Ground Operations, Margins, and Safety

[Papa3[_2_]]

I'm sure Ryszard will chime in here with more info, but there was an accident during the seniors yesterday that resulted in serious leg injuries to the pilot. It was bad enough that he was flown by helicopter to a trauma center.

"This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site as we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.

“V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery."

Schweizers with their "training wheels" are very forgiving, but ships like Greta and the LS4 are not. Couple of things we need to do:

- Always assume the next glider to be launched will lose control at the start of tow. How much clear space do we have? Golf cart? Parked cars? Other gliders?

- As far as the pilot is concerned, if you drop the wing, just release immediately. Don't try to "save it". It's not worth it.

There's a lot more to this topic; probably worth addressing at the annual Safety Meeting. Suffice to say I think we are all getting complacent (me included) with our clear area/margins and need to get back to some hard-and-fast rules about keeping the launch area clear and safe.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 9:15:10 AM UTC-6, Papa3 wrote:
> I'm sure Ryszard will chime in here with more info, but there was an accident during the seniors yesterday that resulted in serious leg injuries to the pilot. It was bad enough that he was flown by helicopter to a trauma center.
>
> "This is what happened to Tom Johnson. V12. One of our club members is Tom’s partner in the Mini-Nimbus. He posted this on our email site as we are all anxious to hear about Tom’s status.
>
> “V12 has a CG hook which is less directionally stable during the initial takeoff. Apparently the left wing dropped to the ground maybe due to propwash from the towplane. The left wingtip on the ground turned the glider about 30 degrees to the East where it departed the runway, crossed the service road and collided with a truck that one of the other contestants had parked next to the runway in violation of contest procedures. The glider submarined the body of the truck.”
> Please keep Tom in your prayers a quick recovery, and full recovery."
>
> Schweizers with their "training wheels" are very forgiving, but ships like Greta and the LS4 are not. Couple of things we need to do:
>
> - Always assume the next glider to be launched will lose control at the start of tow. How much clear space do we have? Golf cart? Parked cars? Other gliders?
>
> - As far as the pilot is concerned, if you drop the wing, just release immediately. Don't try to "save it". It's not worth it.
>
> There's a lot more to this topic; probably worth addressing at the annual Safety Meeting. Suffice to say I think we are all getting complacent (me included) with our clear area/margins and need to get back to some hard-and-fast rules about keeping the launch area clear and safe.
Also keep photographers out of harm's way. We winch launch and like to keep areas ahead of the leading edge of the staged glider clear of objects and persons in case of an unplanned excursion. Same applies to aerotow.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

Hey Erik,

You posted on RAS rather than the club group as you probably intended.

All the best,
Daniel

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 11:37:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hey Erik,
>
> You posted on RAS rather than the club group as you probably intended.
>
> All the best,
> Daniel

So I did. Still applies.

[Dgtarmichael]

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:43:48 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 11:37:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Hey Erik,
> >
> > You posted on RAS rather than the club group as you probably intended.
> >
> > All the best,
> > Daniel
> So I did. Still applies.

Whenever I someone states or writes, "release immediately if you drop a wing." I cringe.
This is well intentioned but bad advise. If your wing touches the ground, the horses have already fled the barn! You must release before the wing touches the ground as a best practice because, while some types will let you get away with it under some conditions there are MANY other less forgiving examples. I did not wittness V12's accident but it sounds like the release occured early in the sequence if the excursion was upright and only 30 degrees off center. If release is delayed they stray farther off centerline, pitch up, bounce, cartwheel, and end up inverted. I have three friends who've taken this ride now.

Doug

[2G]

On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 11:15:14 AM UTC-7, Dgtarmichael wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:43:48 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 11:37:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > Hey Erik,
> > >
> > > You posted on RAS rather than the club group as you probably intended..
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > > Daniel
> > So I did. Still applies.
> Whenever I someone states or writes, "release immediately if you drop a wing." I cringe.
> This is well intentioned but bad advise. If your wing touches the ground, the horses have already fled the barn! You must release before the wing touches the ground as a best practice because, while some types will let you get away with it under some conditions there are MANY other less forgiving examples. I did not wittness V12's accident but it sounds like the release occured early in the sequence if the excursion was upright and only 30 degrees off center. If release is delayed they stray farther off centerline, pitch up, bounce, cartwheel, and end up inverted. I have three friends who've taken this ride now.
>
> Doug

WTF? So WHAT are you supposed to do when the wing hits the ground and you're still connected, hold on and hope for the best? OF COURSE you release!! Truth is the wing will drop faster than you can recognize it and pull the release - been there, done that. In any event, the wing was going to drop for reasons out of the pilot's control and he already had energy that had to be dissipated due to the speed he was going. The other pilot's blatant violation of the safety rules is what really caused this accident.

Tom

[George Haeh]

I was once launching in a good crosswind with a line of gliders alongside (the plan was to change runways after my launch). I had the towpilot taxi us forward until past the gliders before launch. Then learned that in a crosswind the towplane should be positioned upwind of the glider. Once the towplane gets downwind of the glider, the towpilot won't have enough rudder to stay out of the boonies.

[[email protected]]

Well said but there could also be other extenuating circumstances. For example, when I run a wing I actually run and I pay more attention when it is a c of g hook. Too often I see wing “runners” take a couple of steps and let go or worse, are so slow they end up holding the wing back.. Everyone plays a part in a safe launch and as we have seen time and time again, it is usually more than one factor that results in the accident.

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 2:26:10 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 11:15:14 AM UTC-7, Dgtarmichael wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 10:43:48 AM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 17, 2021 at 11:37:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> > > > Hey Erik,
> > > >
> > > > You posted on RAS rather than the club group as you probably intended.
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > > Daniel
> > > So I did. Still applies.
> > Whenever I someone states or writes, "release immediately if you drop a wing." I cringe.
> > This is well intentioned but bad advise. If your wing touches the ground, the horses have already fled the barn! You must release before the wing touches the ground as a best practice because, while some types will let you get away with it under some conditions there are MANY other less forgiving examples. I did not wittness V12's accident but it sounds like the release occured early in the sequence if the excursion was upright and only 30 degrees off center. If release is delayed they stray farther off centerline, pitch up, bounce, cartwheel, and end up inverted. I have three friends who've taken this ride now.
> >
> > Doug
> WTF? So WHAT are you supposed to do when the wing hits the ground and you're still connected, hold on and hope for the best? OF COURSE you release!! Truth is the wing will drop faster than you can recognize it and pull the release - been there, done that. In any event, the wing was going to drop for reasons out of the pilot's control and he already had energy that had to be dissipated due to the speed he was going. The other pilot's blatant violation of the safety rules is what really caused this accident.
>
> Tom

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:25:57 -0700, wrote:

> Too often I see wing “runners” take a couple of
> steps and let go or worse, are so slow they end up holding the wing
> back.
>
Rules:

1) ALWAYS hold the wing you're running with at the trailing edge AND
balance the aircraft so there's no up or down force on the tip you're
holding, which should be the downwind wing. Yes, this does mean that the
upwind wing will be lower than the one you're holding, but that's OK: if
you're not countering and up or down force the wing won't drop
immediately you let go of it.

2) Refuse the launch if the runner has their hand round the LE: thats jus
another acxcident waiting to happen.

We use these rules for both winch and aero-tow launches.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org