Re: Two Lock Rule?

[Robert M. Gary]

As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good to
go.

[kontiki]

NJ is so damn anal. I left that state 27 years ago and never looked back.
I have flown many hours because of the money I've saved in taxes and compliance
with anal NJ laws and regulations.

I know, my reposnse is not very helpful.... hate me.
Just had to get it out of my system. :o)

[Bob Chilcoat]

It's an NJ rule, AFAIK. We put a cable lock around the prop (figure 8
around both blades) before we discovered that the door lock and the mag
switch lock meant we already complied. Even so, we left the prop lock on.
Wouldn't want anyone to bypass the Commanche 400 and the Bonanza and take
our '74 Archer :-).

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
> door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good to
> go.
>

[Steve Foley]

Hangar lock is lock #1.

Prop lock will be lock #2 if/when the rule comes into effect.

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> The airport manager asked me yesterday how I planned to
> comply with the upcoming "two lock rule" to protect my 65hp
> Champ from being stolen by a terrorist and destroying
> Washington. I'm usually reasonably up to date on rule
> changes, but I've been out of the loop for a while, and this
> was a surprise. I'm not even sure if he was referring to a
> state rule (NY) or federal.
>
> Can someone give me some info and steer me to a link or copy
> of this rule? A Google search only turned up an old NJ
> rule, and I saw nothing on AOPA's site.
>
> (By posting this, I'm certain someone will show me how it
> was in front of my nose and I couldn't have missed it, but
> it seems that I have :-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> "It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and
skill."
> Wilbur Wright

[Martin Hotze]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:49:58 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

>My impression from the airport manager was that this
>was a new terrorism inspired rule.

close. it was a government inspired rule.

SCNR,

#m
--
http://www.hotze.priv.at/album/aviation/caution.jpg

[Robert A. Barker]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> The airport manager asked me yesterday how I planned to
> comply with the upcoming "two lock rule" to protect my 65hp
> Champ from being stolen by a terrorist and destroying
> Washington. I'm usually reasonably up to date on rule
> changes, but I've been out of the loop for a while, and this
> was a surprise. I'm not even sure if he was referring to a
> state rule (NY) or federal.
>
> Can someone give me some info and steer me to a link or copy
> of this rule? A Google search only turned up an old NJ
> rule, and I saw nothing on AOPA's site.
>
> (By posting this, I'm certain someone will show me how it
> was in front of my nose and I couldn't have missed it, but
> it seems that I have :-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> "It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and
> skill."
> Wilbur Wright

I am located at KLWM (Lawrence Mass) and the
airport manager has requested two locks.I have a prop lock and the keyed
mag switch.I am not sure if this is a hard and fast rule or just a request.I
have noticed most
have added prop locks.

Bob Barker N8749S

[Peter Clark]

On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:47:42 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> wrote:

>The airport manager asked me yesterday how I planned to
>comply with the upcoming "two lock rule" to protect my 65hp
>Champ from being stolen by a terrorist and destroying
>Washington. I'm usually reasonably up to date on rule
>changes, but I've been out of the loop for a while, and this
>was a surprise. I'm not even sure if he was referring to a
>state rule (NY) or federal.

It could be local, each airport seems to have their own requirements.

Perhaps one of these-like things:

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=3570

and a bike-chain and padlock around the prop would suffice.

[Dave S]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> "Steve Foley" > wrote:
>
>
>>Hangar lock is lock #1.
>>
>>Prop lock will be lock #2 if/when the rule comes into effect.
>
>
> Do you have info that such a rule is coming into effect? I
> had planned to chain the tail to the back of the hangar.
>
>
That would meet the requirments..

Dave

[Robert M. Gary]

Don't you pull your prop through before you turn on the mags? I usually
pulled it through 7 blades to losen the oil and then 3 more to prime it
(after adding fuel). Then mags on and a small turn will fire it up.

-Robert

[Ron Natalie]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
> The airport manager asked me yesterday how I planned to
> comply with the upcoming "two lock rule" to protect my 65hp
> Champ from being stolen by a terrorist and destroying
> Washington. I'm usually reasonably up to date on rule
> changes, but I've been out of the loop for a while, and this
> was a surprise. I'm not even sure if he was referring to a
> state rule (NY) or federal.
>
At the DC-3 it's required you either be in a locked hangar or
have a prop lock on the plane. Dave Wartofsky just went out
and got a bunch of Kryptonite (generally regarded as the most
over-hyped and insecure bicycle lock in production) to allow
owners to comply with the rules.

[Doug Vetter]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
> door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good to
> go.

NJ indeed has the "2-lock rule".

However, in typical NJ fashion, some airport owners have taken it upon
themselves to add two locks to that rule. Our 172 has door and key
locks. That should be enough. It's also in a locked hangar. But they
also demand we use a prop lock -- and if they survey our hangar and find
the airplane without the prop lock installed, they have the right to
kick us out.

I really need to start looking for property in another state...

-Doug

--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[RST Engineering]

40 acres, 3500 square foot house, 2000 square foot heated garage, heated
workshop, horse corral, hangar, private airport. $350K asking price. Hanna
WY.


Jim




"Doug Vetter" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
>> door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good to
>> go.
>
> NJ indeed has the "2-lock rule".
>
> However, in typical NJ fashion, some airport owners have taken it upon
> themselves to add two locks to that rule. Our 172 has door and key locks.
> That should be enough. It's also in a locked hangar. But they also
> demand we use a prop lock -- and if they survey our hangar and find the
> airplane without the prop lock installed, they have the right to kick us
> out.
>
> I really need to start looking for property in another state...
>
> -Doug
>
> --------------------
> Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA
>
> http://www.dvcfi.com
> --------------------

[[email protected]]

Peter Clark wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 14:47:42 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t
> > wrote:
>
> >The airport manager asked me yesterday how I planned to
> >comply with the upcoming "two lock rule" to protect my 65hp
> >Champ from being stolen by a terrorist and destroying

>
> Perhaps one of these-like things:
>
> http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=3570

The Champ I flew didn't have a standard panel-mounted push-pull
throttle,
such as which would fit those kind of throttle locks.
It had a lever-style throttle on the left side cabin wall.

[Greg Farris]

>
>"It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill."
>Wilbur Wright


Poor Wilbur has been proven wrong in recent days.

[Greg Farris]

In article >, says...
>
>
>NJ is so damn anal. I left that state 27 years ago and never looked back.
>I have flown many hours because of the money I've saved in taxes and
compliance
>with anal NJ laws and regulations.
>
>I know, my reposnse is not very helpful.... hate me.
>Just had to get it out of my system. :o)
>


If you look at those comparison websites, designed to find tha best places to
live, NJ keeps coming up as one of the lowest taxed states, with a high ratio
of quality of services to tax rate.

G Faris

[Slick]

A lock on the door of your hangar and a throttle lock would suffice.
"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 16 May 2005 15:49:58 -0400, T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
>
> >My impression from the airport manager was that this
> >was a new terrorism inspired rule.
>
> close. it was a government inspired rule.
>
> SCNR,
>
> #m
> --
> http://www.hotze.priv.at/album/aviation/caution.jpg



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[George Patterson]

Greg Farris wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
>>
>>NJ is so damn anal. I left that state 27 years ago and never looked back.
>>I have flown many hours because of the money I've saved in taxes and
>
> compliance
>
>>with anal NJ laws and regulations.
>>
>>I know, my reposnse is not very helpful.... hate me.
>>Just had to get it out of my system. :o)
>
> If you look at those comparison websites, designed to find tha best places to
> live, NJ keeps coming up as one of the lowest taxed states, with a high ratio
> of quality of services to tax rate.

Interesting. NJ has a 6% sales tax on everything but clothing and a 6.5% income
tax. I'm sure that's low in comparison to some places, but most States are
lower. The license for my baby pickup costs over $75 every year. A driver's
license is more than $25 for 4 years. You will also find that every service
(such as telephone, water, etc.) has a hidden surcharge. The Federal and State
taxes on my phone service cost more than the basic service does. If one were
able to add in the cost of the various kickbacks and other hidden penalties,
you'd see a different picture, though I'd bet NJ would compare very well to the
Chicago area.

Kontiki is also correct about the regulations. You need a permit for just about
anything. The paperwork involved means that someone who moves here from, say,
Tennessee will probably drop a few of their hobbies due to lack of time to get
the necessary licenses.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[George Patterson]

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
>
> No door key, no mag key for my Champ (just like the one used
> in the bank robbery). I'm in a locked hangar though. My
> impression from the airport manager was that this was a new
> terrorism inspired rule. I presumed that meant it was
> federal, but I suppose it might have been NY state.

Well, if it turns out that you have to comply, check with John Price. He had to
work out something for his L-3. IIRC, it involved some sort of jerry-rig with a
lock he picked up at Home Depot. It locks the door but required no modifications
to the aircraft.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Gene Seibel]

1. Card operated gate
2. Hangar door lock
3. Airplane mag switch

Guess I could also lock the airplane door if necesary. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html#security
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Greg Farris]

In article <iOoie.6695$_f7.2717@trndny01>, says...

>Interesting. NJ has a 6% sales tax on everything but clothing and a 6.5%
income
>tax. I'm sure that's low in comparison to some places, but most States are
>lower. The license for my baby pickup costs over $75 every year. A driver's
>license is more than $25 for 4 years. You will also find that every service
>(such as telephone, water, etc.) has a hidden surcharge. The Federal and
State
>taxes on my phone service cost more than the basic service does. If one were
>able to add in the cost of the various kickbacks and other hidden penalties,
>you'd see a different picture, though I'd bet NJ would compare very well to
the
>Chicago area.
>


Funny - the "best places to live" sites list the income tax at 2.something,
which is one of their strong reasons for giving the state such high marks!
They also rate education and median income highly, as well as - believe it or
not - air and water quality!

G Faris

[Blueskies]

Short length of padded chain locked around the propeller hub?


"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote in message
...
> "Slick" > wrote:
>
>>A lock on the door of your hangar and a throttle lock would suffice.
>
> My Champ doesn't have a needle type throttle, and AFAIK,
> there's no easy way to fit a throttle lock.
>
> "It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill."
> Wilbur Wright

[George Patterson]

Greg Farris wrote:
>
> Funny - the "best places to live" sites list the income tax at 2.something,

They are roughly 20 years out of date. It was 3.5% when I moved here, but Florio
jacked it to something like 8% back around '87. It got reduced to the current
level under Whitman about 10 years ago.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Don Hammer]

So you land at TEB with your Gulfstream. Since they have a door lock
only, the FBO installs a Denver Boot-type device on the nose wheels.

Typical government crap. Anyone intent on stealing a jet can surely
stop by the local Depot and pick up some bolt cutters.


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[AES]

In article >,
Don Hammer > wrote:

> So you land at TEB with your Gulfstream. Since they have a door lock
> only, the FBO installs a Denver Boot-type device on the nose wheels.
>
> Typical government crap. Anyone intent on stealing a jet can surely
> stop by the local Depot and pick up some bolt cutters.

Some years ago, thinking about the problem of bike theft on our
university campus (generally local teenagers with small bolt cutters, or
outsiders coming in with a U-Haul truck), I "invented" the fiber optic
lock: small rugged sealed metal box with a keypad, a few ICs inside, and
an attached fiber optic pigtail of any desired length coming out whose
other end plugs into a receptacle on the same box.

Gives essentially zero physical protection; but once the fiber is
wrapped around something and plugged back in and the gadget is armed by
keying in a lock code, it starts sending optical pulses around the loop,
thru the fiber, and disconnecting or cutting the fiber without keying in
an unlock code will either (depending on how the gadget is designed and
set up):

* Set off audible alarm inside the (in this case somewhat larger)
lock gadget itself.

* Wirelessly trigger either an audible alarm somewhere close by
(e.g., under a hangar roof) or a silent but flashing warning light
visible to others (e.g, on the hangar roof)

* Wirelessly signal a detection unit in a nearby location (bike owners
campus office, airport tower, nearby police station)

The electronics would always have been trivial to implement for an
undergrad IC circuit designer; the needed fiber optics components are
now at the Radio Shack level; and the remote signalling would be
trivial with Wi-Fi or Bluetooth technology. The point to alarm
signalling rather than physical protection is to, depending on your
choice, scare off the bad guys, and/or know its happening immediately,
and/or alert someone who might catch 'em. The reasons for a fiber optic
rather than electrical wrap-around cable/signal loop are (a) these days,
very cheap and very low power consumption; (b) impossible to tell from
looking or "sniffing" if fiber is actually armed and carrying a signal;
(c) impossible for even a sophisticated thief to "scrape off the
insulation" and bypass the signals in the fiber cable loop.

Hmmm -- maybe I should be going into business.

[RST Engineering]

> The electronics would always have been trivial to implement for an
> undergrad IC circuit designer; the needed fiber optics components are
> now at the Radio Shack level; and the remote signalling would be
> trivial with Wi-Fi or Bluetooth technology.

I won't argue what RF technology would be best for remote signalling. I
argue that small current loops (on the order of microamperes) is much more
efficient of power AND money than optics. I'm not really sure how you
"scrape off the insulation" when the "wire" can be the chain (or better yet,
cable) itself.

Jim

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> I won't argue what RF technology would be best for remote signalling. I
> argue that small current loops (on the order of microamperes) is much more
> efficient of power AND money than optics. I'm not really sure how you
> "scrape off the insulation" when the "wire" can be the chain (or better
> yet, cable) itself.

I think the point is that with a regular conductor, the signal can simply be
rerouted very easily, assuming someone knows that there's a signal to be
rerouted. Fiber optic makes the job a LOT harder (and probably out of the
skillset of the random person looking to steal an airplane).

You could try to address signal rerouting by monitoring not just its
presence, but other characteristics (voltage or current, for example), and
assume that minor changes are evidence of someone rerouting the signal. But
then the alarm is much more sensitive to things that aren't related to
someone trying to break the lock.

Certainly if you were going to use a physical restraint to conduct a signal,
you'd want cable, not chain. Too much likelihood of one chain link becoming
briefly out of contact with another and breaking the signal, resulting in a
false alarm.

It seems to me that there are enough issues with a electrical conductor,
that fiber optic isn't a bad way to go at all.

Of course, all of this assumes that applying additional locks to an airplane
satisfies a basic cost/benefit analysis, which I think is far from being a
foregone conclusion.

Pete

[AES]

In article >,
"RST Engineering" > wrote:

> > The electronics would always have been trivial to implement for an
> > undergrad IC circuit designer; the needed fiber optics components are
> > now at the Radio Shack level; and the remote signalling would be
> > trivial with Wi-Fi or Bluetooth technology.
>
> I won't argue what RF technology would be best for remote signalling. I
> argue that small current loops (on the order of microamperes) is much more
> efficient of power AND money than optics. I'm not really sure how you
> "scrape off the insulation" when the "wire" can be the chain (or better yet,
> cable) itself.

My argument would be that if the wire is a current loop and is
physically accessible (and of course if the protected item is valuable
enough) a moderately competent thief can literally shave the insulation
off the side of the wire with a razor blade or Exacto knife; attach a
longer bypass wire that doesn't encircle the protected goods with a
couple of alligator clips; snip the original wire; and be home free.

This might fail -- that is, the alarm might still go off -- if the
electrical signals in the wire are high frequency enough, or the
measurement of the impedance of the wire itself, or the capacitance from
wire to ground, is sensitive enough, or . . .

But if you're using techniques that sophisticated, then the alarm is
also likely to be triggered by temperature changes, or by some large
object going by (a fork lift in a hangar), or by EMF from a nearby radio
or computer, or by . . .

A fiber loop would (in my judgment) be much less sensitive to all of the
above problems, and I believe the optical source, detector, and fiber
technology involved is now really cheap and simple.

As for the power consumption question, well, I have an optical mouse on
my desk that's been in use (putting out a lot of light, as well as
communicating constantly with the Bluetooth adaptor on my laptop) for
8-10 hours/day for many weeks now, and never turned off 24/7, on just a
couple of AA batteries.

[nrp]

AES -

If you aren't going into business - somebody should. I think it is a
neat idea although it would need a way to detect that the electronic
box is being crunched or shot at etc etc.

Cool------

[RST Engineering]

The easy way to do that is with a positive signal system. That is, the
little transmitter chirps once every couple of seconds when things are
"good". When it stops chirping (batteries low, shot, crunched, or alarm
triggered) you light the alarm fuse.

Jim




"nrp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> AES -
>
> If you aren't going into business - somebody should. I think it is a
> neat idea although it would need a way to detect that the electronic
> box is being crunched or shot at etc etc.
>
> Cool------
>

[AES]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:

>
> You could try to address signal rerouting by monitoring not just its
> presence, but other characteristics (voltage or current, for example), and
> assume that minor changes are evidence of someone rerouting the signal. But
> then the alarm is much more sensitive to things that aren't related to
> someone trying to break the lock.
>

Thanks -- my point exactly, and better said.

[AES]

In article . com>,
"nrp" > wrote:

> AES -
>
> If you aren't going into business - somebody should. I think it is a
> neat idea although it would need a way to detect that the electronic
> box is being crunched or shot at etc etc.
>
> Cool------

Thanks!

One could also get more complicated and have the lock and the remote
system in continuous wireless communication, to make sure the lock is
still intact -- but then there are more ways for the false alarm rate to
go up.

[Brian]

Good plan, I once was pulling mine through with the mags off, on the
3rd pull it fired and sat there idling.
I went back to cockpit and the mags were still in the off position.

Always treat it like it is loaded!!!.

Brian

[George Patterson]

RST Engineering wrote:
> The easy way to do that is with a positive signal system. That is, the
> little transmitter chirps once every couple of seconds when things are
> "good". When it stops chirping (batteries low, shot, crunched, or alarm
> triggered) you light the alarm fuse.

That's not very expandable. If the system gets popular, you'd need lots of
frequencies; otherwise your alarm might fail to sound when your item is stolen
because someone else close by is on the same frequency.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Morgans]

"George Patterson" > wrote

> That's not very expandable. If the system gets popular, you'd need lots of
> frequencies; otherwise your alarm might fail to sound when your item is
stolen
> because someone else close by is on the same frequency.

Nah, yah gotta think digital. It has to be chirping your digital code, not
just frequencies.
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

Then you chirp a digital code. A simple 16 bit code gives you 64K discrete
addresses. Ain't that many airplanes on the field at Oshkosh at one time.

Jim


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:EPTie.9665$E05.6247@trndny09...
> RST Engineering wrote:
>> The easy way to do that is with a positive signal system. That is, the
>> little transmitter chirps once every couple of seconds when things are
>> "good". When it stops chirping (batteries low, shot, crunched, or alarm
>> triggered) you light the alarm fuse.
>
> That's not very expandable. If the system gets popular, you'd need lots of
> frequencies; otherwise your alarm might fail to sound when your item is
> stolen because someone else close by is on the same frequency.
>
> George Patterson
> "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
> got
> no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Grumman-581]

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:iOoie.6695$_f7.2717@trndny01...
> If one were able to add in the cost of the various kickbacks
> and other hidden penalties, you'd see a different picture, though
> I'd bet NJ would compare very well to the Chicago area.

Hmmmm... Comparing a toxic waste dump to a cesspool... Quite appropriate...

[private]

One of the better hangar stories I have heard involved an aircraft that had
just been flown and pushed back into the hangar. The mags were off and fuel
valve was in the off position. The hangar door was closed. The tires were
not chocked. As the pilot was leaving he moved the prop to the horizontal
(or vertical?) position. The pilot was standing in front of the prop. The
engine fired and the pilot was pinned against the door and placed his hand
on the spinner to stop the aircraft from moving forward until the engine ran
out of vapor.

It did not seem impossible to me but could be urban legend?


"Brian" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Good plan, I once was pulling mine through with the mags off, on the
> 3rd pull it fired and sat there idling.
> I went back to cockpit and the mags were still in the off position.
>
> Always treat it like it is loaded!!!.
>
> Brian
>

[Roger]

On Thu, 19 May 2005 00:20:04 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"George Patterson" > wrote
>
>> That's not very expandable. If the system gets popular, you'd need lots of
>> frequencies; otherwise your alarm might fail to sound when your item is
>stolen
>> because someone else close by is on the same frequency.
>
>Nah, yah gotta think digital. It has to be chirping your digital code, not
>just frequencies.

And when you get two on the same frequency is it possible for one to
swamp the other. If you use something like WiFi to set off an alarm,
or call home, that's different as the networking *should* take care of
collissions and multiple systems can coexist on the same frequency.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[RST Engineering]

http://www.theroopouch.com/house_airport.htm



Tell them I sent you. They've offered me (unsolicited) a 5% finders fee.
I'll either split the fee with you or we can donate the whole thing to EAA
Young Eagles. Your call



Jim




"Tom Fleischman" > wrote in
message
news:2005052117531616807%bodhijunkoneeightyeightju nkatmacdotcom@junkjunk...
> On 2005-05-16 20:29:52 -0600, "RST Engineering" >
> said:
>
>> 40 acres, 3500 square foot house, 2000 square foot heated garage, heated
>> workshop, horse corral, hangar, private airport. $350K asking price.
>> Hanna WY.
>
>
> Where can I get more information about THAT!!??
>
>

[George Patterson]

Tom Fleischman wrote:
>
> Where can I get more information about THAT!!??

Head over to Google and check out two threads in R.A.O. on the subject, both
started by Jim. Here's part of one that may give you some incentive.

"Here are photos of the place I told you about that is up for grabs.

http://www.theroopouch.com/house_airport.htm

If I had 350K, I'd buy it in a pair of seconds."

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[W P Dixon]

> Yeppers,
I'd like that myself but I am finding myself about 349,996 dollars
short right now......just waiting for my rich Uncle to get out of the poor
house ;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


> http://www.theroopouch.com/house_airport.htm
>
> If I had 350K, I'd buy it in a pair of seconds."
>
> George Patterson
> "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
> got
> no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
> door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good
to
> go.

We had a J-3 Cub in New Jersey. It was in the hangar, so we got a
propeller lock. Our airport manager requires that all airplanes have
prop-locks. They are provided by the airport for about $40.

....richie

[Cub Driver]

On 21 May 2005 19:58:45 -0700, wrote:

>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
>> door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good
>to
>> go.
>
>We had a J-3 Cub in New Jersey. It was in the hangar, so we got a
>propeller lock. Our airport manager requires that all airplanes have
>prop-locks. They are provided by the airport for about $40.

I'd heard that in New Jersey, the fact that a Cub has no starter
satisfied the first lock, so all you needed was a lock on the door, a
prop lock, or a locked hangar door. Not so?


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Newps]

George Patterson wrote:

> Tom Fleischman wrote:
>
>>
>> Where can I get more information about THAT!!??
>
>
> Head over to Google and check out two threads in R.A.O. on the subject,
> both started by Jim. Here's part of one that may give you some incentive.
>
> "Here are photos of the place I told you about that is up for grabs.
>
> http://www.theroopouch.com/house_airport.htm
>
> If I had 350K, I'd buy it in a pair of seconds."



You'll notice it's still for sale. There's a reason for that.

[Matt Whiting]

Newps wrote:

>
>
> George Patterson wrote:
>
>> Tom Fleischman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Where can I get more information about THAT!!??
>>
>>
>>
>> Head over to Google and check out two threads in R.A.O. on the
>> subject, both started by Jim. Here's part of one that may give you
>> some incentive.
>>
>> "Here are photos of the place I told you about that is up for grabs.
>>
>> http://www.theroopouch.com/house_airport.htm
>>
>> If I had 350K, I'd buy it in a pair of seconds."
>
>
>
>
> You'll notice it's still for sale. There's a reason for that.

Yes, ever been in that area in the winter?
:-)

Matt

[Dave Stadt]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > As far as I know only NJ has such a rule. My Champ had a key for the
> > door and another key for the mags. If yours is the same, you're good
> to
> > go.
>
> We had a J-3 Cub in New Jersey. It was in the hangar, so we got a
> propeller lock. Our airport manager requires that all airplanes have
> prop-locks. They are provided by the airport for about $40.
>
> ...richie

And you guys talk about 'ole Dick Daley and his bag of unethical tricks.

[Newps]

Matt Whiting wrote:

>>
>>
>> You'll notice it's still for sale. There's a reason for that.
>
>
> Yes, ever been in that area in the winter?

I'm very familiar with the terrain and the weather as I live north of
there and we have the same conditions. The only thing of value on that
land is the buildings. The real estate listings in our paper as well as
most papers in Montana and Wyoming have thousands upon thousands of
listings for land like this. The land itself is worth $200-300 per acre.

[[email protected]]

Cub Driver wrote:

[...]

>
> I'd heard that in New Jersey, the fact that a Cub has no starter
> satisfied the first lock, so all you needed was a lock on the door, a
> prop lock, or a locked hangar door. Not so?
>

Our airport manager insisted on a prop-lock, in addition to a hangar.

....richie

[George Patterson]

Newps wrote:
>
> You'll notice it's still for sale. There's a reason for that.

Yeah. Mr. Dixon hasn't looked at it yet. :-)

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[George Patterson]

Cub Driver wrote:
>
> I'd heard that in New Jersey, the fact that a Cub has no starter
> satisfied the first lock, so all you needed was a lock on the door, a
> prop lock, or a locked hangar door. Not so?

That's not the way it was explained to me. The law reads two locks, and my
understanding is that that's what you have to have.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[George Patterson]

Dave Stadt wrote:
>
> And you guys talk about 'ole Dick Daley and his bag of unethical tricks.

You ever priced one of those locks? Forty dollars is cheap, and, if the airport
is the one I think it is (3N6), you get the money back when you turn the lock in
if you take the plane elsewhere. Besides, nobody forces you to buy it from the
airport -- there's always Aircraft Spruce.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Dave Stadt]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:63ake.19285$E05.2397@trndny09...
> Dave Stadt wrote:
> >
> > And you guys talk about 'ole Dick Daley and his bag of unethical tricks.
>
> You ever priced one of those locks? Forty dollars is cheap, and, if the
airport
> is the one I think it is (3N6), you get the money back when you turn the
lock in
> if you take the plane elsewhere. Besides, nobody forces you to buy it from
the
> airport -- there's always Aircraft Spruce.
>
> George Patterson
> "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
got
> no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

There's always another airport.

[George Patterson]

Dave Stadt wrote:
>
> There's always another airport.

Well, the nearest ones to 3N6 would be about an hour's drive, and not a fun
drive either. Allaire or Central Jersey, take your choice. A tiedown at Allaire
will cost you nearly $40 a month more than Old Bridge. The lock's cheaper in a
not very long run.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[W P Dixon]

It's hard to imagine land worth 200-300 an acre anymore isn't it? I would
probably freeze to death up there, heck TN is plenty cold enough for me! But
I would love to have alot of land, enough for an airstrip and all. Hard to
find here!!! And hey! Just holding out for my Uncle!!!!;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:X_9ke.19283$E05.11626@trndny09...
> Newps wrote:
>>
>> You'll notice it's still for sale. There's a reason for that.
>
> Yeah. Mr. Dixon hasn't looked at it yet. :-)
>
> George Patterson
> "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
> got
> no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Matt Barrow]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "George Patterson" > wrote in message
> news:63ake.19285$E05.2397@trndny09...
> > Dave Stadt wrote:
> > >
> > > And you guys talk about 'ole Dick Daley and his bag of unethical
tricks.
> >
> > You ever priced one of those locks? Forty dollars is cheap, and, if the
> airport
> > is the one I think it is (3N6), you get the money back when you turn the
> lock in
> > if you take the plane elsewhere. Besides, nobody forces you to buy it
from
> the
> > airport -- there's always Aircraft Spruce.
> >
> > George Patterson
> > "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you
ain't
> got
> > no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.
>
> There's always another airport.

Buying your own lock is a lot cheaper than buying another airport.

[Grumman-581]

"W P Dixon" wrote in message ...
> It's hard to imagine land worth 200-300 an acre anymore isn't it?

There's some like that in West Texas... You usually have to buy a pretty
good amount of it for that price... A couple of thousand acres...

[W P Dixon]

I've been in west Texas, .25 an acre would be far to much to pay! :) They'd
have to pay me to take it!!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
news:X0jke.33455$796.28049@attbi_s21...
> "W P Dixon" wrote in message ...
>> It's hard to imagine land worth 200-300 an acre anymore isn't it?
>
> There's some like that in West Texas... You usually have to buy a pretty
> good amount of it for that price... A couple of thousand acres...
>
>

[Skylune]

This is an important national security topic, despite what that moron Phil
Boyer says.

I understand that Sporty's is now selling bicycle locks that you can
install on the propeller to keep it from turning.

Just make sure to add, unlock the prop to your pre-flight checklist,
otherwise, there could be serious damage to your airplane's propeller.

[Andrew Gideon]

Skylune wrote:

> This is an important national security topic, despite what that moron Phil
> Boyer says.

Because locks always stop criminals.

- Andrew

[Dave Stadt]

"Skylune" > wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
> This is an important national security topic, despite what that moron Phil
> Boyer says.

Troll

[Peter Duniho]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Skylune" > wrote in message
> lkaboutaviation.com...
>> [nothing interesting]
>
> Troll

Now you're getting it. :)

[Morgans]

"Skylune" > wrote
>
> I understand that Sporty's is now selling bicycle locks that you can
> install on the propeller to keep it from turning.
>
> Just make sure to add, unlock the prop to your pre-flight checklist,
> otherwise, there could be serious damage to your airplane's propeller.

I would *think* that to miss the lock, you would have to had skipped the
preflight part about checking the condition of the prop? <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"T o d d P a t t i s t" > wrote

> OTOH, there's some risk that with
> a prop chain, the engine could be accidentally started if
> the prop is bumped or repositioned by a third party and the
> mag was bumped on or failed. In the Champ, it's a
> non-locking mag with a fairly large paddle lever. Beyond
> that, I just don't like fooling around with the prop until
> I'm absolutely ready to start.

Exactly the reason that Aviation Explorers, working at OSH assisting pilots
with homebuilt parking and retrieval are absolutely forbidden to push or
pull on a prop.

Everyone keep that in mind, in the homebuilt sections. If you want the
plane pushed by the prop, you will have to be the one to do it. Also, they
will ask where you want them to place their hands to push. Help them out,
if you will, please.

Thanks,
--
Jim in NC