Sailplane production totals for 2004

[Richard Cawsey]

DG Flugzeugbau:
DG-505 (incl. AMS) 5
DG-808 15
DG-1000 17
LS8 2

Scheibe SF 25C Falke 11

Schempp-Hirth:
Discus CS 3
Discus-2 12
Duo Discus 31
Nimbus-4 2
Nimbus-4D 6
Ventus-2a/b 5
Ventus-2c 38

Schleicher:
ASK 21 16
ASW 22 1
ASH 25 8
ASH 26 12
ASW 27 10
ASW 28 31

Eta 1
Lange E1 Antares 7
Stemme S 10-VT 9

Allstar PZL:
SZD-50-3 Puchacz 1
SZD-51-1 Junior 1
SZD-55-1 2
SZD-59 Acro 2

PZL-Swidnik PW-6U 2

AMS Flight:
DG-303 3
Carat A 7

HpH Glasflügel 304C 3

Sportine Aviacija:
LAK-17 12
LAK-19 6

LET:
L-13AC 1
L-23 Super Blanik 1

Aeromot AMT200S Super Ximango 8

Total: 291 (down from 370 in 2003)

Also a few of the following ultralight gliders:
Alisport Silent
AMS Flight Apis
Profe Banjo
TST Alpin

plus any I've missed out. . .


The main countries buying new gliders in 2004 were:
Germany 139
USA 30
Great Britain 21
Switzerland 11
Australia 7
France 7
Canada 4
Japan 4

All these figures are only approximate but should be fairly close to the
right numbers. . .

[Bob Kuykendall]

Very interesting.

If I've parsed the list correctly, 106 of the 291 are two-seaters -
that's about 36 percent of the production total. That seems high to me;
does anybody have historical data regarding the production ratio
between single-seaters and two-seaters? I'm idly wondering if clubs and
academies are perhaps not so much subject to the economic conditions
that seen to be supressing sales to individuals.

It's also interesting to observe:

* The production leader was the Ventus 2c at 38 units

* The production second was the Duo-Discus at 31 units

(hats off to Tilo and the gang)

* Germany accounted for almost 48% of the production total

* The US accounted only about 10% of the production total

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

[Stefan]

What is the source of your numbers?

Stefan

[[email protected]]

You forgot to mention how many PW-5's were produced.

[Mike Lindsay]

In article >, Richard Cawsey
> writes
>DG Flugzeugbau:
>DG-505 (incl. AMS) 5
>DG-808 15
>DG-1000 17
>LS8 2
>
>Scheibe SF 25C Falke 11
>
>Schempp-Hirth:
>Discus CS 3
>Discus-2 12
>Duo Discus 31
>Nimbus-4 2
>Nimbus-4D 6
>Ventus-2a/b 5
>Ventus-2c 38
>
>Schleicher:
>ASK 21 16
>ASW 22 1
>ASH 25 8
>ASH 26 12
>ASW 27 10
>ASW 28 31
>
>Eta 1
>Lange E1 Antares 7
>Stemme S 10-VT 9
>
>Allstar PZL:
>SZD-50-3 Puchacz 1
>SZD-51-1 Junior 1
>SZD-55-1 2
>SZD-59 Acro 2
>
>PZL-Swidnik PW-6U 2
>
>AMS Flight:
>DG-303 3
>Carat A 7
>
>HpH Glasflügel 304C 3
>
>Sportine Aviacija:
>LAK-17 12
>LAK-19 6
>
>LET:
>L-13AC 1
>L-23 Super Blanik 1
>
>Aeromot AMT200S Super Ximango 8
>
>Total: 291 (down from 370 in 2003)
>
>Also a few of the following ultralight gliders:
>Alisport Silent
>AMS Flight Apis
>Profe Banjo
>TST Alpin
>
>plus any I've missed out. . .
>
>
>The main countries buying new gliders in 2004 were:
>Germany 139
>USA 30
>Great Britain 21
>Switzerland 11
>Australia 7
>France 7
>Canada 4
>Japan 4
>
>All these figures are only approximate but should be fairly close to the
>right numbers. . .
>
>
Thanks for hat interesting info. It must have taken a good few hours to
assemble it all.
--
Mike Lindsay

[Nyal Williams]

These are scary numbers; this sport appears to be in
much worse shape than sailing. I'd like to know the
production numbers for stock sailboats above 35ftOA.



At 07:30 14 May 2005, Mike Lindsay wrote:
>In article , Richard Cawsey
> writes
>>DG Flugzeugbau:
>>DG-505 (incl. AMS) 5
>>DG-808 15
>>DG-1000 17
>>LS8 2
>>
>>Scheibe SF 25C Falke 11
>>
>>Schempp-Hirth:
>>Discus CS 3
>>Discus-2 12
>>Duo Discus 31
>>Nimbus-4 2
>>Nimbus-4D 6
>>Ventus-2a/b 5
>>Ventus-2c 38
>>
>>Schleicher:
>>ASK 21 16
>>ASW 22 1
>>ASH 25 8
>>ASH 26 12
>>ASW 27 10
>>ASW 28 31
>>
>>Eta 1
>>Lange E1 Antares 7
>>Stemme S 10-VT 9
>>
>>Allstar PZL:
>>SZD-50-3 Puchacz 1
>>SZD-51-1 Junior 1
>>SZD-55-1 2
>>SZD-59 Acro 2
>>
>>PZL-Swidnik PW-6U 2
>>
>>AMS Flight:
>>DG-303 3
>>Carat A 7
>>
>>HpH Glasfl�gel 304C 3
>>
>>Sportine Aviacija:
>>LAK-17 12
>>LAK-19 6
>>
>>LET:
>>L-13AC 1
>>L-23 Super Blanik 1
>>
>>Aeromot AMT200S Super Ximango 8
>>
>>Total: 291 (down from 370 in 2003)
>>
>>Also a few of the following ultralight gliders:
>>Alisport Silent
>>AMS Flight Apis
>>Profe Banjo
>>TST Alpin
>>
>>plus any I've missed out. . .
>>
>>
>>The main countries buying new gliders in 2004 were:
>>Germany 139
>>USA 30
>>Great Britain 21
>>Switzerland 11
>>Australia 7
>>France 7
>>Canada 4
>>Japan 4
>>
>>All these figures are only approximate but should be
>>fairly close to the
>>right numbers. . .
>>
>>
>Thanks for hat interesting info. It must have taken
>a good few hours to
>assemble it all.
>--
>Mike Lindsay
>

[Michel Talon]

Nyal Williams > wrote:
> These are scary numbers; this sport appears to be in
> much worse shape than sailing. I'd like to know the
> production numbers for stock sailboats above 35ftOA.
>

Yes, these are abolutely horrendous numbers, in particular, the French
number is incredibly low. By comparison, i have found numbers of
sailboats sold by the French group Beneteau-Jeanneau in 2004, around 4500
boats. The German group Bavaria is around 2800 sailing boats, and my document
says that the French production is 30% of the international production.
You can find the document here
http://www.boursorama.com/infos/ipo/poncin/poncin_pp.pdf
around page 45.
If this is not proof that the activity is dying i don't know what a proof is.



--

Michel TALON

[Bruce]

Nyal Williams wrote:
> These are scary numbers; this sport appears to be in
> much worse shape than sailing. I'd like to know the
> production numbers for stock sailboats above 35ftOA.
>
>
><SNIP>

My Std Cirrus came off the production line in October 1970 - it is #57. First
flight of a Std Cirrus was March 1969. I'm not sure when customer deliveries
began but they competed in the worlds in 1969.

Schempp-Hirth were making the Open Cirrus at the same time, but no two seaters.
The Janus only came along in 1974, the SHK had been replaced by the Open Cirrus.
Extrapolating then, total production per year then was < 60 for the current
largest manufacturer.

I know there were a lot more manufacturers then. Schleicher had a bigger range
than Schempp-hirth in 1970, but I wonder how many fewer are being produced in
total. Part of the problem (for the manufacturers) is the durability of glass
gliders. Mine was one of the earlier examples, it has circa 2200 hours on a
12,000 hour airframe. We are on to the third generation of instruments - new
radios, varios, GPSs etc. I try to fly more than 100 hours a year in her, but
barring some serious stupidity or bad luck I expect there will be a couple of
custodians of #57 after I am gone...

So - production has declined somewhat I am sure, and part of that must be the
cost - you can buy a high performance two seater all carbon, certified light
aircraft for less than the cost of a high performance single seater from one of
the top German trio. Many people do...

If cost was all that counted , why are the East Europeans selling so few. Their
bulid quality appears to be good.

But production does not show the whole picture - how many sailplanes are there
in the world, and how much flying do they do? If that is declining then we have
cause for concern. If the manufacturers can find a way to make the cost come
down without losing the desirability we may see more built - look at the
Peregrine, PW6, Sparrowhawk, Apis etc - Lots of new entrants.

Maybe it is not so bad after all.

--
Bruce Greeff
Std Cirrus #57
I'm no-T at the address above.
-+-
\_________0_________/

[Chris]

Not adding to whether the sport is in decline across the world debate,
The figures presented do not show the motorised versions of the
ranges.
You will most likely find that about 90% (guessing here) of V2C's have
engines. The engine installations take a lot longer, obviously, so
that the whole production run is slowed across all aircraft.
Increasing the number of employess = more cost = higher prices and
thats not what the 'want' is of the buying public.
Finding a cheaper way to manufacture is indeed the solution, just look
at all the globals, like Nike and Microsoft (not wanting to single
them out though). They know why they have their production sites in
India and Thailand.
Is this where we could put the production of the gliders that you
place your life into?
Just look at the Duo, it was tried in Czechoslovakia and did not have
the results intended, even though it was working well for the first
few years. It has happened with other gliding manufacturers also, who
have tried to outsource.
So there is a fine line between quality and safety. If you want
something good, you will pay for it. If you just want something, you
will look at the best value for money. How many sales were there of
used gliders during that time? I would think a lot more perhaps than
in previous years. Perhaps that explains the slowdown? (Leaving the
world economies situation completely out of the picture)

Maybe it is a good time to be flying as there are less aircraft up
there than there seem to be boats on the water. :-)

Chris

>
>So - production has declined somewhat I am sure, and part of that must be the
>cost - you can buy a high performance two seater all carbon, certified light
>aircraft for less than the cost of a high performance single seater from one of
>the top German trio. Many people do...
>
>If cost was all that counted , why are the East Europeans selling so few. Their
>bulid quality appears to be good.
>
>But production does not show the whole picture - how many sailplanes are there
>in the world, and how much flying do they do? If that is declining then we have
>cause for concern. If the manufacturers can find a way to make the cost come
>down without losing the desirability we may see more built - look at the
>Peregrine, PW6, Sparrowhawk, Apis etc - Lots of new entrants.
>
>Maybe it is not so bad after all.

[[email protected]]

Some UK gliding figures - may not be entirely accurate, but the trend
must be about right;

Year Full members Gliders Launches Hours km flown

1970 7954 544 329000 78000 170000
1980 10553 1406 387000 124000 654000
1990 10586 2030 452000 170000 1671000
2004 8242 2641 316000 149000 1435000

We have dropped a bit in numbers recently, yet there are more gliders
in operation than ever before, and far more soaring than we used to do
in 1970 when I started. Just how many more gliders could we be
expected to have bought?

Lots of UK clubs are healthier than in 1970, too - the numbers of full
members often included many who had joined and left soon after. (My
club had 200 then, of whom less than half renewed the following year.
These days, about 80 percent of our smaller membership renews.)

2004 km are understated. My club secretary reported the total as
unknown, so 0 got included in the total. I believe the same is true of
some other clubs. There could be anomalies in other figures too, but
not enough to sway the long term trend.

Chris N.

[M B]

I'm astonished that Germany has that
much relative interest.

The guy I finished the glider sport pilot
privilege for is going to Germany for a year.
I told him he is going to have a
FANTASTIC time there gliding...

Yes, this was great info. I hope Schemp Hirth
puts in a design for the next
World Class...it looks like it might
be well sold...

At 07:30 14 May 2005, Mike Lindsay wrote:
>In article , Richard Cawsey
> writes
>>DG Flugzeugbau:
>>DG-505 (incl. AMS) 5
>>DG-808 15
>>DG-1000 17
>>LS8 2
>>
>>Scheibe SF 25C Falke 11
>>
>>Schempp-Hirth:
>>Discus CS 3
>>Discus-2 12
>>Duo Discus 31
>>Nimbus-4 2
>>Nimbus-4D 6
>>Ventus-2a/b 5
>>Ventus-2c 38
>>
>>Schleicher:
>>ASK 21 16
>>ASW 22 1
>>ASH 25 8
>>ASH 26 12
>>ASW 27 10
>>ASW 28 31
>>
>>Eta 1
>>Lange E1 Antares 7
>>Stemme S 10-VT 9
>>
>>Allstar PZL:
>>SZD-50-3 Puchacz 1
>>SZD-51-1 Junior 1
>>SZD-55-1 2
>>SZD-59 Acro 2
>>
>>PZL-Swidnik PW-6U 2
>>
>>AMS Flight:
>>DG-303 3
>>Carat A 7
>>
>>HpH Glasflügel 304C 3
>>
>>Sportine Aviacija:
>>LAK-17 12
>>LAK-19 6
>>
>>LET:
>>L-13AC 1
>>L-23 Super Blanik 1
>>
>>Aeromot AMT200S Super Ximango 8
>>
>>Total: 291 (down from 370 in 2003)
>>
>>Also a few of the following ultralight gliders:
>>Alisport Silent
>>AMS Flight Apis
>>Profe Banjo
>>TST Alpin
>>
>>plus any I've missed out. . .
>>
>>
>>The main countries buying new gliders in 2004 were:
>>Germany 139
>>USA 30
>>Great Britain 21
>>Switzerland 11
>>Australia 7
>>France 7
>>Canada 4
>>Japan 4
>>
>>All these figures are only approximate but should be
>>fairly close to the
>>right numbers. . .
>>
>>
>Thanks for hat interesting info. It must have taken
>a good few hours to
>assemble it all.
>--
>Mike Lindsay
>
Mark J. Boyd

[Frederic FUCHS]

> I'm astonished that Germany has that
> much relative interest.
Many french pilots put their new glider with D- registration ......

Regards,

Frederic
www.planeur.net

[Ian Johnston]

On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:56:46 UTC, "Richard Cawsey"
> wrote:

: plus any I've missed out. . .

PW-5? Centrair? Genesis? All dead?

Ian


--

[Charles Yeates]

Latest Smyk went to a buyer in Austin, TX, and he started flying it over
the past weekend. A B-1 model has just arrived in Vermont.

Ian Johnston wrote:
> On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:56:46 UTC, "Richard Cawsey"
> > wrote:
>
> : plus any I've missed out. . .
>
> PW-5? Centrair? Genesis? All dead?
>
> Ian
>
>

-

[Ged McKnight]

At 08:00 26 May 2005, Frederic Fuchs wrote:
>> I'm astonished that Germany has that
>> much relative interest.
>Many french pilots put their new glider with D- registration
>......

That will be because the garlic eating surrender monkeys
are already bowing to the fact that the NO vote to
the EU will bring the tree lined streets of France
echoing to the Germans who like to march in the shade


>Regards,
>
>Frederic
>www.planeur.net
>
>
>

[Nyal Williams]

At 21:30 30 May 2005, Ged McKnight wrote:
>At 08:00 26 May 2005, Frederic Fuchs wrote:
>>> I'm astonished that Germany has that
>>> much relative interest.
>>Many french pilots put their new glider with D- registration
>>......
>
>That will be because the garlic eating surrender monkeys
>are already bowing to the fact that the NO vote to
>the EU will bring the tree lined streets of France
>echoing to the Germans who like to march in the shade
>

You are a credit to the upbring from your mother.

[Ray Lovinggood]

What about Sparrow Hawk?
Apis?
Silent?
Russia (still in production?)

(I'm sure I would be happy to own and fly any of the
above-listed models! But, since I continue to enjoy
my LS1-d, I'll keep it for awhile longer.)

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina

At 08:00 30 May 2005, Ian Johnston wrote:
>On Fri, 13 May 2005 19:56:46 UTC, 'Richard Cawsey'
>
> wrote:
>
>: plus any I've missed out. . .
>
>PW-5? Centrair? Genesis? All dead?
>
>Ian
>
>
>--
>
>

[sonja]

Can someone supply me with the stuff he is drinking,
smoking or sniffing please, as I need some thing for
my mother in law

[Yurek]

"Ian Johnston" > wrote in message news:<cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-v3Jd0uxcpl79@localhost>...
>
> PW-5? Centrair? Genesis? All dead?
> Ian


Centrair stopped all the glider production, indeed.
This company is now a subcontractor for Airbus and very proud of it...
Yurek

[[email protected]]

Germany has a very easy-going legislation regarding registration and
maintainance of gliders. It's better than France's, and much, much
better than the one in Italy.

Almost everybody in Italy is therefore registering their gliders in
Germany, or even more, many already registered take the burden to
cancel the glider from Italy and sign it over to Germany..

M B wrote:
> I'm astonished that Germany has that
> much relative interest.
>
> The guy I finished the glider sport pilot
> privilege for is going to Germany for a year.
> I told him he is going to have a
> FANTASTIC time there gliding...
>
> Yes, this was great info. I hope Schemp Hirth
> puts in a design for the next
> World Class...it looks like it might
> be well sold...
>
> At 07:30 14 May 2005, Mike Lindsay wrote:
> >In article , Richard Cawsey
> > writes
> >>DG Flugzeugbau:
> >>DG-505 (incl. AMS) 5
> >>DG-808 15
> >>DG-1000 17
> >>LS8 2
> >>
> >>Scheibe SF 25C Falke 11
> >>
> >>Schempp-Hirth:
> >>Discus CS 3
> >>Discus-2 12
> >>Duo Discus 31
> >>Nimbus-4 2
> >>Nimbus-4D 6
> >>Ventus-2a/b 5
> >>Ventus-2c 38
> >>
> >>Schleicher:
> >>ASK 21 16
> >>ASW 22 1
> >>ASH 25 8
> >>ASH 26 12
> >>ASW 27 10
> >>ASW 28 31
> >>
> >>Eta 1
> >>Lange E1 Antares 7
> >>Stemme S 10-VT 9
> >>
> >>Allstar PZL:
> >>SZD-50-3 Puchacz 1
> >>SZD-51-1 Junior 1
> >>SZD-55-1 2
> >>SZD-59 Acro 2
> >>
> >>PZL-Swidnik PW-6U 2
> >>
> >>AMS Flight:
> >>DG-303 3
> >>Carat A 7
> >>
> >>HpH Glasfl=FCgel 304C 3
> >>
> >>Sportine Aviacija:
> >>LAK-17 12
> >>LAK-19 6
> >>
> >>LET:
> >>L-13AC 1
> >>L-23 Super Blanik 1
> >>
> >>Aeromot AMT200S Super Ximango 8
> >>
> >>Total: 291 (down from 370 in 2003)
> >>
> >>Also a few of the following ultralight gliders:
> >>Alisport Silent
> >>AMS Flight Apis
> >>Profe Banjo
> >>TST Alpin
> >>
> >>plus any I've missed out. . .
> >>
> >>
> >>The main countries buying new gliders in 2004 were:
> >>Germany 139
> >>USA 30
> >>Great Britain 21
> >>Switzerland 11
> >>Australia 7
> >>France 7
> >>Canada 4
> >>Japan 4
> >>
> >>All these figures are only approximate but should be
> >>fairly close to the
> >>right numbers. . .
> >>
> >>
> >Thanks for hat interesting info. It must have taken
> >a good few hours to
> >assemble it all.
> >--=20
> >Mike Lindsay
> >
> Mark J. Boyd