Pee tube system for ASW-27

[KP]

Hi All
Like to install a relief tube system in my ASW-27 and looking for some
ideas.

Ken (KP)

[Glen Kelley]

Hi,

I have a system in my PIK-20 that works very well. I installed a brass tube
that has the appropriate ID to slip over a carbon fiber aerrow shaft. I
drilled a hole in the fuselage floor behind the stick and through the
outside of the aircraft. I then epoxied the brass tube in the hole and cut
to be flush on the bottom of the aircraft and the seat floor. One end of
the arrow shaft is cut at a slant to create suction in the airstream. The
other end of the arrow shaft is glued into a model airplane fuel bulb (looks
like a turkey baster bulb, but has a much smaller opening at the bottom.
You will have to size the arrow shaft so that you can insert into the brass
tube with the canopy closed. In my ship, this results in an arrow shaft
that is 20" long. The rear of the fuel bulb has a hole cut in it to provide
a friction fit (seal) around your willie.

When done, I flush it with a little water put a piece of paper towel in the
opening, and stow the assembly. Oh, And I use a bit of mylar over the exit
hole so that the hole is sealed unless the arrow shaft pushes the mylar out
of the way.

Works great - no muss, no fuss, no catheters and no yellow stains anywhere
on my ship.

Glen Kelley
"KP" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi All
> Like to install a relief tube system in my ASW-27 and looking for some
> ideas.
>
> Ken (KP)
>

[bumper]

I did a similar system on my ASH26e. Be aware that tubular composite kite
spar material is available in many nesting diameters. So you don't have to
use a brass or other metal outer tube. A larger composite tube is both
lighter and will glass in better. The you can use a smaller kite spar tube
for the stiff pee tube to extend out.

If the larger tube is installed at an angle aft, then there's no need to cut
the end of the extended tube at an angle to insure suction.

If the larger tube ends at the seat pan, and in an area that's hard to see
due to the seat cushion (like just aft of the stick), then you can install a
guide "V" to make it easy to install the smaller extension tube in flight. I
did this using a V made of stainless steel welding rod fixed to the seat pan
with some UHMW polyethylene tape.

If there's interest, I can post some pictures to the glider forum on this.

bumper
"Glen Kelley" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I have a system in my PIK-20 that works very well. I installed a brass
> tube that has the appropriate ID to slip over a carbon fiber aerrow shaft.
> I drilled a hole in the fuselage floor behind the stick and through the
> outside of the aircraft. I then epoxied the brass tube in the hole and
> cut to be flush on the bottom of the aircraft and the seat floor. One end
> of the arrow shaft is cut at a slant to create suction in the airstream.
> The other end of the arrow shaft is glued into a model airplane fuel bulb
> (looks like a turkey baster bulb, but has a much smaller opening at the
> bottom. You will have to size the arrow shaft so that you can insert into
> the brass tube with the canopy closed. In my ship, this results in an
> arrow shaft that is 20" long. The rear of the fuel bulb has a hole cut in
> it to provide a friction fit (seal) around your willie.
>
> When done, I flush it with a little water put a piece of paper towel in
> the opening, and stow the assembly. Oh, And I use a bit of mylar over the
> exit hole so that the hole is sealed unless the arrow shaft pushes the
> mylar out of the way.
>
> Works great - no muss, no fuss, no catheters and no yellow stains anywhere
> on my ship.
>
> Glen Kelley
> "KP" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Hi All
>> Like to install a relief tube system in my ASW-27 and looking for some
>> ideas.
>>
>> Ken (KP)
>>
>
>

[Avron]

bumper wrote:
>
> If there's interest, I can post some pictures to the glider forum on
this.
>

Please do.

[BB]

The factory installs a pee tube by drilling a hole in the seat pan just
behind the stick. They route the tube to the right aft landing gear
door. Find a 27 with the factory option installed and you'll see one
system that works for sure.

John Cochrane

[BB]

The factory installs a pee tube by drilling a hole in the seat pan just
behind the stick. They route the tube to the right aft landing gear
door. Find a 27 with the factory option installed and you'll see one
system that works for sure.

John Cochrane

[[email protected]]

John,

Sorry to say the factory installation does not work for the following
reasons:
1. The tube comes through the seat pan under the right thigh not in
the center. This causes the tube to be crushed so that flow is
restricted.
2. The tube running down the right side then into the gear well and
onto the aft end of the right gear door has two uphill points ( or high
points ). The Germans must have great nossel pressure. The
corresponding low points leave liquid in the tube with air in between.
The suction created by the tube at the gear door never removes all the
fluid. This requires a pretty good liquid pressure to move the low
point liquid and air out. This can cause a "blow off" of the condom
and if one uses a funnel, it has to be held up close to the top of the
pannel.
Tom
Idaho
BB wrote:
> The factory installs a pee tube by drilling a hole in the seat pan
just
> behind the stick. They route the tube to the right aft landing gear
> door. Find a 27 with the factory option installed and you'll see one
> system that works for sure.
>
> John Cochrane

[Udo Rumpf]

I had a 27 type system in my first glider and I agree it does not work well.
In my second glider I went straight down with a larger guide tube
and a smaller one to slide in and out, which worked much better.
In my third iteration, which happens to be an ASW24, I use the same
approach but with improvements.

First a guide tube, having an even bent starting flush at the seat pan
and 90 deg. to the contour of the seat pan.
The hole is at the 4 o'clock position at the stick opening of the seat pan.
It clears the thigh even when the knees are tight together against the
instrument column.
The radius of the guide tube is such that the telescoping tube exist the
bottom of the belly at about a 20-25 deg. angle. The inner tube
(telescoping) continues to make a curve free of the guide tube and points
almost back wards when the glider is not flying.
When flying I am sure it will point back. The tube, in that position on the
ground,
is about 5" from belly skin. When retracted the belly is nice and flush.
The system works well with a bulb type funnel and catheter.
After a five day contest there will be some residue but no intrusion into
the
gear well. There is no streaking hence no fluid running along the skin.
From the catheter I hook directly to the quick disconnect from there a short
latex tube for max flex without kinking, and then onto the stiffer tube of
about 10"
It all can be retracted if desired.
Regards
Udo



> wrote in message
ups.com...
> John,
>
> Sorry to say the factory installation does not work for the following
> reasons:
> 1. The tube comes through the seat pan under the right thigh not in
> the center. This causes the tube to be crushed so that flow is
> restricted.
> 2. The tube running down the right side then into the gear well and
> onto the aft end of the right gear door has two uphill points ( or high
> points ). The Germans must have great nossel pressure. The
> corresponding low points leave liquid in the tube with air in between.
> The suction created by the tube at the gear door never removes all the
> fluid. This requires a pretty good liquid pressure to move the low
> point liquid and air out. This can cause a "blow off" of the condom
> and if one uses a funnel, it has to be held up close to the top of the
> pannel.
> Tom
> Idaho
> BB wrote:
>> The factory installs a pee tube by drilling a hole in the seat pan
> just
>> behind the stick. They route the tube to the right aft landing gear
>> door. Find a 27 with the factory option installed and you'll see one
>> system that works for sure.
>>
>> John Cochrane
>

[BB]

My factory pee tube works great. You have to route it correctly under
the seat pan if you take the seat pan out for an annual. If you install
a t that lets air into the system, you can blow out any remaining
liquid.

John Cochrane

[bumper]

"Avron" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> bumper wrote:
>>
>> If there's interest, I can post some pictures to the glider forum on
> this.
>>
>
> Please do.
>

Okay, I posted some pics to the glider forum. Look in albums by "bumper"
/relief system. Or try:

http://www.gliderforum.com/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=128

all the best,

bumper

[Andy Blackburn]

At 04:30 19 May 2005, Bumper wrote:

>Okay, I posted some pics to the glider forum. Look
>in albums by 'bumper'
>/relief system.

Anybody ever run water with colored vegetable dye through
one of these to see where the fluid actually goes?
I've heard stories of pee getting sucked back into
the rudder bellcranks and hinges with highly corrosive
effect.

I just carry a couple of medical leg bags behind my
right elbow and dump them when I get back on the ground
The are very tough, well-sealed vinyl - no muss, no
fuss.

9B

[bumper]

Yup, that's the way to do it. I mix up a fairly strong solution of food
coloring and water and dump ballast to be sure nothing gets on the fuselage
or tail wheel area.

bumper
"Andy Blackburn" > wrote in message
...
> At 04:30 19 May 2005, Bumper wrote:
>
>>Okay, I posted some pics to the glider forum. Look
>>in albums by 'bumper'
>>/relief system.
>
> Anybody ever run water with colored vegetable dye through
> one of these to see where the fluid actually goes?
> I've heard stories of pee getting sucked back into
> the rudder bellcranks and hinges with highly corrosive
> effect.
>
> I just carry a couple of medical leg bags behind my
> right elbow and dump them when I get back on the ground
> The are very tough, well-sealed vinyl - no muss, no
> fuss.
>
> 9B
>
>
>

[Marc Ramsey]

Andy Blackburn wrote:
> Anybody ever run water with colored vegetable dye through
> one of these to see where the fluid actually goes?

No need for dye, just use the real thing...

> I've heard stories of pee getting sucked back into
> the rudder bellcranks and hinges with highly corrosive
> effect.

I used the factory through the floor pee-tube system in my DG-101 for
one season, the belly developed a nice stain all the way back to the
tail, and the next annual found corrosion on both the CG hook and the
rudder bellcranks. I switched over to a leg bag the next season.

The suggested solutions here, however, are using much longer rigid
tubes, in an effort dump the fluid farther out in the air stream. This
may well work...

> I just carry a couple of medical leg bags behind my
> right elbow and dump them when I get back on the ground
> The are very tough, well-sealed vinyl - no muss, no
> fuss.

For me, the problem with bags is that I have experienced a fairly
significant rate of failure. If things aren't going my way, the bag
will simply refuse to admit fluid, typically with amusing results...

Marc

[Glen Kelley]

FWIW, I have had the rudder off the hinges and the tailwheel out of its
bracket. No yellow stains anywhere. The rigid tube is sticking at least
14" below the belly of the aircraft.

I especially like not having to wear a catheter, yet still having a positive
seal.

Glen
"Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message
. ..
> Andy Blackburn wrote:
>> Anybody ever run water with colored vegetable dye through
>> one of these to see where the fluid actually goes?
>
> No need for dye, just use the real thing...
>
>> I've heard stories of pee getting sucked back into
>> the rudder bellcranks and hinges with highly corrosive
>> effect.
>
> I used the factory through the floor pee-tube system in my DG-101 for one
> season, the belly developed a nice stain all the way back to the tail, and
> the next annual found corrosion on both the CG hook and the rudder
> bellcranks. I switched over to a leg bag the next season.
>
> The suggested solutions here, however, are using much longer rigid tubes,
> in an effort dump the fluid farther out in the air stream. This may well
> work...
>
>> I just carry a couple of medical leg bags behind my
>> right elbow and dump them when I get back on the ground
>> The are very tough, well-sealed vinyl - no muss, no
>> fuss.
>
> For me, the problem with bags is that I have experienced a fairly
> significant rate of failure. If things aren't going my way, the bag will
> simply refuse to admit fluid, typically with amusing results...
>
> Marc

[Eric Greenwell]

Glen Kelley wrote:
> FWIW, I have had the rudder off the hinges and the tailwheel out of its
> bracket. No yellow stains anywhere. The rigid tube is sticking at least
> 14" below the belly of the aircraft.

The amount of extension needed may vary from glider to glider. 8" has
proven sufficient on my ASH 26, and that's short enough that I can just
retract it until flush, and not have to remove it entirely. The bulb
just lies off to the side, so I don't have to find a place to store it,
and it's bit quicker and less distracting to use without the need to
insert it first.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Andy Blackburn]

At 16:00 20 May 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:

>8' has proven sufficient on my ASH 26, and that's short
>enough that I can just
>retract it until flush, and not have to remove it entirely.
>

Sounds painful - and I'm not sure everyone has 8' to
work with.

9B

[Eric Greenwell]

Andy Blackburn wrote:
> At 16:00 20 May 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>
>>8' has proven sufficient on my ASH 26, and that's short
>>enough that I can just
>>retract it until flush, and not have to remove it entirely.
>>
>
>
> Sounds painful - and I'm not sure everyone has 8' to
> work with.

Just what kind of people are they letting into gliders these days?! Why,
when I was a young'un....

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Jack]

"Sounds painful - and I'm not sure everyone has 8' to
work with.

9B "

Apparently, not a Texan...

Jack Womack
AZ

[Papa3]

I use the "tube-within-a-tube" model with good results:

- Two different diameters of semi-rigid polyethylene tubing
- Outer tube glassed into fuselage bottom (turned a small flange out of
thin plywood steamed to match curvature of fuselage, epoxied tube into
flange, then glassed whole thing into fuselage - just to be sure)
- Nested (inside) tube can be extended about 8"-10" into slipstream
- About 18" of flexible rubber tubing connects inside tube to catheter,
allowing you to stay "hooked up" for the entire flight

I had the rudder off this fall for some tail ballast mods, and there is zero
corrosion on the tailwheel or rudder hardware. Same for the main gear.
Plus, it drains completly due to the orientation of the tubes (ie. no sags
to promote pooling).

Only trick is to remember to retract the tube prior to landing.
Otherwise, you get a literal demonstration of the term "stepping on it."

P3 (or should I say Pee3)


"Andy Blackburn" > wrote in message
...
> At 04:30 19 May 2005, Bumper wrote:
>
>>Okay, I posted some pics to the glider forum. Look
>>in albums by 'bumper'
>>/relief system.
>
> Anybody ever run water with colored vegetable dye through
> one of these to see where the fluid actually goes?
> I've heard stories of pee getting sucked back into
> the rudder bellcranks and hinges with highly corrosive
> effect.
> >
> 9B
>
>
>

[Tim Mara]

look at my web page (copied from Aeox)
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page35.htm and the flow charts for even normal
constant flow systems (using Oxysaver cannulas) will show you over 46 hours
usage at 10,000'....and over 25 hours at 15,000'
all without using any electronic devices....the advantage (small) of the EDS
is that you don't need to set the flow rates manually to get these higher
durations.but the simple and reliable constant flow systems cost under 1/2
as much as the electronic systems and are simple and can easily fit all the
components )(less bottle size of your choice) into a large sandwich bag!
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at:
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
...
> Glen Kelley wrote:
>> FWIW, I have had the rudder off the hinges and the tailwheel out of its
>> bracket. No yellow stains anywhere. The rigid tube is sticking at least
>> 14" below the belly of the aircraft.
>
> The amount of extension needed may vary from glider to glider. 8" has
> proven sufficient on my ASH 26, and that's short enough that I can just
> retract it until flush, and not have to remove it entirely. The bulb just
> lies off to the side, so I don't have to find a place to store it, and
> it's bit quicker and less distracting to use without the need to insert it
> first.
>
> --
> Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> Eric Greenwell
> Washington State
> USA

[Tim Mara]

"Tim Mara" > wrote in message
...
look at my web page (copied from Aeox)
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page35.htm and the flow charts for even
normal
constant flow systems (using Oxysaver cannulas) will show you over 46 hours
usage at 10,000'....and over 25 hours at 15,000'
all without using any electronic devices....the advantage (small) of the
EDS
is that you don't need to set the flow rates manually to get these higher
durations.but the simple and reliable constant flow systems cost under 1/2
as much as the electronic systems and are simple and can easily fit all the
components )(less bottle size of your choice) into a large sandwich bag!
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at:
www.wingsandwheels.com

>