Any Hornet / Hornet C owners.

[David Wrinkle]

I have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out!

Thanks
D

[Scott Williams[_2_]]

On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 12:28:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> I have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out!
>
> Thanks
> D
I've got a Mosquito, similar, but different.
Scott

[David Wrinkle]

On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 2:26:39 PM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 12:28:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > I have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out!
> >
> > Thanks
> > D
> I've got a Mosquito, similar, but different.
> Scott

Thx Scott, I really need the size of the wing locking pin for a Hornet. Diameter / Length... along with a pic of what the wing tool looks like. There isn't a way to be sure if the sizes are the same with the Libelle, and or Mosquito.

D

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 7:04:11 AM UTC+12, wrote:
> On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 2:26:39 PM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> > On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 12:28:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > I have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out!
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > D
> > I've got a Mosquito, similar, but different.
> > Scott
> Thx Scott, I really need the size of the wing locking pin for a Hornet. Diameter / Length... along with a pic of what the wing tool looks like. There isn't a way to be sure if the sizes are the same with the Libelle, and or Mosquito.
>
> D
I have a Hornet. The wing tool is the same as a Libelle. Sadly mine is missing and I have to use an 8 inch Crescent instead. Works OK if you're careful. Smaller Crescents aren't long enough and longer Crescents are too thick to engage with the little pins on the spar. When using the wing tool, don't use too much force, you can tear off the little pins. My glider had been owned by a club, and the little pins had been torn off by enthusiastic assemblers.

The wing is the same profile and platform as the libelle. The brakes and hookups are different. The little nubs on the spar for the wing tool are the same. The spar pin is the same.

--
Phil Plane

[David Wrinkle]

Phil,

Is there any chance when you are out flying the next time you could measure the Wing Locking Pin diameter & Length? If not, I think we have a Libelle owner in the club I get ahold of. Also,
Any regrets about owning a Hornet? From what I can find out it appears to be a nice ship to fly.

D

On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 5:30:55 PM UTC-4, philp...wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 7:04:11 AM UTC+12, wrin...wrote:
> > On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 2:26:39 PM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> > > On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 12:28:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > > I have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > D
> > > I've got a Mosquito, similar, but different.
> > > Scott
> > Thx Scott, I really need the size of the wing locking pin for a Hornet. Diameter / Length... along with a pic of what the wing tool looks like. There isn't a way to be sure if the sizes are the same with the Libelle, and or Mosquito.
> >
> > D
> I have a Hornet. The wing tool is the same as a Libelle. Sadly mine is missing and I have to use an 8 inch Crescent instead. Works OK if you're careful. Smaller Crescents aren't long enough and longer Crescents are too thick to engage with the little pins on the spar. When using the wing tool, don't use too much force, you can tear off the little pins. My glider had been owned by a club, and the little pins had been torn off by enthusiastic assemblers.
>
> The wing is the same profile and platform as the libelle. The brakes and hookups are different. The little nubs on the spar for the wing tool are the same. The spar pin is the same.
>
> --
> Phil Plane

[SoaringXCellence]

Phil,

The Hornet and the Club Libelle have the same wing (and horizontal Stab). The airfoil for the Standard Libelle, the Hornet and the Club Libelle are the same.

I would check with Streifeneder as they still have many parts for the glider: http://www.streifly.de/unternehmen-e.htm

Mike B.

[David Wrinkle]

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 12:56:23 AM UTC-4, SoaringXCellence wrote:
> Phil,
>
> The Hornet and the Club Libelle have the same wing (and horizontal Stab). The airfoil for the Standard Libelle, the Hornet and the Club Libelle are the same.
>
> I would check with Streifeneder as they still have many parts for the glider: http://www.streifly.de/unternehmen-e.htm
>
> Mike B.

Thx Mike B. Sent them a note last week and hopefully, I'll get a reply soon. :)

[Dan Marotta]

That's interesting.Â* Given that the Mosquito and Hornet look exactly
alike from any distance, I always assumed the Hornet's wing was the same
as the Mosquito's except for not having flaps.

Was the Hornet produced before the Mosquito, after, or at the same time?

On 8/31/2020 10:56 PM, SoaringXCellence wrote:
> Phil,
>
> The Hornet and the Club Libelle have the same wing (and horizontal Stab). The airfoil for the Standard Libelle, the Hornet and the Club Libelle are the same.
>
> I would check with Streifeneder as they still have many parts for the glider: http://www.streifly.de/unternehmen-e.htm
>
> Mike B.

--
Dan, 5J

[WB]

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:09:18 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> That's interesting. Given that the Mosquito and Hornet look exactly
> alike from any distance, I always assumed the Hornet's wing was the same
> as the Mosquito's except for not having flaps.


Flapped glider wings use much different airfoils from non-flapped glider wings. A flapped wing with the flaps fixed would have terrible overall performance. No one does that.

The Hornet was developed by taking the wing and tail of the club Libelle and designing an entirely new forward fuselage for it. Oh, and the Hornet was probably the first with the automatic control hookups that AS and SH use to this day. The Mosquito followed and used the same fuselage design with an entirely new flapped wing. The 304 followed the Mosquito and was a new wing with different airfoils on the Mosquito fuselage.

If Hanle had lived, we'd all be flying Glasflugel today!

[Daniel Sazhin[_2_]]

Flapped glider wings use much different airfoils from non-flapped glider wings. A flapped wing with the flaps fixed would have terrible overall performance. No one does that.


.... LS8? :)

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 3:04:11 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 2:26:39 PM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> > On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 12:28:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > I have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out!
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > D
> > I've got a Mosquito, similar, but different.
> > Scott
> Thx Scott, I really need the size of the wing locking pin for a Hornet. Diameter / Length... along with a pic of what the wing tool looks like. There isn't a way to be sure if the sizes are the same with the Libelle, and or Mosquito.
>
> D
I happen to jointly own a Hornet C. We have a spare main pin and pin tool. Email me for details.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Tue, 01 Sep 2020 14:18:59 -0700, WB wrote:

> Flapped glider wings use much different airfoils from non-flapped glider
> wings. A flapped wing with the flaps fixed would have terrible overall
> performance. No one does that.
>
AFAK the 201 Std Libelle, 205 Club Libelle and 206 Hornet all use the
same wing section, with the Hornet using the same wings and tail as the
205 Club. Both 205 and 206 have the same powerful trailing edge air
brakes.

The 206 can't have flaps by definition: its a Std Class glider.

At last count there were four 201s (including mine) and a 205 based at my
club's airfield.

Those who have flown both the 205 and a 201 reckon there's not a lot of
difference in performance, with the main differences being the 205's T-
tail and much roomier cockpit. It has a fixed wheel too, but that is well
buried in the fuselage.

And, no I've never seen either a 301 Open Libelle or a 206 Hornet.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Marotta]

True dat!Â* My first glider was a Mosquito and, 30-odd years later when I
was between gliders, I had a borrowed Mosquito to fill the gap.Â* Love
the handling and the trailing edge dive brakes!

On 9/1/2020 3:18 PM, WB wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:09:18 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> That's interesting. Given that the Mosquito and Hornet look exactly
>> alike from any distance, I always assumed the Hornet's wing was the same
>> as the Mosquito's except for not having flaps.
>
> Flapped glider wings use much different airfoils from non-flapped glider wings. A flapped wing with the flaps fixed would have terrible overall performance. No one does that.
>
> The Hornet was developed by taking the wing and tail of the club Libelle and designing an entirely new forward fuselage for it. Oh, and the Hornet was probably the first with the automatic control hookups that AS and SH use to this day. The Mosquito followed and used the same fuselage design with an entirely new flapped wing. The 304 followed the Mosquito and was a new wing with different airfoils on the Mosquito fuselage.
>
> If Hanle had lived, we'd all be flying Glasflugel today!
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[WB]

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 4:45:19 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Sep 2020 14:18:59 -0700, WB wrote:

> And, no I've never seen either a 301 Open Libelle or a 206 Hornet.
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org

There weren't many 301's to start with and most have migrated to the west side of the pond.

[Christoph Barniske]

There's a test available at https://www.segelflug.de/tests/HORNET/Testbericht_Hornet.pdf. It's in German, but you can easily translate it with any online translator. I think this document nicely points out strengths and weaknesses of the Hornet. The glide performance is good for its age. Flight characteristics are okay but not as nice as other ships like LS1-f or ASW19. Aileron effectivity is a bit low when circling in thermals.

The Hornet has the trailing edge brakes shortened from the Club-Libelle, which also has no water tanks and a lighter wing structure.

[Herbert kilian]

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 4:19:02 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:09:18 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > That's interesting. Given that the Mosquito and Hornet look exactly
> > alike from any distance, I always assumed the Hornet's wing was the same
> > as the Mosquito's except for not having flaps.
> Flapped glider wings use much different airfoils from non-flapped glider wings. A flapped wing with the flaps fixed would have terrible overall performance. No one does that.
>
> The Hornet was developed by taking the wing and tail of the club Libelle and designing an entirely new forward fuselage for it. Oh, and the Hornet was probably the first with the automatic control hookups that AS and SH use to this day. The Mosquito followed and used the same fuselage design with an entirely new flapped wing. The 304 followed the Mosquito and was a new wing with different airfoils on the Mosquito fuselage.
>
> If Hanle had lived, we'd all be flying Glasflugel today!
WB, I flew an LS8-18 for 16 years with fantastic results. I had the LS6 flapped profile without the flaps. The only difference to the LS6 was a slightly changed angle of incidence for the wing. Your above post is nonsense.

Herb

[WB]

On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 8:45:45 PM UTC-5, Herbert Kilian wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 4:19:02 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:09:18 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > That's interesting. Given that the Mosquito and Hornet look exactly
> > > alike from any distance, I always assumed the Hornet's wing was the same
> > > as the Mosquito's except for not having flaps.
> > Flapped glider wings use much different airfoils from non-flapped glider wings. A flapped wing with the flaps fixed would have terrible overall performance. No one does that.
> >
> > The Hornet was developed by taking the wing and tail of the club Libelle and designing an entirely new forward fuselage for it. Oh, and the Hornet was probably the first with the automatic control hookups that AS and SH use to this day. The Mosquito followed and used the same fuselage design with an entirely new flapped wing. The 304 followed the Mosquito and was a new wing with different airfoils on the Mosquito fuselage.
> >
> > If Hanle had lived, we'd all be flying Glasflugel today!
> WB, I flew an LS8-18 for 16 years with fantastic results. I had the LS6 flapped profile without the flaps. The only difference to the LS6 was a slightly changed angle of incidence for the wing. Your above post is nonsense.
>
> Herb

Hi Herb,

Yes, it was nonsense, based on an old, moldering understanding. You were a bit late to the party, though. Daniel set me straight a few days ago. Still, we are talking about Marker Class gliders, so not important ;-).

All the best,

Wally