Glider radios from Europe etc

[[email protected]]

My fsg71m , the Led panel has finally died so I cannot see the freq.
None of this model is being advertised for sale at the moment so
I can do a straight plug in replacement.
Others have said the AR4201 is a good unit but I see the specs indicate
13-14 volts power supply , how does it handle 12 volt batteries or will I
have to add an extra 2 volt capacity to keep its performance.
I have seen ATR500 and ATR600 with the same power requirements.
We are required to upgrade our transponders this year to ADSB out
so budget is a consideration.
If anyone has a radio with old 25 freq spacing please send me an
email with Pic, price etc.
gfoneill AT xtra dot co dot nz

[Dave Springford]

Check the classifieds here:

http://glidersource.com/cgi-bin/post.cgi?action=display&type=Instruments

There are several radios available from Europe. Ross Drake has a bunch of FSG 2T radios listed there. I have purchased a few radios from Ross over the past few years and he has been easy to work with and provided good quality used radios.

The bonus to buying an FSG2T is that it uses the same pinout as the FSG71M and you can just plug your current wire harness into the back of the radio, mount it in the panel and it will work.

Pretty much all of the radios have a 13-14V specified range, but they work fine with our 12 V systems. The Becker doesn't give low voltage warnings until it gets below 10.5 volts IIRC.

[krasw]

Way too many Becker 4201s have serious problems when it ages so I would advice against installing a used one.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

My experience with Becker 4201’s is different. I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen. My $0.02.

[[email protected]]

I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.

Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.

[[email protected]]

I replaced my FSG71M with an FSG2T that I got from Ross Drake. It was a simple plug and play drop in and I love the radio. I think Dittel's are the best, and the FSG2T is great. The biggest improvement over the 71 was the addition of variable squelch.

Nice big display and easy interface. Get a 2T and you won't regret it.

-Kevin
2B

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

There are some nice features of the FSG2T over the FSG71M. The dedicated single knob squelch control that Kevin 2B mentions comes to mind.

One feature of the FSG71M that I wish was in other transceivers - the dedicated single knob frequency memory selector. During soaring travels I set up memories for the host airport unicom, AWOS, 123.3 and 123.5, then maybe other area airport's unicoms. Makes is very fast to move between frequencies.

[Dave Springford]

FSG 2T also has a nice memory function. 99 memory channels IIRC .

Easy access, push the F/CH button then spin the big knob until you reach your desired pre-programmed frequency.

The biggest problem with the 2T is that big knob gets flaky, probably due to oxidation on the contacts, and hops over channels, but I have found spinning it both directions a few times seems to clean it up and make it more responsive.

[krasw]

On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3, wrote:
> I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.
> Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.

We have a big pile of them, all garbage.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 7:27:38 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3, wrote:
> > I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.
> > Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.
>
> We have a big pile of them, all garbage.

Surely not "all garbage"? Maybe some units had problems? The 4201 in my glider has been soldiering on for many years. Last year I bought a spare one from Europe, it tested OK in a brief test. But most likely I will never need it.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 10:52:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 7:27:38 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3, wrote:
> > > I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.
> > > Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.
> >
> > We have a big pile of them, all garbage.
>
> Surely not "all garbage"? Maybe some units had problems? The 4201 in my glider has been soldiering on for many years. Last year I bought a spare one from Europe, it tested OK in a brief test. But most likely I will never need it.

I bought a 4201 a couple of years ago from a Dutch club, and after installation, it works great. The only snag was getting the slide-on connector for the db connector, which was hard to find then in North America.

[Dan Marotta]

I'll bet a lot of clubs in the US would be happy to pay the shipping
costs for all that "garbage"...

On 9/2/2020 5:27 AM, krasw wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3, wrote:
>> I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.
>> Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.
> We have a big pile of them, all garbage.

--
Dan, 5J

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Dan (Daly) - I have bought those Becker latching DB connectors from Cumulus-Soaring.
I don't think that they are shown in the online catalog. Drop Paul an email.

[krasw]

On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 19:20:53 UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I'll bet a lot of clubs in the US would be happy to pay the shipping
> costs for all that "garbage"...
> On 9/2/2020 5:27 AM, krasw wrote:
> > On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3, wrote:
> >> I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.
> >> Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.
> > We have a big pile of them, all garbage.
> --
> Dan, 5J


What's stopping them, if they need faulty 4201s? I can send the pile right away.

The problem with 4201 is faulty component that lowers the voltage of the radio by several volts and prevents any tranceiving (and soon receiving). This is known fault and there is no easy fix for it, or at least cheaper fix than replacing faulty unit with hopefully working one. Avionics mechanic will not even shake your hand for a price of used 4201. There are cases where exchanged 4201s developed the exact same problem. If someone is happy buying and installing old 4201s, then go for it. But the fact is that they are not as reliable as they should be.

Even new radios can be had for 1000 euros, and in this hobby that's pretty much nothing. Unless you run a club that has a fleet resembling something out of equator Africa.

[Jim White[_3_]]

At 08:30 03 September 2020, krasw wrote:
>On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 19:20:53 UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I'll bet a lot of clubs in the US would be happy to pay the shipping=20
>> costs for all that "garbage"...
>> On 9/2/2020 5:27 AM, krasw wrote:=20
>> > On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3,
wrote:=
>=20
>> >> I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.=20
>> >> Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.=20
>> > We have a big pile of them, all garbage.
>> --=20
>> Dan, 5J
>
>
>What's stopping them, if they need faulty 4201s? I can send the pile
right
>=
>away.
>
>The problem with 4201 is faulty component that lowers the voltage of the
>ra=
>dio by several volts and prevents any tranceiving (and soon receiving).
>Thi=
>s is known fault and there is no easy fix for it, or at least cheaper fix
>t=
>han replacing faulty unit with hopefully working one. Avionics mechanic
>wil=
>l not even shake your hand for a price of used 4201. There are cases
where
>=
>exchanged 4201s developed the exact same problem. If someone is happy
>buyin=
>g and installing old 4201s, then go for it. But the fact is that they are
>n=
>ot as reliable as they should be.
>
>Even new radios can be had for 1000 euros, and in this hobby that's
pretty
>=
>much nothing. Unless you run a club that has a fleet resembling something
>o=
>ut of equator Africa.
>
I installed a 4201 in my 27 in 2003 and replaced it in 2018. 15 years
without a fault in the electronics. I did however freeze the LCD one winter
which needed to be replaced by the factory.
Sold it to USA for a few dollars. Haven't heard that it failed.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 5:30:06 AM UTC-4, Jim White wrote:
> At 08:30 03 September 2020, krasw wrote:
> >On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 at 19:20:53 UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
> >> I'll bet a lot of clubs in the US would be happy to pay the shipping=20
> >> costs for all that "garbage"...
> >> On 9/2/2020 5:27 AM, krasw wrote:=20
> >> > On Sunday, 30 August 2020 at 16:29:32 UTC+3,
> wrote:=
> >=20
> >> >> I have installed many used units with no long term issues seen.=20
> >> >> Me too. No problems with the six I have installed.=20
> >> > We have a big pile of them, all garbage.
> >> --=20
> >> Dan, 5J
> >
> >
> >What's stopping them, if they need faulty 4201s? I can send the pile
> right
> >=
> >away.
> >
> >The problem with 4201 is faulty component that lowers the voltage of the
> >ra=
> >dio by several volts and prevents any tranceiving (and soon receiving).
> >Thi=
> >s is known fault and there is no easy fix for it, or at least cheaper fix
> >t=
> >han replacing faulty unit with hopefully working one. Avionics mechanic
> >wil=
> >l not even shake your hand for a price of used 4201. There are cases
> where
> >=
> >exchanged 4201s developed the exact same problem. If someone is happy
> >buyin=
> >g and installing old 4201s, then go for it. But the fact is that they are
> >n=
> >ot as reliable as they should be.
> >
> >Even new radios can be had for 1000 euros, and in this hobby that's
> pretty
> >=
> >much nothing. Unless you run a club that has a fleet resembling something
> >o=
> >ut of equator Africa.
> >
> I installed a 4201 in my 27 in 2003 and replaced it in 2018. 15 years
> without a fault in the electronics. I did however freeze the LCD one winter
> which needed to be replaced by the factory.
> Sold it to USA for a few dollars. Haven't heard that it failed.

How cold does it need to get to damage the LCD? My glider is stored in an unheated hangar in the winter here in Vermont, sometimes goes down to -20C or worse, but so far no damage to the 4201 LCD.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I've never heard of an LCD screen freezing. I have seen displays get "sluggish" in the cold and might seem to be damaged - but a little warmth and its back to normal.

Possibly the glass top layer of an LCD screen could contract enough to crack if it got really, really, cold. I'd love to do the experiment (with someone else's radio) but doubt that I could replicate that kind of environment at home. ;-)

- John OHM Ω

[Tim Newport-Peace[_6_]]

At 15:53 04 September 2020,
John_DeRosa_OHM_Ω_http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>I've never heard of an LCD screen freezing. I have seen displays get
>"slug=
>gish" in the cold and might seem to be damaged - but a little warmth and
>it=
>s back to normal.
>
>Possibly the glass top layer of an LCD screen could contract enough to
>crac=
>k if it got really, really, cold. I'd love to do the experiment (with
>some=
>one else's radio) but doubt that I could replicate that kind of
>environment=
> at home. ;-)
>
>- John OHM =E2=84=A6
>
I have known condensation to cause problems. If it then freezes...

[Tim Newport-Peace[_6_]]

At 15:53 04 September 2020,
John_DeRosa_OHM_Ω_http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>I've never heard of an LCD screen freezing. I have seen displays get
>"slug=
>gish" in the cold and might seem to be damaged - but a little warmth and
>it=
>s back to normal.
>
>Possibly the glass top layer of an LCD screen could contract enough to
>crac=
>k if it got really, really, cold. I'd love to do the experiment (with
>some=
>one else's radio) but doubt that I could replicate that kind of
>environment=
> at home. ;-)
>
>- John OHM =E2=84=A6
>
I have known condensation to cause problems. If it then freezes...

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Friday, September 4, 2020 at 11:53:55 AM UTC-4, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> I've never heard of an LCD screen freezing. I have seen displays get "sluggish" in the cold and might seem to be damaged - but a little warmth and its back to normal.
>
> Possibly the glass top layer of an LCD screen could contract enough to crack if it got really, really, cold. I'd love to do the experiment (with someone else's radio) but doubt that I could replicate that kind of environment at home. ;-)
>
> - John OHM Ω
I have seen LCD freezing in northern NJ, not normal, but can happen.
More likely is display is really cold (north NJ winter), and a "minor tap" on the display glass cracks the display...(sorta guess of parent with rather young kid, laptop was sitting in car overnight in sub freezing temps)......depends on device, all are certified to a range, maybe you get one just outside of the range.