Airports that have oxygen

[Doug Levy]

Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
>
Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
behind the pilot. From Mountain High.

You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Mark Grubb]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> > Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
> >
> Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
> 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
> behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
>
> You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
> Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
> Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Mark Grubb]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> > Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
> >
> Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
> 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
> behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
>
> You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
> Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
> Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1


Mountain Valley, Tehachapi, CA. $15.00/Fill

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 11:20:31 AM UTC-8, Mark Grubb wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> > > Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
> > >
> > Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
> > 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
> > behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
> >
> > You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
> > Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
> > Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
> >
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> Mountain Valley, Tehachapi, CA. $15.00/Fill\

if you are an AOPA member, you can try using the facility directory search function here: https://www.aopa.org/destinations/

I typed in "Nevada, USA", checked the "public use" and "oxygen" boxes and when I hit search I got a map of Nevada showing airports listing oxygen services. I would call ahead to check.

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

Siskiyou County Airport, Craggy Aero.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 3:46:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 11:20:31 AM UTC-8, Mark Grubb wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> > > > Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
> > > >
> > > Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
> > > 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
> > > behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
> > >
> > > You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
> > > Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
> > > Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> > > - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> > Mountain Valley, Tehachapi, CA. $15.00/Fill\
>
> if you are an AOPA member, you can try using the facility directory search function here: https://www.aopa.org/destinations/
>
> I typed in "Nevada, USA", checked the "public use" and "oxygen" boxes and when I hit search I got a map of Nevada showing airports listing oxygen services. I would call ahead to check.

How about a simple search for medical O2? Might be easier and cheaper...could be a medical supply house or similar...

[Scott Ashton]

> >
> > I typed in "Nevada, USA", checked the "public use" and "oxygen" boxes and when I hit search I got a map of Nevada showing airports listing oxygen services. I would call ahead to check.
> How about a simple search for medical O2? Might be easier and cheaper...could be a medical supply house or similar...

This is a vexing problem and we are working on a database of airports with confirmed oxygen service. Part of the problem too is that there is no one available at the FBO to fill if it’s a weekend and the people behind the counter really don’t know at most FBOs. Best to try an industrial gas supplier like Linde rather than medical. Most medical O2 houses require a prescription....

A two bottle cascade is a great option at the hangar too....

Scott

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> > Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
> >
> Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
> 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
> behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
>
> You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
> Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
> Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

Parowan Aero Services FBO used to have a Oxygen recompressor to top up those high PSI composite bottles, and a water bath to keep the bottle cool while doing that.

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

It has been my experience that Medical Oxygen requires a prescription.

Most Welding Gas supply businesses have ABO Aviators breathing Oxygen no prescription required and can fill a bottle.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Darryl Ramm wrote on 2/23/2021 7:02 PM:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
>>> Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
>>>
>> Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
>> 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
>> behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
>>
>> You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
>> Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
>> Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
>>
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>
> Parowan Aero Services FBO used to have a Oxygen recompressor to top up those high PSI composite bottles, and a water bath to keep the bottle cool while doing that.
>
Unfortunately, the high pressure pump system stopped working several years ago, and Dave did
not have it repaired. I sort of recall him saying very few people had the high pressure
bottles, once the Germans stopped coming with their gliders.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Mark Mocho]

Remember that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between medical, welding and aviators oxygen. It is all produced by liquefaction and comes out of the same pipe. Once the use is defined, the price and availability changes by the liability incurred by the provider. Welding O2 is the cheapest, because of the fact that it is not "intended" for human consumption. "Aviators Breathing Oxygen" is often delivered at slightly higher pressure (2,200 psi vs. 1,800 or 2,000 psi) but costs more, as the "primary" cylinder must be emptied and purged by the supplier prior to refilling. A "Lot Number" must also be recorded for each primary cylinder refill. This does not apply to individual use cylinders like the ones we use in our gliders. Medical Oxygen costs the most (liability again), usually requires a Doctor's prescription and is rarely available for general non-medical use. Carrying a simple transfiller adapter can sometimes get you a refill at a welding shop, but the simplest method is to just carry a spare cylinder and transfiller so you can refill your glider cylinder. You should also have the specifications on your glider cylinder and delivery system, meaning you should know how long your supply will last at your maximum expected altitude and available pressure. For example, a 415 liter (14.7 cu ft) cylinder at 2216 psi will deliver 12.3 man/hours of oxygen at 15,000 ft MSL using a Mountain High EDS delivery system. The same system will provide approximately half the duration if it only has 1,100 psi. If you are using a standard straight cannula or face mask with constant flow, you only have 4.0 hours at 15,000 ft MSL. Know your equipment!

BTW, oxygen refills are available at Moriarty, NM through Sundance Aviation..

[George Haeh]

At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.

On a sunny day below 18,000, or in a heated cabin welding oxygen seems to be OK.

[Mike Hendron]

We offer oxygen fills in Nephi through the Utah Soaring Association. Event participants or affiliate members ($25) able to get fills for a fee ($20-30), limited membership ($175) includes unlimited fills.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
>
> My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.

Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 8:01:58 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Darryl Ramm wrote on 2/23/2021 7:02 PM:
> > On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >> Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
> >>> Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?
> >>>
> >> Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
> >> 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
> >> behind the pilot. From Mountain High.
> >>
> >> You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
> >> Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
> >> Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> >> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >
> > Parowan Aero Services FBO used to have a Oxygen recompressor to top up those high PSI composite bottles, and a water bath to keep the bottle cool while doing that.
> >
> Unfortunately, the high pressure pump system stopped working several years ago, and Dave did
> not have it repaired. I sort of recall him saying very few people had the high pressure
> bottles, once the Germans stopped coming with their gliders.
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

Thanks Eric, that is sad. The Germans need to come back :-) I used to get my big kevlar wrapped cylinder filler there to high PSI. With EDS it was great.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Darryl Ramm wrote on 2/24/2021 1:03 AM:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
>> At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
>>
>> My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
>
> Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.
>
Ditto; also, welders do not want contaminants in their welding gases because people's lives can
depend on the strength of their welds. And imagine what would happen to the insides of a steel
welding bottle with high pressure water vapor in it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Tango Whisky]

The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.

Le mercredi 24 février 2021 Ã* 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écritÂ*:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
> >
> > My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
> Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.

[Doug Levy]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:19:34 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
> The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
> On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.
> Le mercredi 24 février 2021 Ã* 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écrit :
> > On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > > At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
> > >
> > > My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
> > Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.


Thanks for all the responses. I only have room for one oxygen bottle in my Phoenix motor glider. Last year my trips were several weeks long with no well-planned destinations. Many days were spent with hours above 12 k. I had days where I had to motor, keeping below 10 k just to get more oxygen.
To add to the problem is not having ground transportation after landing to get to a welding shop. Last year while flying past Salt Lake City I talked to another glider pilot on the radio that told me oxygen was only available to club members at Nephi. I ended up landing at Provo to get a refill only to be told later that oxygen service was $140. They are used to supplying business jets. I talked to the manager who only charged me $40.
Haven't been to Moriarity yet but good to know they have oxygen. Hoping to find more airports with it.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Doug Levy wrote on 2/24/2021 9:12 AM:
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:19:34 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
>> The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
>> On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.
>> Le mercredi 24 février 2021 à 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écrit :
>>> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
>>>> At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
>>>>
>>>> My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
>>> Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.
>
>
> Thanks for all the responses. I only have room for one oxygen bottle in my Phoenix motor glider. Last year my trips were several weeks long with no well-planned destinations. Many days were spent with hours above 12 k. I had days where I had to motor, keeping below 10 k just to get more oxygen.
> To add to the problem is not having ground transportation after landing to get to a welding shop. Last year while flying past Salt Lake City I talked to another glider pilot on the radio that told me oxygen was only available to club members at Nephi. I ended up landing at Provo to get a refill only to be told later that oxygen service was $140. They are used to supplying business jets. I talked to the manager who only charged me $40.
> Haven't been to Moriarity yet but good to know they have oxygen. Hoping to find more airports with it.
>
Since you have room for only one bottle, make it a HUGE one! This one fits fine in my Phoenix
(I can send you a picture, if you wish):

CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi, 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb

Pricey, but it lasts 3+ times as long as the common 14 cf aluminum cylinders, and often cheaper
to fill, because some places charge a flat fill fee instead of by the cf. It might save you a
lot frustration, too.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[John Good]

> Hoping to find more airports with it.

The airport listings on airnav.com have a section on available services, including oxygen service. So this can help you find airports that offer oxygen (though it would probably be smart to call ahead).

This will not avoid the issue you found at Provo: FBOs like the idea of selling $3 worth of oxygen and 20 minutes of labor for $100+ - and bizjets will pay this.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Tango Whisky wrote on 2/24/2021 5:19 AM:
> The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter.

My welding supply place says they evacuate oxygen cylinders before filling them, because even a
cylinder that still has pressure in it can be accidentally back-filled with some other gas in
normal use. That was to explain why the fill fee is the same, regardless of how much pressure
the bottle had when I gave it to them.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[kinsell]

On 2/24/21 2:03 AM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
>> At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
>>
>> My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
>
> Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.
>

Medical oxygen is frequently humidified on purpose, but it's done
outside of of the high-pressure cylinder. Maybe that's the confusion.

Concerning Parowan, years ago I was there with a cylinder and regulator
rated for 3000 psi, so I asked for the high pressure fillup.

Worked fine until a few thousand feet in the air, the regulator failed
and blew apart the low-pressure line that started whipping around the
cockpit. Had visions of being another Richard Pryor until I managed to
stick the tubing out the window, then get the oxygen shut off.

Sometimes fixing one problem creates a bigger one in its place.

-Dave

[kevin anderson]

Also Technical dive shops can do oxygen fill. We have a local shop in Maryville TN that will do a fill, cheap, and easy.

Kevin
92

[Dan Marotta]

On safari we carry a trans-fill hose and rent a bottle at the local gas
supplier. For less than $50 many gliders can fill up for a week. The
hose was the expensive part but I found a hose with pressure gauge at a
veterinary supply house at an extremely good price.

Dan
5J

On 2/23/21 8:55 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
> It has been my experience that Medical Oxygen requires a prescription.
>
> Most Welding Gas supply businesses have ABO Aviators breathing Oxygen no prescription required and can fill a bottle.
>
> Richard
> www.craggyaero.com
>

[Darryl Ramm]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:19:34 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
> The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
> On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.
> Le mercredi 24 février 2021 Ã* 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écrit :
> > On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > > At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.
> > >
> > > My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
> > Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.

I don't understand specific concerns about -30C or flight above a certain altitude. If there was a water contamination problem folks would often be having problems at lower altitudes anywhere around freezing temp. Or do you use ABO at all altitudes? Lots of gliders fly in wave in cold conditions using welding oxygen and how many are falling out of the sky or having problems with oxygen supply. I'm aware of not one case of moisture contamination in a glider oxygen system. Does anybody know of one? I'm aware of shattering cannula tubes because of the cold, and all the usual stupidity of not running on cylinder valves, or taking off with low pressure or not knowing how to operate O2 systems etc...and fires during transfilling glider oxygen... all those stories and not one about moisture contamination. Many many places at least in the USA that refill oxygen for gliders use industrial oxygen.... and the number of problems are???

Refillers should be pumping down oxygen cylinders prior to refilling. It's in the fill procedure for suppliers I've talked with. They know how critical low contaminants including water are with industrial gases, and they don't want to be compressing >2,000 psi oxygen with some potential mystery gas. If the valve is open they may want to inspect the cylinder for corrosion. You can always ask your local refiller what they do. Lots of folks are going to tell you you need medical grade for medical and AVO for aviation, in the best case they might they *think* there is a safety reason or might think they would be in trouble for supplying you with industrial oxygen, or they might just want to charge you more money.

I think it must be time to talk about the dangers of sanding corrosion off lift pins...

[glidergeek]

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:38:04 AM UTC-8, Doug Levy wrote:
> Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?

Doug I've got O2 at L26 anytime I'm here .