Is a 152 a good start?

[AliR]

Hi Everyone,

I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
$30K.

Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).

How much is the operational cost of a 152?

AliR.

[Dan Luke]

"AliR" wrote:
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane?

A Cherokee 140 is a more useful airplane for about the same money.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Casey Wilson]

"AliR" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).
>
> How much is the operational cost of a 152?

Overall, it is a good first plane. Five GPH is a reasonable number for
fuel consumption in the -15x series. But if you are going to include all the
ownership costs in figuring the operational cost per hour, too many
variables exist for me to help there. While the -152 might be a reasonable
IFR training platform, it might not be all that comfortable in the skag. For
example, with the relatively slower speed you'll thrash around in the
turbulence longer and the excursions may well be more dramatic. But you've
probably already figured that out.
If you are a member of AOPA, you can do an aircraft evaluation (VRef)
on the web site. That's a good place to find out the value. The more
information you have about the avionics, the more accurate will be the
valuation.

[John Galban]

Casey Wilson wrote:
> If you are a member of AOPA, you can do an aircraft evaluation
(VRef)
> on the web site. That's a good place to find out the value. The more
> information you have about the avionics, the more accurate will be
the
> valuation.

I've been using VRef for years and the values they put out are always
high. They are generally higher than the asking prices that you see
published TAP (which means they're probably much higher than the actual
sale price).

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Carl Orton]

Depends on what you really want to do with it. For a time builder, it can't
be beat. If you want to fly *with* anyone (and either of you are more than
170 lbs), it's not that good.

When I was looking for my first plane, I, too, was considering only
150/152s. Every plane I looked at, when I asked why they were selling it,
said "I should have bought a 172!". So I bought a 172. Now I realize I
should have bought a 182, because I want more speed.

Insurance cost is a function of hull value. I got a quote of $650 from
AOPAIA last year for a $20K 150. I pay $850 for a 40K 172. Since you have
your IFR ticket, it will be quite a bit less.

Operational cost, calculated VERY roughly, is (gals per hr x fuel cost) +
(insurance / hrs per year) + (annual hangar cost / hrs per year) + (engine
reserve fee [~$15K / # hrs remaining on engine]) + (annual inspection cost /
hrs per year) + (a WAG value on maintenance reserve cost per hour [how much
you want to set aside for things you think *might* break, enhancements you
might want to add, etc.]).

I fly about 80 hrs per year. I probably pay more for the plane than rental
costs, but it's 100% mine, I can fly when *I* want, and know every square
inch of it. THAT is an intangible value!

Carl

"AliR" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).
>
> How much is the operational cost of a 152?
>
> AliR.
>
>

[aluckyguess]

I went with a Cherokee 180. I still think I made the right choice a year
later. Its a good plane. It will carry 4 good size people and travel @ 140
mph with a 9 gallon an hour fuel burn.

"AliR" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).
>
> How much is the operational cost of a 152?
>
> AliR.
>
>

[Newps]

AliR wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane?

Only if you live near sea level. Here at 3600 feet they are a joke.

[George Patterson]

AliR wrote:
>
> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).

My first aircraft was a 150. I thought it made a pretty good first plane.
Consider a couple things, though.

If you actually try to fly in IMC, it's a little slow and a bit short on fuel.
Finding a decent alternate when the weather's bad for several States around can
be difficult.

If you're one of these people who believe that real humans weigh at least 200
pounds, it's a single-seater.

> How much is the operational cost of a 152?

Insurance will probably be between $700 and $900. Flat-rate annuals will run you
around $500. Allow another $500 for unexpected maintenance. Cruising properly
leaned, they burn about 5.8 gph. The cost of tie-downs or hangars varies a lot;
check locally. I vaguely recall spending about $5,000 one year on my 150 and
flew about 100 hours. That was in the early '90s.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Matt Barrow]

"AliR" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane?

It depends on what you intend to use it for (of course). If it's just for
fun and building hours for one or two people it's probably okay.

> I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).

For that background it'll probably bee less than your car insurance if you
live in California or Arizona! :~)


> How much is the operational cost of a 152?

Sorry...someone else will have to fill that in.

[Matt Barrow]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> AliR wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> > $30K.
> >
> > Is that a good first plane?
>
> Only if you live near sea level. Here at 3600 feet they are a joke.

Come on up here (5800 feet) and say that! :~)


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Matt Barrow]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:0Sj9e.22012$nt3.3914@trndny04...
> The cost of tie-downs or hangars varies a lot;
> check locally. I vaguely recall spending about $5,000 one year on my 150
and
> flew about 100 hours. That was in the early '90s.

GULP!!! It's less $$$ for a T-hanger around here.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[John Godwin]

"AliR" > wrote in
:

> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will
> run for such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on
> Commercial ticket).

It's OK for purely building time (cross-country VFR, for example). I
have some actual IFR time in a 152 and "unsettling" best describes my
experience. I just felt there wasn't enough reserve power to help me
get out of a bad situation.

--

[J. Severyn]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Only if you live near sea level. Here at 3600 feet they are a joke.

Not quite. Yes, they are cramped...and the seats are not that comfortable.
But they are cheap to run (relatively). On the other hand, I commonly fly
my 152 across the Sierra at 12,500 or 13,500 feet. Of course I'm the only
occupant so it is around 200# below max gross. The engine is the standard
O235-L2C.

Yes I'd like more speed, power and comfort. But for building time on a
budget, a 152 is a good start. I bought mine 21 years ago, and still have
it.

J. Severyn
KLVK

[OtisWinslow]

My first airplane was a 1978 152. Bought it new in 78. Was a fun little
plane. Economical
to operate. Sold new for $16k. A Cherokee 140 would also be a good one to
consider.

"AliR" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).
>
> How much is the operational cost of a 152?
>
> AliR.
>
>

[Tony]

Years ago I had real problems using a 172 IFR in the northeast. If
there was a big messy front, the airplane didn't have the legs to get
to destination then to an alternate with enough fuel. It was OK for
training and very soft IFR. A 15X would be even more problematical.

Even with the M20J (Mooney 201) I replaced it with a reasonable
fraction of planned trips (maybe 10%) were cancelled because of
weather. Icing, embedded thunderstorms, stuff like that had a way of
keeping the airplane on the ground. Lack of range didn't often play a
role, though.

It depends on what you want it for. In my case, I had clients I wanted
to see on a reliable basis, so being able to say "be there at 10
tomorrow" had to be realistic.

[John Ousterhout]

AliR wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
> $30K.
>
> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).
>
> How much is the operational cost of a 152?

The cockpit is suitable for slim people, often uncomfortable for others.

If you and/or your passenger are heavier than the FAA Standard (170
pounds) you will likely be over gross weight if you fill the gas tanks.
If you weigh what I do your only possible passenger is a child,
fashion model or jockey.

- John (1.5 "FAA persons") Ousterhout -

[George Patterson]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> "George Patterson" > wrote in message
> news:0Sj9e.22012$nt3.3914@trndny04...
>
>>The cost of tie-downs or hangars varies a lot;
>>check locally. I vaguely recall spending about $5,000 one year on my 150
>
> and
>
>>flew about 100 hours. That was in the early '90s.
>
>
> GULP!!! It's less $$$ for a T-hanger around here.

I meant five grand for everything.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

John Ousterhout wrote:
>> I just saw an ad for an IFR 1978 152 with 5230 total hours, 370 SMOH for
>> $30K.
>>
>> Is that a good first plane? I am wondering how much insurance will run for
>> such an airplane (I am IFR with 230+ hours, working on Commercial ticket).
>
> If you and/or your passenger are heavier than the FAA Standard (170
> pounds) you will likely be over gross weight if you fill the gas tanks.
> If you weigh what I do your only possible passenger is a child,
> fashion model or jockey.


I have to agree with others: he's better off with a Cherokee 140 or (even
better) a Cherokee 180. I think of my wood working tools: the only day I
enjoyed cheap tools was the day I paid for them. I cursed every time I actually
tried to use them and found them inadequate for my needs. There have been too
many times in the past where I bought cheap only to buy again later what I
should have started with.

A Cherokee will carry two adults in comfort and more if necessary, as well as
being a more stable IFR platform.

If he can't afford better now, he should rent what he needs until he can.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN