The Blue Book, American Soaring Handbook

[S Aero]

Is this still a good reference today?
..... or is it outdated with much better information in the multitudes of books printed now?

[Tim Taylor]

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 6:55:32 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Is this still a good reference today?
> .... or is it outdated with much better information in the multitudes of books printed now?


It is still OK, others are better written by glider instructors (Wander Knauff, etc.) :

The handbook is free on-line:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 7:25:08 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
> On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 6:55:32 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> > Is this still a good reference today?
> > .... or is it outdated with much better information in the multitudes of books printed now?
>
>
> It is still OK, others are better written by glider instructors (Wander Knauff, etc.) :
>
> The handbook is free on-line:
>
> https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/

That "handbook" has so many errors that asking your students to find the errors may be the best use of it. My favorite example (from chapter 5):

"The stall speed of a glider increases with the square root of the increase in weight. ... For example, a 540-pound glider has a stalling speed of 40 knots. The pilot adds 300 pounds of water ballast making the new weight 840 pounds. The new stalling speed is approximately 57 knots (square root of 300 + 40 = 57)."

- As some famous physicist said, it's "not even wrong".

Tom Knauff says his team made 12,000 changes in turning that handbook into his version.

[S Aero]

Very interesting! Thanks for the feedback.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

The American Soaring Handbook, available long ago from the SSA, is not the same as the FAA Publication, "The Glider Flying Handbook", linked above. If you want to see how things use to be, I would encourage getting a copy of The American Soaring Handbook. If you are interested in good, glider flying and training books, get something current.

It is always amazing to me how things are done now and thought of as "new, and innovative", and you look back and, nah, that was done first in the 1930s. But we have learned a bit since then, and can do it better now than we did back then.

Steve Leonard

[[email protected]]

>"The stall speed of a glider increases with the square root of the increase >in weight. ... For example, a 540-pound glider has a stalling speed of 40 >knots. The pilot adds 300 pounds of water ballast making the new weight 840 >pounds. The new stalling speed is approximately 57 knots (square root of 300 >+ 40 = 57)."
>- As some famous physicist said, it's "not even wrong".

Isn't not disclosing the right equation just as useless as the wrong equation?
https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-the-stall-speed-of-an-aircraft

[S Aero]

On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 11:30:05 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> >"The stall speed of a glider increases with the square root of the increase >in weight. ... For example, a 540-pound glider has a stalling speed of 40 >knots. The pilot adds 300 pounds of water ballast making the new weight 840 >pounds. The new stalling speed is approximately 57 knots (square root of 300 >+ 40 = 57)."
> >- As some famous physicist said, it's "not even wrong".
> Isn't not disclosing the right equation just as useless as the wrong equation?
> https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-calculate-the-stall-speed-of-an-aircraft


Thanks for the replies and thoughts. My library is current and diverse. I don't have a copy of the blue book so I was wondering if it was still relevant. I will have a copy soon and read it for historical perspective. Thanks again.

[[email protected]]

I've got a half dozen books specifically on this subject. Some are dated but I think still relevant. Others are 'current' but as was pointed out, inaccurate or have other issues.

If you provide the 'right' incorrect answer to a test question on a written exam do you still get credit if all the other answers are wrong? How about a checkride? If a question comes up and you give the 'correct' (wrong) answer exactly as it appears in the FAA's official publication do you flunk the ride even though you're using their 'official' publication?

I'm rather fond of Russell Holtz books at this point but I admit to using several others. I've always been promiscuous when it comes to reading technical things. So far he includes a lot of stuff that will probably be much more helpful to me over the long haul BUT.....they aren't cheap books.

The FAA handbook was recently revised. Who did the copy editing? I see a list of credits in there. Did any of those folks actually read it? If they did read it did they tell them the necessary changes? How do you screw up a grayscale print AND refer to colors in the text below? (No, Wes, I'm not making this up).

[Frank Whiteley]

On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 10:13:00 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I've got a half dozen books specifically on this subject. Some are dated but I think still relevant. Others are 'current' but as was pointed out, inaccurate or have other issues.
>
> If you provide the 'right' incorrect answer to a test question on a written exam do you still get credit if all the other answers are wrong? How about a checkride? If a question comes up and you give the 'correct' (wrong) answer exactly as it appears in the FAA's official publication do you flunk the ride even though you're using their 'official' publication?
>
> I'm rather fond of Russell Holtz books at this point but I admit to using several others. I've always been promiscuous when it comes to reading technical things. So far he includes a lot of stuff that will probably be much more helpful to me over the long haul BUT.....they aren't cheap books.
>
> The FAA handbook was recently revised. Who did the copy editing? I see a list of credits in there. Did any of those folks actually read it? If they did read it did they tell them the necessary changes? How do you screw up a grayscale print AND refer to colors in the text below? (No, Wes, I'm not making this up).

The FAA web site lists the Glider Flying Handbook as 2013. There is an errata sheet from 2015 available. This is despite the 2020 date on the Amazon copies. When I first say the Amazon copies with the 2020 date, I reached out to the SSF to see if this was a new revision. It is not. However, if someone has a copy of the acknowledgements page from one of these "2020" copies, would be curious to see if it still says SSA.COM for Soaring Society of America.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 2:09:07 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 10:13:00 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> > I've got a half dozen books specifically on this subject. Some are dated but I think still relevant. Others are 'current' but as was pointed out, inaccurate or have other issues.
> >
> > If you provide the 'right' incorrect answer to a test question on a written exam do you still get credit if all the other answers are wrong? How about a checkride? If a question comes up and you give the 'correct' (wrong) answer exactly as it appears in the FAA's official publication do you flunk the ride even though you're using their 'official' publication?
> >
> > I'm rather fond of Russell Holtz books at this point but I admit to using several others. I've always been promiscuous when it comes to reading technical things. So far he includes a lot of stuff that will probably be much more helpful to me over the long haul BUT.....they aren't cheap books.
> >
> > The FAA handbook was recently revised. Who did the copy editing? I see a list of credits in there. Did any of those folks actually read it? If they did read it did they tell them the necessary changes? How do you screw up a grayscale print AND refer to colors in the text below? (No, Wes, I'm not making this up).
> The FAA web site lists the Glider Flying Handbook as 2013. There is an errata sheet from 2015 available. This is despite the 2020 date on the Amazon copies. When I first say the Amazon copies with the 2020 date, I reached out to the SSF to see if this was a new revision. It is not. However, if someone has a copy of the acknowledgements page from one of these "2020" copies, would be curious to see if it still says SSA.COM for Soaring Society of America.

Frank Whiteley

My hard copy has the corrected URL for SSA.

Also, all of the published errata have been incorporated along with the rebranded "2020" on the cover which is missing from the online copy at the FAA website. The PDF version still shows 2013 and still shows "ssa.com". None of the errata have been incorporated. Rather strange. How tough could it have been to upload a copy before they sent it to the printers?

[Frank Whiteley]

On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 2:27:21 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 2:09:07 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> > On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 10:13:00 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > I've got a half dozen books specifically on this subject. Some are dated but I think still relevant. Others are 'current' but as was pointed out, inaccurate or have other issues.
> > >
> > > If you provide the 'right' incorrect answer to a test question on a written exam do you still get credit if all the other answers are wrong? How about a checkride? If a question comes up and you give the 'correct' (wrong) answer exactly as it appears in the FAA's official publication do you flunk the ride even though you're using their 'official' publication?
> > >
> > > I'm rather fond of Russell Holtz books at this point but I admit to using several others. I've always been promiscuous when it comes to reading technical things. So far he includes a lot of stuff that will probably be much more helpful to me over the long haul BUT.....they aren't cheap books.
> > >
> > > The FAA handbook was recently revised. Who did the copy editing? I see a list of credits in there. Did any of those folks actually read it? If they did read it did they tell them the necessary changes? How do you screw up a grayscale print AND refer to colors in the text below? (No, Wes, I'm not making this up).
> > The FAA web site lists the Glider Flying Handbook as 2013. There is an errata sheet from 2015 available. This is despite the 2020 date on the Amazon copies. When I first say the Amazon copies with the 2020 date, I reached out to the SSF to see if this was a new revision. It is not. However, if someone has a copy of the acknowledgements page from one of these "2020" copies, would be curious to see if it still says SSA.COM for Soaring Society of America.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
> My hard copy has the corrected URL for SSA.
>
> Also, all of the published errata have been incorporated along with the rebranded "2020" on the cover which is missing from the online copy at the FAA website. The PDF version still shows 2013 and still shows "ssa.com". None of the errata have been incorporated. Rather strange. How tough could it have been to upload a copy before they sent it to the printers?

That's interesting. Wonder where the money went? Is Amazon publishing government documents incorporating the errata sheets? Or perhaps the GPO did this? It certainly hasn't gone through the normal FAA revision channels.

Thanks for the reply.

Frank Whiteley