Revolutionary new plane

[kinsell]

https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/

You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.

Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:08:43 -0600, kinsell wrote:

> https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/
>
> You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.
>
> Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.

Nice one, whoever drew it. About as aerodynamic as a brick.



--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[andy l]

On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 11:44:46 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:08:43 -0600, kinsell wrote:
>
> > https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/
> >
> > You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.
> >
> > Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.
> Nice one, whoever drew it. About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>
>
>
> --
> Martin | martin at
> Gregorie | gregorie dot org

About a week too early for April Fool's Day

It reminded me very slightly of the Caspian Sea Monster, but those used to fly lower

[kinsell]

On 3/25/21 6:06 AM, andy l wrote:
> On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 11:44:46 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:08:43 -0600, kinsell wrote:
>>
>>> https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/
>>>
>>> You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.
>>>
>>> Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.
>> Nice one, whoever drew it. About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Martin | martin at
>> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>
> About a week too early for April Fool's Day
>
> It reminded me very slightly of the Caspian Sea Monster, but those used to fly lower
>
Strange website, sometimes it plays an animation, sometimes not. But
it's absolutely no joke, already a real design. First flight 2022, EASA
certification expected 2023!

Don't know about other people, but Google loves to push unsolicited
articles like this to my phone. Here's another doozey they featured:

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/this-three-wing-aircraft-concept-could-lower-co2-emissions-by-80-per-cent/

One piece molded construction, with patent pending technology. 10560
mile range. Wonder if that's with gear up or gear down?

[Mark Mocho]

About as aerodynamic as a brick.

No, it's about as aerodynamic as four bricks.

2,000 passengers? Following fixed routes where the track runs? Of course, all bridges, tunnels and power lines will have to be removed. No problem, apparently.

And if you wonder about the legalization of marijuana, this is a great example of all the "neat ideas" we are going to see. I think we're already seeing the results from repealing the Laws of Physics.

[Richard Livingston]

Both of those "concepts" show complete ignorance of aerodynamics. Reminds me of my
grandmother who wanted to tell the pilot to fly low and slow, for safety. There are very good
reasons modern aircraft are all mono-planes turbofans that fly at very high altitudes. They are both
more energy efficient and safer. Why would anyone want an airplane that has to follow a track?

Rich L.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Mark Mocho wrote on 3/25/2021 7:27 AM:
> About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>
> No, it's about as aerodynamic as four bricks.
>
> 2,000 passengers? Following fixed routes where the track runs? Of course, all bridges, tunnels and power lines will have to be removed. No problem, apparently.
>
> And if you wonder about the legalization of marijuana, this is a great example of all the "neat ideas" we are going to see. I think we're already seeing the results from repealing the Laws of Physics.
>
The concept came from a Russian design firm, so I doubt legal marijuana was involved :^)

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:11:09 -0700, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> Mark Mocho wrote on 3/25/2021 7:27 AM:
>> About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>>
>> No, it's about as aerodynamic as four bricks.
>>
>> 2,000 passengers? Following fixed routes where the track runs? Of
>> course, all bridges, tunnels and power lines will have to be removed.
>> No problem, apparently.
>>
>> And if you wonder about the legalization of marijuana, this is a great
>> example of all the "neat ideas" we are going to see. I think we're
>> already seeing the results from repealing the Laws of Physics.
>>
> The concept came from a Russian design firm, so I doubt legal marijuana
> was involved :^)

That explains it: vodka was involved (been there, done that with Russian
and Ukrainian friends).




--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Marotta]

Is that cardboard or Styrofoam?Â* Looks like a toy for a 3-year-old.Â* Or
a glider pilot...

*Dan 5J *
On 3/24/21 8:08 PM, kinsell wrote:
> https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/
>
> You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.
>
> Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.

[Dan Marotta]

Doesn't surprise me that Google would be pushing such a cockamamie
scheme.Â* Flying next year and certified a year after that?Â* Have they
already forgotten about their grand schemes at Moriarty?

Dan 5J
On 3/25/21 7:21 AM, kinsell wrote:
> On 3/25/21 6:06 AM, andy l wrote:
>> On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 11:44:46 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:08:43 -0600, kinsell wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/
>>>>
>>>> You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.
>>> Nice one, whoever drew it. About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Martin | martin at
>>> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>>
>> About a week too early for April Fool's Day
>>
>> It reminded me very slightly of the Caspian Sea Monster, but those
>> used to fly lower
>>
> Strange website, sometimes it plays an animation, sometimes not. But
> it's absolutely no joke, already a real design.Â* First flight 2022,
> EASA certification expected 2023!
>
> Don't know about other people, but Google loves to push unsolicited
> articles like this to my phone.Â* Here's another doozey they featured:
>
> https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/this-three-wing-aircraft-concept-could-lower-co2-emissions-by-80-per-cent/
>
>
> One piece molded construction, with patent pending technology. 10560
> mile range.Â* WonderÂ* if that's with gear up or gear down?

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 05:06:49 -0700, andy l wrote:

> On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 11:44:46 UTC, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:08:43 -0600, kinsell wrote:
>>
>> > https://mashable.com/video/train-plane-hybrid/
>> >
>> > You gotta admit, it's better than the electric train pulling a blimp.
>> >
>> > Maybe with a longer extension cord, electric gliders could work.
>> Nice one, whoever drew it. About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>
> About a week too early for April Fool's Day
>
> It reminded me very slightly of the Caspian Sea Monster, but those used
> to fly lower

Some ekranoplanes were strictly ground effect, while others, like the
A-90 Orlyonok (the one with a huge turboprop unit on the top of its
tailfin) apparently had a maximum operating altitude of 9,800 ft., a
range of 930miles and max speed of 220 kts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-90_Orlyonok


But, that electric thing reminds me more of a modern version of the
Caproni Ca.60 - prewar the flying boat thing with three triplane wing
stacks stacks attached to what looks like an up-market canal-boat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caproni_Ca.60


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Marotta]

Same outfit that came up with the ecranoplan? Reminds me of the old
saw:Â* Just because you /_can_/ do something doesn't mean that you
/_should_/.

Dan 5J
On 3/25/21 9:11 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> The concept came from a Russian design firm, so I doubt legal
> marijuana was involved :^)

[kinsell]

On 3/25/21 8:28 AM, Richard Livingston wrote:
> Both of those "concepts" show complete ignorance of aerodynamics. Reminds me of my
> grandmother who wanted to tell the pilot to fly low and slow, for safety. There are very good
> reasons modern aircraft are all mono-planes turbofans that fly at very high altitudes. They are both
> more energy efficient and safer. Why would anyone want an airplane that has to follow a track?
>
> Rich L.
>

I know these do indeed look like April Fools jokes, but who would have
ever guessed that Caproni would build a nine-wing seaplane airliner
meant to cross the Atlantic with only eight refueling stops? They
actually made one and a half test flights with that thing.

Here's a more detailed article on the three-wing job. Through the
miracles of Photoshop, now they're flying with gear up:

https://paxex.aero/se-aeronautics-fever-dream/

This one has an actual author who is starting to apply a bit of critical
thinking. Sounds like they're serious about this thing, fishing around
for $40-50 million in seed money, then angling for the ever popular
reverse acquisition with a Special Purpose Acquisition Company to get
the billions they'll need. If they actually do go public, a day one
naked short sounds like a good bet to me. First flight in three years,
you betcha.

Interesting that the one shot molding process forces a few compromises,
like no windows. Does that include the cockpit too?

Seriously, am I the only one with an Android phone that keeps getting
this crap fed to them? When they've got nothing new, they recycle old
articles like how the Alice in Wonderland plane was the star of the 2019
Paris airshow, or how Norway is charging full speed ahead with their
all-electric airplane program.

[Robert Hills]

Not totally on topic but interesting...

https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energy-storage-structural-battery-that-performs-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions/

Bob 7U

--
Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*********************DISCLAIMER****************** **
The
information contained in this e-mail message, and any attached file, may be
CONFIDENTIAL and is for the intended addressee only. Â*Distribution,
duplication, or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein
by any other person is not authorized. If you are not the intended
addressee, please notify the sender immediately and then delete and discard
all copies of the e-mail.

[Dan Marotta]

I don't get any of that stuff on my Android phone so I'd guess it's a
configuration issue.Â* I also don't get notifications and I don't get
awakened in the middle of the night (any more).Â* Go through all of the
setup options (my favorite is Quiet Time).

Dan 5J
On 3/25/21 10:24 AM, kinsell wrote:
> On 3/25/21 8:28 AM, Richard Livingston wrote:
>> Both of those "concepts" show complete ignorance of aerodynamics.Â*
>> Reminds me of my
>> grandmother who wanted to tell the pilot to fly low and slow, for
>> safety.Â* There are very good
>> reasons modern aircraft are all mono-planes turbofans that fly at
>> very high altitudes.Â* They are both
>> more energy efficient and safer.Â* Why would anyone want an airplane
>> that has to follow a track?
>>
>> Rich L.
>>
>
> I know these do indeed look like April Fools jokes, but who would have
> ever guessed that Caproni would build a nine-wing seaplane airliner
> meant to cross the Atlantic with only eight refueling stops?Â* They
> actually made one and a half test flights with that thing.
>
> Here's a more detailed article on the three-wing job.Â* Through the
> miracles of Photoshop, now they're flying with gear up:
>
> https://paxex.aero/se-aeronautics-fever-dream/
>
> This one has an actual author who is starting to apply a bit of
> critical thinking.Â* Sounds like they're serious about this thing,
> fishing around for $40-50 million in seed money, then angling for the
> ever popular reverse acquisition with a Special Purpose Acquisition
> Company to get the billions they'll need.Â* If they actually do go
> public, a day one naked short sounds like a good bet to me.Â* First
> flight in three years, you betcha.
>
> Interesting that the one shot molding process forces a few
> compromises, like no windows.Â* Does that include the cockpit too?
>
> Seriously, am I the only one with an Android phone that keeps getting
> this crap fed to them?Â* When they've got nothing new, they recycle old
> articles like how the Alice in Wonderland plane was the star of the
> 2019 Paris airshow, or how Norway is charging full speed ahead with
> their all-electric airplane program.

[andy l]

On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 16:26:38 UTC, Robert Hills wrote:
> Not totally on topic but interesting...
>
> https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energy-storage-structural-battery-that-performs-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions/
>

From the middle of that article, it might be 10 times the energy storage compared to previous development in thus field, but

"The battery has an energy density of 24 Wh/kg, meaning approximately 20 percent capacity compared to comparable lithium-ion batteries currently available. But since the weight of the vehicles can be greatly reduced, less energy will be required to drive an electric car, for example, and lower energy density also results in increased safety. "

Somehow I can't reconcile some basic arithmetic. How, for instance, would this work on a small two seater car with a body made of 100 kg of carbon fibre? How does it save quarter or half a ton of battery?

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

kinsell wrote on 3/25/2021 9:24 AM:
> On 3/25/21 8:28 AM, Richard Livingston wrote:
>> Both of those "concepts" show complete ignorance of aerodynamics.* Reminds me of my
>> grandmother who wanted to tell the pilot to fly low and slow, for safety.* There are very good
>> reasons modern aircraft are all mono-planes turbofans that fly at very high altitudes.* They
>> are both
>> more energy efficient and safer.* Why would anyone want an airplane that has to follow a track?
>>
>> Rich L.
>>
>
> I know these do indeed look like April Fools jokes, but who would have ever guessed that
> Caproni would build a nine-wing seaplane airliner meant to cross the Atlantic with only eight
> refueling stops?* They actually made one and a half test flights with that thing.
>
> Here's a more detailed article on the three-wing job.* Through the miracles of Photoshop, now
> they're flying with gear up:
>
> https://paxex.aero/se-aeronautics-fever-dream/
>
> This one has an actual author who is starting to apply a bit of critical thinking.* Sounds like
> they're serious about this thing, fishing around for $40-50 million in seed money, then angling
> for the ever popular reverse acquisition with a Special Purpose Acquisition Company to get the
> billions they'll need.* If they actually do go public, a day one naked short sounds like a good
> bet to me.* First flight in three years, you betcha.
>
> Interesting that the one shot molding process forces a few compromises, like no windows.* Does
> that include the cockpit too?
>
> Seriously, am I the only one with an Android phone that keeps getting this crap fed to them?
> When they've got nothing new, they recycle old articles like how the Alice in Wonderland plane
> was the star of the 2019 Paris airshow, or how Norway is charging full speed ahead with their
> all-electric airplane program.

The only mention I saw for windows was they are structurally inefficient, and all passengers
would get better outside views with cameras outside and video screens on the inside. I'm for
that, as airline windows are small, limited in viewing area, and often hazy.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Mark Mocho]

Andy's post about the carbon fiber "structural battery" is interesting. But I wonder what perils might arise from having the energy storage in the wings and/or body of the vehicle and getting into a crash. Do you get a bigger puff of smoke , a lovely thermal runaway and fire as a result of a fender bender?

[Muttley]

Not so new a concept, in Lithuania they are using a ground tow system to teach young kids to fly!

https://youtu.be/u4XfMHfIYSk

[Martin Gregorie[_6_]]

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:21:33 -0700, Mark Mocho wrote:

> Andy's post about the carbon fiber "structural battery" is interesting.
> But I wonder what perils might arise from having the energy storage in
> the wings and/or body of the vehicle and getting into a crash. Do you
> get a bigger puff of smoke , a lovely thermal runaway and fire as a
> result of a fender bender?

Two things the ocurred to me:

- if the battery is (part of) the structure, how easy it it to replace
and the bit of the structure storing energy when it gets old or fails?

- AFAIK the amount of energy stored in a battery depends on the amount,
and hence mass, of active material in the battery so, a thin carbon
shell and a lithium-coated piece of aluminium foil may make a strong,
light structure, but how much energy does it hold when fully charged
and how much does the thing weigh when you've packed enough of these
together to store the amount of energy your device requires. I can
maybe see this working if its the shell of a mobile phone, but if its
a car's body structure, or aircraft fuselage?


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Moshe Braner]

On 3/25/2021 12:55 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> kinsell wrote on 3/25/2021 9:24 AM:
>> On 3/25/21 8:28 AM, Richard Livingston wrote:
>>> Both of those "concepts" show complete ignorance of aerodynamics.
>>> Reminds me of my
>>> grandmother who wanted to tell the pilot to fly low and slow, for
>>> safety.Â* There are very good
>>> reasons modern aircraft are all mono-planes turbofans that fly at
>>> very high altitudes.Â* They are both
>>> more energy efficient and safer.Â* Why would anyone want an airplane
>>> that has to follow a track?
>>>
>>> Rich L.
>>>
>>
>> I know these do indeed look like April Fools jokes, but who would have
>> ever guessed that Caproni would build a nine-wing seaplane airliner
>> meant to cross the Atlantic with only eight refueling stops?Â* They
>> actually made one and a half test flights with that thing.
>>
>> Here's a more detailed article on the three-wing job.Â* Through the
>> miracles of Photoshop, now they're flying with gear up:
>>
>> https://paxex.aero/se-aeronautics-fever-dream/
>>
>> This one has an actual author who is starting to apply a bit of
>> critical thinking.Â* Sounds like they're serious about this thing,
>> fishing around for $40-50 million in seed money, then angling for the
>> ever popular reverse acquisition with a Special Purpose Acquisition
>> Company to get the billions they'll need.Â* If they actually do go
>> public, a day one naked short sounds like a good bet to me.Â* First
>> flight in three years, you betcha.
>>
>> Interesting that the one shot molding process forces a few
>> compromises, like no windows.Â* Does that include the cockpit too?
>>
>> Seriously, am I the only one with an Android phone that keeps getting
>> this crap fed to them? When they've got nothing new, they recycle old
>> articles like how the Alice in Wonderland plane was the star of the
>> 2019 Paris airshow, or how Norway is charging full speed ahead with
>> their all-electric airplane program.
>
> The only mention I saw for windows was they are structurally
> inefficient, and all passengers would get better outside views with
> cameras outside and video screens on the inside. I'm for that, as
> airline windows are small, limited in viewing area, and often hazy.

Or they can just stay home and watch the world on TV. Much cheaper and
saves the emissions. If they really want the full experience, they can
be served airline-type food while on the ground, as I gather some people
in some countries actually paid for during the pandemic.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

AS wrote on 3/25/2021 6:05 PM:
>
>> Dan, why are you yelling at me with that massive font? What did I ever do to you?
>> Herb
>
> Dan - your font comes through at least twice the size than everybody's else' font.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
>
Dan is always the same size as everyone else on my computer. But maybe that's because my Usenet
server uses text only, no html. Are you reading RAS on Google?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[AS]

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:52:52 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> AS wrote on 3/25/2021 6:05 PM:
> >
> >> Dan, why are you yelling at me with that massive font? What did I ever do to you?
> >> Herb
> >
> > Dan - your font comes through at least twice the size than everybody's else' font.
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
> >
> Dan is always the same size as everyone else on my computer. But maybe that's because my Usenet
> server uses text only, no html. Are you reading RAS on Google?
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

Yes, I am using Google and Chrome as the browser.

Uli
'AS'

[kinsell]

On 3/25/21 9:10 PM, AS wrote:
> On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:52:52 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> AS wrote on 3/25/2021 6:05 PM:
>>>
>>>> Dan, why are you yelling at me with that massive font? What did I ever do to you?
>>>> Herb
>>>
>>> Dan - your font comes through at least twice the size than everybody's else' font.
>>se
>>> Uli
>>> 'AS'
>>>
>> Dan is always the same size as everyone else on my computer. But maybe that's because my Usenet
>> server uses text only, no html. Are you reading RAS on Google?
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
>> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>
> Yes, I am using Google and Chrome as the browser.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
>

I use eternal-september as the server, with Thunderbird as the client.
I received it as both plain text and html in a multi-part message, and
yes there was some large text displayed.

[Mark Mocho]

Dan comes across with a similar verbal font in person.

[Herbert kilian]

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 10:34:17 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> Dan comes across with a similar verbal font in person.
Funny

[Edi Perfecto]

Dňa Å¡tvrtok 25. marca 2021 oÂ*16:11:13 UTC+1 použÃ*vateľ Eric Greenwell napÃ*sal:
> Mark Mocho wrote on 3/25/2021 7:27 AM:
> > About as aerodynamic as a brick.
> >
> > No, it's about as aerodynamic as four bricks.
> >
> > 2,000 passengers? Following fixed routes where the track runs? Of course, all bridges, tunnels and power lines will have to be removed. No problem, apparently.
> >
> > And if you wonder about the legalization of marijuana, this is a great example of all the "neat ideas" we are going to see. I think we're already seeing the results from repealing the Laws of Physics.
> >
> The concept came from a Russian design firm, so I doubt legal marijuana was involved :^)
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
> - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
must have been lot of vodka then..

[kinsell]

On 3/25/21 9:29 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:11:09 -0700, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>> Mark Mocho wrote on 3/25/2021 7:27 AM:
>>> About as aerodynamic as a brick.
>>>
>>> No, it's about as aerodynamic as four bricks.
>>>
>>> 2,000 passengers? Following fixed routes where the track runs? Of
>>> course, all bridges, tunnels and power lines will have to be removed.
>>> No problem, apparently.
>>>
>>> And if you wonder about the legalization of marijuana, this is a great
>>> example of all the "neat ideas" we are going to see. I think we're
>>> already seeing the results from repealing the Laws of Physics.
>>>
>> The concept came from a Russian design firm, so I doubt legal marijuana
>> was involved :^)
>
> That explains it: vodka was involved (been there, done that with Russian
> and Ukrainian friends).
>
>

Hopefully not both at the same time.

That Alice electro-thingy was named by the company's founders after a
night of hard drinking in a hangar, while blasting out some Jefferson
Airplane (ironic isn't it?). Some white rabbits and a ten foot tall
Alice were involved.

[Dan Marotta]

😂

Thanks Mark.

I only use html so that I can occasionally _underline_ or /italicize/
things.Â* I didn't realize it would hurt anyone's feelings...Â* The font
showing on my Thunderbird reply is tiny.

Dan 5J
On 3/25/21 9:34 PM, Mark Mocho wrote:
> Dan comes across with a similar verbal font in person.