DeltaHawk Diesel

[wingsnaprop]

Anyone else see this? I told you this Engine was Gonna Kick Ass! ..
I know.. no one likes an 'I told you so'.. sorry...

http://www.deltahawkengines.com/perfor07.shtml

2.5 Gal/hr @ 11,500 ft @ 2000 RPM / 135 Knots in a Velocity W/ 160 hp
engine thats about... what? 60% to 65% power..?

So ( and assuming truth in advertising, Which the People at DeltaHawk
Have proven to ME time and time again that they are honest and
forth-coming about their progress and Problems...)

we got 2.5 gal/hr @ 60% @ 11,500 ft ... HHHHHMMMMMMmmmmmm....

Lycoming looks like about 5.5 Gal/hr

[Dude]

"wingsnaprop" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anyone else see this? I told you this Engine was Gonna Kick Ass! ..
> I know.. no one likes an 'I told you so'.. sorry...
>
> http://www.deltahawkengines.com/perfor07.shtml
>
> 2.5 Gal/hr @ 11,500 ft @ 2000 RPM / 135 Knots in a Velocity W/ 160 hp
> engine thats about... what? 60% to 65% power..?
>
> So ( and assuming truth in advertising, Which the People at DeltaHawk
> Have proven to ME time and time again that they are honest and
> forth-coming about their progress and Problems...)
>
> we got 2.5 gal/hr @ 60% @ 11,500 ft ... HHHHHMMMMMMmmmmmm....
>
> Lycoming looks like about 5.5 Gal/hr
>

But can you buy one, and is it reliable and reasonably easy to maintain.

If not, they are less than 20% of the way towards making a profiitable, and
therefore, sustainable product.

I saw plenty of tech companies that actually delayed delivery and execution
ad infinitum because they knew (or were scared) that when they actually put
the thing in play, they would actually make less money. IOW, the investors
are easier to squeeze until you actually start failing to make money hand
over fist.

I know, no one likes a pessimist.. sorry..

[Dave S]

Can you buy one NOW? Should I delay building and flying waiting on them?
They were saying "next spring" 4 years ago. When they are SELLING, then
I will consider them an option. Until then, I watch with guarded optimism.

Dave

[MJC]

I've been following their "progress" for about 3 years now.
Despite their claims, there is still much doubt if they'll ever get to
market. They have shown no interest in FWF issues other than making repeated
claims that someone else is working on it. Uh uh.
I was one of those "this close" to sending them money but had second
thoughts after calling in person. I'm glad I didn't, and have chosen a
Lycoming IO-360 for my RV.
Even IF you could pick one up today, you would still be out on a limb
and all by yourself for installing it. There are no motor mounts available,
no cowl made for it, and no tech help offered by DH for all the connection
issues. Plus, there is only one flying which is a LONG way away from
establishing any kind of reliability. If the engine ever does come to
market, the first 100 buyers at least are going to be paying lot's of
dollars (more than a Lycoming would cost ) for the priviledge of being a
test pilot.
Those that are dreaming of building, dream about a Deltahawk. Those that
are actually building, and who want to actually FLY, are still going with
Lycoming.

MJC

"wingsnaprop" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anyone else see this? I told you this Engine was Gonna Kick Ass! ..
> I know.. no one likes an 'I told you so'.. sorry...
>
> http://www.deltahawkengines.com/perfor07.shtml
>
> 2.5 Gal/hr @ 11,500 ft @ 2000 RPM / 135 Knots in a Velocity W/ 160 hp
> engine thats about... what? 60% to 65% power..?
>
> So ( and assuming truth in advertising, Which the People at DeltaHawk
> Have proven to ME time and time again that they are honest and
> forth-coming about their progress and Problems...)
>
> we got 2.5 gal/hr @ 60% @ 11,500 ft ... HHHHHMMMMMMmmmmmm....
>
> Lycoming looks like about 5.5 Gal/hr
>

[wingsnaprop]

All Valid Points. But, build a better mousetrap, ect.......... and,
What would be your thoughts if Lycoming bought them ? Could happen.

[Dude]

"wingsnaprop" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> All Valid Points. But, build a better mousetrap, ect.......... and,
> What would be your thoughts if Lycoming bought them ? Could happen.
>

I would prefer that just about any large company buy them other than
Lycoming, but Lycoming will do. Unfortunately, these types of deals rarely
happen because the inventor of the "better mousetrap" has no idea how little
the thing is really worth.

The only chance to get a bid out of Lycoming is to let it slip that someone
else (that they feel threatened by) is bidding. Still, those guys are so
conservative, it would take another decade for them to bring it to market.

Take Theilert/Centurion engines. Here is a better mousetrap that could
easily sell $12M worth in the next year if they could just set up a support
network for the US. Likely, the 12M would increase exponentially over the
next 5 years to over $200M. For some reason, the support network isn't
there, and reportedly, Frank wanted an ungodly sum for the aviation part of
his company when investors called. I can't get anyone to tell me what the
real bugaboo is, but it sounds like a lot finger pointing about who should
be responsible for the support.

Hell, they could probably take whatever it costs to build the support
network, double it, and add it to the price of the engines and hardly see a
drop in demand.

[wingsnaprop]

Hey Dude, Could you E-mail me? I think you can 'Glean' my E-mail out
of this header. I tried to E-mail you at but only got
Noah Vail.

Dude,
You sound like a guy that is on top of this subject.
I'd love to drink a beer with you and discuss the future of Compression
Ignition engines in Aviation.

What part of the world are you in ?
Dayton Ohio here.

Jay Markland
Dayton Ohio

"The Dude abides" ( know what that's from?)

[Dude]

"wingsnaprop" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hey Dude, Could you E-mail me? I think you can 'Glean' my E-mail out
> of this header. I tried to E-mail you at but only got
> Noah Vail.
>
> Dude,
> You sound like a guy that is on top of this subject.
> I'd love to drink a beer with you and discuss the future of Compression
> Ignition engines in Aviation.
>
> What part of the world are you in ?
> Dayton Ohio here.
>
> Jay Markland
> Dayton Ohio
>
> "The Dude abides" ( know what that's from?)

Not until I googled it. I kept meaning to see that one, but never did.

You got the benefit of most of what I know. I was all about new technology
a couple of years ago. I did lots of reading and talked to some of the key
players (the aviation world is so small, I think there are only 2 degrees of
seperation). I also learned a bit lurking here. Throw in a .bom education
in venture capital, and even a hard head like me can see what's going on.

We all want new engine technology, but we won't get it until the pain of a
new product is less than the pain of the old one by a large wad of cash.
The only other chance is that someone with REAL money decides to throw a lot
of it at the problem without caring about losing it all and more. Our angel
will need to be wealthy, love prop planes more than his family, and be
patient enough to wait a decade for the FAA to come around to reality.

[MJC]

A couple of things come to mind with your comment.
First of all, from what I understand, Lycoming is already working on
their own design diesel engine. That would be pretty exciting if could
happen in my lifetime but I doubt if it will. I gave up on a large, well
funded aviation engine manufacturer developing a real life available diesel
aircraft engine when TCM dropped the GAP engine program. There is no way in
hell that any viable diesel engine will come to market before I'm old enough
and frail enough to lose my medical.

BUT, you do bring up an interesting scenario whereby Lycoming might look
at the Deltahawk as a good headstart for them and buy them out. Plus, for
all we know, it's entirely possibly that the Deltahawk management never did
have any intention of bringing the DH engine to market in any big way. Maybe
they just milked it along for the sole purpose of being bought out by a mega
company for mucho millions so the principals could retire young and play
with airplanes the rest of their lives. Hey, you never know.
However, even if that were to happen, it would still be 10 years before
we saw the engine AND good FWF kits developed where they would be a viable
alternative to the Lycoming.

MJC

"wingsnaprop" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> All Valid Points. But, build a better mousetrap, ect.......... and,
> What would be your thoughts if Lycoming bought them ? Could happen.
>

[wingsnaprop]

Maybe I'm naive , but I truly believe , from all the input (E-mail)
and The 2 (long) conversations I've had with Doug Doers, that the term
'milking it' is not in his vocabulary. not even close.

What has happened to us as Americans? We used to believe that we could
change the world. now all I hear is .. never happen, not in my
lifetime, its TTTOOOOOOO HARRRD! *WHINE*

While we are whining, these people are DOING IT. You want an FWF Kit?
MAKE A FWF KIT. It's just Metal and rubber and Maybe Some Fiberglass,
And some Good Honest Engineering, it's not BLACK MAGIC. It's not to be
feared. It will get done sooner, rather than later, because of the
Profit Potential and the American Capitalist System.

We don't entirely disagree, but while you say ten years, I say 3
years.

Using COBALT, I've started a FWF (well FWB Cause it's a pusher) design
in CAD For my GlassGoose. The DXF files for the engine is just an easy
and free FTP Away.

[MJC]

As one of those who have been "tracking" Deltahawk and had a delivery
number for quite a while, I can tell you that we were supposed to be able to
buy a real engine almost two years ago. About the time we were to be treated
to available engines, all they did was to do one of their occasional updates
and post drastic price increases on their "anticipated" prices.
I have been a deeply interested observer and follower of Deltahawk for
quite some time (measured in years), so if anyone has a right to suggest the
term "milking it", it is me. I absolutely intended to hang a Deltahawk on my
firewall. I only decided about 2 months ago that Deltahawk was going to keep
leading people on and I realised that if I wanted to fly my RV sometime in
my life, then Lycoming was the only logical choice.
I'll let you dreamers keep wishing and hoping and waiting for the next
website update that does nothing more than tout yet another publication
writing about them. For my part, I'll be flying within 4 months. There is no
way in hell that any Deltahawk will be flying in a real customer's aircraft
within 3 years if at all, and my guess is that the "if at all" part is going
to be explored mightily.

MJC

"wingsnaprop" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Maybe I'm naive , but I truly believe , from all the input (E-mail)
> and The 2 (long) conversations I've had with Doug Doers, that the term
> 'milking it' is not in his vocabulary. not even close.
>
> What has happened to us as Americans? We used to believe that we could
> change the world. now all I hear is .. never happen, not in my
> lifetime, its TTTOOOOOOO HARRRD! *WHINE*
>
> While we are whining, these people are DOING IT. You want an FWF Kit?
> MAKE A FWF KIT. It's just Metal and rubber and Maybe Some Fiberglass,
> And some Good Honest Engineering, it's not BLACK MAGIC. It's not to be
> feared. It will get done sooner, rather than later, because of the
> Profit Potential and the American Capitalist System.
>
> We don't entirely disagree, but while you say ten years, I say 3
> years.
>
> Using COBALT, I've started a FWF (well FWB Cause it's a pusher) design
> in CAD For my GlassGoose. The DXF files for the engine is just an easy
> and free FTP Away.
>