Banner Towing

[Scott Schluer]

Are there any requirements (for either the pilot or the aircraft) for towing
a banner (specifically using a late model C172S)? I'm a private pilot with
about 145 hours TT and no banner towing experience. The only reason I ask is
that my fiance and I are planning on getting married in Sedona, AZ next
year. We both pretty much fell in love with each other on a trip to Sedona
when I flew us both in for a weekend getaway. We were thinking it would be
kind of fun to fly ourselves in again for the wedding, and then take off for
the flight home with a "Just Married" banner behind us. Corny, I know. ;-)
Just wondering what the requirements for banner towing are...

[Mike W.]

Read FAR §91.311
--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....

"Scott Schluer" > wrote in message
news:MXzde.5141$tQ.3021@fed1read06...
> Are there any requirements (for either the pilot or the aircraft) for
towing
> a banner (specifically using a late model C172S)? I'm a private pilot with
> about 145 hours TT and no banner towing experience. The only reason I ask
is
> that my fiance and I are planning on getting married in Sedona, AZ next
> year. We both pretty much fell in love with each other on a trip to Sedona
> when I flew us both in for a weekend getaway. We were thinking it would be
> kind of fun to fly ourselves in again for the wedding, and then take off
for
> the flight home with a "Just Married" banner behind us. Corny, I know. ;-)
> Just wondering what the requirements for banner towing are...
>
>

[Jose]

> We were thinking it would be kind of fun to fly ourselves
> in again for the wedding, and then take of for
> the flight home with a "Just Married" banner behind us. Corny, I know. ;-)
> Just wondering what the requirements for banner towing are...

In addition to checking the regs, get some dual towing banners first.
There may well be some handing surprises, and you don't want to learn
about them on your way to what you hoped would be your honeymoon. :)

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[tony roberts]

Hi Scott

Send me your real email address and I'll send you some good info.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

n article <MXzde.5141$tQ.3021@fed1read06>,
"Scott Schluer" > wrote:

> Are there any requirements (for either the pilot or the aircraft) for towing
> a banner (specifically using a late model C172S)? I'm a private pilot with
> about 145 hours TT and no banner towing experience. The only reason I ask is
> that my fiance and I are planning on getting married in Sedona, AZ next
> year. We both pretty much fell in love with each other on a trip to Sedona
> when I flew us both in for a weekend getaway. We were thinking it would be
> kind of fun to fly ourselves in again for the wedding, and then take off for
> the flight home with a "Just Married" banner behind us. Corny, I know. ;-)
> Just wondering what the requirements for banner towing are...

[Cub Driver]

I often watch (and sometimes fly in the pattern with) a banner-tow
airplane. Picking up the banner requires equipment, a partner, and (I
imagine) considerable skill.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 2 May 2005 17:53:21 -0700, "Scott Schluer" >
wrote in <MXzde.5141$tQ.3021@fed1read06>::

>We were thinking it would be
>kind of fun to fly ourselves in again for the wedding, and then take off for
>the flight home with a "Just Married" banner behind us.

You'll find that there is a rather severe performance penalty due to
the increased drag caused by the banner.

Your aircraft will need an approved tow hitch installed. You'd
probably have to arrange for a ground man at the departure and landing
airports, and get permission from the airport management. If you hold
a commercial certificate, I don't believe you'd need an FAA waiver.
Otherwise, I would assume the FSDO would require some evidence of
prior towing experience.

It's a cute thought, and might even make the newspapers/TV news, but
it's a mite impractical, IMHO.

[Jose]

> You'll find that there is a rather severe performance penalty due to
> the increased drag caused by the banner...
> [...]
> It's a cute thought, and might even make the newspapers/TV news, but
> it's a mite impractical, IMHO.

For a small enough banner this might be a minor issue. How small can
your banner be and still be worth doing (for your purposes?)

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Michael]

> Just wondering what the requirements for banner towing are...

A waiver from the FSDO, which you are unlikely to get as a 145 hour
private pilot.

Refer to 14CFR91.311 Towing: Other than under 91.309.
No pilot of a civil aircraft may tow anything with that aircraft (other
than
under 91.309) except in accordance with the terms of a certificate of
waiver
issued by the Administrator.
91.309 cover glider towing.

Michael

[Dudley Henriques]

Bad idea! Forget it. Special equipment, special crew, special training, and
whatever you do, don't even THINK about trailing something out the window of
a 172 to avoid all this :-))
Dudley Henriques

"Scott Schluer" > wrote in message
news:MXzde.5141$tQ.3021@fed1read06...
> Are there any requirements (for either the pilot or the aircraft) for
> towing a banner (specifically using a late model C172S)? I'm a private
> pilot with about 145 hours TT and no banner towing experience. The only
> reason I ask is that my fiance and I are planning on getting married in
> Sedona, AZ next year. We both pretty much fell in love with each other on
> a trip to Sedona when I flew us both in for a weekend getaway. We were
> thinking it would be kind of fun to fly ourselves in again for the
> wedding, and then take off for the flight home with a "Just Married"
> banner behind us. Corny, I know. ;-) Just wondering what the requirements
> for banner towing are...
>

[Peter R.]

Dudley wrote:

> Bad idea! Forget it. Special equipment, special crew, special
training, and
> whatever you do, don't even THINK about trailing something out the
window of
> a 172 to avoid all this :-))

So, the idea that he tie a couple of old sneakers and a bunch of tin
cans to the struts wouldn't work?

--
Peter

[[email protected]]

We've done some banner towing, and there's more to it than meets
the eye. An STC'd tow hook with quick release ($$), special banners
($$), ground crew ($$), and special techniques (Practice and more $$).
We use a 7-foot tall banner (biggest we could get) and it's barely
readable at 1000 feet. Not terribly practical at that altitude. The
drag is enormous, climb is poor and the engine gets plenty hot, with
near full power at 70 mph in a 150 hp Citabria. I had a better time
towing gliders.

Dan

[Dudley Henriques]

"Peter R." > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dudley wrote:
>
>> Bad idea! Forget it. Special equipment, special crew, special
> training, and
>> whatever you do, don't even THINK about trailing something out the
> window of
>> a 172 to avoid all this :-))
>
> So, the idea that he tie a couple of old sneakers and a bunch of tin
> cans to the struts wouldn't work?
>
> --
> Peter

For some reason I can't shake this vision of something streaming out the
window and getting caught in the right horizontal stabilizer/elevator hinge
margin. Could make for a VERY interesting flight!!
Dudley Henriques

[Cub Driver]

On 3 May 2005 09:01:58 -0700, "Michael"
> wrote:

>A waiver from the FSDO, which you are unlikely to get as a 145 hour
>private pilot.

I didn't notice that part!

I don't think a 145 hour pilot ought to be picking up banners, and
certainly not on his wedding day.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 03 May 2005 22:57:32 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> wrote:

>For some reason I can't shake this vision of something streaming out the
>window and getting caught in the right horizontal stabilizer/elevator hinge
>margin. Could make for a VERY interesting flight!!

Maurice Kirk, who is trying to fly his L-4 Cub around the world,
thought he could jettison his empty gasoline jerry-jugs en route from
New Zealand to Australia. He let the first one stream back but
couldn't maneuver it past the flying wires on the tail.

Then he had the task of hauling it back in. His flight almost ended
right there.

http://www.pipercubforum.com/l4world.htm




-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Dudley Henriques]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 May 2005 22:57:32 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
> <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote:
>
>>For some reason I can't shake this vision of something streaming out the
>>window and getting caught in the right horizontal stabilizer/elevator
>>hinge
>>margin. Could make for a VERY interesting flight!!
>
> Maurice Kirk, who is trying to fly his L-4 Cub around the world,
> thought he could jettison his empty gasoline jerry-jugs en route from
> New Zealand to Australia. He let the first one stream back but
> couldn't maneuver it past the flying wires on the tail.
>
> Then he had the task of hauling it back in. His flight almost ended
> right there.
>
> http://www.pipercubforum.com/l4world.htm


Segway?

Dudley Henriques

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 04 May 2005 05:37:02 -0400, Cub Driver
> wrote in
>::

>On 3 May 2005 09:01:58 -0700, "Michael"
> wrote:
>
>>A waiver from the FSDO, which you are unlikely to get as a 145 hour
>>private pilot.
>
>I didn't notice that part!

I believe a waiver is only necessary for airmen who don't hold a
Commercial Certificate or ATP.

[TaxSrv]

"Larry Dighera" wrote:
> ...
> I believe a waiver is only necessary for airmen who
> don't hold a Commercial Certificate or ATP.

The waivers I've seen obtained by my friend in this business and his
pilots I believe say a commercial certificate is required. Whether or
not they would issue a waiver to a private pilot, thus for
noncommercial activity, would be a question to be posed to the FSDO.

Fred F.

[Peter Duniho]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> I believe a waiver is only necessary for airmen who don't hold a
> Commercial Certificate or ATP.

The regulation referenced earlier in this thread, 91.311, doesn't say
anything about the type of certificate.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 4 May 2005 11:19:24 -0400, "TaxSrv" > wrote
in >::

>"Larry Dighera" wrote:
>> ...
>> I believe a waiver is only necessary for airmen who
>> don't hold a Commercial Certificate or ATP.
>
>The waivers I've seen obtained by my friend in this business and his
>pilots I believe say a commercial certificate is required. Whether or
>not they would issue a waiver to a private pilot, thus for
>noncommercial activity, would be a question to be posed to the FSDO.

Given:

§ 91.311 Towing: Other than under §91.309.

No pilot of a civil aircraft may tow anything with that aircraft
(other than under §91.309) except in accordance with the terms of a
certificate of waiver issued by the Administrator.

It would appear that any towing by any pilot with the exception of
Gliders and unpowered ultralight vehicles requires a waiver.

[Blueskies]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 11:19:24 -0400, "TaxSrv" > wrote
> in >::
> Given:
>
> § 91.311 Towing: Other than under §91.309.
>
> No pilot of a civil aircraft may tow anything with that aircraft
> (other than under §91.309) except in accordance with the terms of a
> certificate of waiver issued by the Administrator.
>
> It would appear that any towing by any pilot with the exception of
> Gliders and unpowered ultralight vehicles requires a waiver.


Interesting that the TFRs around stadiums pretty much rule out any banner towing aircraft, and that apparently all
banner towing pilots need this waiver.