Spaceship One Roll Problem

[Kyle Boatright]

Any rumblings from the desert on the cause of the roll problems during
yesterday's flight?

I know Melville said he might have stepped on something, and Rutan was
quoted as saying wind shear might cause a roll problem, but neither one
appeared to have much confidence in their answer.

An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a permanant crease in my
seat cushion.

KB

[Dave Hyde]

Kyle Boatright wrote...

> Any rumblings from the desert on the cause of the roll problems during
> yesterday's flight?

I saw somewhere a quote from Rutan attributing it to
dihedral effect (roll due to sideslip), a problem he
said they'd been chasing for a while. I know of nothing
substantive and public on it and can't re-find the quote
I'm thinking of.

> An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a
> permanant crease in my seat cushion.

Apparently there was more than a little concern in the
control room as well. There's probably a heck of a laundry
bill coming.

Dave 'Fetch me my brown pants!" Hyde

[QDurham]

>> An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a
>> permanant crease in my seat cushion.

Not top mention a squishy feeling and a awful smell.

Quent

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote:

> Any rumblings from the desert on the cause of the roll problems during
> yesterday's flight?
>
> I know Melville said he might have stepped on something, and Rutan was
> quoted as saying wind shear might cause a roll problem, but neither one
> appeared to have much confidence in their answer.
>
> An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a permanant crease in my
> seat cushion.
>
> KB
>
>

We often experienced it in some of the missiles we tested. We attributed
it to asymmetrical mass distributions, where the thrust line did not
coincide with the axis of symmetry, resulting in a thrust-induced roll.

[Rich]

From http://www.spaceflightnow.com/ss1/040929x1launch.html

"Rutan said SpaceShipOne is particularly susceptible to rolls and has
been from the beginning.

"The airplane, since its early testing, we've been living with a known
deficiency," he said. "It's difficult to fix once you have an airplane
flying. It's easy to fix on the second airplane and we have very good
fixes for excess dihedral effects on our next spaceship."

He said Melvill's ability to easily overcome the roll proved the
spacecraft is more robust and, by design, forgiving than any other
manned spacecraft."



Kyle Boatright wrote:
> Any rumblings from the desert on the cause of the roll problems during
> yesterday's flight?
>
> I know Melville said he might have stepped on something, and Rutan was
> quoted as saying wind shear might cause a roll problem, but neither one
> appeared to have much confidence in their answer.
>
> An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a permanant crease in my
> seat cushion.
>
> KB
>
>

[smjmitchell]

Missile shaped vehicles are particular susceptable to roll due to sideslip
problems. See almost any book on Aircraft Stability and Control for a
detailed explanation of the issues. I think this is a more likely
explanation than wind shear and some of the other gossip that is
circulating.



"Rich" > wrote in message
...
> From http://www.spaceflightnow.com/ss1/040929x1launch.html
>
> "Rutan said SpaceShipOne is particularly susceptible to rolls and has
> been from the beginning.
>
> "The airplane, since its early testing, we've been living with a known
> deficiency," he said. "It's difficult to fix once you have an airplane
> flying. It's easy to fix on the second airplane and we have very good
> fixes for excess dihedral effects on our next spaceship."
>
> He said Melvill's ability to easily overcome the roll proved the
> spacecraft is more robust and, by design, forgiving than any other
> manned spacecraft."
>
>
>
> Kyle Boatright wrote:
> > Any rumblings from the desert on the cause of the roll problems during
> > yesterday's flight?
> >
> > I know Melville said he might have stepped on something, and Rutan was
> > quoted as saying wind shear might cause a roll problem, but neither one
> > appeared to have much confidence in their answer.
> >
> > An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a permanant crease in
my
> > seat cushion.
> >
> > KB
> >
> >
>

[bryan chaisone]

I just saw 'Black Sky, The Race to Space' on the Discovery Channel.
Boy! Wish I was on the team. What an opportunity to do something
good and exciting at the same time! I full of emotions when the
landing gear collapsed and when they Melvill made that beautiful
landing after reentry. Rutan is good and he has surrounded himself
with good people, that's the formula.

That Melvill guy's got balls. From being a high school drop-out to
first civilian in space in a 'homebuilt'! Only in America. What a
Country!

They had a sign that said:

Space Ship One
Government Zero

That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
imprisoned or killed.

History in the making. I have confidence that Rutan has the
experience to address the roll problem.

I wish them all the best and I hope the rest of the tests and flights
continue safely and successfully.

Bryan "formerly known as 'The Monk'" Chaisone

Rich > wrote in message >...
> From http://www.spaceflightnow.com/ss1/040929x1launch.html
>
> "Rutan said SpaceShipOne is particularly susceptible to rolls and has
> been from the beginning.
>
> "The airplane, since its early testing, we've been living with a known
> deficiency," he said. "It's difficult to fix once you have an airplane
> flying. It's easy to fix on the second airplane and we have very good
> fixes for excess dihedral effects on our next spaceship."
>
> He said Melvill's ability to easily overcome the roll proved the
> spacecraft is more robust and, by design, forgiving than any other
> manned spacecraft."
>
>
>
> Kyle Boatright wrote:
> > Any rumblings from the desert on the cause of the roll problems during
> > yesterday's flight?
> >
> > I know Melville said he might have stepped on something, and Rutan was
> > quoted as saying wind shear might cause a roll problem, but neither one
> > appeared to have much confidence in their answer.
> >
> > An uncommanded roll like that would probably cause a permanant crease in my
> > seat cushion.
> >
> > KB
> >
> >

[Bob Chilcoat]

MSNBC had a line at the bottom of the screen when he was being interviewed
after last week's flight that said "Mike Velvill" (sic). Our media at work.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
> That Melvill guy's got balls. From being a high school drop-out to
> first civilian in space in a 'homebuilt'! Only in America. What a
> Country!

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 4 Oct 2004 05:18:44 -0700, (bryan chaisone) wrote:

>I just saw 'Black Sky, The Race to Space' on the Discovery Channel.
>Boy! Wish I was on the team. What an opportunity to do something
>good and exciting at the same time! I full of emotions when the
>landing gear collapsed and when they Melvill made that beautiful
>landing after reentry. Rutan is good and he has surrounded himself
>with good people, that's the formula.

Only caught part of it, but it was an outstanding show. Got a kick out of
Rutan showing his orbital and space station designs. See my "OrbitOne"
postings for the problems inherent in scaling up the design...but if anyone
can solve 'em, Burt can.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A14252179

>That Melvill guy's got balls. From being a high school drop-out to
>first civilian in space in a 'homebuilt'!

And an immigrant as well...

>They had a sign that said:
>
> Space Ship One
> Government Zero
>
>That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
>do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
>imprisoned or killed.

Didn't realize things had gotten that bad in Canada, Australia, New
Zealand, and Britain. :-)

>History in the making. I have confidence that Rutan has the
>experience to address the roll problem.

From the sounds of it, they know what the problem is, and will correct it
in the Generation 2 design.

Ron Wanttaja

[nafod40]

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
> MSNBC had a line at the bottom of the screen when he was being interviewed
> after last week's flight that said "Mike Velvill" (sic). Our media at work.

CNN right now has as headline "Another Flight Into Orbit"

Not.

[wmbjk]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:51:45 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>On 4 Oct 2004 05:18:44 -0700, (bryan chaisone) wrote:

>>They had a sign that said:
>>
>> Space Ship One
>> Government Zero
>>
>>That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
>>do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
>>imprisoned or killed.

>Didn't realize things had gotten that bad in Canada, Australia, New
>Zealand, and Britain. :-)

To quote Fearless Leader... "you forgot Poland". :-)

Wayne

[bryan chaisone]

Hey Ron! sorry about that! You were the first homebuilt to go into space.

My bad...

Bryan "formerly Monk" Chaisone

Ron Wanttaja > wrote in message >...
> On 4 Oct 2004 05:18:44 -0700, (bryan chaisone) wrote:
>
> >I just saw 'Black Sky, The Race to Space' on the Discovery Channel.
> >Boy! Wish I was on the team. What an opportunity to do something
> >good and exciting at the same time! I full of emotions when the
> >landing gear collapsed and when they Melvill made that beautiful
> >landing after reentry. Rutan is good and he has surrounded himself
> >with good people, that's the formula.
>
> Only caught part of it, but it was an outstanding show. Got a kick out of
> Rutan showing his orbital and space station designs. See my "OrbitOne"
> postings for the problems inherent in scaling up the design...but if anyone
> can solve 'em, Burt can.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?A14252179
>
> >That Melvill guy's got balls. From being a high school drop-out to
> >first civilian in space in a 'homebuilt'!
>
> And an immigrant as well...
>
> >They had a sign that said:
> >
> > Space Ship One
> > Government Zero
> >
> >That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
> >do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
> >imprisoned or killed.
>
> Didn't realize things had gotten that bad in Canada, Australia, New
> Zealand, and Britain. :-)
>

Oh yeah, forgot about THEM... :-)

> >History in the making. I have confidence that Rutan has the
> >experience to address the roll problem.
>
> From the sounds of it, they know what the problem is, and will correct it
> in the Generation 2 design.
>
> Ron Wanttaja

[bryan chaisone]

Yeah Bob, you gotta love them.

Bryan

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message >...
> MSNBC had a line at the bottom of the screen when he was being interviewed
> after last week's flight that said "Mike Velvill" (sic). Our media at work.

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 4 Oct 2004 14:31:00 -0700, (bryan chaisone) wrote:

>"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message >...
>> MSNBC had a line at the bottom of the screen when he was being interviewed
>> after last week's flight that said "Mike Velvill" (sic). Our media at work.
>
>Yeah Bob, you gotta love them.

Noticed that the CNN on-screen label for Dick Rutan identified him as the
designer of SpaceShipOne....

Ron Wanttaja

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:55:40 GMT, wmbjk >
wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:51:45 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
>wrote:
>
>>Didn't realize things had gotten that bad in Canada, Australia, New
>>Zealand, and Britain. :-)
>
>To quote Fearless Leader... "you forgot Poland". :-)

Boreese, oubay losya e bellkou!

Ron "All right, it's Russian" Wanttaja

... and my spellchecker hates it! :-)

[Bob Fry]

(bryan chaisone) writes:

> They had a sign that said:
>
> Space Ship One
> Government Zero
>
> That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
> do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
> imprisoned or killed.

Only in America would someone as clever as Rutan be so ignorant about
the history of government in this country and its role in creating a
place for entrepeneurs to thrive.

[Morgans]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote

>
> Noticed that the CNN on-screen label for Dick Rutan identified him as the
> designer of SpaceShipOne....
>
> Ron Wanttaja

The whole CNN operation is clueless.

A couple years ago, my family was in Atlanta, and wanted to tour CNN studios
with our foreign exchange student. It was soon before my second back
surgery.

We were there early, and had to wait about an hour before the tours started.
I don't do well standing for long periods of time, and all of the chairs
were roped off in the "lobby" area, while they were setting up for a
televised meeting in said lobby/courtyard area. I sat down on the floor,
against the wall, in the line area, and was told I could not do that; that I
had to stand. No chair was offered, when I told them of my situation.

I should have sued, or threatened, under handicap provisions. I never watch
that news rag, anymore.
--
Jim in NC


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[Dave Hyde]

Bob Chilcoat wrotee...

> MSNBC had a line at the bottom of the screen when he was being interviewed
> after last week's flight that said "Mike Velvill" (sic). Our media at
work.

It could've been a lot worse. Has been.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/innis.htm

Think about the fact-checking that led to
this when you pick your news source.

Dave 'dumbfounded' Hyde

[Matt Whiting]

Bob Fry wrote:

> (bryan chaisone) writes:
>
>
>>They had a sign that said:
>>
>> Space Ship One
>> Government Zero
>>
>>That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
>>do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
>>imprisoned or killed.
>
>
> Only in America would someone as clever as Rutan be so ignorant about
> the history of government in this country and its role in creating a
> place for entrepeneurs to thrive.

Now we're equating a clever and funny sign with ignorance. Someone is
demonstrating ignorance here, but it isn't Rutan.


Matt

[bryan chaisone]

Hi Bob,

Neither Rutan nor his team made that sign. Someone in the crowd
handed Melvill the sign as he passed by on the SS1 and he held it up
to the crowd. Anyways, my comment was to celebrate the freedom that
we have here in the US, not to degrade our government.

Bryan

Bob Fry > wrote in message >...
> (bryan chaisone) writes:
>
> > They had a sign that said:
> >
> > Space Ship One
> > Government Zero
> >
> > That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
> > do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
> > imprisoned or killed.
>
> Only in America would someone as clever as Rutan be so ignorant about
> the history of government in this country and its role in creating a
> place for entrepeneurs to thrive.

[Andy McKenzie]

"bryan chaisone" > wrote in message
om...
> They had a sign that said:
>
> Space Ship One
> Government Zero
>
> That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
> do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
> imprisoned or killed.
>
With my flame proof overalls on - you REALLY need to get out more - in the
vast majority of the world you can hold up signs calling your goverment
whatever you want - that's not to say that there aren't countries with zero
tolerance of dissent, and a fair few places, US and UK among them, where the
wrong sign at the wrong time can get you a sore head from a police
truncheon.

Andy

[bryan chaisone]

"Andy McKenzie" > wrote in message >...
> "bryan chaisone" > wrote in message
> om...
> > They had a sign that said:
> >
> > Space Ship One
> > Government Zero
> >
> > That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
> > do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
> > imprisoned or killed.
> >
> With my flame proof overalls on - you REALLY need to get out more - in the
> vast majority of the world you can hold up signs calling your goverment
> whatever you want - that's not to say that there aren't countries with zero
> tolerance of dissent, and a fair few places, US and UK among them, where the
> wrong sign at the wrong time can get you a sore head from a police
> truncheon.
>
> Andy

OK Andy... Maybe not only in America. I exagerated a little. Can you
blame me? I was full of emotions. I was watching the thing on
Discovery for the whole hour and had to go (number one), but I held it
until it was finished. Then later on, it was shown again and I saw it
again in its entirety without getting up.

Bryan

[bryan chaisone]

Ron Wanttaja > wrote in message >...

> Only caught part of it, but it was an outstanding show. Got a kick out of
> Rutan showing his orbital and space station designs. See my "OrbitOne"
> postings for the problems inherent in scaling up the design...but if anyone
> can solve 'em, Burt can.
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Ruta was all choked up and so was I.

Bryan

[Andy McKenzie]

"bryan chaisone" > wrote in message
om...
> "Andy McKenzie" > wrote in message
>...
> > "bryan chaisone" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > They had a sign that said:
> > >
> > > Space Ship One
> > > Government Zero
> > >
> > > That is a great statement! Only in America do you get the freedom to
> > > do something like this and to publicly say such a statement and not be
> > > imprisoned or killed.
> > >
> > With my flame proof overalls on - you REALLY need to get out more - in
the
> > vast majority of the world you can hold up signs calling your goverment
> > whatever you want - that's not to say that there aren't countries with
zero
> > tolerance of dissent, and a fair few places, US and UK among them, where
the
> > wrong sign at the wrong time can get you a sore head from a police
> > truncheon.
> >
> > Andy
>
> OK Andy... Maybe not only in America. I exagerated a little. Can you
> blame me? I was full of emotions. I was watching the thing on
> Discovery for the whole hour and had to go (number one), but I held it
> until it was finished. Then later on, it was shown again and I saw it
> again in its entirety without getting up.
>
> Bryan

Fair enuf! Pride is good!

Andy

[Bruce Bockius]

> OK Andy... Maybe not only in America. I exagerated a little. Can you
> blame me? I was full of emotions. I was watching the thing on
> Discovery for the whole hour and had to go (number one), but I held it
> until it was finished. Then later on, it was shown again and I saw it
> again in its entirety without getting up.
>
> Bryan

So is there someplace other than America were a privately designed and
built civilian aicraft has blasted into space and won the X-Prize?

[Andy McKenzie]

"Bruce Bockius" > wrote in message
om...
> > OK Andy... Maybe not only in America. I exagerated a little. Can you
> > blame me? I was full of emotions. I was watching the thing on
> > Discovery for the whole hour and had to go (number one), but I held it
> > until it was finished. Then later on, it was shown again and I saw it
> > again in its entirety without getting up.
> >
> > Bryan
>
> So is there someplace other than America were a privately designed and
> built civilian aicraft has blasted into space and won the X-Prize?

I wasn't commenting on the wonderful acheivement of a succesful private trip
to space, but rather on the statement that only in the US could you hold up
a sign that says 'my govt isn't very good' without being imprisoned!

Andy