Do Purist Exhibit Higher Testosterone Levels ?

[[email protected]]

One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.

[Hank Nixon]

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:01:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.

I don't think so. One of the highest apparent testosterone levels on RAS belongs to a motor glider pilot.
UH

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:19:27 PM UTC-4, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:01:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.
> I don't think so. One of the highest apparent testosterone levels on RAS belongs to a motor glider pilot.
> UH
UH, do you feel ok?

[Mike Carris[_2_]]

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 3:01:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phsycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.

Motorglider pilots have more than a sufficient amount required for rational thought, but perhaps less than some silly mucho macho purests. Motorglider pilots brains may not be so clouded with excess mind fogging hormones, and as a result, they think more rationally about the advantage of a built in launch and or retrieve system if needed. ;^)

Chuckle...

Mike

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:28:33 PM UTC-4, Mike Carris wrote:
> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 3:01:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phsycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.
>
> Motorglider pilots have more than a sufficient amount required for rational thought, but perhaps less than some silly mucho macho purests. Motorglider pilots brains may not be so clouded with excess mind fogging hormones, and as a result, they think more rationally about the advantage of a built in launch and or retrieve system if needed. ;^)
>
> Chuckle...
>
> Mike
Mike , you are heading up to the top of the class, great reply, but there is no rational thought involved in pushing the start button. Mike, I can help you in this situation, there is no substitute for testosterone when flying as a purist, we do not have that ability to light it up and go home to mama. Mike, I am an old man, but please spare me with the motorglider endorsement.

[Tom BravoMike]

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 4:01:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.

A good question, and the timing is good, too. I know the discussion will go on and on with same points (and denials) being brought up again and again.... but watch (full) and pay attention what the guy says at 26:36 in this newly posted video:

https://youtu.be/hYXeMpQB2l0

[andy l]

On Friday, 9 April 2021 at 22:59:23 UTC+1, Tom BravoMike wrote:S
> A good question, and the timing is good, too. I know the discussion will go on and on with same points (and denials) being brought up again and again...

Why? Mostly it's just a method of launch, a small fraction of most flights, and occasionally a method of retrieve. A minority of people are miltantly for or against, and probably most just don't have strong opinions either way

[Dan Marotta]

No, bob. It's credit score and bank balance. The same things that
attract hot chicks to rich guys attract them to motor gliders.

Dan
5J

On 4/9/21 3:01 PM, wrote:
> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.
>

[Dan Marotta]

Ah, Bob... Come to Moriarty and I'll show you how to fly a "real" motor
glider. You'll be so enthralled that you'll stock my hangar fridge with
the local brew for the duration of your stay.

Dan
5J

On 4/9/21 3:40 PM, wrote:
> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:28:33 PM UTC-4, Mike Carris wrote:
>> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 3:01:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
>>> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phsycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.
>>
>> Motorglider pilots have more than a sufficient amount required for rational thought, but perhaps less than some silly mucho macho purests. Motorglider pilots brains may not be so clouded with excess mind fogging hormones, and as a result, they think more rationally about the advantage of a built in launch and or retrieve system if needed. ;^)
>>
>> Chuckle...
>>
>> Mike
> Mike , you are heading up to the top of the class, great reply, but there is no rational thought involved in pushing the start button. Mike, I can help you in this situation, there is no substitute for testosterone when flying as a purist, we do not have that ability to light it up and go home to mama. Mike, I am an old man, but please spare me with the motorglider endorsement.
>

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 4/9/2021 2:01 PM:
> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.
>
I think the most important factor in a pilot's choice of a powered/unpowered glider is money,
and the 2nd factor is launch availability. The 3rd most important factor might be where you
fly: landing out in Nevada can have consequences far more serious than landing out Florida, and
I suspect you find more pilots in motorgliders there for that reason. Another factor:having a
motor system technician within a day's drive is important to many pilots who can't do their own
work on it.

The purest "purist" I've ever known was Henry Combs. None of this wimpy return to home while
flying stuff for him: he flew straight out every Saturday during the season, depending on crew
crew to find him and get him home, most often from over 500km away from the start. I don't
think it was his mighty testosterone that enabled him to do this over 200 times, but his
pleasant demeanor that let him talk many dozens of friends and coworkers into crewing for him
over the decades. So, Bob, work on your demeanor, enlist a crew weekend after weekend, then vow
never to fly home again, and earn that "purist" title!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Mark Mocho]

For those who don't know who Henry Combs was, or of his amazing career:

Henry Combs (died May 28, 2016) was a structural engineer at Clarence Johnson's famed Skunk Works group of Lockheed Corporation. He was Deputy Project Manager on the Lockheed U-2 program, Head Structural Engineer on the SR-71 Blackbird, and later, Technical Director of the Skunk Works. While he is most known for his integral work on the U-2, the SR-71 and the F-117 Nighthawk, he also worked on the F-104, Lockheed Constellation, C-130 Hercules, XP-58 Chain Lightning, and Lockheed JetStar.

Combs is revered as the father of the titanium A-12 structure. According to Ben Rich in "Skunk Works", Combs was the "dean" of the eight man structures group and an "irascible genius". Combs spoke on the U-2's development at the CIA's "The CIA and the U-2 Program" conference on 17 September 1998.

An accomplished glider pilot, Combs became famous within the soaring community for his weekly cross-country distance flights. Owing to the notable success of these flights, he became the leader of a fiercely loyal group of competition and cross-country sailplane pilots known as the "Crystal Squadron", based at Crystalaire gliderport in Llano, CA. From the mid 1980s through the early 2000s, this group of pilots, under Combs' spiritual and technical leadership, flew hundreds of long-distance soaring flights from Southern California to Nevada, Utah, and Arizona. In 1998, he completed his 200th straight-out long-distance flight meeting or exceeding the FAI "Diamond Badge" distance of 311 miles (500 km).

In addition to his long-distance flights, he was well known for his extensive modifications and performance tuning work on the classic Glasflugel H-301 Libelle sailplane. Because of the numerous aerodynamic improvements made by Combs to his aircraft, it was capable of achieving performance levels on a par with more modern aircraft flown by the other members of the group. The net effect of these expert aircraft modifications, combined with his excellent piloting skills, was that (to their amazement and chagrin) Combs was often able to fly farther and faster than the other members of the Crystal Squadron, many of whom had spent three or four times the money on far newer "state of the art" sailplanes. This served only to further perpetuate the "irascible genius" legend, long after his Skunk Works days had passed. His soaring legacy is honored by the Soaring Society of America's "Henry Combs Perpetual Trophy".

Combs died on May 28, 2016, at the age of 99.

[Nicholas Kennedy]

Yea Mike Mike
Great synopsis on Mr Combs History!
What a Leader in XC exploration and possibility.
I think Mr Youngblood is once again trolling for confrontation among SP pilots.
That's pathetic in this day and place in time, IMHO.
Nick
T

[3C]

Eric and Mark,
Thanks for drifting this thread from goofy humor to interesting soaring history. RAS needs more thread evolution like this.
Well done!
C.

[Guy Acheson[_2_]]

There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine.
Completely different world view.
Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather.
Not on the same planet.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 9:37:23 PM UTC-4, Mark Mocho wrote:
> For those who don't know who Henry Combs was, or of his amazing career:
>
> Henry Combs (died May 28, 2016) was a structural engineer at Clarence Johnson's famed Skunk Works group of Lockheed Corporation. He was Deputy Project Manager on the Lockheed U-2 program, Head Structural Engineer on the SR-71 Blackbird, and later, Technical Director of the Skunk Works. While he is most known for his integral work on the U-2, the SR-71 and the F-117 Nighthawk, he also worked on the F-104, Lockheed Constellation, C-130 Hercules, XP-58 Chain Lightning, and Lockheed JetStar.
>
> Combs is revered as the father of the titanium A-12 structure. According to Ben Rich in "Skunk Works", Combs was the "dean" of the eight man structures group and an "irascible genius". Combs spoke on the U-2's development at the CIA's "The CIA and the U-2 Program" conference on 17 September 1998.
>
> An accomplished glider pilot, Combs became famous within the soaring community for his weekly cross-country distance flights. Owing to the notable success of these flights, he became the leader of a fiercely loyal group of competition and cross-country sailplane pilots known as the "Crystal Squadron", based at Crystalaire gliderport in Llano, CA. From the mid 1980s through the early 2000s, this group of pilots, under Combs' spiritual and technical leadership, flew hundreds of long-distance soaring flights from Southern California to Nevada, Utah, and Arizona. In 1998, he completed his 200th straight-out long-distance flight meeting or exceeding the FAI "Diamond Badge" distance of 311 miles (500 km).
>
> In addition to his long-distance flights, he was well known for his extensive modifications and performance tuning work on the classic Glasflugel H-301 Libelle sailplane. Because of the numerous aerodynamic improvements made by Combs to his aircraft, it was capable of achieving performance levels on a par with more modern aircraft flown by the other members of the group. The net effect of these expert aircraft modifications, combined with his excellent piloting skills, was that (to their amazement and chagrin) Combs was often able to fly farther and faster than the other members of the Crystal Squadron, many of whom had spent three or four times the money on far newer "state of the art" sailplanes. This served only to further perpetuate the "irascible genius" legend, long after his Skunk Works days had passed. His soaring legacy is honored by the Soaring Society of America's "Henry Combs Perpetual Trophy".
>
> Combs died on May 28, 2016, at the age of 99.

Thanks for that bit of wonderful history, we had our own pilot here in Florida that would often set out on flights that were challenging and impressive. Harry Senn, a well known glider pilot and meteorologist would set out on flights over the Everglades . Some of us old guys had the opportunity to fly with Harry or crew for his straight out flights.
Harry was well known for his weather forecasting and would always offer weather advice for us guys at the gliderport. Being a forecaster for the National Hurricane Center provided Harry with weather information that became useful to glider pilots from around the country. Being a world class weather forecaster worked to many our our advantages on flights out of Miami, Harry was always interested in flights that were associated with unusual weather patterns. His assistance and interest in a flight that my friend Benny Flowers and I made out of Miami back in 1983. Harry and Dr. Gil Clark provided me with satellite photos and surface analysis information for my flight documentation.
Harry did his remarkable flights not in a fancy modern ship, but in his beloved 1-26. Yes, Harry was a purist, would often fly his 1-26 with the sport canopy and carry a few balloons and a roll of toilet paper on his flights. The balloons were used to mark thermals, as he would inflate them and toss out in thermals so he could study the strength and location. The toilet paper was not used for his after off field landings, but rather to also mark the thermals as he was flying. You could often see long streams of toilet paper and know that Harry had been there first.
Eric, to your surprise I have flown a motorglider, probably long before many ever knew there was such thing as a motorglider. I have made a promise to myself that there are two things that I will never do again. The number one thing that I will never do again is drink Tequila, the second thing that I will never do again is fly one of those damn motorgliders! Although, the SSA should have an award for the longest flight in a motorglider, they could call it the "Two Cycle Trophy".
So, I guess i better get rolling, lots of work to do today, I must get the speed sprayer going for an application of fungicide on the mango trees.

[RR]

> One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.

I sailed a "pure" 30ft sailboat for 10 years. On and off the mooring, even on and off docks only under sail. Not once did I boast about it, or consider myself superior to "motorsailors". I just didn't have an auxiliary. It is a direct parralel. I kept the boat in a tidal river so some times I could not "launch" and needed to wait for wind and tides to be favorable. Some times I risked a late return or perhaps a retrieve. It did develop some good skills but none that couldn't be developed by simply not using an available auxiliary. Somthing I practiced in larger boats often. I find it interesting that you never hear this same discussion amongst sailors.

I flew a "pure" sailplane for 18years. Missed many a good day when I could not get a tow. Missed flying from sites that did not have tows (getting more and more). In retirement I traded up to a Ash-31. I miss the simplicity of my 304, but love the fact that my soaring commute is half what it was.. I have had great trips out west to wonderful locations that dont have towplanes. I fly it like a "pure" sailplane and only once have used its retreve capability.

I eventually added a 2hp honda to my etchells (sailboat) for all the same reasons. I can "launch" at will, and even retreve if nessasary. It cost money, added some complexity, increased maintenance, but did not increase criticism from my fellow sailors. More the opposite, what took you so long....

[jfitch]

"there is no rational thought involved in pushing the start button"
Never flown a motorglider, eh?

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 2:40:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 5:28:33 PM UTC-4, Mike Carris wrote:
> > On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 3:01:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > One of the many questions that most of us purist ask examines the phsycological and psychical differences in individuals that fly Motorgliders vs purist. I do think that the motorglider fliers should certainly be considered for a much different score system compared to the true real purist. So, would testosterone levels or lack of those levels have a contribution to the number of motorglider sailplane pilots.
> >
> > Motorglider pilots have more than a sufficient amount required for rational thought, but perhaps less than some silly mucho macho purests. Motorglider pilots brains may not be so clouded with excess mind fogging hormones, and as a result, they think more rationally about the advantage of a built in launch and or retrieve system if needed. ;^)
> >
> > Chuckle...
> >
> > Mike
> Mike , you are heading up to the top of the class, great reply, but there is no rational thought involved in pushing the start button. Mike, I can help you in this situation, there is no substitute for testosterone when flying as a purist, we do not have that ability to light it up and go home to mama. Mike, I am an old man, but please spare me with the motorglider endorsement.

[Mark Mocho]

"... but there is no rational thought involved in pushing the start button."

There is, however, a certain amount of praying.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original
conversation starter.
-----------------------------------------

Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM:

> There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine.

We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy.

> Completely different world view.

Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots.

> Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather.

See above.

> Not on the same planet.

All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched
to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage
taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you
seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great
crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous
than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in
the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors.

My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more
available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were
"purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Goofed the first time, but now the new thread is started. Please use that one, so all the
replies stay together.

Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 2:37 PM:
> I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original
> conversation starter.
> -----------------------------------------

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Gregg Ballou[_2_]]

The role of T in life is more complicated than popular cultures masculinity bashing lets on.
'We find that winners of chess tournaments show higher T levels than do losers.'
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2786687?seq=1
The motor/non motor fancy plastic glider divide is not divided enough the real question is: Do 1-26 pilots have the highest tea of all?

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:08:16 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> The role of T in life is more complicated than popular cultures masculinity bashing lets on.
> 'We find that winners of chess tournaments show higher T levels than do losers.'
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/2786687?seq=1
> The motor/non motor fancy plastic glider divide is not divided enough the real question is: Do 1-26 pilots have the highest tea of all?

We do have at least one example of I'm better than you syndrome for the "purists". I always wondered about the guys that had to brag about how manly they are.
If you are a true purist don't use a motor (foot ,gravity, or shock cord only) to launch or retrieve. If a motor is involved you are no purist. When I spent 20 years foot launching I still had a motor to take me to the spot I could be pure and fly off the hill.

[Gregg Ballou[_2_]]

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 10:19:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:08:16 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> > The role of T in life is more complicated than popular cultures masculinity bashing lets on.
> > 'We find that winners of chess tournaments show higher T levels than do losers.'
> > https://www.jstor.org/stable/2786687?seq=1
> > The motor/non motor fancy plastic glider divide is not divided enough the real question is: Do 1-26 pilots have the highest tea of all?
> We do have at least one example of I'm better than you syndrome for the "purists". I always wondered about the guys that had to brag about how manly they are.
> If you are a true purist don't use a motor (foot ,gravity, or shock cord only) to launch or retrieve. If a motor is involved you are no purist. When I spent 20 years foot launching I still had a motor to take me to the spot I could be pure and fly off the hill.
Paraglider pilots that don't own a car are the winners?

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 9:08:16 PM UTC-4, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> The role of T in life is more complicated than popular cultures masculinity bashing lets on.
> 'We find that winners of chess tournaments show higher T levels than do losers.'
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/2786687?seq=1
> The motor/non motor fancy plastic glider divide is not divided enough the real question is: Do 1-26 pilots have the highest tea of all?
Gregg, I will say that 1-26 pilots in general have higher levels of tea than motorglider drivers. I certainly have strong opinions about motorglider drivers, several are friends of mine and I take shots at them all the time, they even laugh on the radio at Seminole Lakes Motor Glider Club when I call them on the freq and ask if anybody is flying their motorgliders out of Seminole. One guy responded on OLC and told me to get my butt out of that towplane and go fly gliders.