Practice stalls on your own?

[[email protected]]

Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
a private pilot.

Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
proficiency and for fun?

Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?

I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
of this topic.

Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

Thanks

[jsmith]

From a pilot: Why would you not practice stalls unless you are afraid
of them?
(If you are afraid of them, all the more reason to practice them.)
If you don't practice them and are afraid of them, how will you react
when you get into one "unexpectedly"?
If you practice them, you will understand how you can get into them and
respond appropriately in a timely manner.

wrote:
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

[Guillermo]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
Also from a pilot:
I don't see a problem practicing stalls at teh appropriate altitude, I used
to do that all the time after getting my license, showing them just for fun
to my friends.
Just watch out for your passengers, some of them may have problems with the
stalls. keep a barf bag handy just in case (own experience).
But also make sure that the weight loading of the airplane is not
unfavorable, and that intentional stalls are approved in the airplane you
are flying.

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.

What about commercial or ATP pilots? How about recreational or sport
pilots?

> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?

If you have some requirement to demonstrate stalls coming up, then I can see
a proficiency motivation. Other than that, I don't; generally, a stall is
something to avoid. I think it's more important to be proficient in
avoiding stalls, rather than in performing them. (I am, of course, assuming
normal every-day flying...for some kinds of flying, stalls are a critical
skill and should be second-nature).

If you want to do it for fun, I don't see anything wrong with that, though
of course you should only be practicing stalls solo when you have been
sufficiently trained in stalls in the aircraft you're flying. That should
be part of any new aircraft checkout anyway, so that requirement usually
would be met.

> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?

IMHO, if done safely there's nothing wrong with doing stalls for whatever
reason you like. Of course, in some airplanes stalls are inherently unsafe.
But that's not a common situation.

As far as proficiency goes, I think that slow flight is a MUCH more useful
thing to practice. It's good to know how to stall an airplane, and to know
how a given airplane will react in a stall. But being able to control the
airplane, even when the airspeed is just above stall speed, and avoid
getting into a stall in the first place, is a much more useful skill to
have.

All that said, if you are already well-practiced in avoiding stalls and have
some practice bandwidth left over, certainly there's no harm in getting good
at recovering from stalls as well. :)

Pete

[Guillermo]

Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:EAKke.1149$rr.123@fed1read01...
> I would never, never perform an intentional stall with a non-pilot
passenger
> on board.
>
> At the very least, you're scaring someone needlessly (and probably killing
> off any chance that they would want to get into flying...), at the very
> worst, you're inviting a struggle for the controls.
>
> Not too bright a thing to do, IMO.

I think it depends a lot in the passengers you have, and in how "much" you
stall the airplane. Some people are excited and thrilled by such a maneuver.
If I do a stall with a non-pilot I'd explain the maneuver in detail
beforehand and make sure that they perfectly understand what is going to
happen, and make sure that they are OK with it. It is something that they
are going to do often in their training anyways if they decide to be pilots.
By no means it is meant to scare anybody.
I have had passengers that after the explanation say that they don't want to
do it, so I won't do it, and other ones that says "YEA!! thats sounds fun,
lets do it!!!!", so then I'll go for it.
I wouldn't even think about doing it if the passenger doesn't want to.


guillermo


"Guillermo" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
> news:EAKke.1149$rr.123@fed1read01...
> > "Guillermo" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Also from a pilot:
>
> > I would never, never perform an intentional stall with a non-pilot
> passenger
> > on board.
> >
> > At the very least, you're scaring someone needlessly (and probably
killing
> > off any chance that they would want to get into flying...), at the very
> > worst, you're inviting a struggle for the controls.
> >
> > Not too bright a thing to do, IMO.
>
> I think it depends a lot in the passengers you have, and in how "much" you
> stall the airplane. Some people are excited and thrilled by such a
maneuver.
> If I do a stall with a non-pilot I'd explain the maneuver in detail
> beforehand and make sure that they perfectly understand what is going to
> happen, and make sure that they are OK with it. It is something that they
> are going to do often in their training anyways if they decide to be
pilots.
> By no means it is meant to scare anybody.
> I have had passengers that after the explanation say that they don't want
to
> do it, so I won't do it, and other ones that says "YEA!! thats sounds fun,
> lets do it!!!!", so then I'll go for it.
> I wouldn't even think about doing it if the passenger doesn't want to.
>
>
> guillermo
>
>

[Gary Drescher]

"Guillermo" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
> news:EAKke.1149$rr.123@fed1read01...
>> I would never, never perform an intentional stall with a non-pilot
> passenger on board.
>>
>> At the very least, you're scaring someone needlessly (and probably
>> killing
>> off any chance that they would want to get into flying...), at the very
>> worst, you're inviting a struggle for the controls.
>
> I think it depends a lot in the passengers you have

I agree. I've had an adventuresome non-pilot friend come along for a
checkout ride at a new FBO. I made sure he understood that stalls, steep
turns, etc. would be demonstrated.

--Gary

[Neil Gould]

Recently, > posted:

> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>
Also from a private pilot;

You are expected to be proficient in executing stalls, and will very
likely be reviewed on them during your BFRs. All the more reason to keep
them up to snuff.

Neil

[[email protected]]

Peter, all ratings appy. I just didn't feel the need to list every
single one.

All good comments everybody.

Any instructors out there want to chime in?

As for passengers, I agree with most of you, let them know what to
expect and give them the option. I would never do a stall unknowingly
to a passenger or a passenger who doesn't want to see one.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 24 May 2005 10:51:42 -0700, wrote:

>Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
>a private pilot.
>
>Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>proficiency and for fun?
>
>Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
>I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
>of this topic.
>
>Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>
>Thanks

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if you are somewhat apprehensive of
performing stalls. Once you have had sufficient training in this area,
that apprehension should be gone (if it is not, then you have not had
sufficient training).

If that is the case I would recommend intensive practice with a competent
instructor to the point where you lose your fear and no longer feel the
need to even ask this question.

Stalls are a fairly simple maneuver and should not present a cause for
concern.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Nick Funk]

Be careful doing stalls with passengers. Passengers in the rear seat
can throw the weight and balance too far aft for safe stalls.



wrote:
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>
> Thanks
>

[Mike W.]

Speaking for myself, 100% of me practices them on my own.

I think they are a great way to keep a good feel for how the plane handles
at high power/low speed, and how to react to a stall.

--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>
> Thanks
>

[[email protected]]

Ron: No fear of stalls here, I have done them myself and have even
taken a few hours of acrobatics including loops, rolls and spins.

I was just curious what the general outlook on doing them on purpose
was from the general pilot community and from the flight instructors on
here.

[James]

I got over my aversion to doing stalls by practising them by myself. I
gained a lot of confidence in doing them, and found it much easier than
with the instuctor yelling at me.

James.

wrote:

> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>
> Thanks
>

[Happy Dog]

"Mike W." > wrote in

> Speaking for myself, 100% of me practices them on my own.
>
> I think they are a great way to keep a good feel for how the plane handles
> at high power/low speed, and how to react to a stall.

Full power "falling leaf" stalls (in the right type of aircraft) are an
excellent maneuver to learn with an instructor experienced in them (like an
aerobatic instructor). They often result in an incipient spin (or worse)
and perfecting them should decrease your response time should a wing
inadvertently head for the ground. The correct rudder input should become
instinctive after a few sessions. In a situation, close to the ground,
where a wing drops unexpectedly, no rudder input wastes time, immediate
correct rudder input might make the good day difference. Immediate
incorrect rudder input will likely result in a spin with no room for
recovery. (And, yes, just like with the Audi debacle, people really do hit
the wrong pedal, sometimes. - OT, it's an embarrassing "secret" pretty much
universally acknowledged in auto racing.)

Get out in a cheap aerobatic plane like a Decath or Aerobat and spend an
hour pushing the limits of slow flight (as was previously recommended here).
Pretend you're buzizing friends at the lake or taking a video or somesuch.
Intentionally let yourself (or have the instructor) get into some classic
stall/spin situations. You'll have enough altitude to get out of anything.
But this bit of fun training will should improve your recovery time should
you be unlucky enough, or foolish enough, to get into a bad situation near
the ground.

le moo


>
> --
> Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict....
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
>> a private pilot.
>>
>> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>> proficiency and for fun?
>>
>> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>>
>> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
>> of this topic.
>>
>> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
>

[John Galban]

wrote:
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>

I'm a private pilot and I practice stalls and all of the other
manuevers in the PTS on a regular basis. As a student, I did the same
thing post solo.

Regularly practicing these kinds of manuevers keeps my skills sharp.
For the kind of flying I do, it's important to be comfortably in
control of the plane in the slow side of the envelope. I know of a
few pilots who only do an hour of manuevers every two years during a
BFR. Their flying tends to be a bit more sloppy than a newly minted
PPL.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 24 May 2005 16:28:14 -0700, wrote:

>Ron: No fear of stalls here, I have done them myself and have even
>taken a few hours of acrobatics including loops, rolls and spins.
>
>I was just curious what the general outlook on doing them on purpose
>was from the general pilot community and from the flight instructors on
>here.

Well, I, for one, don't see stalls as a big deal. I would not categorize
"practicing stalls" as any different from practicing steep turns, slow
flight, unusual attitude recovery, short field takeoffs and landings, soft
field takeoff and landings, or any of the other maneuvers that we
occasionally use.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Dave Stadt]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ron: No fear of stalls here, I have done them myself and have even
> taken a few hours of acrobatics including loops, rolls and spins.
>
> I was just curious what the general outlook on doing them on purpose
> was from the general pilot community and from the flight instructors on
> here.


Flight without an occasional stall or six, sucks. I have done them with
abandon starting soon as my instructor years ago gave me the go ahead.

[Roger]

On 24 May 2005 10:51:42 -0700, wrote:

>Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
>a private pilot.

When a student, I was encouraged to practice *all* the maneuvers we
had done so far. That meant post solo I went out and practiced,
approach, departure, and accelerated stalls repeatedly along with
steep turns (they were 60 degrees and 2 Gs back then) as well as
minimum controllable airspeed rather than slow flight.

>
>Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>proficiency and for fun?
>
Certainly and for both, IF your instructor believes you have the
capacity to do so.

>Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?

A pilot should never, ever give up practicing stalls. As soon as they
do their skill at recognizing and recovering starts down hill and that
is a skill they may need some day. Not all stalls are unavoidable
unless you stay on the ground. I've stalled the Deb in level flight
at 5500 and Va when I hit some un forecast, clear air turbulence.

>
>I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
>of this topic.
>
>Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

I still practice stalls with well over a 1000 hours. Actually I
practice all of the private and commercial maneuvers every few weeks.

Now the question comes up farther down the thread of doing stalls with
a passenger. Again, the answer depends on the passenger, but if they
want to, then certainly. That is far different than the "hey, look at
this" approach, or see what I can do. However if a passenger wants to
experience "maneuvers" we have a long talk about what and why we
practice those maneuvers, what happens, why it happens, and what has
to be done. Then I go over each maneuver before doing it, always
keeping an eye on their color (whether they are turning green in spite
of their enthusiasm).

I like to get them to take the controls and talk them through straight
and level as well as some gentle turns. Once they see how easy it can
be, most are hooked.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Thanks

[Roger]

On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:42:39 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
>> a private pilot.
>
>What about commercial or ATP pilots? How about recreational or sport
>pilots?
>
>> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>> proficiency and for fun?
>
>If you have some requirement to demonstrate stalls coming up, then I can see
>a proficiency motivation. Other than that, I don't; generally, a stall is
>something to avoid. I think it's more important to be proficient in
>avoiding stalls, rather than in performing them. (I am, of course, assuming

Never, ever make the mistake of thinking all stalls can be avoided.
They seldom happen, but they can and without the typical warning such
as clear air turbulence and wind shear. Both can hit without warning
and without being forecast. I've had three unintentional stalls in a
bit over 1300 hours.
One as a student in a 150 on final with an instructor along (un
forecast wind shear), one in a Cherokee 180 on final (again, wind
shear that was far beyond what was forecast) and once in the Deb in
level flight at 5500 just South of Toledo. I hit clear air
turbulence.

>normal every-day flying...for some kinds of flying, stalls are a critical
>skill and should be second-nature).

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Cub Driver]

On 24 May 2005 10:51:42 -0700, wrote:

>Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>proficiency and for fun?

Gosh, I think it's dumb not to!

The first thing I do when I have had a lay-off (which generally means
every March, except that this year the lay-off ended in April) is to
out over some scraggly fields a few miles west of the airport, climb
up to 4,000 ft, and do slow flight and power-off and power-on
(climbing) stalls.

Gives me a feel for the airplane. I would do the same every time I
found myself in a new (strange) airplane.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Dylan Smith]

In article . com>, wrote:
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?

Yes. No question about it.
(I practise spins for fun. Yes, I am in an aerobatic plane (a glider no
less) and I am wearing a parachute. It's important for me to be able to
recognise the onset of a stall/spin in a glider as in the weak
conditions we have here, to stay in a thermal you often have to fly at
the ragged edge of a stall in as tight as turn as you dare).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[[email protected]]

Actually, as a CFI I think it is unsafe to *not* practice stalls on
your own. If you understand what is happening during a stall, and have
been taught by an instructor who wasn't afraid of them (some are), then
there is absolutely nothing dangerous about doing them.

I've flown with private pilots who clearly have not practiced basic
maneuvers since their last BFR, if then. They are scared of stalls,
'slow flight' to them is 1.8 Vs0, a 'steep turn' is 20 degrees of bank.


To maintain my personal proficiency, I try to go up by myself at least
once a month, and just do 90 minutes of 'basics'. I advise my students
and BFR rides to do the same. Slow flight in particular is very useful
in increasing your 'feel' for the airplane. Go up, do some approach and
departure (power-off and power-on respectively) stalls. Do some steep
turns, and don't let yourself off the hook until everything you do is
at *least* PTS standard.

The only reason people avoid practicing stalls is because they fear
them. If you are properly trained, and perform them at a 'safe'
altitude above the ground, there is *nothing* to be fearful of. If you
fear stalls, then you need to have some work with a CFI whjo doesn't,
and who understands them and can teach them to you. You can see how
scaed many people are of stalls by watching your local pilots land; I
can't tell you how many pilots I see add an extra 10 knots down the
pipe 'just to be safe'. Works fine with a 172 on 5000 foot runway; but
it really isn't good airmanship.

Practicing the basics (including stalls) is a very good way to improve
one's skills. I can't advise strongly enough that it is a *very* good
idea to devote some time every month (depending on how often you fly)
to just going out and doing the stuff you did in your first 10 lessons
as a student.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris Schmelzer]

In article om>,
wrote:

> Actually, as a CFI I think it is unsafe to *not* practice stalls on
> your own. If you understand what is happening during a stall, and have
> been taught by an instructor who wasn't afraid of them (some are), then
> there is absolutely nothing dangerous about doing them.
>
> I've flown with private pilots who clearly have not practiced basic
> maneuvers since their last BFR, if then. They are scared of stalls,
> 'slow flight' to them is 1.8 Vs0, a 'steep turn' is 20 degrees of bank.
>
>
> To maintain my personal proficiency, I try to go up by myself at least
> once a month, and just do 90 minutes of 'basics'. I advise my students
> and BFR rides to do the same. Slow flight in particular is very useful
> in increasing your 'feel' for the airplane. Go up, do some approach and
> departure (power-off and power-on respectively) stalls. Do some steep
> turns, and don't let yourself off the hook until everything you do is
> at *least* PTS standard.
>
> The only reason people avoid practicing stalls is because they fear
> them. If you are properly trained, and perform them at a 'safe'
> altitude above the ground, there is *nothing* to be fearful of. If you
> fear stalls, then you need to have some work with a CFI whjo doesn't,
> and who understands them and can teach them to you. You can see how
> scaed many people are of stalls by watching your local pilots land; I
> can't tell you how many pilots I see add an extra 10 knots down the
> pipe 'just to be safe'. Works fine with a 172 on 5000 foot runway; but
> it really isn't good airmanship.
>
> Practicing the basics (including stalls) is a very good way to improve
> one's skills. I can't advise strongly enough that it is a *very* good
> idea to devote some time every month (depending on how often you fly)
> to just going out and doing the stuff you did in your first 10 lessons
> as a student.


Well said,
When I first started practicing stalls and slow flight on my own I was
scared! I had very good aircraft control, even at that point, but the
fear of a spin was always in the back of my head...

But guess what, I was trained well and every one looked good. Just like
my first long cross country was scary because suddenly I had to figure
flight following frequencies, communicate, navigate, enter the pattern
at an unfamiliar airport all on my own, but man did I learn a lot about
where I wasn't truly proficient and fixed those problems quick!



A little fear is good! It keeps you alert and non-complacent! I think
we should all be a little scared on every takeoff and approach to land
as well-it is a high risk part of the flight and that extra awareness
gives you an edge!

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

[George Patterson]

jsmith wrote:
> From a pilot: Why would you not practice stalls unless you are afraid
> of them?
> (If you are afraid of them, all the more reason to practice them.)
> If you don't practice them and are afraid of them, how will you react
> when you get into one "unexpectedly"?
> If you practice them, you will understand how you can get into them and
> respond appropriately in a timely manner.

And at that point, I know how one gets into a stall, I can avoid the stall, and
I don't need to practice them anymore.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[George Patterson]

wrote:
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

I used to practice "approach" stalls at least once a year. Of course, one of
those occassions would be the flight review every two years. I never practiced
departure stalls because it's extremely difficult (for me at least) to get a
lightly loaded Maule to stall at full power without running the risk of an
inadvertent "hammerhead" or tail slide. The CFIs from whom I took flight reviews
would also get uncomfortable with the deck angle when we tried it and we'd
usually wind up faking it by pulling the power a bit. That's even when I slowed
to near-stall speed in level flight before adding power and raising the nose.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

[Michael]

Good Landings are a result of expertise in slow flight and knowing
exactly where the stall begins...You pretty much need to have a good
feel for stalls to be proficient at short field landing and routing
full stall landings.
There is very good reason that demonstration of approach and departure
stalls are part of the BFR. They are critical maneuvers which are
intimately connected to the two most "dangerous" times in flying.
Yes, I do stalls all the time. Usually alone in the plane and never
below 3000 feet. I also learned to do them under the hood and I would
recommend that any IFR pilot get appropriate training in that maneuver.

[Blueskies]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message . ..
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Ron: No fear of stalls here, I have done them myself and have even
>> taken a few hours of acrobatics including loops, rolls and spins.
>>
>> I was just curious what the general outlook on doing them on purpose
>> was from the general pilot community and from the flight instructors on
>> here.
>
>
> Flight without an occasional stall or six, sucks. I have done them with
> abandon starting soon as my instructor years ago gave me the go ahead.
>
>


Slow flight right on the edge, maybe falling off every once and a while, is the best practice. Do it in the wind, do it
when it's rough, do it at night. Know it....

[Michael]

Many years ago, long before I ever thought about being a flight
instructor, I met a commercial instrument rated pilot who flew for CAP
and would not do stalls without an instructor. I thought this was
ridiculous then. I still think it's ridiculous. Sstalls performed
properly in an appropriate aiplane should present negligible additional
risk for the proficient pilot. However, proficiency isn't what it used
to be and I am beginning to see a risk to solo stalls that wasn't there
before.

Even a perfectly flown stall has the potential for spin entry (wing
drop) if exactly the wrong gust is encountered at exactly the wrong
time, and most of us can't fly a perfect stall every time - we are all
human and make mistakes. For a proficient pilot, a spin entry is not a
big deal in most airplanes. After all, it is only the entry, and most
normal category light airplanes easily recover from the entry. It's
only once the spin starts to wind up that it becomes an issue. Of
course there are airplanes where that's not true - but most of us are
not likely to fly one.

The issue is - will you recognize the spin entry for what it is and
react appropriately? If you have been trained in full stalls, spin
entries, spins, and spin recoveries, the answer is probably yes - but
these days, many people have not been.

In the glider world, it's different. Most privately owned gliders (and
even many of the rentals!) are single seat. It's not unusual to send a
student with less than 20 hours total time off in a single seater to
check himself out. Since you have to make the first landing count,
doing some stalls to 'feel out' the handling of the glider is not
optional. Because of this, spin recovery training for glider pilots is
essentially universal. No, the FAA doesn't require it - but glider
instructors tend to be rugged individualists who feel that they know
better than the FAA what is necessary - and they tend ot be right.

In the light airplane world, things are not so good. While the FAA
mandates spin training for airplane CFI's, spins are not generally
tested on the CFI ride. As a result, the training is often cursory -
as little as three spins of one turn or less each. That's barely
enough to start feeling comfortable with the recovery, and nowhere near
enough to teach. On top of that, many of today's popular trainers
can't be spun. Spin training for the private pilot is no longer the
rule but the exception. So we have lots of pilot out there whose
knowledge of spin entry and spin recovery is extremely limited.

I'm not going to say that those people should not practice stalls solo
- everyone has a right to choose his own level of risk. I will say
that I sure wouldn't go up in an airplane with one who did, unless I
had my own set of controls. I would also not permit solo stalls for a
student who hadn't spun. When students practice stalls they somewhat
routinely botch them, and that means they're putting themselves at risk
of a spin with enough altitude to recover. I consider a spin a presolo
maneuver and a prerequisite for solo stalls.

As for myself, I don't practice stalls - but when checking myself out
in a new airplane, I do prefer to stall it before I land it.

Michael

[Dudley Henriques]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
> a private pilot.
>
> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
> proficiency and for fun?
>
> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>
> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
> of this topic.
>
> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>
> Thanks

You can consider yourself safe to perform solo stalls if you have had proper
training in stalls not only entered from normally anticipated flight
attitudes but also from abnormal entries such as accelerated and crossed
controlled entries.
Competent instructors will make sure you have had this training. EXTREMELY
competent instructors will exceed the book requirement in stall training and
make sure you have had basic spin entry and recovery as well.
With this training in your tool kit, you should be perfectly safe in
practicing stalls solo.

Dudley Henriques

[PilotCFI]

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in
ink.net:

>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you
>> are a private pilot.
>>
>> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>> proficiency and for fun?
>>
>> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>>
>> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your
>> thinking of this topic.
>>
>> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> You can consider yourself safe to perform solo stalls if you have had
> proper training in stalls not only entered from normally anticipated
> flight attitudes but also from abnormal entries such as accelerated
> and crossed controlled entries.
> Competent instructors will make sure you have had this training.
> EXTREMELY competent instructors will exceed the book requirement in
> stall training and make sure you have had basic spin entry and
> recovery as well. With this training in your tool kit, you should be
> perfectly safe in practicing stalls solo.
>
> Dudley Henriques


I agree Dudley. My students get this kind of training. I would only
add that to stay safe, keep practicing and get at least an annual eval.
I know every two years is the requirement, but remember the requirments
are minimum standards.

Pilot/CFI/CFII

[Dudley Henriques]

"PilotCFI" > wrote in message
4...
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in
> ink.net:
>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you
>>> are a private pilot.
>>>
>>> Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>>> proficiency and for fun?
>>>
>>> Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?
>>>
>>> I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your
>>> thinking of this topic.
>>>
>>> Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>> You can consider yourself safe to perform solo stalls if you have had
>> proper training in stalls not only entered from normally anticipated
>> flight attitudes but also from abnormal entries such as accelerated
>> and crossed controlled entries.
>> Competent instructors will make sure you have had this training.
>> EXTREMELY competent instructors will exceed the book requirement in
>> stall training and make sure you have had basic spin entry and
>> recovery as well. With this training in your tool kit, you should be
>> perfectly safe in practicing stalls solo.
>>
>> Dudley Henriques
>
>
> I agree Dudley. My students get this kind of training. I would only
> add that to stay safe, keep practicing and get at least an annual eval.
> I know every two years is the requirement, but remember the requirments
> are minimum standards.
>
> Pilot/CFI/CFII

I'm a great fan of "practicing". I've always advocated to the pilots I've
trained, the adoption of what I call a "never ending training mode" that
treats every flight, no matter how trivial a flight, as a training flight
requiring a serious self appraisal, adjustment in technique, and/or
correction as an ongoing result.
This requires a professional approach to everyday flying that uses a highly
developed habit patterns where a pilot engages in a constant self evaluation
and correction pattern geared toward maximizing his/her performance on a
constant basis.
I like a habit pattern in a pilot that causes him/her to come off a
perfectly executed flight thinking about how he could have made it better.
:-)

Dudley Henriques

[Journeyman]

In article t>, Dudley Henriques wrote:

> I like a habit pattern in a pilot that causes him/her to come off a
> perfectly executed flight thinking about how he could have made it better.

Are you suggesting even a remote possibility of a perfectly executed
flight?

I think of it like a law of thermodynamics. You may in theory be
able to get close, but perfect ain't ever gonna happen.


Morris (figuring Dudley's already come closer than I ever will)

[Journeyman]

In article >, Journeyman wrote:
> In article t>, Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
>> I like a habit pattern in a pilot that causes him/her to come off a
>> perfectly executed flight thinking about how he could have made it better.
>
> Are you suggesting even a remote possibility of a perfectly executed
> flight?
>
> I think of it like a law of thermodynamics. You may in theory be
> able to get close, but perfect ain't ever gonna happen.

Hit send a moment before completing the thought. Of course, you'll
get closer if you're actually aiming for it.


Morris

[Dudley Henriques]

"Journeyman" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article t>, Dudley
> Henriques wrote:
>
>> I like a habit pattern in a pilot that causes him/her to come off a
>> perfectly executed flight thinking about how he could have made it
>> better.
>
> Are you suggesting even a remote possibility of a perfectly executed
> flight?
>
> I think of it like a law of thermodynamics. You may in theory be
> able to get close, but perfect ain't ever gonna happen.

No. I'm not suggesting that at all. A "perfectly executed flight" to a
pilot should be a relative term that applies to a flight executed
successfully with no specific issues and in no way implies a literal meaning
for the word "perfect".
You could, if you wanted to do so, make an argument for the literal meaning
of the word "perfect", but I believe it's fairly obvious what was meant
here, so why push for that?
Naturally no flight will literally be "perfect". That's the reason you
should, as I have already said, make a self evaluation after each flight
seeking ways to make the next flight better. If there was no better, there
would be no need for self evaluation.
Just to be clear I'll restate what I said so that there is no
misunderstanding as to what I am saying.
Although reaching "literal" perfection as a pilot might not be possible, a
pilot should never stop trying to reach perfection, and approach each and
every flight seeking this unattainable goal.
Dudley Henriques

[ls]

Cub Driver wrote:
> On 24 May 2005 10:51:42 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>>Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
>>proficiency and for fun?
>
>
> Gosh, I think it's dumb not to!
>
> The first thing I do when I have had a lay-off (which generally means
> every March, except that this year the lay-off ended in April) is to
> out over some scraggly fields a few miles west of the airport, climb
> up to 4,000 ft, and do slow flight and power-off and power-on
> (climbing) stalls.
>
> Gives me a feel for the airplane. I would do the same every time I
> found myself in a new (strange) airplane.

I've transitioned to several different aircraft types and in each case I
always went up and practiced stalls in the airplane ASAP after being
signed off for solo. I even did them in my weight-shift..

My current plane, a Kolb Firestar, has its own behavior that is
important for me to be familiar with. In particular, it is somewhat
easier than other planes I've flown to get into a secondary stall when
recoving from the first stall (power-off). The airspeed recovers nicely,
but the AOA can go again past critical easily without the right
technique, especially power off.....

So, in my small experience, regular practice with stalls is really
necessary for me to keep current with my airplane....

My next project in this plane is cross-controlled stalls, which I'll
probably start practicing this evening......

LS
N646F

>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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