SiO2 (Ceramic wax) on sailplanes ?

[MMOORE]

The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?

It is a silica

[Jay Campbell]

On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-5, MMOORE wrote:
> The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
>
> It is a silica
No first-hand knowledge, but 3M makes a product for boats. In general, if 3M makes a product, it is the best of all of its competitors. No dog in that particular hunt, but as I contemplate another round of hard wax (and hard work) while we are between seasons, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a great alternative especially as to ease of application. Anyone knowledgeable, please chime in. Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat. Caveat: info says it is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone and I remember hearing once that silicone can sometimes interfere with fiberglass repairs. What say you, group?

[MMOORE]

On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 10:06:03 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-5, MMOORE wrote:
> > The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
> >
> > It is a silica
> No first-hand knowledge, but 3M makes a product for boats. In general, if 3M makes a product, it is the best of all of its competitors. No dog in that particular hunt, but as I contemplate another round of hard wax (and hard work) while we are between seasons, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a great alternative especially as to ease of application. Anyone knowledgeable, please chime in. Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat. Caveat: info says it is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone and I remember hearing once that silicone can sometimes interfere with fiberglass repairs. What say you, group?

I used this on my car recently, its slick, shiny and low work. Could it be this easy for a glass ship ?
https://www.meguiars.com/ingredients/20735

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, 7 January 2021 at 23:19:11 UTC, MMOORE wrote:
> The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
> It is a silica

SiO2 is silica, the main ingredient of sand and also of quartz.
"Silicones" names a class of substances containing the element Silicon (amongst others), which are commonly used as polishes. They are sometimes a component of "Ceramic Wax".

I am no expert on composite repairs, but the conjunction of "fibreglass" or "gel-coat" with "silicone" rings alarm bells for me!
J.

[Dennis Cavagnaro]

On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 11:53:21 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thursday, 7 January 2021 at 23:19:11 UTC, MMOORE wrote:
> > The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
> > It is a silica
> SiO2 is silica, the main ingredient of sand and also of quartz.
> "Silicones" names a class of substances containing the element Silicon (amongst others), which are commonly used as polishes. They are sometimes a component of "Ceramic Wax".
>
> I am no expert on composite repairs, but the conjunction of "fibreglass" or "gel-coat" with "silicone" rings alarm bells for me!
> J.

I used a meguiars wax spray Ceramic and am very happy with the results. Works differently then silicones.

DC

[[email protected]]

On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 17:20:57 UTC, wrote:
> I used a meguiars wax spray Ceramic and am very happy with the results. Works differently then silicones.

Nobody is questioning the efficacy, either on cars or on gliders.
My warning was about difficulties with subsequent repairs on fibreglass or gelcoat (as in gliders).
But I could be wrong. You may feel it's worth the risk. Or you could take the advice of your local friendly glider repairer!
J.

[Dan Marotta]

On 1/8/21 8:06 AM, Jay Campbell wrote:
> On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-5, MMOORE wrote:
>> The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
>>
>> It is a silica
> No first-hand knowledge, but 3M makes a product for boats. In general, if 3M makes a product, it is the best of all of its competitors. No dog in that particular hunt, but as I contemplate another round of hard wax (and hard work) while we are between seasons, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a great alternative especially as to ease of application. Anyone knowledgeable, please chime in. Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat. Caveat: info says it is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone and I remember hearing once that silicone can sometimes interfere with fiberglass repairs. What say you, group?
>

Not this particular product, but I use a spray on wipe off product on my
Stemme. I'm very happy with the ease of application.

Oh, and Fidel says he can repair anything no matter what has been
previously applied. I believe him. His hangar is back to back with
mine and I've seen him work.

--
Dan
5J

[MQ]

On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 11:57:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> On 1/8/21 8:06 AM, Jay Campbell wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-5, MMOORE wrote:
> >> The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
> >>
> >> It is a silica
> > No first-hand knowledge, but 3M makes a product for boats. In general, if 3M makes a product, it is the best of all of its competitors. No dog in that particular hunt, but as I contemplate another round of hard wax (and hard work) while we are between seasons, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a great alternative especially as to ease of application. Anyone knowledgeable, please chime in. Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat. Caveat: info says it is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone and I remember hearing once that silicone can sometimes interfere with fiberglass repairs. What say you, group?
> >
> Not this particular product, but I use a spray on wipe off product on my
> Stemme. I'm very happy with the ease of application.
>
> Oh, and Fidel says he can repair anything no matter what has been
> previously applied. I believe him. His hangar is back to back with
> mine and I've seen him work.
>
> --
> Dan
> 5J
Dan

Fidel says that about silicone or anything that inhibits adhesion for a repair while holding up an imaginary angle grinder. If he is repairing your spoiler tops or a control surface it just changes to scuffing that whole surface etc. to ensure a good repair and gelcoat adhesion. If it is for your fuselage, this could and has (for him and others) turned into a bit more of a nightmare scenario with gelcoat not adhering for much larger surface area parts.

Dan's hangar is front-to-front with mine and somehow we both endure. We can all hear those angle grinders going on the ship repairs...currently that is my new ship amongst the others.

Geoff
MQ -> 5C

[2G]

On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 11:27:10 AM UTC-8, MQ wrote:
> On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 11:57:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > On 1/8/21 8:06 AM, Jay Campbell wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-5, MMOORE wrote:
> > >> The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
> > >>
> > >> It is a silica
> > > No first-hand knowledge, but 3M makes a product for boats. In general, if 3M makes a product, it is the best of all of its competitors. No dog in that particular hunt, but as I contemplate another round of hard wax (and hard work) while we are between seasons, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a great alternative especially as to ease of application. Anyone knowledgeable, please chime in. Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat. Caveat: info says it is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone and I remember hearing once that silicone can sometimes interfere with fiberglass repairs. What say you, group?
> > >
> > Not this particular product, but I use a spray on wipe off product on my
> > Stemme. I'm very happy with the ease of application.
> >
> > Oh, and Fidel says he can repair anything no matter what has been
> > previously applied. I believe him. His hangar is back to back with
> > mine and I've seen him work.
> >
> > --
> > Dan
> > 5J
> Dan
>
> Fidel says that about silicone or anything that inhibits adhesion for a repair while holding up an imaginary angle grinder. If he is repairing your spoiler tops or a control surface it just changes to scuffing that whole surface etc. to ensure a good repair and gelcoat adhesion. If it is for your fuselage, this could and has (for him and others) turned into a bit more of a nightmare scenario with gelcoat not adhering for much larger surface area parts.
>
> Dan's hangar is front-to-front with mine and somehow we both endure. We can all hear those angle grinders going on the ship repairs...currently that is my new ship amongst the others.
>
> Geoff
> MQ -> 5C

I have used this product on my ASH31Mi:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gtechniq-Crystal-Serum-Light-ceramic-composite-coating-the-best-paint-protection/246865152

Here is an AOPA video about ceramic coatings:

https://aopalive.aopa.org/detail/video/6032367519001/ceramic-coating-to-restore-aircraft-finish

This a video on how to apply it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64dZX4Ujdr8

Tom

[2G]

On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 9:33:15 PM UTC-8, 2G wrote:
> On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 11:27:10 AM UTC-8, MQ wrote:
> > On Friday, January 8, 2021 at 11:57:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > > On 1/8/21 8:06 AM, Jay Campbell wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 6:19:11 PM UTC-5, MMOORE wrote:
> > > >> The new SiO2 spray on/buff off waxes for cars are amazing. Anyone use this on glass sailplanes ?
> > > >>
> > > >> It is a silica
> > > > No first-hand knowledge, but 3M makes a product for boats. In general, if 3M makes a product, it is the best of all of its competitors. No dog in that particular hunt, but as I contemplate another round of hard wax (and hard work) while we are between seasons, I'm wondering if this wouldn't be a great alternative especially as to ease of application. Anyone knowledgeable, please chime in. Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat. Caveat: info says it is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone and I remember hearing once that silicone can sometimes interfere with fiberglass repairs.. What say you, group?
> > > >
> > > Not this particular product, but I use a spray on wipe off product on my
> > > Stemme. I'm very happy with the ease of application.
> > >
> > > Oh, and Fidel says he can repair anything no matter what has been
> > > previously applied. I believe him. His hangar is back to back with
> > > mine and I've seen him work.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dan
> > > 5J
> > Dan
> >
> > Fidel says that about silicone or anything that inhibits adhesion for a repair while holding up an imaginary angle grinder. If he is repairing your spoiler tops or a control surface it just changes to scuffing that whole surface etc. to ensure a good repair and gelcoat adhesion. If it is for your fuselage, this could and has (for him and others) turned into a bit more of a nightmare scenario with gelcoat not adhering for much larger surface area parts.
> >
> > Dan's hangar is front-to-front with mine and somehow we both endure. We can all hear those angle grinders going on the ship repairs...currently that is my new ship amongst the others.
> >
> > Geoff
> > MQ -> 5C
> I have used this product on my ASH31Mi:
>
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gtechniq-Crystal-Serum-Light-ceramic-composite-coating-the-best-paint-protection/246865152
>
> Here is an AOPA video about ceramic coatings:
>
> https://aopalive.aopa.org/detail/video/6032367519001/ceramic-coating-to-restore-aircraft-finish
>
> This a video on how to apply it:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64dZX4Ujdr8
>
> Tom

Also, here is an article about it in AOPA magazine:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/april/pilot/ownership-get-your-gloss-on

Ceramic coatings should not be confused with silicone-based waxes - they are two different beasts.

Tom

[Chris Runeckles]

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 2:26:47 AM UTC+8, wrote:
> On Friday, 8 January 2021 at 17:20:57 UTC, wrote:
> > I used a meguiars wax spray Ceramic and am very happy with the results. Works differently then silicones.
> Nobody is questioning the efficacy, either on cars or on gliders.
> My warning was about difficulties with subsequent repairs on fibreglass or gelcoat (as in gliders).
> But I could be wrong. You may feel it's worth the risk. Or you could take the advice of your local friendly glider repairer!
> J.
There is a difference between Silica ( Silicon) and Silicone do not confuse the two.
I have been Using 3M Cleaner and Wax a marine product to protect my gliders for many years it works well and seems to protect the surface, I own a Ventus2 CXa that is now 10 years old and is showing no signs of the Dreaded Gellcoat failure.
3M also make a restorer and wax is which is similar but a bit more cutting compound for rejuvenation of flat gell coat.
Chris Runeckles
Western Australian Sailplane products

[Soartech]

> Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat.
This product is NOT a ceramic or silicon dioxide product. No mention of it!

[Mark Mocho]

On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:28:47 PM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
> > Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat.
> This product is NOT a ceramic or silicon dioxide product. No mention of it!

From the Details page on 3M Perfect-it:

"The polish, which is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone....."

Interpret that however you want.

[Nicholas Kennedy]

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 6:05:05 AM UTC-7, Mark Mocho wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:28:47 PM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
> > > Here's a link to the product. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/search/?Ntt=SiO2+polishes+for+gelcoat.
> > This product is NOT a ceramic or silicon dioxide product. No mention of it!
> From the Details page on 3M Perfect-it:
>
> "The polish, which is suitable for environments not sensitive to silicone....."
>
> Interpret that however you want.

[Nicholas Kennedy]

3M Perfect-it:

I used this stuff above on my LS3a last spring and it was easy to use, messy thou, My plane definitely turned a whiter shade of white. Keep a spray waterbottle handy as you don't want to let it go dry on you. I used a 6" electric buffer.
On mistake I made was I did it all inside my garage and the stuff got everywhere, at least it wipes off with a wet cloth and elbow grease. Won't do it inside again.
Well worth the effort IMHO, planning on doing it again this spring.
Nick
T