out-gassing of garment soils in deep space?

[[email protected]]

Meanwhile, over in a Mars discussion board, the question has been
raised about whether one can clean garments during an inter-panetary
mission, just by exposing them to the vacuum of deep space.
Let us presume that the major soils are body oils of the groin and
axillary areas.

[Denny]

Volatiles will out gas off the fabric... Solids will remain behind...
Many viruses will survive... Bacteria may or may not survive, depending
upon multiple factors... Those buried deep within the feces/sweat
smears will have a partial percentage of survivers... Stains will not
go away... The clothing will not look or feel fresh... You will still
need the magic of detergents and agitation followed by a clean water
rinse, before drying the clothes just like dear old mom did; by
hanging them on the clothes line in the back airlock and cycling it
open on laundry day...
The combination of a hard vacuum and exposure to direct sunlight will
be more effective... The high temperature of the sunshine (dark colors
will probably smoke a bit) and the hard UV radiation is an effective
germicide... Though, your clothing will rapidly fade and become raggedy
under intense UV and Xray bombardment from the Sun...

You can do your own vacuum test out in the garage (though radiation is
a bit harder to simulate) by putting some really nasty underwear in a
can, heating it to 250F, and pulling a hard vacuum on it for a day or
two, then remove the shorts and smear the crotch all over your
tongue... Taste anything?

cheers ... Dr. denny

[The Ghost In The Machine]

In sci.physics,
>
wrote
on 8 May 2005 22:01:26 -0700
. com>:
> Meanwhile, over in a Mars discussion board, the question has been
> raised about whether one can clean garments during an inter-panetary
> mission, just by exposing them to the vacuum of deep space.
> Let us presume that the major soils are body oils of the groin and
> axillary areas.
>

There is a problem: it gets cold in space. :-) Will a heater
be involved?

--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.

[pete]

In sci.space.tech, on Tue, 10 May 2005 15:00:09 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine > sez:
` In sci.physics,
` >
` wrote
` on 8 May 2005 22:01:26 -0700
` . com>:
` > Meanwhile, over in a Mars discussion board, the question has been
` > raised about whether one can clean garments during an inter-panetary
` > mission, just by exposing them to the vacuum of deep space.
` > Let us presume that the major soils are body oils of the groin and
` > axillary areas.
` >

` There is a problem: it gets cold in space. :-) Will a heater
` be involved?

Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean 'em.


--
================================================== ========================
Pete Vincent
Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet.

[Rich S.]

"pete" > wrote in message
...
> ` There is a problem: it gets cold in space. :-) Will a heater
> ` be involved?
>
> Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean 'em.

Oops! Problem with that. The fumes will kill your parrot, then where will
you be?

Rich S.

[Frank van der Hulst]

pete wrote:
> Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean 'em.

Sheeshh... You're a *million* miles from any peeping tom... go nude!

;-)

[pete]

In sci.space.tech, on Thu, 12 May 2005 17:41:52 -0700, Rich S. > sez:
` "pete" > wrote in message
` ...
` > ` There is a problem: it gets cold in space. :-) Will a heater
` > ` be involved?
` >
` > Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean 'em.

` Oops! Problem with that. The fumes will kill your parrot, then where will
` you be?

No, afaik the fumes evolve at higher temp (400?, 600?).

--
================================================== ========================
Pete Vincent
Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet.

[Rich S.]

"pete" > wrote in message
...
> In sci.space.tech, on Thu, 12 May 2005 17:41:52 -0700, Rich S.
> > sez:
> ` "pete" > wrote in message
> ` ...
> ` > ` There is a problem: it gets cold in space. :-) Will a heater
> ` > ` be involved?
> ` >
> ` > Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean
> 'em.
>
> ` Oops! Problem with that. The fumes will kill your parrot, then where
> will
> ` you be?
>
> No, afaik the fumes evolve at higher temp (400?, 600?).

No, 500° F (260° C). see http://tinyurl.com/cndss
Also http://www.parrotparrot.com/birdhealth/kola.htm

Aye, tis sad to see a pirate wi'out his parrot.

Rich "Arrr" S.

[snidely]

Frank van der Hulst wrote:
> pete wrote:
> > Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean
'em.
>
> Sheeshh... You're a *million* miles from any peeping tom... go nude!
>
> ;-)

Cute, but like I said in the original thread, there are sanitary
reasons for considering at least minimal clothing, not to mention
protecting the skin from the item being worked on (tool slippage, hot
liquid splahes, abrasion, etc).


It would also be interesting to be able to qunatify how much the
clothing reduces dispersal of dead skin cells and loose hair shafts. We
might end up asking them to wear watch caps in addition to uniforms!

And the crew, for the near future at least, will be taking the peeping
toms along via downlink!


/dps

[Morgans]

"pete" > wrote

> No, afaik the fumes evolve at higher temp (400?, 600?).

Sorry, wrong. The Teflon starts to break down at temps as low as 500
degrees *F* The previous poster was talking about temps in C.

The Teflon puts out tiny fibrous like stuff that floats through the air, and
while it kills Poly, it is none too good on humans, too. Since I have
birds, I have very little Teflon, and when it is used, I watch it like a
hawk. 500F is possible at the heat that barely burns bacon.
--
Jim in NC

[Anthony W]

Morgans wrote:
> "pete" > wrote
>
>
>>No, afaik the fumes evolve at higher temp (400?, 600?).
>
>
> Sorry, wrong. The Teflon starts to break down at temps as low as 500
> degrees *F* The previous poster was talking about temps in C.
>
> The Teflon puts out tiny fibrous like stuff that floats through the air, and
> while it kills Poly, it is none too good on humans, too. Since I have
> birds, I have very little Teflon, and when it is used, I watch it like a
> hawk. 500F is possible at the heat that barely burns bacon.

How about paper suites like clean room techs wear. Use them a few days
and then shoot them out to burn up in the trail of the engines. A large
supply won't take much space or weigh a lot.

Tony

[pete]

In sci.space.tech, on Mon, 16 May 2005 07:32:34 -0700, Rich S. > sez:
` "pete" > wrote in message
` ...
` > In sci.space.tech, on Thu, 12 May 2005 17:41:52 -0700, Rich S.
` > > sez:
` > ` "pete" > wrote in message
` > ` ...
` > ` > ` There is a problem: it gets cold in space. :-) Will a heater
` > ` > ` be involved?
` > ` >
` > ` > Make all the clothes out of teflon, then roast 'em at 300C to clean
` > 'em.
` >
` > ` Oops! Problem with that. The fumes will kill your parrot, then where
` > will
` > ` you be?
` >
` > No, afaik the fumes evolve at higher temp (400?, 600?).

` No, 500? F (260? C). see http://tinyurl.com/cndss
` Also http://www.parrotparrot.com/birdhealth/kola.htm

Ah, OK, sorry, must be another example of people talking to me in
archaic units without specifying. ...I wonder how clean you could
get teflon by roasting at 200 (C of course)... On further reflection,
I bet the problem would be with fastener mechanisms - thread,
elastics, zippers. Might be hard to get teflon versions.

` Aye, tis sad to see a pirate wi'out his parrot.

` Rich "Arrr" S.



--
================================================== ========================
Pete Vincent
Disclaimer: all I know I learned from reading Usenet.

[Capt.Doug]

>"Denny" wrote in message
> You can do your own vacuum test out in the garage (though radiation is
> a bit harder to simulate) by putting some really nasty underwear in a
> can, heating it to 250F, and pulling a hard vacuum on it for a day or
> two, then remove the shorts and smear the crotch all over your
> tongue... Taste anything?

It tasted like dirty underwear.
The smell however was different. It smelled like some pilots I met at a
fly-in in Indiana.

D.

[Nog]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Meanwhile, over in a Mars discussion board, the question has been
> raised about whether one can clean garments during an inter-panetary
> mission, just by exposing them to the vacuum of deep space.
> Let us presume that the major soils are body oils of the groin and
> axillary areas.
>
They could make clothes edible. Then you could eat them after you are done
wearing them. Save all that water with washing clothes.
They make paper clothes. I'm sure they can make clothes out of grain or soy
that you can eat.
On the other hand I don't see why they just can't work naked and take a
sponge bath daily. You don't need clothes in a controled environment. All it
needs is a change in attitude. Clothes are a learned thing. Not a natural or
necessary thing. Modesty is learned and unnecessary.

[Joann Evans]

Nog wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Meanwhile, over in a Mars discussion board, the question has been
> > raised about whether one can clean garments during an inter-panetary
> > mission, just by exposing them to the vacuum of deep space.
> > Let us presume that the major soils are body oils of the groin and
> > axillary areas.
> >
> They could make clothes edible. Then you could eat them after you are done
> wearing them. Save all that water with washing clothes.
> They make paper clothes. I'm sure they can make clothes out of grain or soy
> that you can eat.


Now, stop and think about what you're saying...do you really want to
*ingest* material that's too dirty to wear? Think about the basis of the
insult; "Eat my shorts."


> On the other hand I don't see why they just can't work naked and take a
> sponge bath daily. You don't need clothes in a controled environment. All it
> needs is a change in attitude. Clothes are a learned thing. Not a natural or
> necessary thing. Modesty is learned and unnecessary.


Remember this, next time someone brings up sex in space (and I mean
crews, not tourists) again.

And...what becomes of the sponges?


--

You know what to remove, to reply....

[Ed Sullivan]

On Sat, 21 May 2005 07:05:59 -0700, Mark Hickey >
wrote:

>
>OK... I've always had a dream of being an astronaut, but for the first
>time ever I've been talked out of it. The thought of having nekkid
>astronaut parts drifting by me all day is enough to keep me bound to
>Earth's gravity.
>
>Mark "eeeee-eeewwww" Hickey

I'd be more concerned that they just kept drifting by!

ooooooo! yikes!

[[email protected]]

In article >,
Joann Evans > wrote:
>Nog wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Meanwhile, over in a Mars discussion board, the question has been
>> > raised about whether one can clean garments during an inter-panetary
>> > mission, just by exposing them to the vacuum of deep space.
>> > Let us presume that the major soils are body oils of the groin and
>> > axillary areas.
>> >
>> They could make clothes edible. Then you could eat them after you are
done
>> wearing them. Save all that water with washing clothes.
>> They make paper clothes. I'm sure they can make clothes out of grain or
soy
>> that you can eat.
>
>
> Now, stop and think about what you're saying...do you really want to
>*ingest* material that's too dirty to wear? Think about the basis of the
>insult; "Eat my shorts."
>
>
>> On the other hand I don't see why they just can't work naked and take a
>> sponge bath daily. You don't need clothes in a controled environment.
All it
>> needs is a change in attitude. Clothes are a learned thing. Not a
natural or
>> necessary thing. Modesty is learned and unnecessary.
>
>
> Remember this, next time someone brings up sex in space (and I mean
>crews, not tourists) again.
>
> And...what becomes of the sponges?

I'd be more worried about the bits that sluff off getting
into circuits and stuff. Take a look inside a PC that has
been setting around in a large, airy space in a home.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

[[email protected]]

Nog wrote:
> Modesty is learned and unnecessary.

very interesting hypothesis.

can you support it with any experimental evidence?

Or is it an axiom.... in YOUR mind?

[[email protected]]

> And the crew, for the near future at least, will be
> taking the peeping toms along via downlink!

I think the people who decide whether a Mars flight gets funded, will
tell you that the downlink of the show, is 99% of what made it
sell-able.....

Is there any real reason why the Mars flight couldn't be funded by TV
networks and product endorsements? These two forces do a rather good
job of carrying on the charade that Professional and College Sports,
and the Olympics, are about athletics....

[Henry Spencer]

In article >, Nog > wrote:
>On the other hand I don't see why they just can't work naked and take a
>sponge bath daily. You don't need clothes in a controled environment.

Apart from wanting some protection for delicate body parts, *pockets* are
immensely useful even in a controlled environment. If anything, they're
more useful in free fall than on Earth: small objects don't just stay
where you put them unless restrained somehow, and it's less convenient to
just carry things because moving around requires using your hands as well
as your feet.

>All it needs is a change in attitude... Modesty is learned and unnecessary.

In principle, yes. In practice, unlearning such attitudes is not easy;
people are not happy about it and won't do it without urgent need. And
given that you need pockets anyway...
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

[Frank van der Hulst]

Henry Spencer wrote:
> In principle, yes. In practice, unlearning such attitudes is not easy;
> people are not happy about it and won't do it without urgent need. And
> given that you need pockets anyway...

Velcro hooks on the objects... hairy limbs to attach to. Problem solved.

[Gregory L. Hansen]

In article . com>,
> wrote:
>> And the crew, for the near future at least, will be
>> taking the peeping toms along via downlink!
>
>I think the people who decide whether a Mars flight gets funded, will
>tell you that the downlink of the show, is 99% of what made it
>sell-able.....
>
>Is there any real reason why the Mars flight couldn't be funded by TV
>networks and product endorsements? These two forces do a rather good
>job of carrying on the charade that Professional and College Sports,
>and the Olympics, are about athletics....
>


I've wanted to try to get corporate sponsorships into the lab. I imagine
painting the whole cryostat like a can of Budweiser and calling it the
Anheuser-Busch Neutron Radiometer.


--
"'No user-serviceable parts inside.' I'll be the judge of that!"

[Gregory L. Hansen]

In article om>,
> wrote:
>Nog wrote:
>> Modesty is learned and unnecessary.
>
> very interesting hypothesis.
>
> can you support it with any experimental evidence?
>
> Or is it an axiom.... in YOUR mind?
>


You don't read National Geographic?


--
"Tell me, Dr. Einstein, at what time does Boston arrive at this train?"

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.space.tech wrote:
>> And the crew, for the near future at least, will be
>> taking the peeping toms along via downlink!
>
> I think the people who decide whether a Mars flight gets funded, will
> tell you that the downlink of the show, is 99% of what made it
> sell-able.....
>
> Is there any real reason why the Mars flight couldn't be funded by TV
> networks and product endorsements? These two forces do a rather good
> job of carrying on the charade that Professional and College Sports,
> and the Olympics, are about athletics....

Of course, the real question is will you be willing to find astronauts that'll
go along with the evictions.

[Rick Jones]

In sci.space.tech Frank van der Hulst > wrote:
> Henry Spencer wrote:
>> In principle, yes. In practice, unlearning such attitudes is not
>> easy; people are not happy about it and won't do it without urgent
>> need. And given that you need pockets anyway...

> Velcro hooks on the objects... hairy limbs to attach to. Problem
> solved.

The follicularly (sp) challenged should not be excluded so from the
opportunity to travel in space.

:)

rick jones
--
Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

[snidely]

wrote:
[...]
> Is there any real reason why the Mars flight couldn't be funded by TV
> networks and product endorsements? These two forces do a rather good
> job of carrying on the charade that Professional and College Sports,
> and the Olympics, are about athletics....

Hmmm...WWF Free Fall Wrestling...and the 50m butterfly air-swim...good
thinking! "And this is Pat Summerall with you for the final matchup of
the outbound voyage, with the teams playing for the Phobos Cup!"

Might also be some sort of cross possible between volleyball and
handball (or "Space Squash"!) but basketball, football, Football,
Canadian Football, Australian Football, Arena Football, Rugby, hocky,
lacrosse, and baseball all seem more difficult to port over. Hold it,
maybe Arena Football is a natural after all -- everyone is flying
through the air in that version, aren't they?

/dps

[The Ghost In The Machine]

In sci.physics, Rick Jones
>
wrote
on Fri, 27 May 2005 17:09:14 GMT
>:
> In sci.space.tech Frank van der Hulst > wrote:
>> Henry Spencer wrote:
>>> In principle, yes. In practice, unlearning such attitudes is not
>>> easy; people are not happy about it and won't do it without urgent
>>> need. And given that you need pockets anyway...
>
>> Velcro hooks on the objects... hairy limbs to attach to. Problem
>> solved.
>
> The follicularly (sp) challenged should not be excluded so from the
> opportunity to travel in space.
>
>:)
>
> rick jones

Wouldn't the hair foul the hooks after awhile?

--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.