PIREP: Potomac TRACON Tour

[Charlie Derk]

All -

Just wanted to post my experiences from a tour that I took today of the
Potomac TRACON in Warrenton, VA.

First off, I got my instrument rating back in January, and today was the
first time I flew a ton of hard IFR. It was a 2.3 hour trip from KABE to
KHEF. I went IMC at 1000' MSL and broke out in Manassas at 700' MSL - what
a rush.

Anyway, I went down for an ADIZ seminar and tour of the TRACON. What a
facility! Kudos to all the controllers that came in on their day off to
give tours and explain the things they do to keep us safe. It was
enlightening.

I think one of the best questions that was asked was their biggest pet
peeves... most of them were regarding VFR pilots:
- Not being brief (giving your life history when calling in)
- Not executing turns in a timely fashion.
- Thinking that you switched frequencies, and you didn't, and in turn giving
your life history again!

All in all, it was a good trip (a) I got lots of good practice in the soup
and (b) I have a better understanding of what ATC does, why they do it, and
how to make their lives easier.

And for those of you that live or fly in/around the Washington DC area and
must deal with the ADIZ... ATC hates it just as much as we do.

I spoke to the gentleman that coordinates these tours, and he mentioned that
they plan on doing it once a quarter until the attendance dies down. There
were two seminars today, and I bet the one that I attended had about 75
people there. The personalized tours consisted of a controller working with
about 5 attendees. If you get the chance, by all means, do it - its worth
it.

I found out about it through the AOPA email newletter that comes out. The
thing fills up fast, so be quick. If you don't get in, you'll get on a
waiting list and if you still get cut, you'll have first crack at the next
one.

Regards,
Charlie Derk

[Baha]

Have you noticed anything about being a US Citizen on the requirements
to visit the tracon? In the last tour that they arranged here in
Seattle that was a requirement and upset a lot of H1Bs and permanent
residents.

All my visits to Dulles Approach, Dulles Tower and Washington Center
were a lot of fun when I used to live there.

Baha Acuner

[Newps]

Baha wrote:
> Have you noticed anything about being a US Citizen on the requirements
> to visit the tracon?

It's not a requirement. If you are not a US citizen you have to be
checked out in advance of your tour.

[Baha]

Newps wrote:
> Baha wrote:
> > Have you noticed anything about being a US Citizen on the
requirements
> > to visit the tracon?
>
> It's not a requirement. If you are not a US citizen you have to be
> checked out in advance of your tour.

Could you refer me to the rule/law/FAA material that says that? Here in
Seattle FSDO the thing was verbotten to the non-citizens. Period. My
emails, phone calls, etc. was turned down. If I can find something
about the way Potomac Tracon is handling this, it will enable us to
visit the Seattle Approach facilities.

Thanks,

Baha Acuner

[Newps]

Baha wrote:
> Newps wrote:
>
>>Baha wrote:
>>
>>>Have you noticed anything about being a US Citizen on the
>
> requirements
>
>>>to visit the tracon?
>>
>>It's not a requirement. If you are not a US citizen you have to be
>>checked out in advance of your tour.
>
>
> Could you refer me to the rule/law/FAA material that says that?

No. It's a memo that I presume all facilities gave to their
controllers. It says that anybody that isn't a citizen that wants a
tour is to be referred to the office. The manager will contact the FBI
and a quick background check will be done and then you get your tour.

[GEG]

And they wonder why students and low-timers
are intimidated to call into these guys!

Well, it's great to know!
They've got a busy airspace to care for.

Thanks for the report!

[W P Dixon]

Here at TRI they would not let a CFI from Brazil that works for my flight
school go on the tour of the ATC facility. Guess they are getting pretty
strict on it.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

[Jack Allison]

Good for you taking the tour Charlie. I had a chance to visit our local
TRACON (Norcal) a few months back and it was awesome. As it turned out,
I'm now partners with two guys that work in the facility so I'll be able
to go back sometime.

It's a great experience to see things from the controller's side of
things. If anyone ever gets an opportunity for something like this, by
all means, do it.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[bdl]

I second that Jack. I took a tour (part of Operation Raincheck?) here
at the STL TRACON. Excellent experience.

One thing I found interesting, was most of the group that was there for
the tour was VFR pilots, and didn't seem interested in instrument
procedures, etc. Mostly questions about VFR flight following, etc.

Still it was nice to look at the scopes and watch the traffic come in.
It's pretty light traffic these days in STL with the loss of hub status
by American, but it was still interesting.

They echo'd similar pet peeves. Getting a pilot's life story on
initial contact. Seems there's a certain flight school (affiliated
with a college) who's instructors are teaching their students that way.

Jack, Charlie were your tours part of an official program like
Operation Raincheck? Or just an ad hoc tour?

I'd like to do another one again, seems I had a bunch more questions
after I left than before I was there. Oh and I'd kill for more time on
their simulator (only had about 5 minutes due to a scheduling foulup).

Brian

[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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In rec.aviation.piloting Jack Allison > wrote:
> Good for you taking the tour Charlie. I had a chance to visit our local
> TRACON (Norcal) a few months back and it was awesome. As it turned out,
> I'm now partners with two guys that work in the facility so I'll be able
> to go back sometime.
>
> It's a great experience to see things from the controller's side of
> things. If anyone ever gets an opportunity for something like this, by
> all means, do it.

What steps did you take for getting the visit? I tried for a
group of us, and was turned down. 4 in my group were CFIs, and one a
controller in the LFPG FIR in France. Did you just call and arrange for
a tour? Did you mention Operation Raincheck? What was it you did to get
in?

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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[Charlie Derk]

Actually, it was part of Operation Raincheck. It happens 4 times a year
apparently. It also qualified as part of the Wings Program because they
did a 1/2 hour explaination on getting in an out of the ADIZ around the
Washington DC area.

I don't recall the initial email, but I think this one was just for
Potomac - it came out in the AOPA newsletter that I get via email once a
week or so.

Charlie

bdl wrote:
> I second that Jack. I took a tour (part of Operation Raincheck?) here
> at the STL TRACON. Excellent experience.
>
> One thing I found interesting, was most of the group that was there for
> the tour was VFR pilots, and didn't seem interested in instrument
> procedures, etc. Mostly questions about VFR flight following, etc.
>
> Still it was nice to look at the scopes and watch the traffic come in.
> It's pretty light traffic these days in STL with the loss of hub status
> by American, but it was still interesting.
>
> They echo'd similar pet peeves. Getting a pilot's life story on
> initial contact. Seems there's a certain flight school (affiliated
> with a college) who's instructors are teaching their students that way.
>
> Jack, Charlie were your tours part of an official program like
> Operation Raincheck? Or just an ad hoc tour?
>
> I'd like to do another one again, seems I had a bunch more questions
> after I left than before I was there. Oh and I'd kill for more time on
> their simulator (only had about 5 minutes due to a scheduling foulup).
>
> Brian
>

[Charlie Derk]

It was part of Operation Raincheck. Not sure if all the TRACONS do it.
Potomac is the 3rd busiest on the country - I think SOCAL was #1,
NORCAL maybe 4th... I'm sure its possible at any one of them. Luckily
the Potomac TRACON has someone there who does this pretty regularly.
There were representatives there from AOPA as well.

Randy Horner is the contact @ Potomac.

Charlie

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
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>
> In rec.aviation.piloting Jack Allison > wrote:
>
>>Good for you taking the tour Charlie. I had a chance to visit our local
>>TRACON (Norcal) a few months back and it was awesome. As it turned out,
>>I'm now partners with two guys that work in the facility so I'll be able
>>to go back sometime.
>>
>>It's a great experience to see things from the controller's side of
>>things. If anyone ever gets an opportunity for something like this, by
>>all means, do it.
>
>
> What steps did you take for getting the visit? I tried for a
> group of us, and was turned down. 4 in my group were CFIs, and one a
> controller in the LFPG FIR in France. Did you just call and arrange for
> a tour? Did you mention Operation Raincheck? What was it you did to get
> in?
>
> BL.
> - --
> Brad Littlejohn | Email:
> Unix Systems Administrator, |
> Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
> PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF
>
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> =41IY
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[Jack Allison]

bdl wrote:

> Still it was nice to look at the scopes and watch the traffic come in.
> It's pretty light traffic these days in STL with the loss of hub status
> by American, but it was still interesting.
Yes, it is fun, isn't it? I could sit there for hours
watching/listening to traffic.

> Jack, Charlie were your tours part of an official program like
> Operation Raincheck? Or just an ad hoc tour?

Mine was an unofficial tour as I know a controller and a supervisor that
work at the facility. They're my two partners in the Arrow.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

> What steps did you take for getting the visit?
Slightly unorthodox (and lucky)...I met one of the controllers at the
facility during an IFR ground school. Turns out he was looking for an
airplane partner and in the process of buying a plane, I got a tour.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Baha]

Newps wrote:
>
> No. It's a memo that I presume all facilities gave to their
> controllers. It says that anybody that isn't a citizen that wants a
> tour is to be referred to the office. The manager will contact the
FBI
> and a quick background check will be done and then you get your tour.

Looks like anything that comes from TSA, standards are different
depending on who you talk to. Here in Seattle, I was told "no way"
period. It's such a shame that I can teach US citizens how to fly, but
I cannot go in to a TRACON. The same thing goes for a student who is
writing security code for a major software company, but he (a permanent
resident) cannot visit the TRACON.

At any rate, could you give me some names, some leads about the
organizers of this Operation Raincheck? I have been working with AOPA
about this issue and telling them about this memo could enable Seattle
area pilots to visit Seattle Approach / Center.

Thanks,

Baha Acuner

[bdl]

Mine was part of Operation Raincheck as well. There was a specific
discussion of the e-STMP program that was going to be in place for the
Final Four in STL. The e-STMP program was kind of glossed over since
most of the pilots in the room were VFR-only.

>Yes, it is fun, isn't it? I could sit there for hours
>watching/listening to traffic.

Me too! Hell, I do that now with my handheld scanner anytime I'm in the
office (about 2 miles from Lambert)

The controllers all seemed pretty laid back. Looked like it would be a
fun place to work, although I could see how it could be extremely
stressful at times.

I'm a systems guy, so being able to see another aspect of a system that
I knew from the pilot side is nice.

I'd really like to do one with Chicago Approach Control (or Center too
for that matter). Hmm.. need to research who to call on that one.....

Brian

[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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In rec.aviation.piloting Charlie Derk > wrote:
> It was part of Operation Raincheck. Not sure if all the TRACONS do it.
> Potomac is the 3rd busiest on the country - I think SOCAL was #1,
> NORCAL maybe 4th... I'm sure its possible at any one of them. Luckily
> the Potomac TRACON has someone there who does this pretty regularly.
> There were representatives there from AOPA as well.
>
> Randy Horner is the contact @ Potomac.

VERY interesting. I called Las Vegas Tracon pre 9/11 about
getting a tour there, mentioned Operation Raincheck, that we had some
students wanting to have a tour of the local facility, and even was
accompanied by the senior controller at O'Hare TRACON, and was not only
told emphatically NO, but that there was no such thing as Operation
Raincheck.

I wish they could be consistent across the board at the
facilities. Friends of mine could get into LA Center for a tour, but
not into LAS TRACON. They could get into Columbus FSS, but not Omaha
TRACON.. It's frustrating. and you're right. You really have to wonder
why pilots are afraid to/don't want to talk to them.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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