Cessna 152 Rudder trim adjustment?

[GEG]

Hi Folks,

I'm a low-time (10 hour) student pilot.
I took my first flights in my school's 152 about 2 years ago, then had
an 18-month wait for various reasons.

When I first flew the plane, I don't remember the right rudder being
such an issue (I flew 3 times 2 years ago).

Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be in.

So, before a know-nothing student says something to the instructor, I
wanted to give a shout to you guys and see what your thoughts
might be.

I understand the 152 has more need for right rudder than other planes.
Have others had this experience?
What should I look for?
What should I say - if anything?

I know it's not "no rudder needed", maybe I'm just not a very good pilot
yet.

Thanks,

Gary

[Jose]

> Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
> Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be in.

Have an instructor fly the plane - it may well be that the rudder trim
tab needs adjustment (there's a little tab at the end of the rudder
which can be bent one way or the other - it's like permanent rudder
trim). Don't bend it yourself - have someone who knows take care of it.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[GEG]

That's exactly what I'm talking about . . yes.
The instructors (a couple) fly the plane very day.
For me, it seems like that question should be asked.
Of course, I have an engineering background, and maybe
again, I'm just being lazy or alarmist.

I'll ask - what the heck.

Gary

[Guillermo]

"GEG" > wrote in message
...
> That's exactly what I'm talking about . . yes.
> The instructors (a couple) fly the plane very day.
> For me, it seems like that question should be asked.
> Of course, I have an engineering background, and maybe
> again, I'm just being lazy or alarmist.
>
> I'll ask - what the heck.

I'd say if you need right rudder even in cruise, then definitely the trim
tab needs to be readjusted. And I agree that you should let somebody who
knows how to do it handle it.
I never needed a lot of right rudder in the cessna 152 (I did all my private
training on one of those). Now, sometimes that spoils you.Now that I'm
training in a C172RG for commercial, you REALLY need a lot of right rudder
in several ocassions, and I find out that I don't do it as much beacuse I
was used to not use a lot of rudder in the 152.

[Dave Butler]

GEG wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm a low-time (10 hour) student pilot.
> I took my first flights in my school's 152 about 2 years ago, then had
> an 18-month wait for various reasons.
>
> When I first flew the plane, I don't remember the right rudder being
> such an issue (I flew 3 times 2 years ago).
>
> Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
> Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be in.

No rudder pressure should be required in cruise.

>
> So, before a know-nothing student says something to the instructor, I
> wanted to give a shout to you guys and see what your thoughts
> might be.
>
> I understand the 152 has more need for right rudder than other planes.

Actually, I would think the 150/152 would require about as little right rudder
pressure as any aircraft during climb. Been a long time since I've been in one,
but I remember transitioning to higher powered aircraft and discovering that I
then had to learn how to apply more rudder pressure during climb.

> Have others had this experience?
> What should I look for?

There's a bendable trim tab on the control surface itself. It's vulnerable to
being accidentally bent incorrectly.

Be open to the possibility that the turn and bank indicator is not installed
level in the panel.

> What should I say - if anything?

Just report your observations, just as you have here. Have someone else confirm
your observations, if possible. Expect that your observations might be dismissed
due to your low time. You may have to be persistent.

>
> I know it's not "no rudder needed", maybe I'm just not a very good pilot
> yet.

No rudder pressure should be required to keep the ball centered in cruise.

[Brian Colwell]

"GEG" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm a low-time (10 hour) student pilot.
> I took my first flights in my school's 152 about 2 years ago, then had
> an 18-month wait for various reasons.
>
> When I first flew the plane, I don't remember the right rudder being such
> an issue (I flew 3 times 2 years ago).
>
> Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
> Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be in.
>
> So, before a know-nothing student says something to the instructor, I
> wanted to give a shout to you guys and see what your thoughts
> might be.
>
> I understand the 152 has more need for right rudder than other planes.
> Have others had this experience?
> What should I look for?
> What should I say - if anything?
>
> I know it's not "no rudder needed", maybe I'm just not a very good pilot
> yet.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary

Not sure why you wouldn't talk to your instructor ...thats what he is there
for !!

Regards, BMC

[Gord Beaman]

Dave Butler > wrote:

snip
>
>Just report your observations, just as you have here. Have someone else confirm
>your observations, if possible. Expect that your observations might be dismissed
>due to your low time. You may have to be persistent.
>

It might seem unfair but it's called 'Paying your dues'...we must
all do it sometime... :)

--

--Gord
(use gordon in email)

"Without detonation, your car won't
move. That's what makes engines go".

"In my car, the high octane fuel detonates
better than the lower octane grades.
Fortunately for me, it doesn't PREVENT DETONATION".

-Burnore.

>Yes, Detonation is a normal condition and
>it occurs every time you have ignition,


-Josh

[Bob]

GEG wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm a low-time (10 hour) student pilot.
> I took my first flights in my school's 152 about 2 years ago, then
had
> an 18-month wait for various reasons.
>
> When I first flew the plane, I don't remember the right rudder being
> such an issue (I flew 3 times 2 years ago).
>
> Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
> Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be
in.
>
> So, before a know-nothing student says something to the instructor, I
> wanted to give a shout to you guys and see what your thoughts
> might be.
>
> I understand the 152 has more need for right rudder than other
planes.
> Have others had this experience?
> What should I look for?
> What should I say - if anything?
>
> I know it's not "no rudder needed", maybe I'm just not a very good
pilot
> yet.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary

[Bob]

A little trick I used to use while instructing was to intentionally add
a little left rudder until the student got used to both looking at the
TC and to get in the habit of keeping everything coordinated (this
worked a little better when I was MEIing). This may be what your
instructor was doing.
That or the trim tab needs some tweaking.

[Brian Whatcott]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:28:20 -0400, GEG >
wrote:

>Hi Folks,
>
>I'm a low-time (10 hour) student pilot.
>I took my first flights in my school's 152 about 2 years ago, then had
>an 18-month wait for various reasons.
>
>When I first flew the plane, I don't remember the right rudder being
>such an issue (I flew 3 times 2 years ago).
>
>Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
>Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be in.
>
>So, before a know-nothing student says something to the instructor, I
>wanted to give a shout to you guys and see what your thoughts
>might be.
>
>I understand the 152 has more need for right rudder than other planes.
>Have others had this experience?
>What should I look for?
>What should I say - if anything?
>
>I know it's not "no rudder needed", maybe I'm just not a very good pilot
>yet.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gary

Are you a very, very heavy student pilot?

If not, the 152 should fly reasonably straight boots off the pedals.
You do have equal tank loads, I expect?

Brian W

[GEG]

He was not.
It's also been noticed by a couple of other people now.

[GEG]

5' 10", 155 lbs, including my brain (subtract 3 oz. when I leave that
behind!)
Instructor at 190 lbs.

[nrp]

Before someone bends trhe rudder trim tab - they should make sure the
coupling links to the nose wheel steering are set correctly first.

My 172M links were set up incorrectly by what I otherwise consider a
reputable shop. The Cessna service manual states specifically not to
adjust these links just to make things fly straight. It may even have
come from the factory screwed up.

[[email protected]]

The Cessna mechanic needs to pay attention to the service
manual when troubleshooting badly rigged rudders. The rudder trim tab
has limited authority, and the pilot shouldn't have to hold large
amounts of pedal even if the tabs is off some. There are three possible
defects in this system:
1. A broken right rudder bar return spring. The left spring will pull
the left pedals forward and the pilot has to constantly hold right
rudder to fight it. These springs break rather often.
2. Someone may have fooled with the cable adjustments at the rudder to
center it. Those adjustments never need changing unless the pedals
aren't lined up when the rudder is centered. The rudder centering is
controlled by the nosewheel centering cam at the nosegear torque links,
and adjustments are made by changing the length of the nosegear
steering spring rods.
3 Everything might be OK but someone has bent the rudder trim tab the
wrong way altogether. To get right trim, the tab has to bend left.

The service manual rigging procedures are a bit complex, and a lot of
mechanics just ignore them and end up misadjusting stuff. We've often
found all the control systems way out of whack, sometimes dangerously
so.

Dan

[Qansett]

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"Brian Colwell" > wrote in message
news:Hysce.1160488$Xk.425252@pd7tw3no...
>
> "GEG" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I'm a low-time (10 hour) student pilot.
>> I took my first flights in my school's 152 about 2 years ago, then had
>> an 18-month wait for various reasons.
>>
>> When I first flew the plane, I don't remember the right rudder being such
>> an issue (I flew 3 times 2 years ago).
>>
>> Now, the right rudder needs a lot of attention, almost all the time.
>> Even in straight and level at cruise, some right rudder needs to be in.
>>
>> So, before a know-nothing student says something to the instructor, I
>> wanted to give a shout to you guys and see what your thoughts
>> might be.
>>
>> I understand the 152 has more need for right rudder than other planes.
>> Have others had this experience?
>> What should I look for?
>> What should I say - if anything?
>>
>> I know it's not "no rudder needed", maybe I'm just not a very good pilot
>> yet.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gary
>
> Not sure why you wouldn't talk to your instructor ...thats what he is
> there

I flew C150's and C172's in the early 1970's. none of them had rudder
trim.
Is he confusing it with another A/C type. I remember the PA28's had
rudder trim.
> for !!
>
> Regards, BMC
>

[George Patterson]

Qansett wrote:
>
> I flew C150's and C172's in the early 1970's. none of them had rudder
> trim.

Most of the 150s and all of the 172s I've flown had a rudder trim tab. When set
properly, the planes would cruise without needing rudder input. My C-150 did not
have such a tab. It was necessary to keep a bit of right rudder pressure all the
time. I got in the habit of flying with one foot, except for landing. I had to
break that habit in a hurry when I bought my Maule.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Dan]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:vQqte.9587$EH1.153@trndny03...
> Qansett wrote:
>>
>> I flew C150's and C172's in the early 1970's. none of them had rudder
>> trim.
>
> Most of the 150s and all of the 172s I've flown had a rudder trim tab.
> When set properly, the planes would cruise without needing rudder input.
> My C-150 did not have such a tab. It was necessary to keep a bit of right
> rudder pressure all the time. I got in the habit of flying with one foot,
> except for landing. I had to break that habit in a hurry when I bought my
> Maule.
>
> George Patterson


I fly a C152 and with a passenger it requires no rudder, with just myself on
board it requires slight right rudder all the time.

[Ron Natalie]

George Patterson wrote:
> Qansett wrote:
>
>>
>> I flew C150's and C172's in the early 1970's. none of them had
>> rudder trim.
>
>
> Most of the 150s and all of the 172s I've flown had a rudder trim tab.

All the 152's have 'em as do the later 172's. The early 172's (even
after they went to the swept tail) don't.