of a pity, I like small fields with short runways, you have lots
of these.

-Kees

[[email protected]]

Having fun in Germany is no problem, certainly with that excellent beer
you guys have.
That is after the flying off course :-)

-Kees

[Markus Voget]

wrote:

> I'm planning to do a trip to Germany.
> Did that a couple of times before but I restricted my airfields to the
> ones that has English as RT too. Now I like to go to some small fields.

At my uncontrolled home field (EDRT), I have overheard many times English
transmissions in between the usual German stuff. The "tower" personnel
seemed to switch quite effortlessly between languages. At times, I have
personally used English to make myself understood to the other pilot
sharing the sky with me.

> I've the official German RT stuff from the internet and can memorize
> the phrases but I'm not sure if that is enough.
> Do they stick to the official phrases or is it more common to add some
> extra talk that is not so official.

It can get non-standard occasionally but most of the time you should be
able to get along with standard phraseology. When in doubt, you could
always try English even if this is not published. Chances are you will
get a useful reply almost everywhere.

Pay close attention to the published traffic patterns. These often have
to do with noise complaints from neighbors phoning in to the airport. For
example, if you cut the pattern too close at EDRT (and thus overfly a
certain village), you can expect to be chewed out over the radio, either
in German or English depending on the mood of the "controller".

> The few times I listend to German radio I was able to understand what
> they were saying.

That should be a good basis. Fly safely, and have fun!


Greetings,
Markus

[Brad Zeigler]

Hoisting a few lagers would most certainly send a pilot off course.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Having fun in Germany is no problem, certainly with that excellent beer
> you guys have.
> That is after the flying off course :-)
>
> -Kees
>

[Paul]

Hi,

I fly and operate parachute aircraft out of Bad Lippspringe near Paderborn.
English is used throughout and invariably all the controllers are excellent.
You will not have a problem. Enjoy!

Paul

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello, Goetentag,
>
> I'm planning to do a trip to Germany.
> Did that a couple of times before but I restricted my airfields to the
> ones that has English as RT too. Now I like to go to some small fields.
>
> I've the official German RT stuff from the internet and can memorize
> the phrases but I'm not sure if that is enough.
> Do they stick to the official phrases or is it more common to add some
> extra talk that is not so official.
>
> The few times I listend to German radio I was able to understand what
> they were saying.
>
> My German is slightly less hopeless than my French and it worked there.
>
>
> Any info would be helpfull.
>
> -Kees
>

[jsmith]

Is there a website with these phrases?

wrote:
> I've the official German RT stuff from the internet and can memorize
> the phrases but I'm not sure if that is enough.
> Do they stick to the official phrases or is it more common to add some
> extra talk that is not so official.

[G. Sylvester]

Grus di.... (ok, that isn't even German ;-) )

> VFR-only operators aren't even required to know
> English phraseology,....

I can't say definitely but I thought all communication at
night is to be English only. From my very limited experience
in Germany and from what I understand, the English used is
'by the book.' Everything is formal pre-determined phrases
and nothing more so 'blabbering' over the radio won't happen.

Gerald

[G. Sylvester]

Brad Zeigler wrote:

> Hoisting a few lagers would most certainly send a pilot off course.

Well instead of lead shot in the back, just throw a few mass and
a halb hendl.

Gerald

[Stefan]

G. Sylvester wrote:

> From my very limited experience
> in Germany and from what I understand, the English used is
> 'by the book.' Everything is formal pre-determined phrases

Don't forget that in Germany (and most other countries) English is a
foreign language which even many pilots can barely understand and speak.
So sticking to pre-defined phrases is the only way to go.

Stefan

[G. Sylvester]

Stefan wrote:
> G. Sylvester wrote:
>
>> From my very limited experience
>> in Germany and from what I understand, the English used is
>> 'by the book.' Everything is formal pre-determined phrases
> Don't forget that in Germany (and most other countries) English is a
> foreign language which even many pilots can barely understand and speak.
> So sticking to pre-defined phrases is the only way to go.

genau. That was exactly my point. Also a lot of slang terms that
native speakers don't even realize is slang is very hard to understand.
In fact, many Europeans learn Queens English which is sometimes
more difficult to understand for an American than understanding
the 'foreign' language.

BTW, do a web search for Mark Twain's essay on the German language.
It's absolutely classic and in many regards accurate.

Gerald

[G. Sylvester]

>>Is there a website with these phrases?

the first thing to know is "Nein" (pronounced like
the number 9) is 'no' in German. And that is
why we say "nine-r" instead of just "nine."

Gerald

[Stefan]

G. Sylvester wrote:

> BTW, do a web search for Mark Twain's essay on the German language.
> It's absolutely classic and in many regards accurate.

"A Tramp Abroad", Appendix D (The Awful German Language)

Stefan

[[email protected]]

I'm going to study on the German RT and next time I go to a EN/GE field
I ask if I can try the RT in German.
I think after some practice things will go relative easy.
There are some small fields that support both languages.(Stadtlohn,
Dahlemer Binz for example)
Me being smart(some times) I've marked all fields with English on the
German map in my Bottlang.

I do not trust FIS to much, had a few occasions that 'Langen
Information' was running a tape saying that for bla bla bla contact bla
bla bla on freqency bla bla.
Then the fun starts, trying to get a call thru Dusseldorf, or one of
those busy places, just to activate a VFR flight plan.

Anyway, I like flying there.
-Kees

[Patrick Mayer]

> Having fun in Germany is no problem, certainly with that excellent beer
> you guys have.

...if you can afford it after refueling (compared to the U.S. it feels like
the fuel truck serves liquid gold) :-/

Have fun, anyway!
Patrick

[Thomas Borchert]

Stefan,

> So sticking to pre-defined phrases is the only way to go.
>

And because foreign pilots are (still) allowed to fly in the US, it
should be the same there, too. But, no such joy. US airline pilots
saying numbers on the radio really tick me off...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jens Krueger]

Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> US airline pilots
> saying numbers on the radio really tick me off...

Huh? Can you elaborate?

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jens,


"United Twentyonefortyone, out of fourteenhundred climbing to
fiftyfive."

That's just a minor nit, though - US radio traffic is full of
non-standard stuff.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jens Krueger]

Thomas Borchert > wrote:

> "United Twentyonefortyone,

It's actually easier to remember and takes less time to say than United
two-one-for-one.

Yankspeak (= US equivalent of ICAO R/T) is there because it saves time,
and there's not much of it in the high density airspaces. I've listened
for a while to Schiphols ATC (as far as I know the only european atc
available on the web) and it's astonishing how much of their R/T is just
redundant, over and over the same stuff, just tying up the airwaves.

> out of fourteenhundred climbing to
> fiftyfive."

Well, that's just sloppy... ;-)

> That's just a minor nit, though - US radio traffic is
> full of non-standard stuff.

I don't know exact numbers but there's a substantial percentage of
US-Airline pilots, that have never flown outside US-Airspace and the
only thing they know and subsequently teach to others is yankspeak. When
I flew the islands, you won't believe how many US Airline Pilots weren't
familiar with the term line-up and wait. ;-)

But you can say one thing about Yankspeak: It's very efficient.

Cheers,
Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[G. Sylvester]

Jens Krueger wrote:
> you won't believe how many US Airline Pilots weren't
> familiar with the term line-up and wait. ;-)
> But you can say one thing about Yankspeak: It's very efficient.

hehehehe. German is VERY efficient as it usually only takes
one 'word' compared to many in other languages. for instance,
here are some words from a letter I had to write about the
taxes I had to pay when I lived in Germany.

sozialversicherungspflichtig
Progressionsvorbehaltsberechnung
Einkommensteuergesetzes


think about it, "Cherokee four one niner zulu tango, six
miles northeast of FUBAR, maintain three thousand until established on
the final approach corridor, cleared for the Sacramento Executive
two-niner right approach" simply gets shortened to a single word. :)

Gerald

[Peter Duniho]

"G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
m...
> [...]
> think about it, "Cherokee four one niner zulu tango, six
> miles northeast of FUBAR, maintain three thousand until established on
> the final approach corridor, cleared for the Sacramento Executive
> two-niner right approach" simply gets shortened to a single word. :)

Yeah. It's gets "shortened" to:

"CherokeefouroneninerzulutangosixmilesnortheastofFU BARmaintainthreethousanduntilestablishedonthefinal approachcorridorclearedfortheSacramentoExecutivetw oninerrightapproach"

That's SO much better. :p

[G. Sylvester]

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "G. Sylvester" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>[...]
>>think about it, "Cherokee four one niner zulu tango, six
>>miles northeast of FUBAR, maintain three thousand until established on
>>the final approach corridor, cleared for the Sacramento Executive
>>two-niner right approach" simply gets shortened to a single word. :)
>
>
> Yeah. It's gets "shortened" to:
>
> "CherokeefouroneninerzulutangosixmilesnortheastofFU BARmaintainthreethousanduntilestablishedonthefinal approachcorridorclearedfortheSacramentoExecutivetw oninerrightapproach"

one word. Now that is efficient.

So do you have to address the controller as "Doctor Doctor
Muenchen Approach...." if the controller has 2 PhD's? If
you don't, including if you only say "Doctor Muenchen..."
do they refuse to talk to you? :)

Gerald

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

G. Sylvester wrote:
> So do you have to address the controller as "Doctor Doctor
> Muenchen Approach...." if the controller has 2 PhD's? If
> you don't, including if you only say "Doctor Muenchen..."
> do they refuse to talk to you? :)


Of course; you've shown no respect. Isn't it "Herr Doktor Muenchen"?




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[G. Sylvester]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


> Of course; you've shown no respect. Isn't it "Herr Doktor Muenchen"?

hehehe. I'm sure their business title was a "manager of air" too.
After all, in the EU, all employees are managers. My old German,
woops sorry, Bavarian company had 47% managers including some
praktikantin (student interns). I used to address medical doctors
by their first name. They knew I was a New Yorker so they just
laughed and called me by my first name or something more appropriate
like "scheisskerl." :)

Gerald