Wing pin grease

[[email protected]]

I have a v2Cx with 4 lift pins where the wings connect to the fuselage.

These get cleaned and greased with white grease on each assembly.

I'm noticing that the grease under the lift bearings gets squeezed out in flight. (Looks like maybe metal to metal contact.)

Is there a preferred grease to use there.
Maybe something with a graphite or moly fill?

[Craig Reinholt]

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 6:38:46 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I have a v2Cx with 4 lift pins where the wings connect to the fuselage.
>
> These get cleaned and greased with white grease on each assembly.
>
> I'm noticing that the grease under the lift bearings gets squeezed out in flight. (Looks like maybe metal to metal contact.)
>
> Is there a preferred grease to use there.
> Maybe something with a graphite or moly fill?

There are 2 prior threads that addressed this subject. Both are very informative. Check them out.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/Red$20n$20tacky/rec.aviation.soaring/w78L5_PtszE/HCk8muk-AgAJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/Red$20n$20tacky/rec.aviation.soaring/WzrvfnwifrU/8aB5F6EmAgAJ

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 8:38:46 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> I have a v2Cx with 4 lift pins where the wings connect to the fuselage.
>
> These get cleaned and greased with white grease on each assembly.
>
> I'm noticing that the grease under the lift bearings gets squeezed out in flight. (Looks like maybe metal to metal contact.)
>
> Is there a preferred grease to use there.
> Maybe something with a graphite or moly fill?

SuperLube is super. Nothing comes close.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Lube-21030-3oz-Tube-Synthetic-Grease-PTFE-Dielectric-USDA-H-1-SAMEDAY-SHIP/113247963489?epid=733561963&hash=item1a5e1ac961:g:rSEAAOSwCMtac3IU

[[email protected]]

> SuperLube is super. Nothing comes close.

Thanks

You know I actually had some in the assembly box, but it felt too thin so I used the good old Lucas White. The SuperLube didn't pass the feels right test for grease that has served me well for wheel bearings for decades.

Reading today I learned there are two grease film tests.
Timken OK (ASTM 2509) for rolling bearings.
Four Ball (ASTM 2596) for sliding things like ball joints.

Super lube is a bit behind for rolling, but way ahead for sliding.

Lucus Extreme Pressure Synthetic Grease appears even better?
https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Extreme_Pressure_valve_Grease.pdf

Today is clean out the white grease, inspect and put in the fancy stuff.


I continue to be amazed at the new things to learn with gliders.

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

Take a look at Lucas Red & Tacky. The Timken numbers are slightly better than the Extreme.
https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Red-Tacky-Grease.pdf

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 6:38:46 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I have a v2Cx with 4 lift pins where the wings connect to the fuselage.
>
> These get cleaned and greased with white grease on each assembly.
>
> I'm noticing that the grease under the lift bearings gets squeezed out in flight. (Looks like maybe metal to metal contact.)
>
> Is there a preferred grease to use there.
> Maybe something with a graphite or moly fill?

Try Aeroshell Grease 33. Don't get it on your clothes though - the properties that make it a good grease also make it difficult to get out of fabrics if you make a mess.

[2G]

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 1:45:46 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Monday, July 6, 2020 at 6:38:46 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > I have a v2Cx with 4 lift pins where the wings connect to the fuselage.
> >
> > These get cleaned and greased with white grease on each assembly.
> >
> > I'm noticing that the grease under the lift bearings gets squeezed out in flight. (Looks like maybe metal to metal contact.)
> >
> > Is there a preferred grease to use there.
> > Maybe something with a graphite or moly fill?
>
> Try Aeroshell Grease 33. Don't get it on your clothes though - the properties that make it a good grease also make it difficult to get out of fabrics if you make a mess.

Just get some spray-on silicone lube - it really doesn't matter what you use (if everything is aligned you don't need any lube, just clean the grease off of the pins). Certainly don't use anything that is messy, i.e. stains your clothes.

Tom

Tom

[[email protected]]

> Just get some spray-on silicone lube - it really doesn't matter what you use (if everything is aligned you don't need any lube, just clean the grease off of the pins). Certainly don't use anything that is messy, i.e. stains your clothes.
>
> Tom
>
> Tom

I wouldn't use any lube with silicone; makes it hard to paint. Matter of fact, I agree with Tom that the problem isn't lubrication, it's the unnecessary close tolerances those (mostly) German engineers design in. What I do is take a Dremel with a small 1cm diameter sanding stone and shave off about 0.5mm of steel from the receiver holes. Makes assembly much easier and no lubrication means its better on the environment.

[Tango Whisky]

you are certainly not an engineer - that's the most stupid solution I ever heard of.

[Dee[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 12:11:34 AM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
> you are certainly not an engineer - that's the most stupid solution I ever heard of.

Too radical for you? Well, sometimes one has to think out of the box to resolve difficult issues. I'll offer you a couple more solutions since I captured your attention:
1). Pin alignment: previously addressed. No need for that expensive "3-man rigger".
2). Flying in the northern states under weak conditions? I fill my water ballast tanks with helium gas (No, Capt. Obvious, do not use hydrogen!). The tanks must be completely sealed first, so I flush them with a little water and OTC "leak-stop" radiator plug. Glider too light and won't come down? Carry a small tank of N2O to purge out the helium. N2O is heavier than air, so titrate carefully to adjust rate of descent. (Note: After those exhausting 10 hr flights I like to hook my O2 system up to this tank; seems to take the edge off.
3). Static line or self-deployed parachute? Solved: Once I am settled in the cockpit, and before take-off, I pull the D-ring. That way following a mid-air collision and if unconsciousness ensues, deployment is totally automatic (No BRS rocket needed). Works better if you don't use seat belts, but that's OK as the stick will prevent you from submarining forward.

[Dan Marotta]

:-D

On 7/14/2020 12:46 AM, Dee wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 12:11:34 AM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
>> you are certainly not an engineer - that's the most stupid solution I ever heard of.
> Too radical for you? Well, sometimes one has to think out of the box to resolve difficult issues. I'll offer you a couple more solutions since I captured your attention:
> 1). Pin alignment: previously addressed. No need for that expensive "3-man rigger".
> 2). Flying in the northern states under weak conditions? I fill my water ballast tanks with helium gas (No, Capt. Obvious, do not use hydrogen!). The tanks must be completely sealed first, so I flush them with a little water and OTC "leak-stop" radiator plug. Glider too light and won't come down? Carry a small tank of N2O to purge out the helium. N2O is heavier than air, so titrate carefully to adjust rate of descent. (Note: After those exhausting 10 hr flights I like to hook my O2 system up to this tank; seems to take the edge off.
> 3). Static line or self-deployed parachute? Solved: Once I am settled in the cockpit, and before take-off, I pull the D-ring. That way following a mid-air collision and if unconsciousness ensues, deployment is totally automatic (No BRS rocket needed). Works better if you don't use seat belts, but that's OK as the stick will prevent you from submarining forward.

--
Dan, 5J

[AS]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 12:32:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Just get some spray-on silicone lube - it really doesn't matter what you use (if everything is aligned you don't need any lube, just clean the grease off of the pins). Certainly don't use anything that is messy, i.e. stains your clothes.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Tom
>
> I wouldn't use any lube with silicone; makes it hard to paint. Matter of fact, I agree with Tom that the problem isn't lubrication, it's the unnecessary close tolerances those (mostly) German engineers design in. What I do is take a Dremel with a small 1cm diameter sanding stone and shave off about 0.5mm of steel from the receiver holes. Makes assembly much easier and no lubrication means its better on the environment.

You are just kidding, right? I sure hope so!

Uli
'AS'

[kinsell]

On 7/14/20 7:27 AM, AS wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 12:32:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>>> Just get some spray-on silicone lube - it really doesn't matter what you use (if everything is aligned you don't need any lube, just clean the grease off of the pins). Certainly don't use anything that is messy, i.e. stains your clothes.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>> I wouldn't use any lube with silicone; makes it hard to paint. Matter of fact, I agree with Tom that the problem isn't lubrication, it's the unnecessary close tolerances those (mostly) German engineers design in. What I do is take a Dremel with a small 1cm diameter sanding stone and shave off about 0.5mm of steel from the receiver holes. Makes assembly much easier and no lubrication means its better on the environment.
>
> You are just kidding, right? I sure hope so!
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
>

Umm, I believe she was poking a bit of fun at Tom, who suggested
skipping the grease altogether. Possibly he was joking, but I'm afraid
he might have been serious.

If you post sarcasm on R.A.S. would anybody ever notice?

[Dee[_2_]]

Fine, laugh all you want....and I was going to share with you my guaranteed final glide extender. As they say, "No clue for you!"

[Dee[_2_]]

Fine, laugh all you want....and I was going to share with you my guaranteed final glide extender. As they say, "No clue for you!"....so I'll be waiting for you at the finish line if you can make it.

[2G]

On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 7:17:10 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> On 7/14/20 7:27 AM, AS wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 12:32:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> >>> Just get some spray-on silicone lube - it really doesn't matter what you use (if everything is aligned you don't need any lube, just clean the grease off of the pins). Certainly don't use anything that is messy, i.e. stains your clothes.
> >>>
> >>> Tom
> >>>
> >>> Tom
> >>
> >> I wouldn't use any lube with silicone; makes it hard to paint. Matter of fact, I agree with Tom that the problem isn't lubrication, it's the unnecessary close tolerances those (mostly) German engineers design in. What I do is take a Dremel with a small 1cm diameter sanding stone and shave off about 0.5mm of steel from the receiver holes. Makes assembly much easier and no lubrication means its better on the environment.
> >
> > You are just kidding, right? I sure hope so!
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
> >
>
> Umm, I believe she was poking a bit of fun at Tom, who suggested
> skipping the grease altogether. Possibly he was joking, but I'm afraid
> he might have been serious.
>
> If you post sarcasm on R.A.S. would anybody ever notice?

No, I wasn't joking - most of the time I don't bother greasing the pins at all (it just doesn't make any difference).

Tom

[Dan Marotta]

I've got to agree with Tom on this one.Â* Cleaning off and reapplying
grease to the wing pins of all of my previous gliders seemed like such a
waste of time, especially since I stored the pins in lengths of plastic
tubing which had a diameter slightly larger than the pins and that kept
them clean.Â* My Stemme tells me when it needs the grease to be refreshed
by making the main pins resist ever so slightly being pushed home.

On 7/16/2020 11:09 PM, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 7:17:10 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
>> On 7/14/20 7:27 AM, AS wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020 at 12:32:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>>>>> Just get some spray-on silicone lube - it really doesn't matter what you use (if everything is aligned you don't need any lube, just clean the grease off of the pins). Certainly don't use anything that is messy, i.e. stains your clothes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>> I wouldn't use any lube with silicone; makes it hard to paint. Matter of fact, I agree with Tom that the problem isn't lubrication, it's the unnecessary close tolerances those (mostly) German engineers design in. What I do is take a Dremel with a small 1cm diameter sanding stone and shave off about 0.5mm of steel from the receiver holes. Makes assembly much easier and no lubrication means its better on the environment.
>>> You are just kidding, right? I sure hope so!
>>>
>>> Uli
>>> 'AS'
>>>
>> Umm, I believe she was poking a bit of fun at Tom, who suggested
>> skipping the grease altogether. Possibly he was joking, but I'm afraid
>> he might have been serious.
>>
>> If you post sarcasm on R.A.S. would anybody ever notice?
> No, I wasn't joking - most of the time I don't bother greasing the pins at all (it just doesn't make any difference).
>
> Tom

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

> I've got to agree with Tom on this one.Â* Cleaning off and reapplying
> grease to the wing pins of all of my previous gliders seemed like such a
> waste

Interesting, on my Ventus B, it seemed harder to assemble if I didn't replace the grease every other assembly. I haven't repeated the experiment on the Ventus 2. I felt that wiping out the grease and replacing was good insurance if also wipes out the dirt which is potentially abrasive. It's hard to argue with success if old grease is keeping your pins pretty.

I asked about grease because with the good ole' white grease, I was seeing a ring of dark stuff on the load bearing surfaces of the pins after flying. Thought it might be metal from the pin. Since then, I got out Mr. Starret and measured. Everything looks good, so perhaps the dark stuff was from the grease.

Perhaps resorting to digesting grease specs is an early warning sign of Covid cabin fever. Naa, the inner nerd would do it anyway. Cheers.

[[email protected]]

out west in the dust bowl that I fly in ( you name an airport in AZ that isnt one) it makes sense to clean and lube every assy. otherwise the paste mix that ensues wears in everything. I e replaced everything at least once even with cleaning and regreasing every time. But then Most people dont put the hours on their ships that I used to :)

[Sci Fi]

At 03:48 18 July 2020, wrote:
>out west in the dust bowl that I fly in ( you name an airport in AZ that
>is=
>nt one) it makes sense to clean and lube every assy. otherwise the paste
>mi=
>x that ensues wears in everything. I e replaced everything at least once
>ev=
>en with cleaning and regreasing every time. But then Most people dont put
>t=
>he hours on their ships that I used to :)
>

Most of the dust is near the ground, you should try flying a little
higher...

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

My observation is that grease makes a difference in reducing lift pin wear from fretting. It’s pretty much impossible to get the wings to fit tight enough to avoid the lift pins sliding in and out of the bearings when yaw forces are transferred between the fuselage and wings. It isn’t much movement, but over time it’s a significant cause of wear. The movement should be reduced as much as possible by inserting shims, but getting to zero movement makes assembly difficult. No free lunch.

Craig
JN

[[email protected]]

Most of the dust is near the ground, you should try flying a little
higher...

Lol! Ive seen dust devils past 10k agl! But as 6K used to say "All I ever find in dust devils is dust"

CH